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Married spiritually but not legally

John 4:16; He *said to her, "Go, call your husband and come here."
John 4:17; The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus *said to her, "You have correctly said, 'I have no husband';
John 4:18; for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly."


Jesus didn't consider shacking up, the same as being married. This woman had 5 husbands, but the one she is living with now, is not her husband.
 
Marriage comes when two hearts are joined as one.
Which, of course, has nothing to do with ceremonies, rituals, or anything else related to the "Wedding process". Jacob in the Bible had NO IDEA who he was consummating his marriage with, but Biblically Leah was STILL is wife. I.e. when you've "Joined flesh", then you're married.
 
I wonder if you have any scripture to support either of those statements?

Jer 44:17; "But rather we will certainly carry out every word that has proceeded from our mouths, by burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, just as we ourselves, our forefathers, our kings and our princes did in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; for then we had plenty of food and were well off and saw no misfortune.
Jer 44:18; "But since we stopped burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked everything and have met our end by the sword and by famine."
Jer 44:19; "And," said the women, "when we were burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and were pouring out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands that we made for her sacrificial cakes in her image and poured out drink offerings to her?"
Jer 44:20; Then Jeremiah said to all the people, to the men and women—even to all the people who were giving him such an answer—saying,
Jer 44:21; "As for the smoking sacrifices that you burned in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem, you and your forefathers, your kings and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the LORD remember them and did not all this come into His mind?
Jer 44:22; "So the LORD was no longer able to endure it, because of the evil of your deeds, because of the abominations which you have committed; thus your land has become a ruin, an object of horror and a curse, without an inhabitant, as it is this day.
Jer 44:23; "Because you have burned sacrifices and have sinned against the LORD and not obeyed the voice of the LORD or walked in His law, His statutes or His testimonies, therefore this calamity has befallen you, as it has this day."
Jer 44:24; Then Jeremiah said to all the people, including all the women, "Hear the word of the LORD, all Judah who are in the land of Egypt,
Jer 44:25; thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, as follows: 'As for you and your wives, you have spoken with your mouths and fulfilled it with your hands, saying, "We will certainly perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her." Go ahead and confirm your vows, and certainly perform your vows!'
Jer 44:26; "Nevertheless hear the word of the LORD, all Judah who are living in the land of Egypt, 'Behold, I have sworn by My great name,' says the LORD, 'never shall My name be invoked again by the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, "As the Lord GOD lives."
Jer 44:27; 'Behold, I am watching over them for harm and not for good, and all the men of Judah who are in the land of Egypt will meet their end by the sword and by famine until they are completely gone.

God did not look favorably on any who worship the "queen of heaven". A false god.
If you look to the Old Testament and see how the Jews had so much respect for the Ark of the Covenant even after they lost the stone tablets. Mary is the Ark of the Covenant because the Covenant is Jesus
 
Which, of course, has nothing to do with ceremonies, rituals, or anything else related to the "Wedding process". Jacob in the Bible had NO IDEA who he was consummating his marriage with, but Biblically Leah was STILL is wife. I.e. when you've "Joined flesh", then you're married.
The term join flesh is so misleading, what about rape that is joined flesh isn't it. Is that marriage
 
Which, of course, has nothing to do with ceremonies, rituals, or anything else related to the "Wedding process". Jacob in the Bible had NO IDEA who he was consummating his marriage with, but Biblically Leah was STILL is wife. I.e. when you've "Joined flesh", then you're married.
Is it the ritual that makes the marriage. Is it the ceremony that makes the marriage. Or is it two hearts that come together as one that makes the marriage
 
Let us look at the Ten Commandments. Who is the word of God? That is Jesus so when you have the word of God written on stone tablets those stone tablets are Jesus or should I say the words that are written on the stone tablets are Jesus because he is the word of God see John 1:1. And if Jesus is the word of God and if Jesus is The Ten Commandments the law of God then we have to understand that Mary is the Ark of the Covenant and Jesus is the Covenant of the New Testament as well as the Old Testament
 
It's the "joining of flesh". Just ask Jacob.

Jacob isn't the final authority, God is. He calls it fornication and adultery.

for·ni·ca·tion
/ˌfôrnəˈkāSH(ə)n/
Learn to pronounce

noun
FORMAL•HUMOROUS

  1. sexual intercourse between people not married to each other.
    "laws forbidding adultery and fornication"

Acts 21:25; "But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication."

1Cor 6:18; Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
Col 3:5; Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
1Thes 4:3; For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Exod 22:16; "If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife.
 
But regardless, Leah was STILL Jacob's wife in the morning. SURPRISE!!!!

In any case, Isaac worked 7 years for her and paid a dowry. There was still a ceremony.
Rachel is called "wife". Can you give me a scripture that specifically states Leah is called "wife".
Gen 29:28; Jacob did so and completed her week, and he gave him his daughter Rachel as his wife.
Gen 29:22; Laban gathered all the men of the place and made a feast.
Gen 29:23; Now in the evening he took his daughter Leah, and brought her to him; and Jacob went in to her.
 
In any case, Isaac worked 7 years for her and paid a dowry. There was still a ceremony.
Rachel is called "wife". Can you give me a scripture that specifically states Leah is called "wife".
Gen 29:28; Jacob did so and completed her week, and he gave him his daughter Rachel as his wife.
Gen 29:22; Laban gathered all the men of the place and made a feast.
Gen 29:23; Now in the evening he took his daughter Leah, and brought her to him; and Jacob went in to her.
Could be Leah didn't consent to that.

And since she obviously want part of the ceremony, didn't make any vows.
 
What Is a Jewish Wedding?
A traditional Jewish wedding (called a chatunah, חֲתֻנָּה) is a tapestry woven from many threads: biblical, historical, mystical, cultural and legal. Threads carried from one generation to the next, forming a chain of Jewish continuity which goes back more than 3,800 years. On the cosmic level, our sages teach that each marriage ceremony is a reenactment of the marriage between G‑d and the Jewish people that took place at Mount Sinai, and that the wedding day is a personal Yom Kippur—the holiest and most auspicious day of one's life.

But a marriage is also an intricate legal transaction, by which bride and groom enter a mutually binding commitment. The rituals and traditions of the Jewish wedding derive from both its legalistic particulars and its underlying spiritual themes—the body and soul of the Jewish wedding.

The Jewish wedding typically starts in midafternoon and ends late at night, but it can be longer or shorter. It is generally followed by seven days of celebration (sheva brachot, שֶׁבַע בְּרָכוֹת).

Play Video
What Happens at a Jewish Wedding?

3
In this article:
Kabbalat Panim—The Pre-Wedding Reception
Badeken—Veiling the Bride
The Chupah—Marriage Canopy
The Wedding Procession
The Betrothal
The Ketubah—Marriage Contract
Finalizing the Nuptials
Yichud Room
The Wedding Reception
Grace after Meals
Kabbalat Panim—The Pre-Wedding Reception

The Jewish wedding traditionally begins with a special "kabbalat panim"—reception—in honor of the bride and groom. Our sages tell us that on their wedding day, the bridegroom is like a king and the bride is like a queen. Special powers are granted to them from On High; they are made sovereign over their own lives and over their surroundings. All their previous sins and failings are forgiven, and they are empowered to chart a new future for themselves and bestow blessing and grace to their loved ones and friends. It is to honor their special status that we hold a reception for them, as for visiting royalty.

Two separate receptions are held (usually in adjacent rooms) one for the bride and another for the groom. By tradition, the bride and groom refrain from seeing each other for a full week prior to their wedding, so as to increase their love and yearning for each other, and their subsequent joy in each other at their wedding. They will meet again only at the badeken (veiling ceremony) that follows the reception.

The bride sits on a distinctive, ornate throne-like chair. Her friends and family approach, wish Mazal Tov, and offer their heartfelt wishes and words of encouragement. At the groom's reception, songs are sung, and words of Torah are often delivered. Hors d'oeuvres, light refreshments, and l'chaims are served at both receptions.

In many communities, this occasion is used to complete and sign two of the wedding documents: the tenai'm ("engagement" contract) and the ketubah (marriage contract). At the conclusion of the reading of the tena'im, the mothers of the bride and groom break a china or glass plate, to the joyous shouts of Mazal Tov!

Learn more: Kabbalat Panim—Pre-Chupah Reception

Badeken—Veiling the Bride
Photo: Chaim Perl Photography/Chaimperl.com
Photo: Chaim Perl Photography/Chaimperl.com
After the kabbalat panim receptions comes the badeken, the veiling ceremony. A procession headed by the groom goes to the bridal reception room, where the groom covers the bride's face with a veil.

The custom of covering the bride's face with a veil originated with our matriarch Rebecca, who covered her face when meeting her groom, Isaac.

The veil emphasizes that the groom is not solely interested in the bride's external beauty, which fades with time, but rather in her inner beauty which she will never lose. It also emphasizes the innate modesty that is a hallmark of the Jewish woman. The bride's face remains veiled for the duration of the chupah ceremony, affording her privacy at this holy time.

After the groom veils the bride, the parents of the bride and groom approach the bride and bless her. The groom's entourage then retreats from the room. The bride and groom proceed with their chupah preparations and everyone else continues to the site of the chupah, the marriage canopy.

Learn more: Badeken—Veiling

The Chupah—Marriage Canopy
(c) Coby Engelhart
(c) Coby Engelhart
The chupah is a canopy which sits atop four poles and is usually ornately decorated. The marriage ceremony takes place beneath this canopy which is open on all sides. This is a demonstration of the couple's commitment to establish a home which will always be open to guests, as was the tent of Abraham and Sarah.

Many have the custom for the chupah to be held beneath the open skies. This recalls G‑d's blessing to Abraham that his descendants be as numerous as the stars. Furthermore, a chupah held under the open heavens symbolizes the couple's resolve to establish a household which will be dominated by "heavenly" and spiritual ideals.

The chupah ceremony is traditionally characterized by an air of solemnity. Brides and grooms shedding copious tears is a common sight at traditional Jewish weddings. This is due to an acute awareness of the awe and magnitude of the moment.

It is customary in certain communities for the groom to wear a kittel, a long white frock, during the chupah. The pristine white kittel, traditionally worn on Yom Kippur, and the bride's white gown, are symbols of G‑d's atonement and perfect purity.

Indeed, the Shechinah, Divine Presence, graces the presence of every chupah ceremony. Joining also, are the deceased parents, grandparents and great-grandparents of the bride and groom, who descend from their heavenly abode to join the wedding celebration. The assembled audience is expected to demonstrate appropriate consideration for this holy occasion.

People today are "shacking up" living in adultery and calls that marriage, divorce, marriage, divorce, marriage...

Johann

Greetings brother

All this adds to what I included in my previous post and is very interesting, thank you brother.

But, at the time of Jesus, at Cana in Galilee, the procedure was as stated, and Jesus took that procedure and gave us the parable of, The Wedding Feast. All who are born again from above, Spiritually regenerated are invited to The Wedding Feast of the Lamb.

We are to look at the time of Jesus, to look at the culture at the time of Jesus, it can and does in many cases reveal more from the scriptures. To many people today, who call them Christians, or are born again Christians, they look at everything in the 'today mode'.

Everything should be looked at in the time and culture Jesus was on earth, I am sure you agree brother, this doesn't just include reading the scriptures, but understanding what the 'ekklesia' in those days.

We should all compare the early church, from Pentecost and include the first couple of centuries, certainly before Constantine, cir 300AD, and we will see a massive difference to what the church is today. That should ring alarm bells, but does it? I think not. Yet every place of worship, every denomination, believe they are right with God! They say we are a Gospel believing church, they see no wrong, no errors and have little or no concern. I would ask, how can any place of worship, who call themselves a church, say they believe they are right with God, we only need to look at the seven letters to the seven churches, not one was right with God. Lord forgive us.

Brother Paul
 
Greetings brother

All this adds to what I included in my previous post and is very interesting, thank you brother.

But, at the time of Jesus, at Cana in Galilee, the procedure was as stated, and Jesus took that procedure and gave us the parable of, The Wedding Feast. All who are born again from above, Spiritually regenerated are invited to The Wedding Feast of the Lamb.

We are to look at the time of Jesus, to look at the culture at the time of Jesus, it can and does in many cases reveal more from the scriptures. To many people today, who call them Christians, or are born again Christians, they look at everything in the 'today mode'.

Everything should be looked at in the time and culture Jesus was on earth, I am sure you agree brother, this doesn't just include reading the scriptures, but understanding what the 'ekklesia' in those days.

We should all compare the early church, from Pentecost and include the first couple of centuries, certainly before Constantine, cir 300AD, and we will see a massive difference to what the church is today. That should ring alarm bells, but does it? I think not. Yet every place of worship, every denomination, believe they are right with God! They say we are a Gospel believing church, they see no wrong, no errors and have little or no concern. I would ask, how can any place of worship, who call themselves a church, say they believe they are right with God, we only need to look at the seven letters to the seven churches, not one was right with God. Lord forgive us.

Brother Paul
I agree with every jot and tittle you have typed/posted @Brother Paul and could add some more, but for the sake of peace, won't.

Johann
 
I agree with every jot and tittle you have typed/posted @Brother Paul and could add some more, but for the sake of peace, won't.

Johann

Greetings

It is not a competition my friend, I complimented you on what you had posted. I do notice a lot of what you quote is taking from a search on the internet, but we should post in love at all times, build each other up in Christ Jesus to help strengthen our Faith, help us practice Righteousness, help us abide in Christ more and more, and give Glory to God in Jesus Name Amen.

Now looking at the scriptures, location Cana in Galilee, at the time of Jesus, our Lord gave us a number of important messages.
1 - was Mary saying do what ever He tells you
2 - was Jesus first miracle turning a massive amount of water into a massive amount of wine

These do get preached in slightly different ways over and over again, year after year.

But there was more than just those important items; location Cana in Galilee, at this wedding.
Based on the marriage celebrations, at that place and time in history, Jesus gave us a glimpe of heaven, he gave us a glimpse of a wedding feast like no other.

It is by understanding what happened then, the place, the culture and the practices of that time, that we understand the future things he would talk about to his disciples. The giving of wine, the covenant in law for marriage of one man and one woman, the period of separation in those days up to twelve month, the groom has to the Father to prepare a room for his bride, the bride has returned to her home to prepare herself for the grooms return for her. I find this an absolutely incredible, marvelous, joyous, message, which points every abiding, obeying, born again soul to a FEAST of FEASTS, the Wedding Feast of the Lamb.

Peace be with you brother.
 
It is not a competition my friend, I complimented you on what you had posted. I do notice a lot of what you quote is taking from a search on the internet, but we should post in love at all times, build each other up in Christ Jesus to help strengthen our Faith, help us practice Righteousness, help us abide in Christ more and more, and give Glory to God in Jesus Name Amen.
Who said anything about a competition here?

As for Internet resourses John 1:3 Commentary | Precept Austin...

......is my go to, and highly recommend it to everyone who needs building each other up in our most holy faith, and the application of scriptures and the added bonus is that this site regularly updates the contents, so
A. What competition?
B. Don't you have a secondary resource on the Jewish wedding? Yes/No?
C. Am I posting in a heteros spirit, or in love?
D. No need for a back hand slap on using Internet resources, unless there is a complete misunderstanding.
E. Most of the [Internet] posts are for the edification and uplifting of the saints, Yes/No?

If I cannot find encouragement here I would rather encourage, or seek encouragement from the Lord, as a genuine, blood washed, born again, sealed with the Holy Spirit believer in Christ.

Yes?

Johann
 
Greetings

It is not a competition my friend, I complimented you on what you had posted. I do notice a lot of what you quote is taking from a search on the internet, but we should post in love at all times, build each other up in Christ Jesus to help strengthen our Faith, help us practice Righteousness, help us abide in Christ more and more, and give Glory to God in Jesus Name Amen.

Now looking at the scriptures, location Cana in Galilee, at the time of Jesus, our Lord gave us a number of important messages.
1 - was Mary saying do what ever He tells you
2 - was Jesus first miracle turning a massive amount of water into a massive amount of wine

These do get preached in slightly different ways over and over again, year after year.

But there was more than just those important items; location Cana in Galilee, at this wedding.
Based on the marriage celebrations, at that place and time in history, Jesus gave us a glimpe of heaven, he gave us a glimpse of a wedding feast like no other.

It is by understanding what happened then, the place, the culture and the practices of that time, that we understand the future things he would talk about to his disciples. The giving of wine, the covenant in law for marriage of one man and one woman, the period of separation in those days up to twelve month, the groom has to the Father to prepare a room for his bride, the bride has returned to her home to prepare herself for the grooms return for her. I find this an absolutely incredible, marvelous, joyous, message, which points every abiding, obeying, born again soul to a FEAST of FEASTS, the Wedding Feast of the Lamb.

Peace be with you brother.
Now looking at the scriptures, location Cana in Galilee, at the time of Jesus, our Lord gave us a number of important messages.

1 - was Mary saying do what ever He tells you

2 - was Jesus first miracle turning a massive amount of water into a massive amount of wine



These do get preached in slightly different ways over and over again, year after year.

How do you preach it, and what resources are you using?
 
Now looking at the scriptures, location Cana in Galilee, at the time of Jesus, our Lord gave us a number of important messages.

1 - was Mary saying do what ever He tells you

2 - was Jesus first miracle turning a massive amount of water into a massive amount of wine



These do get preached in slightly different ways over and over again, year after year.

How do you preach it, and what resources are you using?

I have LOGOS Bible software

56 Bible versions
954 Bible Commentaries
844 Monograph
Plus sermons, sermon outlines, study guides, lexicons and more
2840 resources

and yourself?

1 - John 2:5 His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.

2 - Yes
John 6:6-9
Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece.
Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” And they filled them up to the brim.
And He said to them, “Draw some out now, and take it to the master of the feast.” And they took it.
When the master of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine

That is... 120 to 180 gallons of wine!

What ever the Lord does he provides quality and quantity, let us now focus on the Wedding Feast of the Lamb.
Quality and Quantity, but the best is just being with Jesus

Blessings
 
I have LOGOS Bible software

56 Bible versions
954 Bible Commentaries
844 Monograph
Plus sermons, sermon outlines, study guides, lexoicons and more
2840 resources

Count your blessings then @Brother Paul, you probably have the gold edition.

See, you do need a secondary resource re the Jewish Chasunoh, and as you may have noticed, my secondary resource is PreceptAustin.

So what's up with the competition and why the remark on what I am using and what I am posting?

Not being facetious

Johann
 
I agree with every jot and tittle you have typed/posted @Brother Paul and could add some more, but for the sake of peace, won't.

Johann

The compliment was taking as is, in love. The latter part I felt was not needed, you could add more, maybe you could, doesn't it really matter, was the statement needed?

But then you add, but for the sake of peace won't!

Maybe it is your manner, maybe I over reacted, maybe both.

We are brothers, let us share in peace and love, in Jesus Name.

Shalom
 
Count your blessings then @Brother Paul, you probably have the gold edition.

No I don't have the Gold, I have used Bible software for a long time and just added to my library over the years.

But have studied the Bible with hardback commentaries etc long before that.

God Bless you, Jesus is Lord
 
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