Pentecostal Christians worldwide under the baptize of the Holy Spirit

[Charlie24]

The Samaritans in Acts 8, who had already been baptized in water, so they must have already been believers. But they hadn't received the baptism of the Holy Spirit yet.

The Disciples at Ephesus in Acts 19, who had also already been baptized in water, they also must have been believers. But they hadn't received the baptism of the Holy Spirit yet.

And Saul who became Paul who met Jesus on the road to Damascus, and was blind for 3 days. But didn't receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit until he met Ananias.

.. and yes, Cornelius also, who had been a believer for some times, but didn't receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit until he met Peter.

OK, the Samaritans in Acts 8.

No one is saying the filling of the Holy Spirit is not Biblical, with the evidence of speaking tongues, no one can deny that, it's Biblical. The problem we have is that's it's not a baptism as claimed by Mr. Wigglesworth. It's simply a filling as stated in Scripture.

In Acts 8, Peter and John were sent to give these Samaritans that gift. They were already saved, they laid hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit .

In most cases the evidence of speaking in tongues is recorded when this happens, most likely it happened here but is not recorded.

 

[lentz]

Dear Brother,
A crutch to stand? Yep, that's how most non-believers see us as needing a God/Jesus. Who without which, I could not stand for the sin in my life. \o/
Gosh, people see the Holy Spirit as many things, and some even as you say, even some believing it as a sign/confirmation of their salvation!

At least you acknowledge that it was valid at one time, and like the gifts of the Spirit valid for a sign back in the early church, and though you believe there must have been a cut off, whether it was the end of Apostolic succession, or the completion of Scripture/Bible as we know it, I can't say for certain. But be that as it may, because someone who believes in the continuance of this Holy Spirit gift and continues to believe it is given, is no reason to believe it to be a weakness instead of a strength or either for that matter. Rather a blessing if so. It is what it is brother! Looking at the gifts as something to compare now to then, to whenever, can lead to jealousies, envy which is not something the Body of Christ, should have without asking for forgiveness or strength to overcome!

Always remember that what we do is not by our own power but of God! So, always give Glory to God Brother Lentz.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

I know this is a waste of time,but thought I would give it one last try.
Hopefully it is not over your head

Is cessationism biblical? What is a cessationist? | GotQuestions.org

Is cessationism biblical? What is a cessationist / cessationalist? Did the miraculous gifts of the Spirit cease with the completion of the Canon of Scripture?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Curtis]

The Apostles, and disciples were not born again on the day of Pentecost it is when they were "endued with power" from on high to do the work of the ministry.

The disciples of Jesus were absolutely fearful for their lives and were living behind locked doors until Jesus appeared before them and said....

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

This is when they were born again, later Jesus tells them just before his ascension to his Father.....

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
To be baptized in the Holy Spirit is for "power" to preach the Gospel in the power of the Holy Spirit. Even Jesus needed this as he said....

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I know this is a waste of time,but thought I would give it one last try.
Hopefully it is not over your head

Is cessationism biblical? What is a cessationist? | GotQuestions.org

Is cessationism biblical? What is a cessationist / cessationalist? Did the miraculous gifts of the Spirit cease with the completion of the Canon of Scripture?

www.gotquestions.org

Dear Brother,
As long as you don't set the bar too high, I should be able to navigate it!
I won't get to it till later though. I have Bible class tonight, and these old bones are about to take a nap.

I am assuming that whatever it says is what you agree with.

I'll let you know what I think, though in Christ Jesus, some of things I've read, doesn't change the experiences I've lived/seen in my days. Nor when put against what Scripture has shown me through Holy Spirit understanding. I'm sure it is the same for you too.

God bless.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[B-A-C]

I know this is a waste of time,but thought I would give it one last try.
Hopefully it is not over your head

We can all find web sites that agree or disagree with what we believe. For every web site one side comes up with, the other side comes up with two.

It's best to use scripture to present a case. Something which some of these so called Christian websites do not always do.

 

[lentz]

We can all find web sites that agree or disagree with what we believe. For every web site one side comes up with, the other side comes up with two.

It's best to use scripture to present a case. Something which some of these so called Christian websites do not

The post I presented is full of scripture detailing cessation belief.
However I am sure you will find a way to explain them out of context

always do.

 

[Bill Taylor]

I know the history recorded in the Scriptures and I know when I was Indwelt ¿Baptised? with Ruah/the Holy Spirit. I was 25 days short of being 45 years old.

I was first spoken to by God at 7 am on 11/3/66 but was a self-professed Atheist until that point in Vietnam. I did not magically become a Christian but I did realize I was ten a Deist in search of who our Holy Father is.

I searched from '66 until some time in the Fall of 1989 before I discovered that Yashua, the one called by the Greek name, Jesus, was the Creator God. That fall, every time Dolly Parton would sing "He's Alive" I would break down in tears, resulting in one dumb prayer from me.

I promised Yahova I would leave the Juke Joints and go to worship Him after I did the New Year gig I had already scheduled.

That night the Bar Clock rolled over to Midnight and I sang the traditional New Year Anthem. As I sang it, I realized I was now indwelt with the presence of Ruah and needed to go home.

I do not speak in Unknown Tongues but what seemed gibberish in the KJV Bible now makes perfect sense to me as do all the versions to me. The Spirit has opened my Spiritual Eyes and Ears and has gifted me with the gift of giving and other gifts.

Folks can debate their entire lives about the matter but simple, irrefutable truth is always best.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I know the history recorded in the Scriptures and I know when I was Indwelt ¿Baptised? with Ruah/the Holy Spirit. I was 25 days short of being 45 years old.

I was first spoken to by God at 7 am on 11/3/66 but was a self-professed Atheist until that point in Vietnam. I did not magically become a Christian but I did realize I was ten a Deist in search of who our Holy Father is.

I searched from '66 until some time in the Fall of 1989 before I discovered that Yashua, the one called by the Greek name, Jesus, was the Creator God. That fall, every time Dolly Parton would sing "He's Alive" I would break down in tears, resulting in one dumb prayer from me.

I promised Yahova I would leave the Juke Joints and go to worship Him after I did the New Year gig I had already scheduled.

That night the Bar Clock rolled over to Midnight and I sang the traditional New Year Anthem. As I sang it, I realized I was now indwelt with the presence of Ruah and needed to go home.

I do not speak in Unknown Tongues but what seemed gibberish in the KJV Bible now makes perfect sense to me as do all the versions to me. The Spirit has opened my Spiritual Eyes and Ears and has gifted me with the gift of giving and other gifts.

Folks can debate their entire lives about the matter but simple, irrefutable truth is always best.

Alleluia, Amen Brother Bill!
Thank-you for sharing a bit of your testimony with us here!
I am blessed in reading it! Thank-you Jesus!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
P.S. I had not heard this before brother. Thanks for sharing this as well...

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The point I want to make is what lentz alluded to. All the great theologians, the ones whose work I've read, agree the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the moment of salvation that Paul spoke of in Col. 2. It's being baptized into Christ spiritually, an operation of God.

Specifically the point at which the Holy Spirit INDWELLS the person, and makes them a Born again Christian. Initially occurring at John 20:22 when Jesus ministered the Holy Spirit to the disciples, the results of which are recorded in .Luke 24:45.

However Jesus instructed the disciples to "tarry in Jerusalem until you're Endued with power from on high"(luke 24:49). "Enduement" is an EXTERNAL CLOTHING, not an indwelling.

SO - John 20:22 = the Holy Spirit IN the disciples, and Acts 2:4 is the Holy Spirit ON the Disciples. Two totally different events.

I has caused much damage,

Only to those who aren't familiar with what the Bible says. That's "denominational theology" for you!!

 

[Charlie24]

Specifically the point at which the Holy Spirit INDWELLS the person, and makes them a Born again Christian. Initially occurring at John 20:22 when Jesus ministered the Holy Spirit to the disciples, the results of which are recorded in .Luke 24:45.

However Jesus instructed the disciples to "tarry in Jerusalem until you're Endued with power from on high"(luke 24:49). "Enduement" is an EXTERNAL CLOTHING, not an indwelling.

SO - John 20:22 = the Holy Spirit IN the disciples, and Acts 2:4 is the Holy Spirit ON the Disciples. Two totally different events.

Only to those who aren't familiar with what the Bible says. That's "denominational theology" for you!!

No, it's not a denominational thing, it's a Bible thing!

If anyone has gone denominational it's the Pentecostals when it comes to the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I know this is a waste of time,but thought I would give it one last try.
Hopefully it is not over your head

Is cessationism biblical? What is a cessationist? | GotQuestions.org

Is cessationism biblical? What is a cessationist / cessationalist? Did the miraculous gifts of the Spirit cease with the completion of the Canon of Scripture?

www.gotquestions.org

Dear Brother,
Never a waste of time, when you're communicating with a Brother in Christ! Remember "Iron sharpens Iron"!

I have read it, and hope I have enough time to finish my reply to you before heading off to get my cup of coffee and hit my Bible class!

Nicely written, but like the last paragraph says: "The reasons stated above are reasons cessationists believe the miraculous sign gifts have ceased. It is important to remember, though, that cessationists believe God still continues to work through the other gifts of the Spirit. According to 1 Corinthians 13:13-14:1, we would do well to “pursue love,” the greatest gift of all. If we are to desire gifts, we should desire to speak forth the Word of God, that all may be edified."

I hope you understand that the writer of this, is taking a position that you have taken (assumption). The site in question believes this also to be true. To show this, here is the flip side of what you have presented from the same site that you used. In truth it is exactly as Brother @B-A-C has stated in his post. You can find many links/sites for either position. To be honest in finding this, I had not heard "Continuationism" as something to call those who believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still ongoing to this day, but I guess it's as good as calling Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus who believe in the ongoing gifts then calling them misguided etc. I mean better than what your insinuations of those who believe differently than you do are! lol

What is continuationism? What is a continuationist? | GotQuestions.org

What is continuationism? What is a continuationist? Did the miraculous gifts of the Spirit cease or continue?

www.gotquestions.org

I have to give it to the site, that they were above board in presenting a counter argument to something they do not believe in, with something written by one who does! Kudos! Still I gave the link here so you could check it out for yourself as well. I'm pretty sure you didn't look at this article when you did your search. Particularly interesting is towards the end, which reads "Addendum on Common Cessationist Arguments and Continuationist Responses".

I do not know your complete position as it pertains to all the Gifts of the Spirit mentioned in Scripture, so it is difficult to present my own experiences, or how you perceive the experiences of others who are of the Body of Christ as you and I are. If you believe they are all ended as the article you provided alludes to some believing, then I would ask, when people have been healed, or the testimonies here even, of healing of others. We know that it must come from God, because Jesus was, to me at least, clear in Matthew 12:25-31 NKJV concerning Satan doing things that are of God. The one part I would tell you is v31 and to take care how you would condemn others of their witness/testimonies concerning acts done by the Holy Spirit through them.

You can agree to disagree, but don't put to these as I've said "witness'/testimonies" words such as forgeries, fakes, etc., not that I'm saying that you have, that would put to question the workings of the Holy Spirit. You may not know; in fact, I probably do not know either, whether these told to us here are true or not. All I can go by is what is written here, and that those I am hearing these from are Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus! And that they give Glory to God, and not to themselves. And for that I rejoice with them!!!

Just remember, that a person's Salvation is not based on the Gifts of the Spirit being ongoing or ended, but only on God's Grace, in Jesus Christ!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
P.S. About time for me to get ready for my Bible class! \o/

 

[Charlie24]

No, it's not a denominational thing, it's a Bible thing!

If anyone has gone denominational it's the Pentecostals when it comes to the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

You know, it seems strange to me that I know literally hundreds of Christians all over the US, pastors, evangelists, missionaries, and everyday God loving members of Churches. These people I know personally, have conversations on the phone, when their nearby I go out of may way to have dinner or whatever just to talk about the Lord with them, in most cases to learn from them. Not to mention the hundreds of Christians I see here in town on a daily basis, who I know personally.

I can count on one hand all those I know who speak in tongues, who claim to have these gifts of the Holy Spirit, and tell me I can't do all that God wants of me until I'm "baptized with the Holy Spirit" with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. And every one of them is a Pentecostal.

So if you want to talk about a denominational thing, there it is.

 

[Curtis]

I speak in tongues and I am not a pentecostal. Been saved almost 50 years now, got saved in an Assembly of God Church, but I only went there one time. Never been back. I worked with a friend who asked me if I had been baptized in the Holy Spirit since I accepted Jesus as my savior. I ask where do I go to get that? He showed me a scripture that said…..

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

That was all I needed as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. I simply asked God by faith for the baptism in the Holy Spirit and as always the Lord gave me what I asked for and now my joy has been over flowing for decades.

 

[lentz]

I would suggest reading comments left by viewers.
They also contain good teachings

 

[Curtis]

If the gifts of the Holy Spirit have been done away and the miracles that God does through faith then faith has also been done away for it is only by Faith that these things work. All things are possible to those who believe (have faith)
That would mean there is no such a thing as salvation anymore as it passed away the same time the gifts disappeared.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

No, it's not a denominational thing, it's a Bible thing!

Translation: My denomination / "religious paradigm"/"interpretation of the bible" doesn't agree

If anyone has gone denominational it's the Pentecostals when it comes to the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Because I'm RIGHT, and anybody that disagrees with me is WRONG!!!

BUT HEY!!! it's only "theology".

 

[lentz]

If the gifts of the Holy Spirit have been done away and the miracles that God does through faith then faith has also been done away for it is only by Faith that these things work. All things are possible to those who believe (have faith)
That would mean there is no such a thing as salvation anymore as it passed away the same time the gifts disappeared.

You people always have to pervert the scriptures

 

[Charlie24]

If the gifts of the Holy Spirit have been done away and the miracles that God does through faith then faith has also been done away for it is only by Faith that these things work. All things are possible to those who believe (have faith)
That would mean there is no such a thing as salvation anymore as it passed away the same time the gifts disappeared.

No offence to you Brother, but I'm in the camp that says the completed canon of Scripture did away with tongues.

It seems some of the Pentecostals, Church of God and Foursquare believe that speaking in tongues is for everyone. Paul asks some questions in 1Cor. 12:29-30 that common sense tells us that's not the case.

"Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"

The obvious answer the Apostles questions is NO. Speaking in tongues was not given to all.

But yet many in those ranks say it is.

 

[Curtis]

No offence to you Brother, but I'm in the camp that says the completed canon of Scripture did away with tongues.

It seems some of the Pentecostals, Church of God and Foursquare believe that speaking in tongues is for everyone. Paul asks some questions in 1Cor. 12:29-30 that common sense tells us that's not the case.

"Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"

The obvious answer the Apostles questions is NO. Speaking in tongues was not given to all.

But yet many in those ranks say it is.

If you do not know and understand the difference between the ministry gift of speaking in tongues and praying in tongues then you will misunderstand that not every one has a ministry gift of speaking in tongues, so yes not every one speaks in tongues as a ministry, but they should as a prayer language, in the same way not every one are teachers, or prophets, or are Apostles.

 

[Curtis]

No offence to you Brother, but I'm in the camp that says the completed canon of Scripture did away with tongues.

What is that which is perfect? The scriptures? Certainly, the scriptures are perfect, but that is NOT to what the Apostle Paul was talking about!

He is talking about becoming a "mature" (perfect) man. Verse 11 says "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

For right now we are seeing through a glass darkly so we are not a perfect (mature) man yet, "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part ; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Is anyone perfect yet? No, then we still need the gifts of the Spirit with tongues with interpretation along with all the miracles that Jesus said would follow all those who believe!