The 10 commandments - revisted

[Beetow]

Bible Christianity is a lethal religion. In some mysterious way-- which I have never
yet been able to fully understand --God accounts Christ's people as joint
participants in his crucifixion.

● Rom 6:3 . . Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus
were baptized into his death?

● Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

● Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

● Col 3:2-3 . . Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For
you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

As a result: Christ's people are now are immune to the wages of sin.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in God
who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but
they have already passed from death into life.

Here's a suggestion:

Find a quiet place, anywhere will do. Cover you face with your hands for a sense of
privacy and tell God you have never yet measured up to His standards and you're
pretty sure you never will. Tell Him you would like to take advantage of His son's
death, and thank Him for His time.

Buen Camino
(Pleasant Journey)

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

And yes, I agree that many things became more difficult under the new covenant. For example, the command to love one’s enemies is a tough one. It’s one with which I struggle. Anyone else? We are to pray for our enemies, and that’s another one with which I struggle. But the Holy Spirit will pray for me with groanings too deep for words, when I am unable to pray myself for my enemies.

"Love your enemy" is linked to the design of government in Rom. 13, which is to punish and deter evil. Just a reminder, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" was NOT abolished, Jesus didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill the law. An eye MUST be paid for an eye, a tooth MUST be paid for a tooth, "justice is expected to be served, as "he (governing authority) does not bear the sword (of justice) in vain"; the purpose of this law is to prevent vigilante justice that could create a vicious cycle and cause more damage.

The essence of this teaching is the basic principle in Christianity - "Love the sinner, but hate the sin." Don't bring hatred into a personal relationship with your neighbor just because he has done you wrong. Don't repay evil with evil, as two wrongs don't make a right. If your enemy has caused harm to your property or your family that is punishable by law, then bring it to the court and settle it by law; don't make it personal and hold a grudge against him for that indefinitely, and absolutely don't go after his property or his family for revenge. If one day he's in a dire situation desperately in need of help, don't take adavantage of that and call it karma, but provide him the help he needs, repay evil with good.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Bible Christianity is a lethal religion. In some mysterious way-- which I have never
yet been able to fully understand --God accounts Christ's people as joint
participants in his crucifixion.

True Christians, or anyone who has the gut to stand out and speak truth to power in the spirit of TRUTH, will suffer for Christ’s name sake. Satan doesn’t tolerate the spirit that convicts him of sins, so he’ll call it misinformation, he’ll censor it and he’ll go after the messenger, that’s exactly what the high priests did to Peter, and today it’s not any different. You try to speak publicly against transgender, against vaccination, against “climate change”, against BLM and you’ll see. The enemy doesn’t even have to make a move, you’ll get pushback from some people in the congregation who only come for the concert, the TED talk and other benefits.

 

[IamachildofGod4 ever]

And you may even get pushback from some pastors in this day and age. Even soul… Come, Lord Jesus, come quickly.

 

[IamachildofGod4 ever]

Even so… I should know better than to use dictation!!!

 

[Waggles]

Find a quiet place, anywhere will do. Cover you face with your hands for a sense of
privacy and tell God you have never yet measured up to His standards and you're
pretty sure you never will. Tell Him you would like to take advantage of His son's
death, and thank Him for His time.

That is not the gospel of salvation.

 

[B-A-C]

● Col 3:2-3 . . Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For
you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

As a result: Christ's people are now are immune to the wages of sin.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in God
who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but
they have already passed from death into life.

All of these verses have already been rebuffed "in context" earlier in this thread. One of the problems
with coming in in the middle of a conversation is you miss that.

● Rom 6:3 . . Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus
were baptized into his death?

● Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

See reply to Romans verses in post #25.

 

[B-A-C]

As a result: Christ's people are now are immune to the wages of sin.

As long as they don't continue in sin.

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

--God accounts Christ's people as joint
participants in his crucifixion.

True, but you can abuse grace to the point you have to crucify Him "again".

Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Heb 6:7; For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;

 

[B-A-C]

● Rom 6:3 . . Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus
were baptized into his death?

● Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

Rom 6:7; for he who has died is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8; Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
Rom 6:9; knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
Rom 6:10; For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Rom 6:11; Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:12; Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
Rom 6:13; and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
Rom 6:14; For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Rom 6:15; What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
Rom 6:16; Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
Rom 6:17; But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18; and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

It's always a good idea, when picking out one or two verses, to continue on with the theme of the passage.
Do not let sin reign, do not present your body as an instrument of sin.
How do you know if you are a slave to sin, or a slave to righteousness? If you keep sinning, you're a slave to sin... which results in (spiritual) death.

 

[IamachildofGod4 ever]

Rom 6:7; for he who has died is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8; Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
Rom 6:9; knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
Rom 6:10; For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Rom 6:11; Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:12; Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
Rom 6:13; and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
Rom 6:14; For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Rom 6:15; What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
Rom 6:16; Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
Rom 6:17; But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18; and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

It's always a good idea, when picking out one or two verses, to continue on with the theme of the passage.
Do not let sin reign, do not present your body as an instrument of sin.
How do you know if you are a slave to sin, or a slave to righteousness? If you keep sinning, you're a slave to sin... which results in (spiritual) death.

 

[IamachildofGod4 ever]

It also results in quenching and grieving the HS.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

As long as they don't continue in sin.

No, we struggle with sin for the rest of our mortal life, that's the sanctification.

 

[IamachildofGod4 ever]

We will never be sinless until our glorification but we should be sinning less.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

We will never be sinless until our glorification but we should be sinning less.

Yes, for "sin has no dominion on you", and that is real power and purpose of free will.

 

[Oseas]

No doubt you meant well with that lengthy rebuttal but honestly; all you really did
was muddy the waters.

Internet forums are a rough mission field as there are always well-meaning
Christians lurking nearby to make their religion appear even more hazardous than
Judaism. God pity Jews coming thru here looking for answers.
_

Romans 2: 1 to 12

2 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that Judgest: for wherein thou Judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that Judgest doest the same things.

2 But we are sure that the Judgment of GOD is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that Judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of GOD?

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of GOD leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of WRATH (this Day arrived, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium)and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD; <---REVELATION 11:15 & 18

6 Who will render to every MAN according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned WITHOUT LAW(the Gentile people) shall also perish without law(get ready): and as many as have sinned IN THE LAW(Jewish people) shall be JUDGED by the LAW;

 

[Beetow]

● Luke 2:8-12 . . Now there were shepherds in that region living in the fields and
keeping the night watch over their flock. The angel of The Lord appeared to them,
and the glory of The Lord shone around them, and they were struck with great fear.

. . .The angel said to them: Do not be afraid; for behold, I proclaim to you good
news of great joy that will be for all the people. For today in the city of David a
savior has been born for you who is Messiah and Lord.

The angel announced the birth of a savior; defined by Webster's as one who
rescues.

Rescuing is what the Coast Guard does when boats capsize. Rescuing is what the
National Guard does when folks are surrounded by flood waters. Rescuing is what
Firemen do when people are trapped inside burning buildings or need to be cut out
of a crumpled car wreck. Rescuing is what mountaineer teams do when climbers
are in trouble. Rescuing is what EMT paramedics do when someone needs to get to
a hospital in a hurry and kept alive till they arrive. Rescuing is what surgeons do
when someone needs an organ transplant.

I could go on and on giving example of rescuer after rescuer; but I think we get the
idea. The New Testament's Jesus is like that: he rescues people from the wrath of
God-- people who not only fully deserve it, but definitely in line to get it; and with
no humanly possible way to avoid it.

But now; of what real benefit would the savior of Luke 2:8-12 really be to anybody
if he couldn't guarantee a fail-safe rescue from the wrath of God?

But, if he could guaranteed anybody who wants it, a completely free of charge, no
strings attached, guaranteed fail-safe, human nature-proof, apostasy-proof, sin-proof,
bad behavior-proof, reprobate-proof, Ten Commandments-proof, back sliding-proof,
God-proof, Devil-proof rescue from the wrath of God, and full-time protection from
future retribution; wouldn't that qualify as good news of great joy?

I think just about everybody concerned about ending up in the lake of brimstone
depicted at Rev 20:10-15 would have to agree with me that news like that would
not only most certainly be good; but also cause for celebration, and ecstatic
happiness.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in God
who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but
they have already passed from death into life.
_

 

[Waggles]

But, if he could guaranteed anybody who wants it, a completely free of charge, no
strings attached, guaranteed fail-safe, human nature-proof, apostasy-proof, sin-proof,
bad behavior-proof, reprobate-proof, Ten Commandments-proof, back sliding-proof,
God-proof, Devil-proof rescue from the wrath of God, and full-time protection from
future retribution; wouldn't that qualify as good news of great joy?

This comes across as OSAS nonsense.
If the salvation of Jesus to disciples is so foolproof and guaranteed then there would be no need for the epistles to the Spirit-filled church with their many warnings
on getting it wrong and falling away.
Your post is without understanding of what the scripture do truly teach on salvation and discipleship.
Believers can and do stop believing.

 

[Beetow]

Your post is without understanding of what the scripture do truly teach on salvation
and discipleship.

Unless you sincerely believe yourself infallible, and speaking for God ex cathedra;
I strongly suggest that you be cautious with your choice of words; lest the hapless
day should arrive when you are forced to eat them.
_

 

[Oseas]

● Luke 2:8-12 . . Now there were shepherds in that region living in the fields and
keeping the night watch over their flock. The angel of The Lord appeared to them,
and the glory of The Lord shone around them, and they were struck with great fear.

. . .The angel said to them: Do not be afraid; for behold, I proclaim to you good
news of great joy that will be for all the people. For today in the city of David a
savior has been born for you who is Messiah and Lord.

The angel announced the birth of a savior; defined by Webster's as one who
rescues.

Rescuing is what the Coast Guard does when boats capsize. Rescuing is what the
National Guard does when folks are surrounded by flood waters. Rescuing is what
Firemen do when people are trapped inside burning buildings or need to be cut out
of a crumpled car wreck. Rescuing is what mountaineer teams do when climbers
are in trouble. Rescuing is what EMT paramedics do when someone needs to get to
a hospital in a hurry and kept alive till they arrive. Rescuing is what surgeons do
when someone needs an organ transplant.

I could go on and on giving example of rescuer after rescuer; but I think we get the
idea. The New Testament's Jesus is like that: he rescues people from the wrath of
God-- people who not only fully deserve it, but definitely in line to get it; and with
no humanly possible way to avoid it.

But now; of what real benefit would the savior of Luke 2:8-12 really be to anybody
if he couldn't guarantee a fail-safe rescue from the wrath of God?

But, if he could guaranteed anybody who wants it, a completely free of charge, no
strings attached, guaranteed fail-safe, human nature-proof, apostasy-proof, sin-proof,
bad behavior-proof, reprobate-proof, Ten Commandments-proof, back sliding-proof,
God-proof, Devil-proof rescue from the wrath of God, and full-time protection from
future retribution; wouldn't that qualify as good news of great joy?

I think just about everybody concerned about ending up in the lake of brimstone
depicted at Rev 20:10-15 would have to agree with me that news like that would
not only most certainly be good; but also cause for celebration, and ecstatic
happiness.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in God
who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but
they have already passed from death into life.
_

Your thinking and conceptions are from a human perspective, a stumbling block, not from GOD perspective.
He whom GUD has sent speaks the words of GOD: for GOD gives not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Romans 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of GOD unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of GOD revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

But he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all - John 3: 31.
For there are three that bear record/ testify in heaven, the Father(the Word-the Word is GOD), the Word(the Word made flesh-JESUS), and the Holy Spirit; and these three are One - 1 John 5:7.
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of GOD is greater : for this is the witness of GOD which He hath testified of His Son.