He corrected nothing, and was not present at pentacost.
Speaking in Tongues and Gifts of the Spirit
- Thread starter First and the Last
- Start date
He didn't call out the Corinthian Church for the way they used tongues?
1 Cor. 14:26
"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying."
I guess what I mean is, he shouldn't have needed to.
Secondly, my complaint that no one should be boasting of praying with their spirit in an unknown language while at the same time praying with their mind, is a rational complaint.
To teach that such a thing is possible is to teach double mindedness being a good thing.
And for 3/4ths of he church which declares personal prayer languages have ceased, what paul had to say is irrelevant to them.
Have you ever entertained the thought that you may have misinterpreted the apostle?
His words came directly from the Holy Spirit. This is of course if you believe in the inspired, infallible Word of God.
Paul also said that "tongues will cease" the argument is when, both sides have convincing arguments, but someone is wrong.
You know as well as I, joestue, that neither side can be proven from Scripture.
Both sides are very convincing, but the fact is, someone is wrong concerning the ceasing of tongues.
You can argue this all the day long and can prove nothing but a theory.
If you're looking for that argument you can count me out, been there and done that.
B-A-C
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 11,227
In the same verse he said prophecy and knowledge will done away with.
1Cor 13:8; Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
So why pick one, and not the others? When will this happen?
1Cor 13:10; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
When did the perfect come? If it's speaking of Jesus, He came long before 1Corinthians was written. So, it's unlikely it was speaking of Jesus's first coming.
Prophesy and Knowledge are 2 of the 9 gifts of the Spirit.
Paul clearly says "when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." 1 Cor. 14:10.
The argument is what is that which is perfect?
Pentecostals say "that which is perfect" is the resurrection. Obviously these gifts will no longer be needed after the resurrection. Good argument, right?
The Fundamentalists say "that which is perfect" is the full canon of Scripture, we now have the New Testament to explain which came after the need for the gifts, making them no longer needed.
We can plainly see in Scripture where the gifts began to fall away while the New Testament Scripture was being written and circulated to the Churches. Also a good argument, right?
I said that in order to say this. Sometime back in another thread I mentioned the comparison of the Law of Moses and the Gifts of the Spirit used by some scholars. This will give an ideas to why part has ceased and not all.
In the Law of Moses, Christ fulfilled the Law and according to Paul this Law has stepped aside for the New Covenant in Christ. Paul makes it clear that the Law of Moses/the first covenant is not dead, but has completed it's course in pointing to Christ.
The Law of Moses is still alive in the Moral Law/ the 10 commandments and is still alive in the keeping of feasts for the Jews. Both will stand forever.
In similar fashion the Gifts of the Spirit are the same. Part of its need has vanished with the fulfilling of the New Testament Scripture, but part is still in service. I can go over the Gifts that are still in service and plain to see, but you get the picture.
MedicBravo
Active
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2022
- Messages
- 1,718
People must note that back then, most were illiterate.
As I and others have repeated over the years the Bible is in almost every known language.
It is the most popular and the most stolen book on the planet.
Currently, there's no need for tongue speaking.
Regarding healing, many are healed b/c of EMTs, Nurses, Doctors, Surgeons, etc. yet people "thank God" when themselves or others are healed b/c of Medicine.
God IS healing people through these people and Medicine. Yes, some have innate talents in this area while others do not.
As I and others have repeated over the years the Bible is in almost every known language.
It is the most popular and the most stolen book on the planet.
Currently, there's no need for tongue speaking.
Regarding healing, many are healed b/c of EMTs, Nurses, Doctors, Surgeons, etc. yet people "thank God" when themselves or others are healed b/c of Medicine.
God IS healing people through these people and Medicine. Yes, some have innate talents in this area while others do not.
Dave M
Loyal
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2015
- Messages
- 4,714
I am surprised you folks that say Tongues is no longer,,do not know people that you 100% trust that speak tongues, I serve with many folks that I have no doubt what's so ever they speak tongues. I personally do not, but would love to Praise Jesus !!
MedicBravo
Active
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2022
- Messages
- 1,718
How can you prove it?
Statements on the internet with no evidence? Blindly believing some randos who "claim" it? No.
There is one group of "Christians" who claim they can, at will, and even talk to snakes.
If something doesn't match to what God and the Bible say, it's not true.
1 Corinthians 14 Tongues, Prophecy, and Public Worship
(2-3) He who speaks ina tongue does NOT speak to men but to God.
(4-5) He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.
Doing it at church benefits no one b/c the lost and seeking at large are not in nor seeking churches.
(27-28) If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.
There are no prophets and haven't been for a very long time. Everything God had to say, is in the Bible. It is closed.
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
I dont, as they were in the first century.
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
The Bible tells us that the gift of tongues was for a specific purpose. It was to speak judgment against Israel. That judgment passed a long time ago. All of the gifts back then were given to confirm the apostles message.
B-A-C
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 11,227
Rev 11:3 "And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."
Do you think this has already happened?
Acts 2:17; 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
Do you think the last days have already happened? It says here that in "the last days" your daughters will prophesy. If prophecy is only for the purpose of writing and creating the Bible. Which books of the New Testament did these daughters write?
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
No. But, that's two people in the end times. That's not Christians down through the centuries.
Can you define "the last days". Peter is quoting from Joel. Joel doesn't use the phrase "last days." So, we need to understand what Peter means by "last days," Paul uses the phrase, "these last days" and applies it to his day. It would seem he's indicating the end of the Mosaic age and the beginning of the apostolic age.
Hebrews 1 (KJV 1900): 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Last edited:
MedicBravo
Active
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2022
- Messages
- 1,718
Yet we have some groups under the Christian banner that claim people can "learn" these gifts and use them whenever.
I know there's at least one delusional person on here who claims this.
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
If it has to be learned, I guess it's not a gift.
B-A-C
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 11,227
I believe in the gifts, but I totally 100% agree with this statement.
There are some churches ( one big mega-church in California especially ) that have seminars, and classes, and in some cases charge $1,000.00 or more to "teach" you what your gift is and how to use it.
I don't see this in the Bible anywhere, in fact I see the opposite.
Acts 8:17; Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:18; Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,
Acts 8:19; saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
Acts 8:20; But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!
Acts 8:21; "You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.
Acts 8:22; "Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.
I don't see anywhere in the Bible where someone "taught" someone how to know what their gift was and how to use it.
1Cor 12:6; There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1Cor 12:7; But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Cor 12:11; But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
... "as He wills". You don't get to pick your gift. Going to the "healing" class doesn't mean you have the gift of healing. God chooses which gift(s) you have.
I am also sure that if any of the gifts are still in effect, ( wisdom, knowledge, faith ) then all of the gifts are still in effect.
Every saved person has at least one of these gifts.
It seems some of these gifts are rare, but what I'm finding even more rare these days is...
Gal 5:22; But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23; gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Some people use this one single verse to build a doctrine on.
1Cor 13:8; Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
1Cor 13:13 But now faith, hope, love, these three will remain; but the greatest of these is love.
I wonder if that means that joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and self-control have ceased?
I'm beginning to wonder if the fruit of Spirit is still in effect. ( passive/aggressive sarcasm )
Matt 24:12; "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
Luke 18:8; "I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?"
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
Hi B-A-C,
I have a paper I've written explaining how I understand the gifts. Here's the link of you are interested in it.
