Bob Carabbio
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It's nothing but an empty fantasy by somebody WHO KNOWS NOTHING about Pentecostals, and is obviously a cessationist by their theology.
Pentecostal Christians worldwide under the baptize of the Holy Spirit
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B-A-C
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I think one of the things that makes this difficult for some denominations is the in-filling of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I'll see if I can explain this without messing it up too bad.
John 3:3; Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
This verse in translated differently in different Bibles, some say "Born again", "Born form Heaven", or "Born of the Spirit".
But basically being born again means being born of the Spirit.
John 3:6; "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7; "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
Pentecostals believe you must have the Holy Spirit to be saved. You must be born again. - so OK, so far so good.
But Pentecostals believe there are two kinds of ways to receive the Holy Spirit.
You receive the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit immediately ( or shortly after ) when you initially get saved.
However, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate event. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is what gives you
the gifts of the Spirit ( Acts2, Acts 5, Acts 8, Acts 9, and Acts 19 ).
Some denominations such as Baptists, only believe in one Holy Spirit event, either you have it or you don't.
But in all five instances in Acts of people receiving the Holy Spirit, they had already been saved for some period of time.
Some of them had already been baptized in water many years before. Then they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at a later date.
So yes, having the Holy Spirit is a requirement to be saved, but speaking in tongues isn't.
1Cor 12:30; All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?
Paul is asking the rhetorical question here, not everyone speaks in tongues do they? The obvious answer is no.
Infilling vs Baptism in the Holy Spirit
The 120 people in the upper room in Acts 2. The 11 apostles (minus Judas) and Mary were there. Were they saved before this day? The apostles had already been following Jesus for 3 years. Were they ever baptized in the Holy Spirit before this day? OK, so that was the first time for anyone...
www.talkjesus.com
The Assemblies of God are the largest Pentecostal denomination in the world. Here is a statement from their official website.
lentz
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And what are you saying when you talk tongues?
I mean,exactly,what do you say? Word for word.
If you say you don’t know,you may be cursing God to his face.
Like Paul, I want to speak with understanding
Bob Carabbio
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Whatever the Spirit put in my mind. it's always different.
Not going to attempt an answer here. It's obvious that you wouldn't accept it anyway.
So Jesus LIED when He said we'd know His voice. thanks for claifying that.
When do you intend to start????
lentz
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If you have no idea what you’re saying when speaking gibberish,what do you get out of it? Of what benefit is it?
All I can see it being is a building up of the flesh, thinking you have really done something.
Another form of works.
So Jesus LIED when He said we'd know His voice. thanks for claifying that
We’re not talking about his voice,but yours. You’re speaking gibberish not him
Bob Carabbio
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1 Cor 14:4
So you see nothing.
Faith produces "Works", the Holy Spirit produces "utterances" of many different types re: Luke 12:11,12
Yup - the "Gibberish" HE puts there. You obviously have no concept of how "Tongues"/"Prophesy" operates. Enjoy your cessationism.
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Dear Brother,
Just by using the word "gibberish" shows a preconceived and lack of understanding of tongues on your part. I have never spoken in tongues in as much as I have heard it spoken, and then translated in open congregation at church. I have also had others pray over me in tongues, and have joined others in praying for others, though I myself did not do so in tongues while others did.
What you need to know is that it is not necessary for salvation, and so you can be saved and never speak in tongues! Alleluia.
However, just because I do not do it, or understand it when I hear it unless translated, doesn't mean I attribute it to the occult or some pagan practice. There is enough evidence in Scripture for it, and I will leave it at that.
Rereading 1 Corinthians 13 might be in order for you brother. I do this periodically myself as a reminder, that if I'm going to hold my hat onto anything besides Jesus, it is Love.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
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lentz
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TheWordIsOne
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greetings
I don't think so, I know what is speaking in tongues in the language of the Holy Spirit, it is an inner spirit, as I said Enochian Celestial Language is an ancient Language, That No Man can utter, King Soloman has this authority as it was given by angelic angels, and only
Prophets and his disciples, which the Holy Spirit gives them utterance is vocal vibration of the folds, which are two bands of muscle tissue in the larynx, voice box from the lings forced out passes over the vocal folds at high speed, they vibrate and produce sound.
The throat, mouth, and nose act folds act as resonators to shape the sound of the Holy Spirit and use tension on the trigger with the uvula, producing mimics of vocal percussion
this is a man speaking in tongues
And as for a donkey Numbers 22: 22 -35
and if you try getting God angry, maybe he will send you a mynah bird
the Holy Spirit uses inner vocal oscillation
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Dear Brother,
To you that may be the case which is fine for you and others. There are many unknowledgeable people out there as it pertains to the gift of tongues. On the vid. I love Dr. McGee and just finished a bible study on Romans by a facilitator using his teachings. However, the ignorance in the audio you provided is not his but yours!!! If you believe he said that speaking in tongues was "nonsense"! Then you didn't actually listen to the question or the answer he gave!!!
Which doesn't speak well of you brother. I know you have angst against the speaking of tongues, but do not let it get in the way of the clarity of understanding which in other words one can say is discernment.
Try listening to it again. Listen to the specifics of the question asked. Then see how Dr. McGee answered it. Then compare it to what you've read here where no one is saying that you have to speak in tongues to be saved! I know some are out there that believe that, but that is pretty much wrong, as you are in not believing that speaking in tongues is a valid gift.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
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TheWordIsOne
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Dear TWiO,
lol - so what did you receive from the video Brother Lentz provided?
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
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TheWordIsOne
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Socrates
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Take your time....Socrates
TheWordIsOne
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Proverbs 9: 10; Proverbs 27: 12; Proverbs 13: 16; Proverbs 22: 3; Proverbs 10: 5; Luke 8: 52-56
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Dear TWIO,
Proverbs 9: 10; Proverbs 27: 12; Proverbs 13: 16; Proverbs 22: 3; Proverbs 10: 5; Luke 8: 52-56
Thank-you for the scripture.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
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lentz
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At one time it was a valid gift.
It was to show the Apostles that people were in fact being saved.
If not for tongues/ known languages,Peter would not have known Cornelius and the others in the house had received the Holy Ghost and were saved.
Today it is faith and faith alone in the atonement of the blood of Christ.
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Dear Lentz,
First you agree that the audio, did not say what you thought it was saying. I won't pose it as a question, because it really speaks for itself.
Second, we're not talking about tongues being a component of salvation, just a gift of the Holy Spirit.
Third, I have heard many justifications on why gifts are no longer being given out, everything from "Scripture was completed so gifts are no longer needed" and the new one you gave above "It was to show the Apostles that people were in fact being saved.", ergo no more Apostles no more gifts.
Fourthly, I dare not dictate to the Holy Spirit what gifts He gives to whom.
Sadly, you are conflating Salvation and the speaking of Tongues in order to be Saved. Even the audio of Dr. McGee agrees that is a no go. Which I totally agree with!
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
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TheWordIsOne
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Greetings if I may
James 2:22-24 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God.
You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Romans 3: 20 - 26. Therefore by the deeds of the law, there shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by the faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe; for there is no difference; For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; Whom God hath set forth to be propitiation through faith in his blood, do declare his righteousness for the remission of past sins, through the forbearance ofGod; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness; that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. I
Romans3:24-26.Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of past sins, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness; that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
I Timothy 2:4.Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth?
So that God desired to save us, spend eternity with Him, and demonstrate his glory and love for us.
Ephesians 1:5.Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.
This means if we accept Jesus Christ as our savior, he predetermines we will become the sons and daughters of the living God.
Ephesians 1:6.To praise the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
God has something much greater in store for us.
Ephesians 2:6 -7. And hath raised us together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus; in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
God is saying he saved us because he loved us and wants us to be in heavenly places. As we read further in
Ephesians 2:7.That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
This means he will make us living trophies of all mighty God to reach down in the heart of sinful man and redeem us and save us, this is God showing his awesome love for all eternity, Forever and ever and ever. This is a demonstration of God’s mercy, grace, and of his love for us. For the justice of God is righteousness, for he is holy and righteous, he has no sin in him, and it is his nature to be holy, pure, and righteous.
This means if we accept Jesus Christ as our savior, he predetermines we will become the sons and daughters of the living God.
Ephesians 1:6.To praise the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
God has something much greater in store for us.
Ephesians 2:6 -7. And hath raised us together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus; in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
God is saying he saved us because he loved us and wants us to be in heavenly places. As we read further in
Ephesians 2:7.That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
This means he will make us living trophies of all mighty God to reach down in the heart of sinful man and redeem us and save us, this is God showing his awesome love for all eternity, Forever and ever and ever. This is a demonstration of God’s mercy, grace, and of his love for us. For the justice of God is righteousness, for he is holy and righteous, he has no sin in him, and it is his nature to be holy, pure, and righteous.
