many or few?

[Beetow]

• 1Cor 3:22-23 . . Everything belongs to you-- Paul and Apollos and Peter --the
whole world and life and death; the present and the future. Everything belongs to
you, and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.

People locked away in the fiery section of Hades may or may not be fully aware of
all they've lost. Many are doubtless aware of at least their loss of immortality; but
I'm not so sure they know about the bulk of their loss because not even that many
Christians are aware of all they've gained by their position in Christ.

1Cor 3:22-23 refers to Rom 8:17 where believers are depicted by a Greek word
that pertains to heirs in common, i.e. joint-heirs. Regular heirs each receive an
individually specified portion of a benefactor's estate whereas heirs in common each
take possession of the whole shebang, i.e. whatever the Father bequeathed His
son, He bequeathed everyone belonging to His son.

For example: supposing a benefactor's estate totals 60 acres of land plus $10,000
in a bank account, and he left it all to six heirs in common. In that situation; the
heirs are corporately one beneficiary instead of six; viz: all six inherit the 60 acres
and the $10k as if each one were the only heir.

The extent of Jesus' inheritance is astonishing. It encompasses not only all that is in
Heaven, but also whatever pertains to the new cosmos spoken of in Isa 66:17, 2Pet
3:13, and Rev 21:1; and I don't know what else.

• John 3:35 . .The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.

• John 16:15 . . All things that the Father has are mine

• Heb 2:5 . . It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come

Fortunately, Jesus has been appointed the estate's chief executive officer because I
don't think anybody else among men could ever be relied upon to manage it properly,

UPDATE: 231 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 14,350,644 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- you commented that those who are locked away in Hades forever may or mayNot be aware of all they've lost. The position in Christ that they never had. You're referring to their salvation or lack there of?

Well -- Isn't it at least part of our responsibility as born again believers To share the Gospel unto salvation to all who will listen? God's Word saves -- if it isn't shared -- it won't be Heard and responded to.

And -- as we learn in Luke regarding the rich man and Lazarus -- as soon as the rich man realized where he was and couldn't get out -- he begged for someone to go to his brothers to warn them of what They would be facing if they didn't repent / turn to Jesus Christ/ God. He was told that everyone has the witness of the prophets to listen to. Some will hear and accept and some will hear and reject. It will be that way until the end. But no one knows When their personal end will happen.

By the time a person finds themselves in hell -- maybe their spiritual eyes Will be opened -- but it will be too late.

It's Better to listen to God's Word Now -- either through the sharing of the Gospel by loved ones or co-workers, whomever. Because NOW is the time for our salvation -- no one knows what Tomorrow will bring.

 

[JerryfromMass]

@Beetow -- you commented that those who are locked away in Hades forever may or mayNot be aware of all they've lost. The position in Christ that they never had. You're referring to their salvation or lack there of?

Well -- Isn't it at least part of our responsibility as born again believers To share the Gospel unto salvation to all who will listen? God's Word saves -- if it isn't shared -- it won't be Heard and responded to.

And -- as we learn in Luke regarding the rich man and Lazarus -- as soon as the rich man realized where he was and couldn't get out -- he begged for someone to go to his brothers to warn them of what They would be facing if they didn't repent / turn to Jesus Christ/ God. He was told that everyone has the witness of the prophets to listen to. Some will hear and accept and some will hear and reject. It will be that way until the end. But no one knows When their personal end will happen.

By the time a person finds themselves in hell -- maybe their spiritual eyes Will be opened -- but it will be too late.

It's Better to listen to God's Word Now -- either through the sharing of the Gospel by loved ones or co-workers, whomever. Because NOW is the time for our salvation -- no one knows what Tomorrow will bring.

Amen and amen.

 

[Beetow]

Christ is often thought of as a pacifist. But the fact of the matter is, Christ and the
Old Testament's fearsome God are in total agreement.

• John 10:30 . . I and my Father are unified.

In other words; Christ would never disapprove of the Flood, nor of the incineration
of Sodom and Gomorrah. In point of fact, via the person of the Word of God
depicted in the opening verses of John's gospel; the gentle Jesus was involved in
those events, and only too happy to lend a hand.

• John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I
do always those things that please Him.

It sometimes puzzles me why Christ's enemies weren't more afraid of him because
when you think about it: if he could cure blindness, then he could just as easily
cause it, and if he could cure paralysis, then he could just as easily cause that too;
and if he could cure the deaf and the dumb, then he could just as easily take away
people's ability to speak and hear; and if he could cure leprosy, then he could just
as easily infect people with it.

And if he could multiply a little to feed thousands, then he could just as easily
thwart abundance to cause the starvation of millions; and if he could calm a storm,
then he could just as easily generate a hurricane; and if he could replace a severed
ear, then he could just as easily remove an ear; and if he could turn water into
wine, then he could just as easily turn water into acid; and if he could exorcise
demons, then he could just as easily muster demons for wide-spread possession.

The first time Christ came, he came as a victim; the next time he will come as a
conqueror. One day out ahead, the sweet little babe away in manger is taking the
reins of this planet, and his administration will be neither soft hearted nor soft
headed.

• Ps 2:9-12 . .You will rule them with an iron scepter; you will dash them to pieces
like pottery. Therefore, you kings, be wise; be warned, you rulers of the earth.
Serve The Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the son, lest he be angry
and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment.

UPDATE: 232 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 14,412,768 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[JerryfromMass]

Christ is often thought of as a pacifist. But the fact of the matter is, Christ and the
Old Testament's fearsome God are in total agreement.

• John 10:30 . . I and my Father are unified.

In other words; Christ would never disapprove of the Flood, nor of the incineration
of Sodom and Gomorrah. In point of fact, via the person of the Word of God
depicted in the opening verses of John's gospel; the gentle Jesus was involved in
those events, and only too happy to lend a hand.

• John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I
do always those things that please Him.

It sometimes puzzles me why Christ's enemies weren't more afraid of him because
when you think about it: if he could cure blindness, then he could just as easily
cause it, and if he could cure paralysis, then he could just as easily cause that too;
and if he could cure the deaf and the dumb, then he could just as easily take away
people's ability to speak and hear; and if he could cure leprosy, then he could just
as easily infect people with it.

And if he could multiply a little to feed thousands, then he could just as easily
thwart abundance to cause the starvation of millions; and if he could calm a storm,
then he could just as easily generate a hurricane; and if he could replace a severed
ear, then he could just as easily remove an ear; and if he could turn water into
wine, then he could just as easily turn water into acid; and if he could exorcise
demons, then he could just as easily muster demons for wide-spread possession.

The first time Christ came, he came as a victim; the next time he will come as a
conqueror. One day out ahead, the sweet little babe away in manger is taking the
reins of this planet, and his administration will be neither soft hearted nor soft
headed.

• Ps 2:9-12 . .You will rule them with an iron scepter; you will dash them to pieces
like pottery. Therefore, you kings, be wise; be warned, you rulers of the earth.
Serve The Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the son, lest he be angry
and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment.

UPDATE: 232 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 14,412,768 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

Amen. He came first as a suffering servant. He will come again to conquer, to rule and reign. Amen.

 

[Sue D.]

Beetow -- the Lord God was speaking / spoken of in the Old Testament.

Your way of talking about the Godhead puzzles me.

It's not the matter of Christ either approving Of or not approving Of the flood or anything that took place in the Old Testament. It's the Lord making the comments in Genesis regarding the flood and mankinds sinning. And then vs 12, it's God looking down on the earth seeing how corrupt it was. It was God giving Noah the directions for the ark.

The main role of Jesus Christ in the New Testament was to show them / us/ the Father. He came to die on the cross and then rise again the 3rd day.

The Romans wanted to Kill Jesus Christ.

And He was not an especially meek, mild-mannered person. After all -- he Did get mad enough at the people wanting to buy / sell things in the temple that He threw the table over. Righteous anger.

The miracles the Jesus Christ was performing were obviously Helping people. The only thing that made them mad was when Jesus Christ caste the demon out of the one girl so that she couldn't tell fortunes any longer. She'd been making money for them.

And Where do you get the idea that Jesus' birth was Him coming as a victim? They wanted Jesus Christ to come as King Jesus. To be their conquering hero 'then and there'. They didn't want Him as a baby. But that was God's plan from the beginning.

Why would you even Suggest that which you do -- the harm that He Could have done if He had wanted to. He's Not the cruel monster you're suggesting that He Could have been if He wanted to.

In the future -- Jesus Christ Will return and reign here on earth for 1,000 yrs. He will reign from Jerusalem -- a righteous leader, judge. There will be No evil influences to deal with. But you make it sound like a dictatorship of sorts.

And, yes, the Psalm 2 passage is There.

And compared to how this world is doing NOW -- well -- there is the 7 yr tribulation period coming -- whoever survives That will be in this world during those 1,000 yrs. The Church will be up and out during at least half of that time. But we Do have those 1,000 yrs. to look Forward To. There will be No unGodly leadership. It Wil Be Godly -- Just.

IF people could simply be content with Obeying the Law Now -- the world would be a better place. Put God back in where He's been taken out of.

 

[B-A-C]

In the future -- Jesus Christ Will return and reign here on earth for 1,000 yrs. He will reign from Jerusalem -- a righteous leader, judge. There will be No evil influences to deal with. But you make it sound like a dictatorship of sorts.

Rev 20:7; When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8; and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

It will be a dictatorship of sorts.

Psa 2:9; 'You shall break them with a rod of iron, You shall shatter them like earthenware.'"
Rev 2:27; AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father;
Rev 12:5; And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
Rev 19:15; From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

Rev 19:11; And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.
Rev 19:12; His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.
Rev 19:13; He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14; And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
Rev 19:15; From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
Rev 19:16; And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
Rev 19:17; Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God,
Rev 19:18; so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great."
Rev 19:19; And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
Rev 19:20; And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
Rev 19:21; And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 

[Sue D.]

@ B-A-C -- you're a step ahead of me. Hadn't gotten to that part yet. All of that is yet to come.

 

[Beetow]

• John 1:1 . . In the beginning was the word,

The "word" is translated from a Greek noun that primarily refers to audible speech.

The English you are reading in this paragraph isn't audible speech, rather, it's a
transcription of my thoughts. In point of fact, this paragraph has never been on my
tongue-- it wound up as legible print on the Talk Jesus forum via my keyboard
rather than via my tongue.

• John 1:3 . . All things were made by him-- referring of course to Gen 1:1, which reads:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

God did all that work by means of audible speech, for example Gen 1:3

"And God said: Let there be light"; and there was light."

I can neither comprehend nor explain exactly how God's audible speech can be
both a language and a person; nevertheless there it is. This is one of those
instances where faith believes what's revealed to it rather than only what makes
sense to it.
_

 

[JerryfromMass]

• John 1:1 . . In the beginning was the word,

The "word" is translated from a Greek noun that primarily refers to audible speech.

The English you are reading in this paragraph isn't audible speech, rather, it's a
transcription of my thoughts. In point of fact, this paragraph has never been on my
tongue-- it wound up as legible print on the Talk Jesus forum via my keyboard
rather than via my tongue.

• John 1:3 . . All things were made by him-- referring of course to Gen 1:1, which reads:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

God did all that work by means of audible speech, for example Gen 1:3

"And God said: Let there be light"; and there was light."

I can neither comprehend nor explain exactly how God's audible speech can be
both a language and a person; nevertheless there it is. This is one of those
instances where faith believes what's revealed to it rather than only what makes
sense to it.
_

We walk not by sight, but by faith. How can anyone know God fully, for example: God is one, but God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Three persons - One God. Can we see this? No. But by faith we believe.

Adonai eloheynu Adonai Echad.

That God is ONE and consists of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is a mystery that we accept by faith.

So too a mystety is the fact that the Word is God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Faith.

 

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The word 'word' is Capitalized "Word" -- Jesus Christ is the Word . Jesus Christ was with God and the Word (Jesus Christ) Was God.

vs 2 "He was in the beginning with God."

The NKJ has 'word' capitalized. Which would be different than word Not capitalized.

 

[Sue D.]

@JerryfromMass -- Jesus Christ was God incarnate. Immanuel -- Matthew 1:23 from Isaiah 7:14. He dwelt among us for those 33 yrs. He was crucified, buried and rose again bodily on the 3rd day. And then after the next 40 days, Jesus Christ ascended back up to heaven in Acts 1 to be at the right hand of God the Father.

Quite amazing.

 

[JerryfromMass]

@JerryfromMass -- Jesus Christ was God incarnate. Immanuel -- Matthew 1:23 from Isaiah 7:14. He dwelt among us for those 33 yrs. He was crucified, buried and rose again bodily on the 3rd day. And then after the next 40 days, Jesus Christ ascended back up to heaven in Acts 1 to be at the right hand of God the Father.

Quite amazing.

Yes indeed Sue. God left his rightful and eternal place in heaven and became flesh to reconcile HIMSELF to humanity and to reconcile humanity to HIMSELF. Quite amazing indeed.

 

[Beetow]

The word 'word' is Capitalized "Word"

Although common Bibles print "the word" of John 1:1-3 with upper case letters,
spelling it like that isn't essential because logos (log'-os) isn't a proper noun.

There are numerous verses in common Bibles-- far too many for my limited
patience to count --where "the word" is spelled with lower case letters. For example
Mark 7:13 where we find:

"Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down."

The thing is: sometimes editors take the liberty to interpret the Bible rather than
translate it. In other words; their decision to use upper case letters to spell "the
word" of John 1:1-3 was entirely arbitrary rather than scholarly.

FYI: Even theos (theh'-os) -- a common word for God the supreme being-- need not
always be spelled with upper case letters. The decision to do so is often due to bias
rather than required by the Greek manuscripts' grammar.

The bottom line is: Beware making a federal case out of capitalization because sure
enough, one day it will come back to haunt you; if it doesn't shoot you in the foot
first.

Caveat Lector.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- there Is a difference between the 'word' of God in Mark 7:13 and the Word. The Mark passage is talking about words spoken by God that had been handed down by tradition.

That has nothing to do with 'sometimes editors take the liberty to interpret the Bible rather than translate it."

When the "Word" is talked about -- it Means Jesus Christ Being the "Word" . It IS important Theology.

 

[Beetow]

When the "Word" is talked about -- it Means Jesus Christ Being the "Word" . It IS
important Theology.

"the word" in John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 is capitalized for your convenience, i.e.
editors capitalize it to accommodate the Christian world's common belief that the
supreme being's spoken words are a sentient divinity, whereas His transcribed
words are merely ink.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- you are discrediting God's Word as Being God's Word -- you seem to be wanting to fit theology to suit Your beliefs or lack of them.

 

[Sue D.]

Although common Bibles print "the word" of John 1:1-3 with upper case letters,
spelling it like that isn't essential because logos (log'-os) isn't a proper noun.

There are numerous verses in common Bibles-- far too many for my limited
patience to count --where "the word" is spelled with lower case letters. For example
Mark 7:13 where we find:

"Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down."

The thing is: sometimes editors take the liberty to interpret the Bible rather than
translate it. In other words; their decision to use upper case letters to spell "the
word" of John 1:1-3 was entirely arbitrary rather than scholarly.

FYI: Even theos (theh'-os) -- a common word for God the supreme being-- need not
always be spelled with upper case letters. The decision to do so is often due to bias
rather than required by the Greek manuscripts' grammar.

The bottom line is: Beware making a federal case out of capitalization because sure
enough, one day it will come back to haunt you; if it doesn't shoot you in the foot
first.

Caveat Lector.
_

You've used the term 'common Bibles' -- is there an uncommon Bible? The Bible is God's Word. Written just as He intended it To be written. And, yes , it Has been translated from Greek, Hebrew, some Armaic to Latin and then to all the various languages. But those translators made every effort possible to retain Scripture as accurately as possible.

Capitalization Is Very important -- a federal case Needs to be made of it. Especially in the Bible. The context of the passage is extremely important.

Don't really care who 'Caveat Lector' is.

 

[Sue D.]

Yes indeed Sue. God left his rightful and eternal place in heaven and became flesh to reconcile HIMSELF to humanity and to reconcile humanity to HIMSELF. Quite amazing indeed.

A question -- Why would God need to reconcile Himself to humanity? To reconcile humanity to Himself through Jesus Christ, yes.

 

[Garee]

"the word" in John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 is capitalized for your convenience, i.e.
editors capitalize it to accommodate the Christian world's common belief that the
supreme being's spoken words are a sentient divinity, whereas His transcribed
words are merely ink.
_

In the NLT it states. . the Word became human rather than dwelt in a human .

God is not an man as us .

God is Light, God is Spirit, God is Love.

The power that the Son of man Jesus had working in him worked t o both reveal the will of the the father and the power to perform it That power was not of Jesus as the Son of man .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.