Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?.

[God's Truth]

Yes, Paul's words in Ephesians 4:11-14 were written DURING the laying of the church foundation; but THESE words that he wrote to the Church at Ephesus, are NOT ABOUT the laying of the foundation. These words are plainly about the on-going building-up of the Body of Christ....the church!
".... TO THE BUILDING UP OF THE BODY OF CHRIST....." - Ephesians 4:12

That was during the times the scriptures were being written. It was during the time the when prophecies and new knowledge were being given. It was the mysteries being revealed.

Have we ALL attained the unity of faith of which Paul speaks? Have we reached that maturity in the knowledge of the Son of God to the measure of the FULLNESS of Christ Himself?
"UNTIL we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ." - Ephesians 4:13
If not, then we, as the Body, still need all of those offices, and they have not ceased.
So you wont answer, because deep down you know that this scripture contradicts your false claims. Instead you will attempt to derail and distract again by claiming I am being taught by "false prophets" and "false apostles" (when you really know nothing of where I am being taught nor anything about who I may be learning from.)

Do you really think that speaking in tongues are still being given because it is bringing unity?

 

[God's Truth]

An apostle is one who did not learn from men what they know. That includes all of the sons of God (Christians) sent with the gospel .

We are taught by the apostles. We are not taught as the apostles were taught. The apostles are the ones giving the scriptures. We cannot do that.

They as us are warned of another false teaching authority other than our anointing teacher the unseen Holy Spirit . The word apostle does not mean "taught of God" rather than again "one sent".

The scriptures have Paul saying he was an apostle and not taught by men. Paul is giving insight to what an apostle is.
And, when Judas was replaced, it had to be a replacement that someone who was with the Lord from the beginning.

Apostles (sent ones) are sent with prophecy (the will of another)

There are prophets and apostles. They can be two different peoples.

Yes he is also first listed martyr who was prosecuted to death buried him under the corn field His blood like the righteous blood from him to Zacharias

Genesis4: 8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

Matthew 23:35 hat upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Those scriptures do not say Abel was a prophet. Now you even call Abel a martyr. You didn't give a scripture that calls Abel a martyr.

 

[vhusley]

Do you really think that speaking in tongues are still being given because it is bringing unity?

Yes.

 

[vhusley]

That was during the times the scriptures were being written. It was during the time the when prophecies and new knowledge were being given. It was the mysteries being revealed.

My friend, respectfully, do you know anything about construction? Jesus, being a carpenter, certainly did and I’m certain He passed some of that knowledge of how structures are built on to His disciples; and to the Apostles…..even Paul. Some of His parables and prophesies are evidence of this.

This, to which Paul was speaking in Ephesians 4:11-14, is not referring to the “laying of the foundation” of the Church. Rather, he specifically says it is for the “building up of the Body.”

A FOUNDATION is that solid groundwork UPON WHICH a structure may be built. I believe Jesus and thus Paul as well, would have known the difference.
His Church is STILL being built up on that foundation! We (the Body) are still being perfected in Christ (through the Gifts and fivefold ministry) UNTIL “we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;”

The foundation was “laid” by Jesus’ earthly ministry and that of the original apostles, yes, I agree with that…..but that was not the ONLY task of the fivefold ministry…..it was to continue to BUILD upon that foundation…..until Jesus’ returns.
Paul’s words confirms this in Eph 4:11-14.
Jesus’ words in Mark 16:15-18 confirms this as well.

The gifts of the Spirit and offices of Apostle, Prophet, and Evangelist have not ceased because they are still needed….according to scripture. and through the wisdom, discernment, and common sense God has granted us we should be able to grasp that.
If you can’t see this brother, I don’t know what else to say. I don’t know how much more plainly I can lay it out for you.

“But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.” - 1 Corinthians 14:38

God’s Word, not mine.

 

[Shaolin]

The prophets and apostles helped lay the foundation. The foundation has been laid. If anyone claims to be an apostle now, can they also claim to have laid the foundation? Think.

Once again you are reading into the text your own biased definition of what an apostle is. In the definition of the word "apostle" is no where found anything about laying a foundation. That is your personal perverted definition of the word...so, sorry, your unbiblical definition is rejected.

Try again.

..

 

[Shaolin]

You need to learn how to use that delete button. You are embarassing.

So, you cover over factual statements, by doing this nonsense above. Telling...very telling.

Care to try again with some Biblical facts, NOT what your fake bias tells you?

..

 

[Shaolin]

You cannot lay any scripture aside.

Look whose talking!!!!! You have set every passage aside that anyone here has shown you, all for your bias, NOT what the Scriptures actually say.

I am beginning to see that you are hopeless...

..

 

[Shaolin]

I wonder will “Jesus” and The People in. the New Jerusalem will be speaking in “glossolalia”?
I know one thing I hope we get it right before Jesus get back, because arguments has be going on for almost 2,000 years and this body is not in agreement whatsoever Talking about a divide kingdom. About a language. A language. A divide kingdom cannot stand. It makes you wonder is this language is of GOD. One thing for sure it divides and separates. And a little leaven spoils the Whole Lump.
And scripture cannot be broken.

I wonder have Christianity has become a “Democracy” and The New Jerusalem will have two groups in its kingdom liken to; Republicans on one side and “Democrat s” on the other.
And then will we put it to the vote. Since we will reign together with Christ in the 1000 year reign.

If you truly wonder these things...its no wonder that you...never mind...

..

 

[Shaolin]

Yes, Paul's words in Ephesians 4:11-14 were written DURING the laying of the church foundation; but THESE words that he wrote to the Church at Ephesus, are NOT ABOUT the laying of the foundation. These words are plainly about the on-going building-up of the Body of Christ....the church!
".... TO THE BUILDING UP OF THE BODY OF CHRIST....." - Ephesians 4:12
Are you unable to discern this for some reason or are you simply refusing to see it out of pride?



And I am going by the very WORD of God.......
......and from it, I provided scripture that you have yet to answer, address, or explain.....so I will ask again:
Have we ALL attained the unity of faith of which Paul speaks? Have we reached that maturity in the knowledge of the Son of God to the measure of the FULLNESS of Christ Himself?
"UNTIL we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ." - Ephesians 4:13
If not, then we, as the Body, still need all of those offices, and they have not ceased.
So you wont answer, because deep down you know that this scripture contradicts your false claims. Instead you will attempt to derail and distract again by claiming I am being taught by "false prophets" and "false apostles" (when you really know nothing of where I am being taught nor anything about who I may be learning from.)

I'm really a nice person, but I also cherish and strongly defend the Word of God.
Everyone is entitled to read God's Word and interpret it how they will (even wrongly).....to believe it or not....to accept it or not..
I will attempt to share truth with them....to witness to them, but if they appear to have a hardened heart, or refuse to receive any teaching or wisdom (other than their own) then I generally just stay quiet and leave them to it. However, if I encounter someone who is misusing/mishandling scripture in order to rebuke others wrongly for what they are practicing RIGHTLY.....I will speak out, just as I have in this thread.

Amen and amen...but you do realize that you are arguing with a brick wall there, don't you, VH?

Blessings.

..

 

[Waggles]

1Cor 3:9 For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building.
10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it.
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.
22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

2Tim 2:18 who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some.
19 But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

 

[Waggles]

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
6:2 and of instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes.

So all the different tongue speaking denominations have all the same doctrines?

 

[God's Truth]

My friend, respectfully, do you know anything about construction? Jesus, being a carpenter, certainly did and I’m certain He passed some of that knowledge of how structures are built on to His disciples; and to the Apostles…..even Paul. Some of His parables and prophesies are evidence of this.

This, to which Paul was speaking in Ephesians 4:11-14, is not referring to the “laying of the foundation” of the Church. Rather, he specifically says it is for the “building up of the Body.”

A FOUNDATION is that solid groundwork UPON WHICH a structure may be built. I believe Jesus and thus Paul as well, would have known the difference.
His Church is STILL being built up on that foundation! We (the Body) are still being perfected in Christ (through the Gifts and fivefold ministry) UNTIL “we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;”

The New Testament times were when the mysteries of the gospel were being revealed, it is when prophecies of the old testament times were being fulfilled, it is when scriptures were being taught and written down.

If one group of believers, one church in one town received information about the truth, they had to share that knowledge with the other churches.

The foundation is built on the foundation that the apostles, prophets and Jesus the chief corner stone built, and then the body, the building is built on top of that foundation.

A foundation is built with rocks, which means people.

The building is also built with rocks on the foundation, which is also about people, rocks are people.

The first Christians are the churches in the New Testament times.

Again, the apostle, prophets are the rocks laying the foundation, and the first Christians are the buildings being built up.

The first Christians are the people who were being taught and given the scriptures, they were the people to whom the apostles visited and wrote the letters to.

The foundation was “laid” by Jesus’ earthly ministry and that of the original apostles,

Paul too.

yes, I agree with that…..but that was not the ONLY task of the fivefold ministry…..it was to continue to BUILD upon that foundation…..until Jesus’ returns.

Those after the new testament times, the people being saved now, they are being built up in heaven.

The New Testament teachings were by letter and books from the beginning. We can see in 2 Peter 3:15-16 Peter recognizes what Paul writes as scripture.


2 Peter 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.


Much of the New Testament is letters from the apostles to the churches, and the apostles commanded the churches to share the letters.


Colossians 4:16 After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea.

1 Thessalonians 5:27 I charge you before the Lord to have this letter read to all the brothers and sisters.


Again, the believers from the beginning used these books and letters from the start. That is what determined these books as scripture.

The gifts of the Spirit and offices of Apostle, Prophet, and Evangelist have not ceased because they are still needed….according to scripture. and through the wisdom, discernment, and common sense God has granted us we should be able to grasp that.
If you can’t see this brother, I don’t know what else to say. I don’t know how much more plainly I can lay it out for you.

There are no more churches as there were during the new testament times.

We needed the foundation AND the churches built on the foundation in order to have the truth we have today.

We are, though, when saved, being built up in heaven.

Hebrews 11:10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

 

[God's Truth]

Once again you are reading into the text your own biased definition of what an apostle is. In the definition of the word "apostle" is no where found anything about laying a foundation. That is your personal perverted definition of the word...so, sorry, your unbiblical definition is rejected.

Try again.

..

Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.


The churches in the new testament times were the firsts, and they were built upon the foundation.

The foundation was laid a long time ago and the first churches were needed to be a place to whom the scriptures and teaching were made, for us all.

Remember, rocks are people.

It takes rocks/people to lay the foundation, and, it is people who ares rocks building up the buildings.

The rocks/people/buildings/churches in the new testament times were the people getting the gospel message revealed to for the first time.

We are no longer being given new scriptures and prophecies and revelations to this day, for it was all done in the New Testament times.

Those getting saved now are being built into the heavenly Jerusalem, but we are not having NEW prophecies and new knowledge with the help of tongues, as was during the laying of the foundation times and the first buildings being built up.

 

[God's Truth]

So, you cover over factual statements, by doing this nonsense above. Telling...very telling.

Care to try again with some Biblical facts, NOT what your fake bias tells you?

..

smh

 

[God's Truth]

Amen and amen...but you do realize that you are arguing with a brick wall there, don't you, VH?

Blessings.

..

A rock you mean? lol

 

[vhusley]

The New Testament times were when the mysteries of the gospel were being revealed, it is when prophecies of the old testament times were being fulfilled, it is when scriptures were being taught and written down.

If one group of believers, one church in one town received information about the truth, they had to share that knowledge with the other churches.

The foundation is built on the foundation that the apostles, prophets and Jesus the chief corner stone built, and then the body, the building is built on top of that foundation.

A foundation is built with rocks, which means people.

The building is also built with rocks on the foundation, which is also about people, rocks are people.

The first Christians are the churches in the New Testament times.

Again, the apostle, prophets are the rocks laying the foundation, and the first Christians are the buildings being built up.

The first Christians are the people who were being taught and given the scriptures, they were the people to whom the apostles visited and wrote the letters to.


Paul too.

Those after the new testament times, the people being saved now, they are being built up in heaven.

The New Testament teachings were by letter and books from the beginning. We can see in 2 Peter 3:15-16 Peter recognizes what Paul writes as scripture.


2 Peter 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.


Much of the New Testament is letters from the apostles to the churches, and the apostles commanded the churches to share the letters.


Colossians 4:16 After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea.

1 Thessalonians 5:27 I charge you before the Lord to have this letter read to all the brothers and sisters.


Again, the believers from the beginning used these books and letters from the start. That is what determined these books as scripture.

There are no more churches as there were during the new testament times.

We needed the foundation AND the churches built on the foundation in order to have the truth we have today.

We are, though, when saved, being built up in heaven.

Hebrews 11:10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

Sigh.

 

[vhusley]

The first Christians are the churches in the New Testament times.

[/QUOTE]
Oh brother……
Our churches ARE in the “New Testament times” as you put it. We’re certainly not in the “Old Testament times.” What other “times” have we entered into thus far? Are we not still living under the New Covenant? Is this not still the Church Age?

Those after the new testament times, the people being saved now, they are being built up in heaven.

[/QUOTE]
After?? What are you talking about??
WE ARE IN New Testament times NOW my friend. Is there some new covenant here on earth that that’s happened between God and man since Jesus that no one but you knows about??
You are either adding to scripture or misinterpreting it wildly friend.

 

[Garee]

We are taught by the apostles. We are not taught as the apostles were taught. The apostles are the ones giving the scriptures. We cannot do that.

apostles sent ones with no other meaning added not venerable ones or intelligent ones.

They as us had the awesome responsibility to plant the incorruptible born again seed of Christ in a living hope of being moved to work with Christ yoked with him. And water it with the water of the word the doctrine of God that fall like rain causing growth here or there.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


Deuteronomy 32: Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

The same water of the word he washes his bride the church with and husbands are directed to wash there wives with (the will of God) .

1 Corinthians 3: 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

The definition "sent one" was changed to mean venerable one according to a law of the fathers (I heard it through the fathers grapevine) False veneration power.

God can move a Ass to stop the madness of a false apostle like that of Balaam by putting his understanding in the mouth of any creature .

Abel the first recorded apostle and martyr. The time of reformation (1st century) came over two thousand years ago. God is still sending out apostles with his declarations as it is written The gospel of His peace His rest.

 

[Garee]

1Cor 3:9 For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building.
10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it.
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.
22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

2Tim 2:18 who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some.
19 But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

Yes The Lord knows those who are his. He speaks in there langue or tongue giving them his understanding.

How could we know unless he gives us His understanding or ears to hear ?

Clanging brass cymbals or peeps' and moans in the night offer no confidence , as a mystery it simply leaves a person wondering, wondering, wondering ???

The Christian foundation is built on the revealed will of God and not falling backward slain in the spirit hoping a few understand the moans and will catch and let down a person easy giving them comfort .

It would seem to be a dangerous situation which could end with 911 if there were no interpreter moved .

No such thing as sign gifts. Spiritual unseen gifts yes.