Once Saved Always Saved and Conditional Security

[Cody]

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! James 2:19

You're right, the demons believe in God, but they don't put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ because they can't.

 

[Cody]

Pentecostal, I believe anyone with brains could divide the OT and NT. The NT tells us that the Jews are bound by certain laws that the Gentiles are not.

Noah built an ark, are we supposed to? If you think that is a bad example then just read the Old Testament and I'm sure you can find something to divide from the NT.

I believe the Pauline Epistles are the gospel we go by. I believe the whole Bible can be used for daily living. Don't get me wrong, I believe the whole Bible and I wouldn't do without one book. We need every book and every word of the Bible.

Luke 4:4
"And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." KJV

Romans 16:25
"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began," KJV

I'm sure I can't explain the whole dispensation thing to you, but I'll link you with a website you can check out, if you would like.

Link: Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth

I love God and try my best to live by His commandments. Knowing that I'm sealed by the Holy Spirit(Ephesians 4:30), doesn't make me want to go out and sin my life away. I know God will punish me and I love God and want to give my life to Him. I want to witness and be a light to people. How could I do that if I was out living in the world?

Philippians 1:21
"For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." KJV

Link: Eternal Security

I'm curious, what do I have to do to be unborn of God? Jesus parallels spiritual birth with being born of the womb(John 3). If I can't be unborn of my mom, how can I be unborn of GOD?

 

[Pentecostal]

Pentecostal, I believe anyone with brains could divide the OT and NT. The NT tells us that the Jews are bound by certain laws that the Gentiles are not.

Please are you insinuating that I have no brains? Space does not permit me to explain 2nd Timothy 2:15 properly but at some point in the future I will.

Where in the New Testament does the Bible ever say that we (gentiles) are NOT bound to obey Gods commandments?

We are certainly NOT bound to continue celebrating ritualistic sacrificial ceremonies that are still practiced by the Jews who do not believe Jesus is the messiah BUT we are defintiely bound to obey the basic ten commandments of God!

If you have been taught that you are not bound to these laws then you are a very misinformed individual!

Noah built an ark, are we supposed to?

I'm sorry but this is an absolutely ridiculous comparison!

If you think that is a bad example then just read the Old Testament and I'm sure you can find something to divide from the NT.

You're saying this like I cut away parts of the scripture to defend my beliefs when the real fact is those who supoport the eternal security theory are actually the ones who really do this.

I have yet to find ONE supporter of the eternal securtiy theory who actually bases their belief on all of Gods word.

I believe the Pauline Epistles are the gospel we go by. I believe the whole Bible can be used for daily living. Don't get me wrong, I believe the whole Bible and I wouldn't do without one book. We need every book and every word of the Bible.

Paul did not teach or support eternal security.

Luke 4:4
"And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." KJV

Romans 16:25
"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began," KJV

I'm sure I can't explain the whole dispensation thing to you, but I'll link you with a website you can check out, if you would like.

I love God and try my best to live by His commandments. Knowing that I'm sealed by the Holy Spirit(Ephesians 4:30), doesn't make me want to go out and sin my life away. I know God will punish me and I love God and want to give my life to Him. I want to witness and be a light to people. How could I do that if I was out living in the world?

Philippians 1:21
"For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." KJV

I have read the entire Bible 20 times since I became a Christian.

I graduated from a 2 year Bible college in the top 5 students with a 4.0 grade average in May 2000.

I still study Gods word and sit under the guidance of the Holy Spirit depending by faith on him to give me deeper revelation into the hidden truths of the scriptures.

I certainly do not place my trust in the theories of men for acquiring the divine truths I need to live my life pleasing in the sight of God my savior.

Yes I am willing to read the theories and ideas of men but as a good berean (Acts 17:11) I search the scriptures thoroughly comparing verse with verse accurately to see if the things these individuals teach ARE scripturally sound or not.

If even ONE theory they teach does not agree witrh even ONE verse of scripture, the theory is wrong and thus a false doctrine.

In my original post in this thread I stated that Paul said he kept his flesh under subjection lest he became a castaway, this is undeniable scriptural proof that Paul did NOT believe in eternal security, because IF he did he never would said or in anyway insinuated that it was possible for HIM to become a castaway!

I'm curious, what do I have to do to be unborn of God? Jesus parallels spiritual birth with being born of the womb(John 3). If I can't be unborn of my mom, how can I be unborn of GOD?

Sin and fail to seek the forgiveness of God for the sin.....

In a previous post you asked me if I ever went a week without sinning, no one goes for even a day without sinning, even you.

We all KNOW when we sin, sin does not suddenly creep up on us, we sin openly and we sin knowingly.

You don't accidently sin, and neither do I, we both have a God given free will with which we have the individual ability to choose to sin, or not to sin.

The ONE and the ONLY way to receive the forgiveness of God for the sins we commit everyday is the Bible way (1st John 1:9)

I sin, more than I should BUT I have a steadfast assurance from God that when I do sin and I confess that sin he is faithful and just to forgive me that sin and to cleanse me of all unrighteousness.

I said it before and I will say it again, the theory of Eternal Security is a fools gamble that is not worth placing a bet on since the final pay off is such a high and eternally painful price to pay.

 

[Cody]

I didn't say you had no brains. Sorry if it read like that, brother.

I obey God's Commandments, but I don't need an animal sacrifice to be forgiven of sin. I don't have to be circumcised either. I have the Blood of Christ and when Jesus said "It is Finished" in John 19:30, I believe He meant it. I'm not saying I don't obey God's commandments. I try to just like you, I just don't depend on my works to get me to Heaven.

Paul don't teach Eternal Security? I've quoted you verses of the Pauline Epistles, plus gave you website references that teach the believer in sealed by the Holy Spirit.

I ask for forgiveness because the Holy Spirit convicts me every time I sin. When I sin, God lets me know it. I don't know how a believer can sin and not know it.

Divide the flesh from the spirit and you'll understand eternal security. I'm sure you think people that believe the Blood of Christ is good enough for forgiveness of sins are saying that to get away with sinning anytime they want, but you're probably looking at people you "think" are saved.

You can think depending on the Blood of Christ is a gamble if you want, but I'm putting all my money on it. I love living for the Lord and doing good works, but at the same time I know works aren't taking me to Heaven. If I can't do good works to get saved, then how can I do bad works to be unsaved?

Link: Once Saved, Always Saved

 

[Pentecostal]

I didn't say you had no brains. Sorry if it read like that, brother.

I accept your apology and forgive you.

I obey God's Commandments, but I don't need an animal sacrifice to be forgiven of sin. I don't have to be circumcised either.

Well of course I am certain that I do not need an animal sacrifice to be saved, and I am also confident that I do need to be circumcised either, I already pointed that fact out.

I have the Blood of Christ and when Jesus said "It is Finished" in John 19:30, I believe He meant it. I'm not saying I don't obey God's commandments. I try to just like you, I just don't depend on my works to get me to Heaven.

I also have the same blood of Christ which I am also confident in.

I am also not depending on MY works to get me to heaven, but I am striving through my OBEDIENCE to Gods commandments to keep me saved because that is a MUST for every person who professes to be Christ’s, and as I have already pointed out from the words of Jesus himself it is proof that we really love him.

Paul don't teach Eternal Security? I've quoted you verses of the Pauline Epistles, plus gave you website references that teach the believer in sealed by the Holy Spirit.

I’ve already proven through sufficient Scriptural evidence that Paul did NOT teach Eternal Security.

All scripture is profitable for doctrine, not some, if even ONE scripture refutes anything in a doctrine that scripture is sufficient to prove the doctrine to be false.

Paul said he kept his flesh under subjection lest he become a castaway, to become a castaway meant to be separated from God which is the result of sin that has not been confessed.

Paul would never have made that statement had he truly believed in Eternal Security.

I ask for forgiveness because the Holy Spirit convicts me every time I sin. When I sin, God lets me know it. I don't know how a believer can sin and not know it

As do I. God also lets me know when I sin. I know how someone who depends on the doctrine of Eternal Security would think it’s alright to sin because I know people who think they are saved who do just that daily.

Divide the flesh from the spirit and you'll understand eternal security.

Dividing the flesh from the spirit makes me understand Eternal Security to be a false doctrine!

I'm sure you think people that believe the Blood of Christ is good enough for forgiveness of sins are saying that to get away with sinning anytime they want, but you're probably looking at people you "think" are saved.

The doctrine of Eternal Security gives those who think it is a sound Biblical doctrine the false ‘Impression’ that they can continue to live a life of sin and NEVER be held accountable for their actions.

The false teaching within Eternal Security that a persons future sins have already been forgiven of itself proves this to be true.

You can think depending on the Blood of Christ is a gamble if you want, but I'm putting all my money on it.

Once again you make an extremely bad false accusation against me!

I NEVER said depending on the blood of Christ was a gamble!!

I said depending on the FALSE doctrine of Eternal Security is a gamble.

You certainly do not need to say that I have ever said things that I have never said.

I love living for the Lord and doing good works, but at the same time I know works aren't taking me to Heaven. If I can't do good works to get saved, then how can I do bad works to be unsaved?

IF you are really doing the things you say you are, awesome, BUT those who trust in the false doctrine of Eternal Security and continue living in sin, thinking their future sins have already been forgiven, refusing to confess those sins, thinking they are NEVER to be held accountable for their actions will spend eternity in hell.

There is no need for any further discussion on this subject. I know from personal study of the Scriptures that I am right, because the scriptures are right concerning this matter. I will NEVER sway from the truth of the scriptures. WhenI am asked by someone new in Christ about the doctrine of Eternal Security I always answer them as I should, I tell them (Using sufficient Biblical evidence as proof of course) that it is a false doctrine that they should NEVER place their trust in.

I care enough about my fellow Christians to tell them the truth about a lie.....

 

[Cody]

Paul said he kept his flesh under subjection lest he become a castaway, to become a castaway meant to be separated from God which is the result of sin that has not been confessed.

That verse has nothing to do with Eternal Security. Everyone knows that we're suppose to keep our flesh under subjection. Everyone knows when you don't deny the flesh, you get out of fellowship with God.

The apostle Paul describes how he is careful to be self-disciplined and to bring his body into subjection “lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.” Does this word translated “disqualified” (NASB) suggest that Paul feared losing his salvation? Once again, as we see also in Rom. 11:22, it may be that Paul is echoing a theme found elsewhere in his letters and throughout the NT, namely, that ultimate salvation is dependent on perseverance in faith (cf. Rom. 8:13; Col. 1:23; Heb. 3:6,14; 1 Peter 1:5; 1 John 2:19), a faith which Paul believes God graciously preserves and sustains within us (see, e.g., Phil. 2:12-13).

More likely, however, is Paul’s concern that he not become slack or indifferent in his ministry lest he forfeit God’s approval on his apostolic endeavors (and perhaps the power of the Holy Spirit that energized his work). He fears not hearing God say: “Well done, good and faithful servant,” and thereby forfeiting the divine blessings and rewards he otherwise would receive (a theme he earlier addressed in 1 Cor. 3:10-15). The Greek word adokimos (translated “disqualified”) does not pertain to the test of faith but to the test of apostleship. In 2 Corinthians Paul applies the terminology of testing (adokimos and its cognates) to himself as an apostle, not as a professing Christian (see 13:6-7; cf. 1 Thess. 2:4; 2 Tim. 2:15. Gundry-Volf concludes:

Link: Enjoying God Ministries

The doctrine of Eternal Security gives those who think it is a sound Biblical doctrine the false ‘Impression’ that they can continue to live a life of sin and NEVER be held accountable for their actions.

The false teaching within Eternal Security that a persons future sins have already been forgiven of itself proves this to be true.

IF you are really doing the things you say you are, awesome, BUT those who trust in the false doctrine of Eternal Security and continue living in sin, thinking their future sins have already been forgiven, refusing to confess those sins, thinking they are NEVER to be held accountable for their actions will spend eternity in hell.

I trust that Jesus can save my from my sins and His Blood is good enough. I believe Eternal Security and that does not make me a heathen, nor does it want to make me live bad. I know all my sins are under the blood, but I confess my sins.

There is no need for any further discussion on this subject. I know from personal study of the Scriptures that I am right, because the scriptures are right concerning this matter. I will NEVER sway from the truth of the scriptures. WhenI am asked by someone new in Christ about the doctrine of Eternal Security I always answer them as I should, I tell them (Using sufficient Biblical evidence as proof of course) that it is a false doctrine that they should NEVER place their trust in.

Lol, I'll take your word for it, even though I know many commentaries and scholars that agree with me about Eternal Security. You keep on telling people God can't keep them till the very end and I'll do just the opposite. :wink:

God Bless

 

[Pentecostal]

That verse has nothing to do with Eternal Security. Everyone knows that we're suppose to keep our flesh under subjection. Everyone knows when you don't deny the flesh, you get out of fellowship with God.

That may be what you think is true but it is certainly NOT what is really true.

Paul’s statement in 1st Corinthians 9 verse 27 clearly confirms the fact that Paul did NOT teach Eternal Security!

Again I point out, as before IF Paul had taught Eternal Security he never would have suggested that it was possible that HE could have been a castaway himself through sin!

The apostle Paul describes how he is careful to be self-disciplined and to bring his body into subjection “lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.” Does this word translated “disqualified” (NASB) suggest that Paul feared losing his salvation?

Using a Bible translation which supplies a ‘mans’ definition of a word which is NOT the correct definition is a profitless venture.

The original New testament was written in Greek, and the Greek Definition of the word castaway is: Unapproved, rejected, reprobate!

A reprobate is one who has lost fellowship with God, it is a person who has LOST their Salvation.

Again I point out correctly that the Apostle Paul did NOT teach Eternal Security

Once again, as we see also in Rom. 11:22, it may be that Paul is echoing a theme found elsewhere in his letters and throughout the NT, namely, that ultimate salvation is dependent on perseverance in faith (cf. Rom. 8:13; Col. 1:23; Heb. 3:6,14; 1 Peter 1:5; 1 John 2:19), a faith which Paul believes God graciously preserves and sustains within us (see, e.g., Phil. 2:12-13).

Well I am definitely surprised that you have used these scriptures as they all definitely confirm what I have said all along, Paul is telling everyone who reads his teachings the only way to keep their salvation is through faith AND obedience.



What else could possibly happen to the disobedient other than being cast off, and what exactly do you think being cast off entails?

Let me answer the question correctly for you: Loss of Salvation.

I trust that Jesus can save my from my sins and His Blood is good enough. I believe Eternal Security and that does not make me a heathen, nor does it want to make me live bad. I know all my sins are under the blood, but I confess my sins.

I have also trusted Jesus to save me form my past sins and I trust him to save me from the sins that I commit, but the word of God does not teach that future sins have already been forgiven, so I am not foolish enough to believe that lie.

I never said you were a heathen, it seems that you relish in posting things another person has never said, or even insinuated and THAT is an offensive act on your part.

I stated and it is a fact the lie that teaches that future sins have already been forgiven which is within the bigger lie of Eternal Security gives those who think these lies are true the ‘IMPRESSION’ that they can go on living in sin and still be saved.

I did NOT say you do that, BUT I know a couple near where I li9ve who do exactly that BECAUSE they think the lies I have mentioned are TRUE facts!

He was saved as a small boy, and she as a young adult.

They do not believe they have to attend church, they do not believe they need to pray, they do not believe they need to read their Bibles, they believe they can drink alcoholic beverages, smoke, cuss, watch porno on television, fact is, they believe they can do anything they want to do that they are NOT supposed to do, and they believe they do not have to do anything they should do.

I am certain there are millions just like this couple, and I am definitely sure there are also millions sitting in church pews who are exact duplicates of these as well!

Lol, I'll take your word for it, even though I know many commentaries and scholars that agree with me about Eternal Security. You keep on telling people God can't keep them till the very end and I'll do just the opposite. :wink:

God Bless

There’s nothing funny about it sir, teaching the ENTIRE truth of the scriptures correctly is not a laughing matter.

Sending people to hell through the promotion of a lie is a thing millions are going to be held accountable for at the final judgment, I would definitely not want to stand in their place on that day!

I always tell the people I counsel (Correctly) that God desires to keep them safe until the end at all times, but they have a free will that he has given to them, and it is entirely up to them alone whether or not they will allow God to keep them safely until the very end.

The purpose of the free will that God has given them is for them to have the ability to decide for themselves whether or not they will obey his commandments faithfully daily.

When temptations come along from the devil who is enticing them to commit sin, they have to determine on their own if they will deny the temptation by faith, or embrace the temptation.

I tell them correctly, if they deny the temptation by faith, theirs is the victory over the devil, BUT if they embrace the temptation the victory belongs to the devil.

I tell them correctly if they sin, they must immediately confess the sin that they have committed to God, and ask for his forgiveness.

I tell them their future sins are NOT forgiven, and I give them accurate Biblical evidence as proof of this fact!

I will definitely continue to teach Gods absolute truth.

Don't waste your time replying as I will NOT reply again. As I have already stated I have based all of my beliefs on ALL of Gods word, not on some parts and portions of Gods word, and ALL of Gods word is undeniably correct, therefore I am Biblically correct in my beliefs and the things I teach are Biblically correect!

God bless you!

 

[Cody]

Using a Bible translation which supplies a ‘mans’ definition of a word which is NOT the correct definition is a profitless venture.

I agree with you on the Bible translation comment, I only use the King James. I'm sure we can keep on talking about this subject and never agree. I will be Eternally Secure and I will serve God till I die. If that doesn't happen, I'll email you and tell you Eternal Salvation is wrong, but the love I felt when I got saved is too much to throw away.

The main thing is to preach the gospel and get people saved. I'm glad to know you study your Bible and I'll be praying for you as a brother in Christ.

God Bless you brother

 

[gotime]

Once saved always saved?

OK onece saved always saved is not a Biblical teaching this is why we are told to be watchfull and search ourselvs. Lam 3:40 Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD.

to simply believe is not what saves us though it is the foundation and without it we can not be saved but we are told that those who will be saved not only have faith but also obey GOd. Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Jesus said Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
and again Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

GOd says a man can turn from Righteousness which means the man wa saved before but lost it: Eze 3:20 Again, When a righteous [man] doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

GOd made salvation for all who would believe but GOd clearly lays some rules some measurment if you will which will destingwish His people from satans. this is why we are warned not to take the mark of the beast becasue its possible for us to take the mark of the beast.

those who are saved are those who walk the path of rightiousness daily and give up the world. they who strive to live a life like Christ who gave us an example and CHrist obeyed His Father as well as believed. It don't matter how much you believe it is your fruit that will tell you if you are saved or not.blessings

The Queston is not can GOd keep me but rahter will I let GOd keep me for even when saved we have a choice and if we do not remaine sober and wise in judgment then we can fall without really even knowing it but all who follow GOd and search themself will never fall,.

 

[Pentecostal]

I agree with you on the Bible translation comment, I only use the King James.

I'm not against other translations so much as I am against the use of wrong defintions of very important words to build as doctrine on.

Too many times when this is done, false doctrines (such as the doctrine of eternal security) are established which will eventually result in the eternal damnation of millions who trusted in a lie they thought was entirely Biblically sound.

I'm sure we can keep on talking about this subject and never agree.

That is somethiong we will always agree to disagree on Cody, because the doctrine is a lie, AS it is taught and promoted.

Please let me say something very pertinent here, and don't think I am agreeing wuith you because I am not.

I am absolutely confident that every believer IS Eternally secure BUT Only if that believer strives (according to their own free will) as best as they can to faithfully obey the commandments of God.

I have never believed and will never believe that it is absolutely impossible to live a sinless life, but I also know that none of us have attained the place in our Christian walk where we strive daily as we ought to do that!

Thus we all fall into the category of sinner constantly in desperate need of Gods forgiveness, and we are then always obkliged to cry out to God confessing our sins and pleading tearfully for forgiveness of those sins.

Sin, as I have correctly stated before is not something we fall in (whoooops) accidently! If I sin, If you sin, we both sin intentionally and before we sinned we both knew better, and we were both well aware of the potential consequences.

The individual who leaves this life with unconfessed sins will go to hell, saved or not, if a Christian commits a sin and dies without having confessed that sin that person will spend eternity in hell, that is why it is vital for us all to strive for Holiness daily.

That is also why I do not believe in or promote the doctrine of Eternal security, it is a catalyst for premediated eternal spiritual murder at best.

I will be Eternally Secure

Only if you obey the commandments of God faithfully as best as you are able, and then if you do sin only if you confess the sin and ask for Gods forgiveness.

I will serve God till I die. If that doesn't happen, I'll email you and tell you Eternal Salvation is wrong.

The email won't be neccessary, I am already correctly confident that the doctrine of Eternal Security (as it is taught) is false!

but the love I felt when I got saved is too much to throw away.

You know Cody I am beginning to get very upset by the insinuations that you are making that I would be so calous and indifferent as to toss aside the love of God for me, and the whole world as if it were just so much stinking garbage!

Did you NOT read my brief personal testimony in the earlier reply to your accusation that I did not understand the love of God?

Sir if you did not read that please go back and read it! I have personally experienced the pain and miseries of the worst types of hatred during my lifetime and I have (In My Savior Jesus) experienced the deepest and most compassionate love, so please do not say ormin anwya insinuate that I do NOT love my redeemer or understand and appreciate his love for me!

It is because of own understanding and deep appreciation of his love that I fight so vehemently against false doctrines especially one that I KNOW is causing millions to end up in hell!

The main thing is to preach the gospel and get people saved.

THAT we can agree on!

I'm glad to know you study your Bible and I'll be praying for you as a brother in Christ.

God Bless you brother

I will also pray for you, as my brother in Christ.

God bless you Brother! :handshake:

 

[Pentecostal]

I pray the discussion will not stop because of anything that I have posted.

I have simply expressed my own beliefs and I believe anyone and everyone also has the same equal right to express theirs.

If anything I have said has caused offense toward anyone at all I sincerely apologize and humbly ask your forgiveness, I honestly meant no offense toward anyone in anyway.

Yes we will all not completely agree but that's life as it is, and life goes on, as it is regardless of whether we agree or not.

I actually do have a teachable spirit, and am willing to change IF my beliefs are proven incorrect, through the use of sound Scriptural evidence but thus far that has happened.....

 

[Cody]

1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." KJV

Amen and Amen.

 

[Pentecostal]

1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." KJV

Amen and Amen.

Cody this scripture still doesn't prove Eternal Security to be a Scripturally correct doctrine.

It only proves that there are some people who don't really desire to be Christians that's all this scripture relates too.

People choose to serve God, God does not force anyone to serve him, if God could do that everyone everywhere would be serving him.

I again submit, we all have a God given free will which we use on our own accord to determine if we will give in to temptation and willfully commit an act of sin.

Sin regardless of it's severity, or number of occurences always separates the person who has sinned from God, and until that individual confesses the sin they have committed they are in an unsaved condition.

 

[Jonah2005bt]

I think what Cody is basically trying to say is that we'll never be perfect.

He is not saying that we can go out and sin once we are saved.

I think he is applying the fact that because we are imperfect, we a bound to fall into sin.

And that we need to forgive ourselves if we do. And then try our utmost best not to do that sin again.

But you are right Pentecostal about following Jesus Christ & obeying His teachings. {John 14:21-25}

There is one thing I have realized in my life, in trying to do my best in my Worship to Our Almighty GOD, and that is, trouble seems to follow.

And this is how I learned the importance of prayer.

Because Satan will do his utmost best to distract us from GOD.

And with out GOD'S help we stand no chance at all in doing things right in HIS eyes. {Proverbs 16:9 & Jeremiah 10:23}

Unless we pay close attention to HIS WORD & Jesus' teachings.

For when we listen & obey GOD, then we are allowing GOD to direct our path to righteousness.

I have also learned that trouble follows even more if we are constantly hanging around with the wrong crowd & with those who could care less about GOD'S Word or The Holy Bible itself. {Proverbs 22:24 & 1 Corinthians 15:33}

Jesus also said;
Luke 11:28 But He said, "More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!''

 

[Chad]

Only God knows the identities of those who are "permanently saved", the ones whose names are written in The Lamb's Book of Life (see Rev 21:27).

I would agree that names written in that book will never be erased, but it is not ours to declare anyone "permanently saved". Only God can do that.
SLE

That's truth, amen brother.

We discussed this elsewhere also.

Its very simple, Salvation is guaranteed. However, Salvation comes from accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. You must follow Him, not just "believe" in words.

So, you walk away from Jesus, you've lost your Salvation. You walk WITH Jesus, you have Salvation secured by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:11-14

11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

I said this on page 10 and someone else had a similar analogy a few pages before my post.

So why has this thread turned into 16 pages of complexity?

You walk with Christ, your saved. You walk away, your not.

Do not confuse walking away with a believer who sins and asks for forgiveness sincerely. You do not lose salvation if you sin and are forgiven by confessing your sins. The main word here is "repentance" and common sense should tell anyone that repentance on earth will never result in a sinless lifestyle. It boils down to the heart and mind of the "new man" to want to follow and imitate Christ Jesus.

 

[spirit1st]

I think people CANNOT see the difference between there spirit and flesh?

No sinner belongs to the HOLY PERFECT CHURCH or the KINGDOM OF GOD!


ALL flesh dies because of only one thing? SIN

1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.


1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


THIS is our Spirit, once born of this seed !

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.
BORN -AGAIN is a new birth





Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

2Co 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.


Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.

2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


The QUESTION should be?
Could GOD have a evil child or evil in his family and household!

Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.


Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

I think? Many confuse the CALLED to the TRUE CHURCH or ELECT[the same]


Many are called few chosen. Meaning the church is full of the called , But only a few of the ELECT!
BY church I mean local churches and not the TRUE perfect church !

 

[spirit1st]

The GIFT of SALVATION is not conditional. It is A PERFECT GIFT FROM GOD!
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Now , I know few have it!
Still they are HIS and no longer there own!
Being, They are longer have the right of choice!
and That HE has accept the change of raising you up for HIS purpose which is to rule and rain with HIM!

You might say? Like you adopting a baby and then doing your best to raise the child?
Which is HIS case? HE CANNOT FAIL!

we could, But the ball is then in HIS court .He is in 100% control of us!

Salvation is us giving HIm 100% power over us!


1Co 5:5 To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

You see this guy was born again. he had sex with his step mom. he was cast out of the church.still he did not lose his salvation. he would not repent. i guess?he thought he was in love.

But in 2co. we see? HE repented and again was allowed to fellowship with HIS brothers and sisters in the LORD!

1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.


All scripture is true all fit together perfectly. if two appear to disagree? They do not. We must seek the correct understanding , that both will fit correctly?

They will Always!
We never pick one over another !


This might help someone?

Are this scripture talking about my spirit , soul[mind] or my body?

Is this scripture talking about the elect, Called[who can if willing , become the elect] or the world?

This scripture talking about MY spirit or HIS?

Is this the old testament or the new?

Because there was a GREAT change when , the LORD died and became the NEW!


In the old testament? GOD was dealing with mankind in mainly a fleshly type way


now in the new HE is dealing with us in our spirits and in an ETERNAL type way!


Also? the HOLY GHOST was given to each of us that we could without a doubt know TRUTH and have the correct understanding of all scriptures. HE waits 24/7 for us to ask.

 

[Pentecostal]

The GIFT of SALVATION is not conditional. It is A PERFECT GIFT FROM GOD!
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Now , I know few have it!
Still they are HIS and no longer there own!
Being, They are longer have the right of choice!
and That HE has accept the change of raising you up for HIS purpose which is to rule and rain with HIM!

So you believe the teaching that everyone will eventually be saved and go to heaven? (Universalism)

 

[spirit1st]

Of course not!
I believe NO one goes unless they have a real 2nd BIRTH.
This birth is of our Spirit and we never forget that moment.
It is just as profound as our first, but of our Spirit!

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


This is a true birth!

 

[Pentecostal]

Still they are HIS and no longer there own!
Being, They are longer have the right of choice!

IF it is true that mankind no longer has the right of choice (God is in complete control) explain then why everyone everywhere is not now saved, because according to 1st Timothy chapter 2 this is Gods soveriegn will.

Explain also exactly what or who determines what you do or say on a daily basis?

I've asked people who refuse to accept that they have a God given Free Will this same question and so far those that I have asked, have avoided the question, responding with their own questions that usually have no relation whatsoever to the subject.

Would love to read a quality explanation as to how a person can not have the right and ability of personal choice in their life.

Seems to me that if we do not have that right of choice, then we are nothing more than robots, or puppets in the hands of an unseen master puppeteer (God) who (if this is true) causes, and is responsible for, all the sinful acts of (unrighteouss) mankind, murder, perversion, stealing, lying, cursing, drunkeness, cheating, blasphemy, homosexualsim, etc. etc. etc.