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The 10 commandments - revisted

The Bible says Christ's followers are dead to sin, i.e. they and sin no longer have a
joined-at-the-hip relationship. The reason for that is because God counts them as joint
participants in Christ's crucifixion.

Rom 6:3 . . Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus
were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

Rom 6:7-11 . . For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with
Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: knowing that Christ being raised
from the dead dies no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he
died, he died unto sin once: but in that he lives, he lives unto God. Likewise reckon
you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus
Christ our Lord.

Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

Col 3:2-3 . . Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For
you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
_
 
Here’s the huge misunderstanding. Either the Ten Commandments or the Great commandment is not just laws to observe or rules to follow, but bonds that maintain a loving, healthy relationship. “Love the Lord our God” is a vertical relationship between you and God, “love your neighbor as yourself” is a horizontal relationship between you and other people. A “commandment” is between master and servant, the bond in a relationship is much more than that, you put the other’s feelings and needs before your own, that’s why under the new covenant, the Ten Commandments are not written in the stones, but in our hearts, see Jeremiah 31:31-34. It’s never about behavior modification as a lot of people think. The word “Torah”, actually, means TEACHING and INSTRUCTION before law and rules.
Hello @Jonathan_Gale,

My entry was seeking @B-A-C's confirmation that I had understood what he was trying to say: but I thank you for your words of instruction :). Yet it does not have any application to myself, and the calling I have been called into, as a member of the Body of Christ.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
So far all of the verses given in the previous post are from the Old Testament. In fact, they are from
the first 5 books of the Bible. Are they mentioned in the New testament at all?

Matt 5:21; "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.'
Matt 19:18; Then he *said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS;
Mark 10:19; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
Luke 18:20; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
Rom 13:9; For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Jas 2:11; For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER." Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Matt 5:27; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';
Eph 4:28; He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need.

Matt 15:4; "For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.'
Matt 19:19; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Mark 7:10; "For Moses said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';
Eph 6:2; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise),

Matt 22:37; And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Mark 12:30; AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'
Luke 10:27; And he answered, "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

All of them are mentioned by Jesus and the Apostles except for one. Keeping the Sabbath. It is mentioned by the Pharisees.
But that also is another subject.

You could say the 10 commandments, were reduced down to just two in the New Testament. Both Jesus and Paul say something to
this effect.

Matt 22:37; And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Matt 22:38; "This is the great and foremost commandment.
Matt 22:39; "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
Matt 22:40; "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."


Jesus says the whole Law comes down to these two commandments.

Rom 13:8; Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9; For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Rom 13:10; Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Paul says loving your neighbor is fulfilling the Law. This could be turned around to say, if you're committing
adultery with your neighbors wife, murdering them, stealing from them, or coveting them... then you aren't loving them.

But wait a minute, doesn't the New Testament say we aren't under the Law anymore?
... to be continued ...
Pretty sure God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit doesn't stutter.
So what if the Commandments were given in the OT??
Nothing needs to be repeated later for it to be valid, important, or relevant.
If anything the Ten are the necessary basis to create any culture and thrive.
 
Subject Heading:- 'The 10 Commandments - Revisted'

'For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness
to every one that believeth.'
(Rom 10:4)

Hello @B-A-C,

I have read through your posts, and understand what you are saying about the necessity to observe the 10 commandments. As I read my thoughts went to Romans 10:4 (above), and looking back to verses one & two, Paul is expressing his heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel. It was that they might be saved. For they were ignorant of God's righteousness, and were going about to establish their own righteousness, and not submitting themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Now anyone who has come to know the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour, through faith in the all-sufficient sacrifice for sin that was made by Christ on the cross, will not be looking to the ten commandments as a means of salvation: Or of attaining unto righteousness; will they? For the righteousness of God has already been imputed unto them: and this is not what you are advocating either, are you? NO! If I am correct, what you are saying is that the ten commandments should be the measure by which we measure our life and witness once saved. They should be incorporated into our manner of life, in order to live a life which is honouring to the Lord in loving our neighbour as ourselves, but NOT as a means of attaining unto righteousness, Is this so?

'For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness
to every one that believeth.'
(Rom 10:4)

'For we are His workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained
that we should walk in them.'
(Eph 2:10)

* Have I interpreted your intention correctly? :)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Hello @B-A-C,

In the post quoted above, I asked you a question, which I would appreciate an answer to,

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Now anyone who has come to know the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour, through faith in the all-sufficient sacrifice for sin that was made by Christ on the cross, will not be looking to the ten commandments as a means of salvation: Or of attaining unto righteousness; will they? For the righteousness of God has already been imputed unto them: and this is not what you are advocating either, are you? NO! If I am correct, what you are saying is that the ten commandments should be the measure by which we measure our life and witness once saved. They should be incorporated into our manner of life, in order to live a life which is honouring to the Lord in loving our neighbour as ourselves, but NOT as a means of attaining unto righteousness, Is this so?

'For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness
to every one that believeth.'
(Rom 10:4)

'For we are His workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained
that we should walk in them.'
(Eph 2:10)

First let me say, no one gets saved without Jesus. He is an absolute requirement. John 14:6; Acts 4:12; I can obey the commandments all day long and that won't get me into heaven without Jesus.
But not obeying the commandments, even after you become a believer will certainly keep you out of heaven.

What is the opposite of righteousness? Unrighteousness or lawlessness.

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'


These people called Jesus "Lord" obviously they believed in Him. Why did He tell the people who "practice lawlessness" to depart from Him?

I believe there is a "before" and an "after" dividing line. A "before" you are saved, and an "after" you are saved. Only faith can get you saved.
But disobedience and sin can get you unsaved. I believe in grace and mercy, and you don't automatically get disqualified just because you committed a sin.
But if you commit enough premeditated sin over a period of time, and make it a lifestyle, you can get unsaved.

I don't believe Rom 10:4; is talking about the commandments, it is talking about ceremonial law. ( circumcision, priests, stoning, animal sacrifice, etc... )
A lot of Romans is about the ceremonial law.

Rom 2:25; For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26; So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
Rom 2:27; And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
Rom 2:28; For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
Rom 2:29; But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
Rom 3:1; Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision?
Rom 4:11; and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,
Rom 4:12; and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.
Rom 15:8; For I say that Christ has become a servant to the circumcision on behalf of the truth of God to confirm the promises given to the fathers,
Rom 3:30; since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
Rom 4:9; Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Rom 4:10; How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised;
Rom 4:11; and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,

( and those are just the circumcision verses )

Rom 10:1; Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.
Rom 10:2; For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
Rom 10:3; For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

This verse could be taken a number of ways. But it says here, these people didn't know about God's righteousness. They made up their own laws ( not God's laws )
and they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. They did not submit to God's laws ( because they didn't know about them ).

Rom 10:4; For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Rom 10:5; For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.
Rom 10:6; But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down),
Rom 10:7; or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."
Rom 10:8; But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
Rom 10:9; that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Many take verse 9 here to say all I have to do is believe there was a guy named Jesus and He got raised from the dead, and I'm good to go.
But believing means believing in everything about Jesus, what He did and what He said. What He taught and obeying those things. If I believe in Jesus, I believe in everything He said and taught.
( including obeying the commandments )

Rom 10:11; For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
Rom 10:12; For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
Rom 10:13; for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14; How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15; How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
Rom 10:16; However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"
Rom 10:17; So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Faith isn't simply hearing about a man named Jesus, faith comes from "Hearing the word (teachings) of Christ.

Rom 10:18; But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."
Rom 10:19; But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, "I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS BY THAT WHICH IS NOT A NATION, BY A NATION WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WILL I ANGER YOU."
Rom 10:20; And Isaiah is very bold and says, "I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME."
Rom 10:21; But as for Israel He says, "ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."

The Jews believed in God as a nation, but they didn't obey Him. God was reaching out to them, but they were "disobedient and obstinate".

Rom 11:19; You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22; Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Matt 5:20; "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

Matt 13:41; "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
 
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B-A-C said:-
Why did He tell the people who "practice lawlessness" to depart from Him?
'Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but He that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord,
.. have we not prophesied in thy name?
.... and in thy name have cast out devils?
...... and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
depart from me, ye that work iniquity.'
(Matthew 7:21-23)

Hello B-A-C,

In the KJV the words are not, 'ye that practice lawlessness,' but, 'ye that work iniquity'. The people the Lord was speaking to here were not believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, for they were not doing the will of the Father. They said that they had prophesied in His name, and cast out devils in His name, and had done many wonderful works in His name: but obviously what God required of them they were not doing; which makes me think of John 6:28-29:-

' Then said they unto Him,
What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him Whom He hath sent.'
(John 6:28-29)

* They obviously did not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ: otherwise He would not have told them to depart from Him.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
In the KJV the words are not, 'ye that practice lawlessness,' but, 'ye that work iniquity'.

What is the difference between lawlessness and iniquity?
The Greek word here is ...

anomia
an-om-ee'-ah
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.
Total KJV occurrences: 15

* They obviously did not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ: otherwise He would not have told them to depart from Him.

Yet they did things "in His name". So they at least "thought" they believed in Him. What is the difference between someone who "thinks" they believe in Jesus, and someone who actually "knows" Jesus?
Also they called Jesus "Lord, Lord". Why would they call someone they don't believe in "Lord"?

1Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1Jn 2:5; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:

Tit 1:16; They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.
 
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First let me say, no one gets saved without Jesus. He is an absolute requirement. John 14:6; Acts 4:12; I can obey the commandments all day long and that won't get me into heaven without Jesus.
But not obeying the commandments, even after you become a believer will certainly keep you out of heaven.

What is the opposite of righteousness? Unrighteousness or lawlessness.

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'


These people called Jesus "Lord" obviously they believed in Him. Why did He tell the people who "practice lawlessness" to depart from Him?
Hello there, @B-A-C

I have sought to answer this question in reply #28.

I believe there is a "before" and an "after" dividing line. A "before" you are saved, and an "after" you are saved. Only faith can get you saved.disobedience and sin can get you unsaved. I believe in grace and mercy, and you don't automatically get disqualified just because you committed a sin.
But if you commit enough premeditated sin over a period of time, and make it a lifestyle, you can get unsaved.
* This point of view is not Scriptural, B-A-C.
I don't believe Rom 10:4; is talking about the commandments, it is talking about ceremonial law. ( circumcision, priests, stoning, animal sacrifice, etc... )
A lot of Romans is about the ceremonial law.
Rom 2:25; For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26; So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
Rom 2:27; And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
Rom 2:28; For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
Rom 2:29; But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
Rom 3:1; Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision?
Rom 4:11; and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,
Rom 4:12; and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.
Rom 15:8; For I say that Christ has become a servant to the circumcision on behalf of the truth of God to confirm the promises given to the fathers,
Rom 3:30; since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
Rom 4:9; Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Rom 4:10; How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised;
Rom 4:11; and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,

( and those are just the circumcision verses )

Rom 10:1; Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.
Rom 10:2; For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
Rom 10:3; For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

This verse could be taken a number of ways. But it says here, these people didn't know about God's righteousness. They made up their own laws ( not God's laws )
and they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. They did not submit to God's laws ( because they didn't know about them ).
* No, They were not making up their own laws, simply seeking to obtain their own righteousness by means of the law, not having heard of the righteousness of God which is by faith.
Rom 10:4; For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Rom 10:5; For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.
Rom 10:6; But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down),
Rom 10:7; or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."
Rom 10:8; But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
Rom 10:9; that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Many take verse 9 here to say all I have to do is believe there was a guy named Jesus and He got raised from the dead, and I'm good to go.
But believing means believing in everything about Jesus, what He did and what He said. What He taught and obeying those things. If I believe in Jesus, I believe in everything He said and taught.
( including obeying the commandments )
* That is not what the Scripture says.
Rom 10:11; For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
Rom 10:12; For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
Rom 10:13; for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14; How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15; How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
Rom 10:16; However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"
Rom 10:17; So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Faith isn't simply hearing about a man named Jesus, faith comes from "Hearing the word (teachings) of Christ.
* 'But these are written,
that ye might believe
that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God;
and that believing
ye might have life
through His name.;
(John 20:31)
Rom 10:18; But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."
Rom 10:19; But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, "I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS BY THAT WHICH IS NOT A NATION, BY A NATION WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WILL I ANGER YOU."
Rom 10:20; And Isaiah is very bold and says, "I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME."
Rom 10:21; But as for Israel He says, "ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."

The Jews believed in God as a nation, but they didn't obey Him. God was reaching out to them, but they were "disobedient and obstinate".

Rom 11:19; You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22; Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Matt 5:20; "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

Matt 13:41; "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
* B-A-C, with respect you quote a great many verses, but taken out of context you can make them mean anything you like. Each has to be viewed in the light of it's context, I'm sure you will agree. I am not able to do that at the moment, but one thing I do know, and that is that - the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ has the righteousness of God imputed to Him: 'for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes' (Rom 10:4 ).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
'For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound.
But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death,
even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life
by Jesus Christ our Lord.'
(Rom 5:19-21)
 
'For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound.
But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death,
even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life
by Jesus Christ our Lord.'
(Rom 5:19-21)

It's true, no one will be righteous enough without Jesus. But grace doesn't cover everything, it is possible to fall short of grace.

Heb 12:15; See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

Sinners don't get defiled, they are already defiled.

Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

In response to the Romans 5 passage you posted above, Paul goes on to say...

Rom 6:1; What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
Rom 6:2; May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
Rom 6:3; Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
Rom 6:4; Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5; For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
Rom 6:6; knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
Rom 6:7; for he who has died is freed from sin.

Are we supposed to ignore sin and keep on sinning just because there is grace? Paul says "May it never be!!" If you are a Christian you have died to sin.
Your old self was crucified "in order that our body of sin might be done away with". We are no longer slaves to sin, sin has no power over us. We have no excuse to sin.
If you have truly crucified the old self, you are free from the power of sin.

Rom 6:11; Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:12; Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
Rom 6:13; and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
Rom 6:14; For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
Again Paul says "May it never be!"
Rom 6:16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

B-A-C, with respect you quote a great many verses, but taken out of context you can make them mean anything you like.

Your post was from Romans 10, all the verses in my reply were from Romans 10. How is that out of context?
A theology needs to agree with "all" the Bible. Not just parts of it. My theology agrees with every verse you've posted. I reply in context.
Just like this post, you posted the last few verses of Romans 5, I continued on with Romans 6. In context.
This is 3 times I've responded to you using the context of your scriptures. You have yet to reply to me in the context of mine.
You reply with verses from other books of the Bible every time. That's OK, I use other books in my responses as well.
but I almost always reply with scripture from the chapter (or in this case the next chapter, because you ended at the last verse).
 
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I have thus far been unable to locate a ten-commandment rule prohibiting
dishonesty. The 9th forbids perjury, but not specifically dishonesty like Lev 19:11.
_
 
Well. Isn't bearing false witness against your neighbor included -- or not stealing. Or not committing adultery because there would probably be a certain amount of lying involved.
 
I have thus far been unable to locate a ten-commandment rule prohibiting
dishonesty. The 9th forbids perjury, but not specifically dishonesty like Lev 19:11.
_
Galatians 5:13 For ye, brethren, were called for freedom; only use not the freedom for an occasion to the flesh, but through love be bondmen one to another.
14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in the, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 
@ Waggles -- there is also Matthew 22: 37-.40. "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul , and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment . Snd thr second is like it ......"
 
Galatians 5:13 For ye, brethren, were called for freedom; only use not the freedom for an occasion to the flesh, but through love be bondmen one to another.
14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in the, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Don't see it here. Please copy the whole passage, not just one verse.

Gal 5:13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Gal 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.
Gal 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God
 
@ Waggles -- there is also Matthew 22: 37-.40. "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul , and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment . Snd thr second is like it ......"

Here either...

Mat 22:36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
Mat 22:37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Mat 22:38 "This is the great and foremost commandment.
Mat 22:39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
Mat 22:40 "On
these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."
 
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