Should we not Preach against "Fornication" and "Adultery" strongly in the Body of Christ and confirm those who commit such will go to HELL

[PloughBoy]

Is not this a part of "The GOSPEL According to JESUS CHRIST" and There is nothing to debate about it,

King James Bible
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Should we not speak up about these practices but with great effort, speak against it in kindness. Which is easy. But to get others to speak up against it, is were the problem lies! Now that is where the battle comes. To get them to Speak up!

 

[Andyindauk]

Hi Plough Boy,

IMO the answer to your question is no! Now are literally no examples of Jesus or any of of the the apostles preaching against sin. There are plenty of prophets in the Old Testament that did with very mixed results as did the last prophet, John the Baptist, his last recorded 'preach' was to a man steeped in sin, not a believer or even a Jew, Herod, in Matthew 14:3-4 and that makes this verse unique and so I believe that John was following God's instruction that would result in his arrest and so the spotlight would move from John to Jesus. It was a tactical manoeuvre rather than advice that John hoped would result in Herod's repentance - that was never going to happen.

So putting that aside, there were no New Testament sermons preached to unbelievers telling them to improve their behaviour and tone their sin down. If that's what you want to hear, get yourself down to the local mosque. No, our relationship with the outside world is too to make disciples, have a look at the Great Commission in Matthew 28. That is a much more powerful message than telling a fornicator to be chaste or an adulterer to break it off with their boyfriend / girlfriend.

There's plenty of advice and instruction to the believing church and individual disciples. One of the best examples is -

But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. II Peter 1:5‭-‬9 NKJV None of which would make the slightest bit of sense to a nonbeliever.

 

[Dave M]

Is not this a part of "The GOSPEL According to JESUS CHRIST" and There is nothing to debate about it,

King James Bible
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Should we not speak up about these practices but with great effort, speak against it in kindness. Which is easy. But to get others to speak up against it, is were the problem lies! Now that is where the battle comes. To get them to Speak up!

Yes we should,,, for me I never even knew it was a sin most of my life,,,,,,and I have been in church most of my life !! so yes its our duty to warn others.....I believe most do not consider it a sin that will wind you up in hell.

 

[Dave M]

So putting that aside, there were no New Testament sermons preached to unbelievers telling them to improve their behaviour and tone their sin down. If that's what you want to hear, get yourself down to the local mosque. No, our relationship with the outside world is too to make disciples, have a look at the Great Commission in Matthew 28. That is a much more powerful message than telling a fornicator to be chaste or an adulterer to break it off with their boyfriend / girlfriend.

Lots of people who call themselves Christians are actually not Christians at all, you can know this by the fruit in there lives,, or lack of it. they have not been born again

Should we not warn them, or what category do they fall in?? believer or non believer?

Do you think preachers should not preach on hell ??

 

[PloughBoy]

Yes we should,,, for me I never even knew it was a sin most of my life,,,,,,and I have been in church most of my life !! so yes its our duty to warn others.....I believe most do not consider it a sin that will wind you up in hell.

I know you right, I was hitting on everything that had a dress on in church, as a kid, Grown church women, looking at those big legs and hips, rubbing up against them, They called us "mannish boys" LOL You little Mannish, you better stop that! The girls be saying, why do nobody rub against me.
Church girls was easy. They chase you! But the Grown woman, be kissing you, hugging you, placing your head on their chest! Lip stick on your face, come here give me a kiss Wearing those tight skirts. We were a mess, as little boys in church! And On our way to heaven. Help us JESUS! We had those church women jumping up, who did that We was nothing but little devils! When we went to church, we was not looking for Jesus.

King James Bible (Romans 10:20)
But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

New King James Version
But Isaiah is very bold and says: “I was found by those who did not seek Me; I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”

We were not looking for JESUS we was looking at "Sookie"!

The meaning of the name "Sookie"
"Sookie, also written 'Sukey' or 'Suki', is a variant of the name Susan or Susannah, from Hebrew שׁוֹשַׁנָּה (Shoshána) meaning "rose" or "lily." Most famously, the name occurs in the English nursery rhyme "Polly Put the Kettle On."

PS... So no one gets the wrong idea what it means. They used that name a lot in church where i went. A southern name.

 

[PloughBoy]

Hi Plough Boy,

IMO the answer to your question is no! Now are literally no examples of Jesus or any of of the the apostles preaching against sin. There are plenty of prophets in the Old Testament that did with very mixed results as did the last prophet, John the Baptist, his last recorded 'preach' was to a man steeped in sin, not a believer or even a Jew, Herod, in Matthew 14:3-4 and that makes this verse unique and so I believe that John was following God's instruction that would result in his arrest and so the spotlight would move from John to Jesus. It was a tactical manoeuvre rather than advice that John hoped would result in Herod's repentance - that was never going to happen.

So putting that aside, there were no New Testament sermons preached to unbelievers telling them to improve their behaviour and tone their sin down. If that's what you want to hear, get yourself down to the local mosque. No, our relationship with the outside world is too to make disciples, have a look at the Great Commission in Matthew 28. That is a much more powerful message than telling a fornicator to be chaste or an adulterer to break it off with their boyfriend / girlfriend.

There's plenty of advice and instruction to the believing church and individual disciples. One of the best examples is -

But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. II Peter 1:5‭-‬9 NKJV None of which would make the slightest bit of sense to a nonbeliever.

New American Standard Bible
From that time Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
(Matthew 3)BSB
1In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea 2andsaying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”

Jesus came and told them about their sins and that is why they hated HIM! And that is why they "Crucified" Him because he told them about Their sins. and that they were going to Hell if they did not "Repent" and turn from their wicked ways and believe The Gospel "According to Jesus Christ" That is why they killed HIM. They hated Him without a cause" he only told them "The Truth". He is a "Witness of The TRUTH"

English Standard Version (John 18)
Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to THE TRUTH. Everyone who is of THE TRUTH listens to my voice.”

(John 15)
"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. 23Whoever hates Me hates My Father as well. ,,,,If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father.…

It is impossible to make a person a "Disciple " of Jesus if that person has not been converted. After one has become a Child of GOD, that person knows absolutely nothing about "Discipleship" for that person is a "babe" in Christ. After they have been "Born from Above" becoming a new creature, now you teach them how to become a student of Christ. For now that person has the Ability to hear and to see the "Kingdom of GOD". that new creature has to learn how to walk, run, stand up, he has to learn how to read the Bible, how to study, how to pray, That person has to be taught that he needs armor, and he has to be taught how to put it on, That new creature has to learn that he has enemies, and who they are, and how to combat them, He has to learn how to rest, and when to "Flee' instead of standing his ground, for it is a time to stand and a time to "flee".

He must understand that and learn about "Spiritual" warfare, he has to learn about the flesh, the world, and the devil. You do not teach a unregenerated person these things.

We have a command by Our LORD who is our MASTER, We do not live in disobedience. we are nothing but mere slaves, until our Coronation And only then will we receive full "Sonship".

This is a command:
"Do not give dogs what is holy; do not throw your pearls before swine. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."

And a lot of people in the "body of believers" do not believe this and a lot have live in Total disobedient to this "Truth" recorded in the "WORD of GOD" for this is a "Beam in the eye".

You do not train "devils" or goats, to be skilled in the WORD of GOD so they may look like sheep, so they have the knowledge to Lead true "Disciples" or sheep astray in order that they may stumble and fall. and if you train them, they will, They will "Appear" like Angels of light and they will deceive and they will grow up thinking they are sheep.

I know many do not believe this Truth. But it is "The TRUTH" for the Word of GOD has declared it. But many still have a Beam in their eye. If they do not repent that beam will remain there. You cannot see, until the beam is taken away.

 

[PloughBoy]

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Proverbs 22:15
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

 

[Dave M]

So putting that aside, there were no New Testament sermons preached to unbelievers telling them to improve their behaviour and tone their sin down

this is a stern warning here to all people, that if they dont stop sinning they are going to hell !!! the message is for EVERYONE

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Rhema]

this is a stern warning here to all people, that if they dont stop sinning they are going to hell !!! the message is for EVERYONE

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But hadn't @Andyindauk said "there were no New Testament sermons preached to unbelievers."

Was the book of Galatians written to unbelievers?

Rhema

 

[Andyindauk]

Hmmm .... let's remind ourselves of the question, Should we not Preach against "Fornication" and "Adultery" strongly in the Body of Christ and confirm those who commit such will go to HELL

Jesus came across several sinners during His brief campaign here on Earth, there was an adulterous woman, a bent tax collector, prostitutes, a crazy demon possessed man, a promiscuous woman to name a few.

Look them up and read these carefully, Jesus's response is to reach out to the sinner with an invitation and promises, He does not issue an instruction to become nice respectable people, 'quasi-Christian'. This is entirely inkeeping with His commission-
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17 NKJV.

Sometimes I think we can be more judgmental than our judge -
and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?” But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village. Luke 9:52‭-‬56 NKJV

OP has singled out two selective sins, blown up their significance as terminal, if do these you've just booked your ticket to Hell. This is misleading on several levels. 1.) The best definition of sin I ever heard is, anything less than God. Sin is binary, it has no shades, degrees or levels, it's either sin or it's Holy, there's nothing in between. You commit only one sin and suddenly you're in the same class as Adolf Hitler, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and Radovan Karadzic. There's no shades of grey, just black. 2.) Our passage to Heaven is not dependent upon what we do or don't do but rather our faith and belief in Jesus and our choice to follow Him. Wonderful works, even miracles in the name of Jesus count for nothing, -
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:21‭-‬23 NKJV. 3.) There's a danger that the proposition denigrates the power of the cross by suggesting that there are sins that renders the perpetrator outside of the reach of Jesus.

So, do we keep shtum about Hell, not mention sin and its consequences? Absolutely not. Jesus gave plenty of warnings about the fate of the unrepentant and so we should to. God sent Jesus to rescue me, if I go all coy about what Jesus rescued me from then that reders His rescue as unremarkable.

Our message is repentance, quit following your god, erotic desires, materialism, celebrity, family, power, adoration and whole host of other traps but instead, drop all that and follow or become a disciple of Jesus, otherwise you'll find those ambitions hollow and the consequences are horrific.

 

[Dave M]

Our passage to Heaven is not dependent upon what we do or don't do

you sound like you think you can live anyway and be saved. Saved people live according to Gods word, unsaved people live according to the world.. there lifestyle show there fruit

John 14:21
Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus came across several sinners during His brief campaign here on Earth, there was an adulterous woman, a bent tax collector, prostitutes, a crazy demon possessed man, a promiscuous woman to name a few.

And He told them they had to change or else. He forgives you.. if you repent. He doesn't if you don't. Luke 13:3-5;

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17 NKJV.

That's right, He's not going to condemn them on the Earth (world).

 

[PloughBoy]

What is the definition of sin, pertaining to New Testament Text. "Missing The Mark"

and John the Baptist declared,:
"But when John saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his place of baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?"
Maybe just: "Coming to him, is when you hear, He is in town" could be a "work of Repentance" and you hear His voice and you turn around and come His way"...........I read that a blind man said: "thou Son of David, Have Mercy on me" For we all know the Bible has said, That His Fame had went out.

"a blind beggar named Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, was sitting beside the road. ...When he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out “JESUS, SON OF DAVID, HAVE MERCY ON ME!” .........This man had heard about Him, and knew what was "required" to be SAVED and and To receive sight!

And i read that John the Baptist had said: "Are you the one, that is to come , or should we, Look for Another"?

And Jesus replied:
“Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have good news preached to them."

New King James Version (Matthew 3:8)
Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,
New American Standard Bible
Therefore produce fruit consistent with repentance;

Berean Study Bible
Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation without regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

Repent for The Kingdom of GOD is at Hand" "Turn around, from your wicked ways" and bring forth works worthy of Repentance. Change your mind.

Luke 3:8,10-14
"Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham…"

 

[Rhema]

He does not issue an instruction to become nice respectable people,

And yet "Repent" does mean to turn from such.

2.) Our passage to Heaven is not dependent upon what we do or don't do but rather our faith and belief in Jesus and our choice to follow Him.

And yet following Him IS a thing we do or don't do.

Rhema

 

[K9Buckeye]

Is not this a part of "The GOSPEL According to JESUS CHRIST" and There is nothing to debate about it,

King James Bible
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Should we not speak up about these practices but with great effort, speak against it in kindness. Which is easy. But to get others to speak up against it, is were the problem lies! Now that is where the battle comes. To get them to Speak up!

Will people who struggle with addiction get damned to Hell?

 

[Hekuran]

Will people who struggle with addiction get damned to Hell?

The choice between light and darkness, life and death is centred solely on the choice to surrender to the Lord Jesus and to follow him.

All of us follow imperfectly- some struggle with addiction, others with pride, greed, anger. But the number of times a person fails or falls down is not the fundamental issue, it's continuing to walk with Jesus that matters.

The direct answer is, struggling with addiction doesn't disqualify a person from the kingdom of God.

 

[Dave M]

Will people who struggle with addiction get damned to Hell?

I wonder,, because when you get born again you become a new creation 2 Corinthians 5:17 you are not longer in bondage, you have been set free Galatians 5:1 , so would a person who has been set free still struggle with addiction? my thought is maybe at first, but after 20 years if that person is still stuggling maybe person has not really been set free,,, or become a new creation.

God word tells us ,,,if we are doing certain things, we are not going to heaven,,. so in the below verse, if someone is a drunkard they are not going to heaven, that is a form of addiction ,,,is it not??
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Jesus tells us we must be born again to enter heaven,

John 3:3
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Being born again comes with proof that you have been changed. That you are a new creation. In real life that is a changed lifestyle. The Word Of God says those that practice sin do not enter the Kingdom of God,,,,,,,,,so is addiction not the very thing God words says about practicing sin???

Addiction sucks it is the worst thing in the world,, I know I was in it. But IMO it is NOT a disease !! it is a enslavement to sin, and the devil owns you,,, addicts hate themselves, they do things they no are wrong and will hurt others,,,,it is because they are enslaved to sin,, (not because they do not care) (not because they want to),, Jesus is the only one who can truly set them Free from the enslavement, and when Jesus sets them free they will see a lifestyle change.

The fuzzy part for me is if the addict has not changed in 20 years, but confesses Jesus as Christ is he saved,,,, I hope so, but I do not see any indication of it in the word of God..

The proof of being a changed Born again person who is on there way to heaven is shown in a person lifestyle, not in the persons words IMO I realize there is scripture that says Believe and be saved,, yet when I look at the whole bible,, and what being born again means, it really shows what believing looks like in a lifestyle not in words.

Never Give up on a addict !! Jesus can do anything,,, but hold the addict accountable and do not enable them..

Even if the addict quits using whatever they are addicted to,, with out Jesus they are still enslaved !! because they are quitting on there own will power and struggle with it,, and will give in sooner or later, the addiction is always on there mind. I was having lunch with a freind the other day, it was about 20 years since I saw him. We both were addicts,, we both no longer use,,,,now here is the point,,,, I asked him how he it was to be sober, he said he struggles with it every day and has to fight it,,, the difference Jesus has set me free from it.. and I do not even think about using anymore, my freind has quit on his own will power,, Jesus has set me free,,,, see the difference

 

[Rhema]

,,,,,,,,so is addiction not the very thing God words says about practicing sin???

Practice is a voluntary choice. Addiction is not.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

The fuzzy part for me is if the addict has not changed in 20 years,

So what's the deadline? 12 years? 7 years? 1 year?

He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.​

(Luke 13:6-9 KJV)​

I guess it's 4 years, eh??

Rhema

PS: Maybe in those 20 years, nobody dunged him.

PPS: Who are you dunging?

 

[Dave M]

So what's the deadline?

you must be born again to enter the kingdom if you are not born again by the time you die you will not enter the kingdom,,,,,,,no one practicing sin is born again. trees that do not bare good fruit are thrown into the fire..