Pre-trib Rapture: A popular but false doctrine

[Jonathan_Gale]

The old testament writers was speaking of exclusively of Israel. They knew nothung of the church age to even write about it. They didnt even mention another country. ISRAEL waited for the Messiah and then the Day of The Lord.Tribulation. Jacobs Trouble.
If Christ didnt put into plan an age,church,for gentiles to come in,time would have already ended by now.

The church is the Commonwealth of Israel. The term "church", ekklasia, means a called out assembly for a specific purpose, usually for business or political issues in the ancient Greek culture. It wasn't a unique name for the church in this regard, any committee or panel could fit this definition. God's church started with Adam and Eve. Adam was put down to a slumber, when he woke up, he saw Eve who was made out of matters taken from his side, that's the prototype for the Messiah and the Church. Jesus was buried in the tomb, when he rose up, he saw Mary Magdalene who was washed by the blood gushed out from his side, that's the NT parallel. The only difference is that God's church is not just Israel, but the Commonwealth of Israel, it's no longer limited to the Jews, as Gentiles are now adopted into God's church through Christ. Therefore, the "replacement" theory is a big misunderstanding, the church is not only God's original design for Adam and Eve, but also the real fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant - "all nations on earth will be blessed through you."

 

[lentz]

The church is the Commonwealth of Israel. The term "church", ekklasia, means a called out assembly for a specific purpose, usually for business or political issues in the ancient Greek culture. It wasn't a unique name for the church in this regard, any committee or panel could fit this definition. God's church started with Adam and Eve. Adam was put down to a slumber, when he woke up, he saw Eve who was made out of matters taken from his side, that's the prototype for the Messiah and the Church. Jesus was buried in the tomb, when he rose up, he saw Mary Magdalene who was washed by the blood gushed out from his side, that's the NT parallel. The only difference is that God's church is not just Israel, but the Commonwealth of Israel, it's no longer limited to the Jews, as Gentiles are now adopted into God's church through Christ. Therefore, the "replacement" theory is a big misunderstanding, the church is not only God's original design for Adam and Eve, but also the real fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant - "all nations on earth will be blessed through you."

So you believe in the replacement theory? If so,you definitely do not understand scripture. Israel is Isrzel and the church is the church. God is not done with Israel. Everything mentioned in scripture about "jacobs trouble",is pointed at Israel.
In the book of Revelation,everything it talks about is taking place in Israel. The antiChrist,thr temple,two witnesses,everything. The church did not replace Israel.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

So you believe in the replacement theory? If so,you definitely do not understand scripture. Israel is Isrzel and the church is the church. God is not done with Israel. Everything mentioned in scripture about "jacobs trouble",is pointed at Israel.
In the book of Revelation,everything it talks about is taking place in Israel. The antiChrist,thr temple,two witnesses,everything. The church did not replace Israel.

Didn't I say that it's a big MISunderstanding?

 

[lentz]

Didn't I say that it's a big MISunderstanding?

Yes you did. But there is still a big misunderstanding.
I really dont know what you mean by commonwealth. Jews can be converted same as gentiles into the church today. But when the church is taken out,then God deals directly with Israel.(i repeat myself).
Israel will live permanently on earth,as the church will spend eternity in heaven. Thats why Joseph Jacob wanted to be buried in Israel. They knew thats where they would be raised on that day. Abraham bought a cave in that certain place as a tomb. After tribulation,God will fulfil all the promises he made Abraham concerning that land. Those promises havent been fufiled as yat.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Yes you did. But there is still a big misunderstanding.
I really dont know what you mean by commonwealth. Jews can be converted same as gentiles into the church today. But when the church is taken out,then God deals directly with Israel.(i repeat myself).
Israel will live permanently on earth,as the church will spend eternity in heaven. Thats why Joseph Jacob wanted to be buried in Israel. They knew thats where they would be raised on that day. Abraham bought a cave in that certain place as a tomb. After tribulation,God will fulfil all the promises he made Abraham concerning that land. Those promises havent been fufiled as yat.

I mean the same thing that the bible means.

Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands, at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. - Eph 2:11-12

 

[lentz]

I mean the same thing that the bible means.

Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands, at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. - Eph 2:11-12

Ah yes. Thanks. But still israel and church will be handled differently in the end.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Ah yes. Thanks. But still israel and church will be handled differently in the end.

No, only the saints and the ain'ts will be handled differently.

 

[lentz]

No, only the saints and the ain'ts will be handled differently.

Thats not what scripture teaches concerning israel. Also,God made a promise. He doesnt lie. He said they would live in that land forever. Now to me,forever means forever. If not,how can we take his word on eternal (forever)life?
They have been in and out of the land. Never permanent. But in the end they will be.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Thats not what scripture teaches concerning israel. Also,God made a promise. He doesnt lie. He said they would live in that land forever. Now to me,forever means forever. If not,how can we take his word on eternal (forever)life?
They have been in and out of the land. Never permanent. But in the end they will be.

WE will be. There is neither Jew nor Greek, all are one in Christ.

 

[lentz]

WE will be. There is neither Jew nor Greek, all are one in Christ.

As far as the church age goes. The one thing we all have in common is sin. But still,after church is called out,its all about tsrael again.
Have you never notived after the 4th chapter,all through rev. the church is never referred to again?
When it uses the word Saints,its not speaking of church.

 

[ChristianConsFurryGuy]

The church itself is no longer present, but there will be post Rapture saints.

Don't forget that this is also the final week as prophesied in Daniel 9:24 for the Jews. The time of the gentiles has ended and the Jews are now the remnant that will take over.

In order for there to be a final week (7 years), the Gentile church has to be evacuated, leaving behind an unbelieving or perverted church and the Jews will finally recognize God and their true Messiah.

The Jews are still important and God's chosen people, let's not deny that!

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

As far as the church age goes. The one thing we all have in common is sin. But still,after church is called out,its all about tsrael again.
Have you never notived after the 4th chapter,all through rev. the church is never referred to again?
When it uses the word Saints,its not speaking of church.

Hence only the saints and the ain’ts - aka earth dwellers will be handled differently. I know that talking point, that John’s vision of the throne room in heaven is somehow symbolizing the rapture of the church, but nothing could be further from the truth. The “church” is too much of an umbrella term, to specify, God’s final church is that Great Multitude of all nations in Rev. 7, this is also known as the “fullness of the Gentiles;” then in 5th Seal saints died in the four horsemen judgement are crying out for vengeance, an angel tells them to wait, that indicates up until that point in Rev. 6, God’s church is still in progress. That contradicts the doctrine you hold on to, that God’s church is finished in 4:1.

 

[lentz]

Hence only the saints and the ain’ts - aka earth dwellers will be handled differently. I know that talking point, that John’s vision of the throne room in heaven is somehow symbolizing the rapture of the church, but nothing could be further from the truth. The “church” is too much of an umbrella term, to specify, God’s final church is that Great Multitude of all nations in Rev. 7, this is also known as the “fullness of the Gentiles;” then in 5th Seal saints died in the four horsemen judgement are crying out for vengeance, an angel tells them to wait, that indicates up until that point in Rev. 6, God’s church is still in progress. That contradicts the doctrine you hold on to, that God’s church is finished in 4:1.

It doesn't really matter does it?
I most likely wont be alive to witness it

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

It doesn't really matter does it?
I most likely wont be alive to witness it

Yeah, that's most likely what it means in Rev. 3:10, that the faithful Philadelphians will be spared from the trial.

 

[lentz]

Yeah, that's most likely what it means in Rev. 3:10, that the faithful Philadelphians will be spared from the trial.

Well doesnt rev 3:9,10 also prove the rapture?
He will keep them from the trial to come and he will come quickly,seems to verify

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Well doesnt rev 3:9,10 also prove the rapture?
He will keep them from the trial to come and he will come quickly,seems to verify

Or it simply means the gentile church will be gone, like, six feet under, which the Lord Jesus himself has experienced?

 

[lentz]

Or it simply means the gentile church will be gone, like, six feet under, which the Lord Jesus himself has experienced?

Well....under or upward it will still be gone before tribulation

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Well....under or upward it will still be gone before tribulation

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

 

[Bill]

John 17:15 ...'I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.'

Is the Rapture in the Bible? Biblical Truth or False?

Is the rapture doctrine Biblical? Do you believe it? If so you NEED to see this Bible study proving the rapture to be a false teaching.

www.end-times-prophecy.org

Lol you beat me to it. I was thinking about making another Rapture talk.

I have a lot of problems when it comes to the Rapture Theory most of which lay in the area of being a selfish mentality. And although people don't think of it that way, it really is, because you're only worried about yourself and no one else. What happened to the understanding that we are the servants and not the Masters.

Jesus gets down on his hands and feet and washes the feet of the Apostles. And he tells us that we need to follow hishim. Where is his example when it comes to pushing and shoving for taking a place in the rapture, I'm going up to heaven and I'm getting away from all this crowd and all this mess that's going on in the world. Didn't Jesus take up his cross and. Wasn't he nailed to it doesn't he tell us to follow him follow his example where in the Rapture theory is this example being Amplified.

Another problem I have with the Rapture Theory, the reading that is used out of the scripture to Define what the Rapture is is inconclusive. Meaning it says that one person will go up and another person will stay behind but it's not telling you whether or not the person staying behind is also a born again Christian. I think people jump to conclusions that just because the one person is gone and the other person stays behind that the one staying behind is not worthy, but that's not what the scripture says. In fact it doesn't say anything one way or the other. Now this is not including the surrounding verses this is only the part that everyone jumps to when it comes to the Rapture Theory.

As far as I'm concerned the Rapture is nothing more than a fantasy, that someone made up. To give the illusion of the greatest Escape before all the crap hits the fan.

What Christians are under valuing is this time from now till Jesus return will be the greatest Triumph that Christians can do in the world if they put their heart into it. Don't let the devil deceive you with this false teaching. Because when it comes to its fruition many many Christians that are firm Christians of this day will lose their faith over this one issue the rapture. Because they have put more faith into the rapture then they are putting into God himself.

 

[Bill]

Well you don't have to worry about it...Those caught up are the ones who have made themselves ready and are watching for Him...The rest will go through the tribulation period and meet Him on the other side.

I am already ready for the Lord's return but I have no faith in the rapture. And I'm looking forward to going through all the stuff that hits the fan and show the world Christ