The baptism in Fire

[Charlie24]

You changed the wording. Paul said buried "with" Him in baptism. He didn't say buried "in" Him. You're saying buried with Him is being buried in Him. That's not what Paul said.

Also, what is your basis for claiming that this is a "spiritual" baptism? Nothing you posted here says it's a spiritual baptism. Sure, there's a spiritual act in water baptism. Peter makes that clear. However, that is a water baptism. Nothing you've expressed so far precludes Romans 6 from being water baptism.

Ok, that's fine. You just keep placing your faith in salvation in repenting + water baptism.

God demands 100% faith in His Son, He will not accept 50% in Christ and 50% in anything else.

You had better inquire into that before your time runs out.

Water baptism is a command of God, but if it's done in the wrong way it becomes a work.

That means you have placed half of your faith in a man to perform the ceremony of water baptism for you.

Rom, 11:6
" And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

I suggest you figure it out.

 

[Butch5]

When you accepted Christ as your Saviour, God automatically performed a spiritual operation on your heart, He removed the foreskin of your heart.

That operation included, being nailed on that Cross with Christ, dying with Him, and being raised from the dead as He was.

That is the baptism into Christ. It's your salvation in the spiritual realm.

Water baptism is the physical evidence of this spiritual salvation that took place in the heart.

You are dead with Christ in the water, lowered into the water, buried with Him in His death, raised out of the water in a newness of life, being resurrected from the dead.

The salvation is in the spiritual baptism, the evidence of your faith in being saved is demonstrated by the physical act of water baptism, calling on the name of lord.

Do you understand this? If not, I can explain it another way.

I understand that it's what many claim. I also understand that the Scriptures don't support it.

Show me somewhere in Scripture where it says water baptism is simply evidence of an already confirmed salvation. You won't find it. Look at the early church, those taught by the apostles and those following right behind them. Here's a quote from Irenaeus. This man's teacher was taught by the apostle John.

1. It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of “redemption” as there are teachers of these mystical opinions. And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place, that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith.

Irenaeus of Lyons, “Irenæus against Heresies,” in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 345.

He says that baptism is regeneration to God. There's not really any question what he's referring to when he uses the word regeneration. He's clearly alluding to the apostle Paul.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Tt 3:3–5.

It's literally, the bath of regeneration. Since it's a bath, we know it's water baptism. Also, he contrasts it with the renewing of the spirit so we know it not speaking of the spirit. It's water baptism. Paul tells us that water baptism is regeneration to God. And, Irenaeus, a man one teacher removed from John confirms it.

 

[Butch5]

Ok, that's fine. You just keep placing your faith in salvation in repenting + water baptism.

God demands 100% faith in His Son, He will not accept 50% in Christ and 50% in anything else.

You had better inquire into that before your time runs out.

Water baptism is a command of God, but if it's done in the wrong way it becomes a work.

That means you have placed half of your faith in a man to perform the ceremony of water baptism for you.

Rom, 11:6
" And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

I suggest you figure it out.

See, you proved my point. You're diminishing baptism because you hold to "Faith Alone". I could encourage you to seek the truth and rid yourself of the Faith Alone doctrine that is not Scriptural. It's interesting that the only place in Scripture that speaks of faith alone says a man is "not" justified by faith alone.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jas 2:23–24.

Martin Luther got it wrong.

 

[Charlie24]

I understand that it's what many claim. I also understand that the Scriptures don't support it.

Show me somewhere in Scripture where it says water baptism is simply evidence of an already confirmed salvation. You won't find it. Look at the early church, those taught by the apostles and those following right behind them. Here's a quote from Irenaeus. This man's teacher was taught by the apostle John.

1. It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of “redemption” as there are teachers of these mystical opinions. And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place, that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith.

Irenaeus of Lyons, “Irenæus against Heresies,” in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 345.

He says that baptism is regeneration to God. There's not really any question what he's referring to when he uses the word regeneration. He's clearly alluding to the apostle Paul.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Tt 3:3–5.

It's literally, the bath of regeneration. Since it's a bath, we know it's water baptism. Also, he contrasts it with the renewing of the spirit so we know it not speaking of the spirit. It's water baptism. Paul tells us that water baptism is regeneration to God. And, Irenaeus, a man one teacher removed from John confirms it.

Paul wrote almost half of the New Testament, he is the only author in Scripture that explains exactly how to be saved in detail.

Show me one time where Paul mentions water baptism is necessary for salvation.

Don't risk your eternal life on what Luke said in passing as to what Peter said. That is not and was not meant to be an explanation of salvation.

It was what was said with no explanation whatsoever.

What Peter actually said was, "repent and be baptized BECAUSE OF the forgiveness of sins."

The forgiveness of sins is in the repenting, not the water baptism

 

[Charlie24]

Paul wrote almost half of the New Testament, he is the only author in Scripture that explains exactly how to be saved in detail.

Show me one time where Paul mentions water baptism is necessary for salvation.

Don't risk your eternal life on what Luke said in passing as to what Peter said. That is not and was not meant to be an explanation of salvation.

It was what was said with no explanation whatsoever.

What Peter actually said was, "repent and be baptized BECAUSE OF the forgiveness of sins."

The forgiveness of sins is in the repenting, not the water baptism

Paul told us exactly how to be saved, and it does NOT include water baptism.

Romans 10:9-10

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Salvation comes from the heart, the circumcision of the heart as I have been explaining to you from Paul.

 

[Charlie24]

Paul told us exactly how to be saved, and it does NOT include water baptism.

Romans 10:9-10

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Salvation comes from the heart, the circumcision of the heart as I have been explaining to you from Paul.

When you confess Christ is your Saviour, and believe God raised Him fro the dead, Paul said believing that in the heart is "made into salvation."

How is it "made into salvation?" Through the operation of God, circumcising your heart through faith, as Paul said in Colossians 2.

 

[Butch5]

Paul wrote almost half of the New Testament, he is the only author in Scripture that explains exactly how to be saved in detail.

Show me one time where Paul mentions water baptism is necessary for salvation.

Don't risk your eternal life on what Luke said in passing as to what Peter said. That is not and was not meant to be an explanation of salvation.

It was what was said with no explanation whatsoever.

What Peter actually said was, "repent and be baptized BECAUSE OF the forgiveness of sins."

The forgiveness of sins is in the repenting, not the water baptism

So, no one got saved by Jesus' preaching? No one was saved before Paul? I gave you Paul's words, 'He saved us by the bath of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. The only bath in the Christian faith is water baptism.

Don't buy the "because of" argument. Robertson tried to make that argument and Mantley took him to task. Since then quite a few other Scholars have refuted Robertson's argument including one of the prominent Scholars of today, Daniel Wallace. Robertson tried the same thing many others do to diminish baptism.

But, let's look at Paul's words.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Eph 5:25–27.

It literally reads, that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the bath of water in the word. There's a bath or water. In what word? The word, translated word is rhema. It's the spoken word. So, what spoken word speaks of a bath or water?

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Mt 28:19–20.

Luke was Paul's traveling companion, so much of what he learned he learned from Paul. Here is Luke's account of Paul's encounter with Ananias.

15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. 16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ac 22:15–16.

Here, "be baptized" is a command and it's in the middle voice. In the middle voice, the subject both does and receives the action of the verb. In other words, he's doing it to himself. In this passage, Ananias is commanding Paul to be baptized. In this, he is both doing and receiving the action. Note that in this baptism he is washing. That entails water. He is washing away his sins. So, water baptism washes away sins. Isn't that what Peter said? Repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins? Also in this water, there is a calling on the name of the Lord. Didn't Peter also say this?


18 For Christ also suffered once for sins,
the just for the unjust,
in order that he could bring you to God,
being put to death in the flesh,
but made alive in the spirit,
19 in which also he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,

20 who were formerly disobedient, when the patience of God waited in the days of Noah, while* an ark was being constructed, in which a few—that is, eight souls—were rescued through water. 21 And also, corresponding to this, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, with angels and authorities and powers having been subjected to him.


W. Hall Harris III et al., eds., The Lexham English Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012), 1 Pe 3:18–22.

In both passages, we see that in water baptism there is an appeal made to God. Notice in Ananias' statement it's all about the physical part of baptism. He didn't explain the part that God plays in it. The point is that water baptism is the point where one enters the faith. It's where sins are forgiven and an appeal is made to God

 

[Butch5]

Paul told us exactly how to be saved, and it does NOT include water baptism.

Romans 10:9-10

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Salvation comes from the heart, the circumcision of the heart as I have been explaining to you from Paul.

Doesn't exclude it either. This is cherry-picking. Paul also didn't say, this is the formula you must follow to be saved and nothing more. That's like saying the mechanic said you need spark plugs to drive the car and then claiming because he didn't say anything about wheels we don't need them.

 

[Butch5]

When you confess Christ is your Saviour, and believe God raised Him fro the dead, Paul said believing that in the heart is "made into salvation."

How is it "made into salvation?" Through the operation of God, circumcising your heart through faith, as Paul said in Colossians 2.

That doesn't mean he didn't mean the rest of what he said.

 

[Charlie24]

So, no one got saved by Jesus' preaching? No one was saved before Paul? I gave you Paul's words, 'He saved us by the bath of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. The only bath in the Christian faith is water baptism.

Don't buy the "because of" argument. Robertson tried to make that argument and Mantley took him to task. Since then quite a few other Scholars have refuted Robertson's argument including one of the prominent Scholars of today, Daniel Wallace. Robertson tried the same thing many others do to diminish baptism.

But, let's look at Paul's words.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Eph 5:25–27.

It literally reads, that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the bath of water in the word. There's a bath or water. In what word? The word, translated word is rhema. It's the spoken word. So, what spoken word speaks of a bath or water?

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Mt 28:19–20.

Luke was Paul's traveling companion, so much of what he learned he learned from Paul. Here is Luke's account of Paul's encounter with Ananias.

15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. 16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ac 22:15–16.

Here, "be baptized" is a command and it's in the middle voice. In the middle voice, the subject both does and receives the action of the verb. In other words, he's doing it to himself. In this passage, Ananias is commanding Paul to be baptized. In this, he is both doing and receiving the action. Note that in this baptism he is washing. That entails water. He is washing away his sins. So, water baptism washes away sins. Isn't that what Peter said? Repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins? Also in this water, there is a calling on the name of the Lord. Didn't Peter also say this?


18 For Christ also suffered once for sins,
the just for the unjust,
in order that he could bring you to God,
being put to death in the flesh,
but made alive in the spirit,
19 in which also he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,

20 who were formerly disobedient, when the patience of God waited in the days of Noah, while* an ark was being constructed, in which a few—that is, eight souls—were rescued through water. 21 And also, corresponding to this, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, with angels and authorities and powers having been subjected to him.


W. Hall Harris III et al., eds., The Lexham English Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012), 1 Pe 3:18–22.

In both passages, we see that in water baptism there is an appeal made to God. Notice in Ananias' statement it's all about the physical part of baptism. He didn't explain the part that God plays in it. The point is that water baptism is the point where one enters the faith. It's where sins are forgiven and an appeal is made to God

Yes, and Mantley tried to make the argument that "eis" in English (for) cannot be translated as "because of." He said there is no example of it being used in the Scripture.

He was wrong!

Matt. 12:41

"The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here."

Because in this verse is "eis" it can be translated "for" and usually is.

Nineveh didn't repent "for" the preaching of Jonas, they repented "because of" the preaching of Jonas.

The same holds true in Acts 2:38, they were not water baptized "for" the forgiveness of sins, they were water baptized "because of" the forgiveness of sins when they repented.

 

[Butch5]

Yes, and Mantley tried to make the argument that "eis" in English (for) cannot be translated as "because of." He said there is no example of it being used in the Scripture.

He was wrong!

Matt. 12:41

"The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here."

Because in this verse is "eis" it can be translated "for" and usually is.

Nineveh didn't repent "for" the preaching of Jonas, they repented "because of" the preaching of Jonas.

The same holds true in Acts 2:38, they were not water baptized "for" the forgiveness of sins, they were water baptized "because of" the forgiveness of sins when they repented.

Eis means unto. It denotes progress toward a goal. Because doesn't. As I said, quite a few scholars since Mantley have refuted Robertson's argument.

 

[Charlie24]

Eis means unto. It denotes progress toward a goal. Because doesn't. As I said, quite a few scholars since Mantley have refuted Robertson's argument.

Eis​

ice
Parts of SpeechPreposition

Eis Definition​

NAS Word Usage - Total: 161

1. into, unto, to, towards, for, among

"For" (as used in Acts 2:38 "for the forgiveness...") could have twomeanings. If you saw a poster saying "Jesse James wanted for robbery", "for" could mean Jesse is wanted so he can commit a robbery, or is wanted because he has committed a robbery. The latersense is the correct one. So too in this passage, the word "for"signifies an action in the past. Otherwise, it would violate theentire tenor of the NT teaching on salvation by grace and not by works.

 

[Charlie24]

Eis​

ice
Parts of SpeechPreposition

Eis Definition​

NAS Word Usage - Total: 161

1. into, unto, to, towards, for, among

"For" (as used in Acts 2:38 "for the forgiveness...") could have twomeanings. If you saw a poster saying "Jesse James wanted for robbery", "for" could mean Jesse is wanted so he can commit a robbery, or is wanted because he has committed a robbery. The latersense is the correct one. So too in this passage, the word "for"signifies an action in the past. Otherwise, it would violate theentire tenor of the NT teaching on salvation by grace and not by works.

If water baptism is required for salvation, that is a ceremony performed by another man in order for you to be saved.

That is works for salvation and violates "for we are saved by grace through faith, not of works...."

 

[Butch5]

Eis​

ice
Parts of SpeechPreposition

Eis Definition​

NAS Word Usage - Total: 161

1. into, unto, to, towards, for, among

"For" (as used in Acts 2:38 "for the forgiveness...") could have twomeanings. If you saw a poster saying "Jesse James wanted for robbery", "for" could mean Jesse is wanted so he can commit a robbery, or is wanted because he has committed a robbery. The latersense is the correct one. So too in this passage, the word "for"signifies an action in the past. Otherwise, it would violate theentire tenor of the NT teaching on salvation by grace and not by works.

Thanks for proving my point! He tells you why it must be that way. Why? Because if not it disagrees with his theology of faith alone. His theology is driving his understanding instead of Scripture. The error is that there is no "Entire tenor of the NT teaching salvation by grace and not of works." as is typically understood in the Faith Alone doctrine. When the Bible speaks of 'not of works' it's speaking of the Mosaic Law, not "anything one does" as is so often claimed today. Baptism is not part of the Mosaic Law. Thus it is not of the works that Paul speaks of.

 

[Butch5]

If water baptism is required for salvation, that is a ceremony performed by another man in order for you to be saved.

That is works for salvation and violates "for we are saved by grace through faith, not of works...."

No, it doesn't. The works that Paul speaks of are the Mosaic Law. Baptism is not part of the Mosaic law. You should consider what you call works because Paul also said this.

5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart, you are storing up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and of the revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will reward each one according to his works: 7 to those who, by perseverance in good work, seek glory and honor and immortality, eternal life, 8 but to those who act from selfish ambition and who disobey the truth, but who obey unrighteousness, wrath and anger.

W. Hall Harris III et al., eds., The Lexham English Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012), Ro 2:5–8.

Paul said God will judge everyone according to their works. Those who have done good are seeking eternal life. Those who haven't, condemnation and wrath. No matter how one looks at it that's eternal life based on works. He also said this.

8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered, 9 and being perfected, he became the source of eternal salvation to all those who obey him, 10 being designated by God a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

W. Hall Harris III et al., eds., The Lexham English Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012), Heb 5:7–10.

Christ became salvation to those who obey. Obedience is doing work.

That begs the question, what are the works that don't save?

 

[Charlie24]

Thanks for proving my point! He tells you why it must be that way. Why? Because if not it disagrees with his theology of faith alone. His theology is driving his understanding instead of Scripture. The error is that there is no "Entire tenor of the NT teaching salvation by grace and not of works." as is typically understood in the Faith Alone doctrine. When the Bible speaks of 'not of works' it's speaking of the Mosaic Law, not "anything one does" as is so often claimed today. Baptism is not part of the Mosaic Law. Thus it is not of the works that Paul speaks of.

Have is said anything about "faith alone" I think not.

But it seems you're figuring it out.

 

[Butch5]

Have is said anything about "faith alone" I think not.

But it seems you're figuring it out.

It's clear from what you've posted that the author believes in Faith Alone. Your posts have indicated the same.

 

[Charlie24]

No, it doesn't. The works that Paul speaks of are the Mosaic Law. Baptism is not part of the Mosaic law. You should consider what you call works because Paul also said this.

5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart, you are storing up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and of the revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will reward each one according to his works: 7 to those who, by perseverance in good work, seek glory and honor and immortality, eternal life, 8 but to those who act from selfish ambition and who disobey the truth, but who obey unrighteousness, wrath and anger.

W. Hall Harris III et al., eds., The Lexham English Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012), Ro 2:5–8.

Paul said God will judge everyone according to their works. Those who have done good are seeking eternal life. Those who haven't, condemnation and wrath. No matter how one looks at it that's eternal life based on works. He also said this.

8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered, 9 and being perfected, he became the source of eternal salvation to all those who obey him, 10 being designated by God a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

W. Hall Harris III et al., eds., The Lexham English Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012), Heb 5:7–10.

Christ became salvation to those who obey. Obedience is doing work.

That begs the question, what are the works that don't save?

LOL, so works are confined to the Old Testament Law when you say so, right?

Either you haven't read Paul's letters or you are denying them. Not sure which.

But I am sure that I'm done with this. I can only show you, the rest is between you and God.

 

[First and the Last]

Yes, and Mantley tried to make the argument that "eis" in English (for) cannot be translated as "because of." He said there is no example of it being used in the Scripture.

He was wrong!

Matt. 12:41

"The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here."

Because in this verse is "eis" it can be translated "for" and usually is.

Nineveh didn't repent "for" the preaching of Jonas, they repented "because of" the preaching of Jonas.

The same holds true in Acts 2:38, they were not water baptized "for" the forgiveness of sins, they were water baptized "because of" the forgiveness of sins when they repented.

for the remission of sins - "Remission" translates the Greek "ἄφεσιν" (aphesin), which means forgiveness or release from bondage or imprisonment. This phrase links the acts of repentance and baptism directly to the forgiveness of sins, suggesting a theological causality or association between these acts and being cleansed from sin.

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost - The phrase uses "λήμψεσθε" (lēmpsesthe), a future middle indicative form of "λαμβάνω" (lambanō), meaning to take or receive. "The gift of the Holy Ghost" refers to the Holy Spirit being given to believers (evidenced by Speaking in Tongues according to Acts 2:1-4), which in the context of Acts and Pentecost is associated with empowerment for service, the presence of God within, and guidance in the Christian life.

The Greek preposition "εἰς" generally means "into," "towards," or "for the purpose of." It often indicates movement toward a goal or entry into a state. In the context of Acts 2:38, "εἰς" links the actions of repentance and baptism to the outcome or purpose, which is the "remission of sins."

More commonly, "εἰς" is understood in the sense of "for the purpose of" or "leading to." This suggests that baptism is performed for the purpose of or in order to achieve the remission of sins. This interpretation aligns with the traditional understanding in many Christian denominations that see baptism as sacramental, conveying grace and playing a role in the forgiveness process.

 

[Butch5]

LOL, so works are confined to the Old Testament Law when you say so, right?

Either you haven't read Paul's letters or you are denying them. Not sure which.

But I am sure that I'm done with this. I can only show you, the rest is between you and God.

Well, let's look at the passages. Virtually every passage he speaks of has the Mosaic Law somewhere in the context. One of the biggest problems Paul faced was that of the Judaizers. Look at acts 15.

And some men came down from Judea and* began teaching* the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom prescribed by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 And after* there was no little strife and debate by Paul and Barnabas against them, they appointed Paul and Barnabas and some others from among them to go up to the apostles and elders in Jerusalem concerning this issue.

W. Hall Harris III et al., eds., The Lexham English Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012), Ac 15:1–2.

There were Jews from Jerusalem going behind Paul telling his converts that if they weren't circumcised they couldn't be saved.

Ephesians 2:8

8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are his creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, so that we may walk in them.

Jewish and Gentile Believers United in Christ
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus* making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself.


W. Hall Harris III et al., eds., The Lexham English Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012), Eph 2:7–16.

They weren't saved by works. Then Paul explains, Christ has broken down the wall of partition. that's a reference to an actual wall in the temple that separated the Jews and the Gentiles. Then he says Christ invalidated the law of commandments contained in ordinances. That's the Mosiac law. The reason they're not saved by works is because Chris has broken down the wall of partition and invalidated the law.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is the go-to verse for the "not of works" arguments and it's clear from the context that Paul is referring to the Mosaic Law and not baptism or helping old ladies across the street.