The baptism in Fire

[Charlie24]

for the remission of sins - "Remission" translates the Greek "ἄφεσιν" (aphesin), which means forgiveness or release from bondage or imprisonment. This phrase links the acts of repentance and baptism directly to the forgiveness of sins, suggesting a theological causality or association between these acts and being cleansed from sin.

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost - The phrase uses "λήμψεσθε" (lēmpsesthe), a future middle indicative form of "λαμβάνω" (lambanō), meaning to take or receive. "The gift of the Holy Ghost" refers to the Holy Spirit being given to believers (evidenced by Speaking in Tongues according to Acts 2:1-4), which in the context of Acts and Pentecost is associated with empowerment for service, the presence of God within, and guidance in the Christian life.

The Greek preposition "εἰς" generally means "into," "towards," or "for the purpose of." It often indicates movement toward a goal or entry into a state. In the context of Acts 2:38, "εἰς" links the actions of repentance and baptism to the outcome or purpose, which is the "remission of sins."

More commonly, "εἰς" is understood in the sense of "for the purpose of" or "leading to." This suggests that baptism is performed for the purpose of or in order to achieve the remission of sins. This interpretation aligns with the traditional understanding in many Christian denominations that see baptism as sacramental, conveying grace and playing a role in the forgiveness process.

Can a person receive the Holy Spirit before water baptism?

 

[Butch5]

Can a person receive the Holy Spirit before water baptism?

God can give the spirit to whoever He chooses to. We see this with His giving the Spirit to those of the house of Cornelius to show the apostles that He had accepted the Gentiles. However, this is not how He typically does it.

 

[Charlie24]

God can give the spirit to whoever He chooses to. We see this with His giving the Spirit to those of the house of Cornelius to show the apostles that He had accepted the Gentiles. However, this is not how He typically does it.

The indwelling Holy Spirit, can a person receive it before water baptism?

 

[First and the Last]

Can a person receive the Holy Spirit before water baptism?

Absolutely can receive The Baptism of The Holy Ghost speaking in tongues before water baptism (God Removes Sins), but not before Repentance (God forgives Sins).

 

[Butch5]

The indwelling Holy Spirit, can a person receive it before water baptism?

Again, God can do whatever He wants to. We have examples of people receiving the spirit before they professed faith and some that didn't receive it till later after they professed faith.

 

[Charlie24]

Absolutely can receive The Baptism of The Holy Ghost speaking in tongues before water baptism (God Removes Sins), but not before Repentance (God forgives Sins).

If God removes sin at repentance, as you say, why do you say we must be water baptized for the forgiveness of sins?

Did you not say, "This suggests that baptism is performed for the purpose of or in order to achieve the remission of sins."

 

[Charlie24]

Again, God can do whatever He wants to. We have examples of people receiving the spirit before they professed faith and some that didn't receive it till later after they professed faith.

God can't do whatever He wants, He lives by a standard of rules He Himself has made. He can do whatever He wants inside those rules.

For example, the Scripture says the natural man (unsaved) cannot receive anything from the Spirit. But you say man can receive from the Spirit before they profess faith.

1 Cor. 2:14-16

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."

 

[First and the Last]

If God removes sin at repentance, as you say, why do you say we must be water baptized for the forgiveness of sins?

Did you not say, "This suggests that baptism is performed for the purpose of or in order to achieve the remission of sins."

You have my comment backwards read again. Repentance (forgive sins) Baptism (remove/remission of sins) How did you get that wrong? God bless

 

[Butch5]

Three passages explicitly state that Baptism saves.

Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Mk 16:15–16.

He who believes. That is present tense. He that is baptized. That's present tense. Shall be saved. That is future tense. There's simply no way around it. Both present tense states must precede the future state. That's just the law of language. I'm sure someone will mention that the ending of Mark is missing in some early manuscripts. However, that's really a moot point because the long ending is quoted or alluded to in the early church writings which predate the older manuscripts by about 200 years.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), 1 Pe 3:18–22.

Here Peter says that baptism saves and there's no doubt it's water baptism because he compares it to the water of the flood.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Tt 3:4–5.

Here Paul says they were saved by the bath of regeneration. There's no doubt that this is water baptism because he contrasts it with the work of the spirit.

 

[Charlie24]

You have my comment backwards read again. Repentance (forgive sins) Baptism (remove/remission of sins) How did you get that wrong? God bless

Forgiven sins are removed instantly, I don't know how you came up with this.

I thought the blood of Lamb was the only thing that cleanses from sin. Where does the water come into play?

1 John 1:7

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

 

[Butch5]

God can't do whatever He wants, He lives by a standard of rules He Himself has made. He can do whatever He wants inside those rules.

For example, the Scripture says the natural man (unsaved) cannot receive anything from the Spirit. But you say man can receive from the Spirit before they profess faith.

1 Cor. 2:14-16

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."

It doesn't say the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit. It's in the middle voice. He does not receive them. Why doesn't he? Paul answers that. Because they are foolish to him. Why were they foolishness to him? If we look at the context Paul is writing to the Corinthians, the Greeks. The Greeks believed that man was an immaterial being and that his goal in life was to escape the corrupt flesh. What was Paul preaching? He was preaching the resurrection. To the Greek whose goal is to escape the flesh, it would be counterproductive to enter back into the flesh he had spent his whole life trying to escape. In this context, the natural man is the Greek. He certainly wasn't looking for a resurrection. We see this elsewhere in Scripture.

16 kNow while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry. 17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him. 18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ac 17:16–18.

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ac 17:32.

 

[Charlie24]

It doesn't say the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit. It's in the middle voice. He does not receive them. Why doesn't he? Paul answers that. Because they are foolish to him. Why were they foolishness to him? If we look at the context Paul is writing to the Corinthians, the Greeks. The Greeks believed that man was an immaterial being and that his goal in life was to escape the corrupt flesh. What was Paul preaching? He was preaching the resurrection. To the Greek whose goal is to escape the flesh, it would be counterproductive to enter back into the flesh he had spent his whole life trying to escape. In this context, the natural man is the Greek. He certainly wasn't looking for a resurrection. We see this elsewhere in Scripture.

16 kNow while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry. 17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him. 18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ac 17:16–18.

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ac 17:32.

"Receives not the things from the Spirit of God means receives not the things from the Spirit of God.

That means nothing!

 

[Charlie24]

Ok, Butch, I've had enough of this nonsense. I'll leave you to your own beliefs.

 

[lentz]

Ok, Butch, I've had enough of this nonsense. I'll leave you to your own beliefs.

My ignore list is growing by leaps and bounds . Sad

 

[Butch5]

"Receives not the things from the Spirit of God means receives not the things from the Spirit of God.

That means nothing!

If someone doesn't receive something it can be for multiple reasons. You could offer it and I could refuse it. Or, you could simply not offer it. Either way, I haven't received it. The difference, however, is that in one case I'm the cause of not receiving it and in the other, you're the cause. In that passage, the natural man is the cause. He rejected it.

 

[First and the Last]

Forgiven sins are removed instantly, I don't know how you came up with this.

I thought the blood of Lamb was the only thing that cleanses from sin. Where does the water come into play?

1 John 1:7

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

Baptism is being Spiritually covered by His blood. Cleanseth us from all sin. Cleanseth (baptizes us or washes us) signifying baptism.

Baptism is also seen as a sign of the New Covenant between God and believers, marked by the blood of Christ (similar to how the Old Covenant was marked by circumcision). It signifies an individual’s identification with Christ and His Church.

Baptism symbolizes the cleansing from sin that comes through Jesus Christ’s sacrificial death. The idea of being "covered by His blood" refers to the atonement and the purification of sin through His sacrifice.

In Christian theology, Christ's sacrifice on the cross is the ultimate atonement for sin. His blood, shed for many, serves as the means by which redemption is offered to humanity. Baptism is viewed by many Christians as an act that symbolically applies the benefits of this sacrifice to the believer. Through baptism, the cleansing power of Christ's blood is commemorated and invoked, symbolizing the washing away of sin (1 John 1:7).

Baptism is deeply imbued with the symbolism of cleansing, protection, redemption, and covenant, all of which are benefits believed to be secured through the shedding of Christ’s blood. Baptism serves as a vivid, symbolic enactment of these theological truths, making the saving power of Christ's sacrifice present and effective in the believer’s spiritual journey.

 

[joestue]

John the baptist was filled from the womb with the Holy Spirit, but lentz wont see this comment because im on his ignore list as of 20 min ago.

Many people have a list of verses on their ignore list too.

 

[First and the Last]

------------For the General Audience. We have so much error rampant through this forum. Hopefully every believer listens.------------

Believers have a responsibility to point out error and guide others towards truth as part of their commitment to love, truth, and the spiritual well-being of the community. This responsibility is rooted in the broader biblical commands to love one's neighbor, to pursue righteousness, and to be agents of reconciliation and truth in the world. Several passages throughout the New Testament underscore this aspect of Christian duty: (We are called to love one another even when we disagree. Perhaps we can take a step back and approach ALL conversation with a spirit of humility and respect. While we may have different interpretations (The Word of God is the only true Interpretation), it's important to remember that God calls us to unity and love. Let's focus on those shared values in ALL discussions.)

Galatians 6:1 (NKJV): "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." This verse emphasizes the responsibility of believers to help restore those who have fallen into sin. The approach should be characterized by gentleness and self-awareness, highlighting the importance of humility and care in correcting others.
Matthew 18:15-17 (NKJV): "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector." Here, Jesus provides a process for addressing sin within the community, emphasizing the importance of private correction and the goal of reconciliation. It shows a structured approach to pointing out error, with the ultimate aim of restoration.
2 Timothy 4:2 (NKJV): "Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching." Paul instructs Timothy—and by extension, all believers—to be diligent in teaching the truth of God's Word, which includes correcting errors and encouraging right living. This exhortation underscores the role of Scripture in guiding the process of correction and the need for patience and dedication in this task.
James 5:19-20 (NKJV): "Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins." James highlights the life-saving impact of correcting error and guiding someone back to the truth. It presents the act of pointing out error as an expression of care and concern for the spiritual state of others.

with meekness and fear: The manner in which believers are to defend their faith is critically important. "Meekness" suggests gentleness and humility, indicating that our defense should not be aggressive or confrontational but characterized by the humility that comes from understanding that our faith is a gift from God. "Fear" in this context refers to a deep respect or reverence for God, reminding believers that their ultimate accountability is to Him. This respectful approach ensures that the conversation about faith honors God and respects the dignity of the person asking.

These passages collectively illustrate that believers are indeed called to lovingly and carefully address error within the community, always aiming for the restoration and spiritual health of the individual. This responsibility is carried out within the context of a commitment to truth, love, humility, and the ultimate goal of salvation. It's important that such correction is done in a spirit of gentleness, respect, and love, reflecting the character of Christ. This is not what I'm seeing in most of these discussions. If our discussion is done in any other way is not the Spirit of Christ.

 

[A servant of the Kings]

The baptism in fire is, the Baptism of The Holy Ghost, which is evidenced by the sign of Speaking in Tongues. John prophesied about the baptism in fire and it was fulfilled (and continuing to be fulfilled, to all those who desire it) in Acts 2:1-4

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Acts Chapter 2
1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

God is still calling people today to accept this baptism, with evidence of Speaking in Tongues, by faith to all those who seek for it.

Yes the tongues are very beautiful, they are giving the power over our tongues over to God, so that we may pray what is wise to pray.

Yes the baptism in the Holy Spirit, and in the Holy white fire of God are connected. It is like the Holy spirit is the scent of a beautiful flower, the Flower is the light of God, the scent will lead us to Him.

Jesus Who acts in perfect harmony with the Holy Spirit and is inside Father, is our shepherd.

The baptism in the white fire of God is only possible when we have arrived, since it will happen in Heaven, the 2nd heaven.

 

[First and the Last]

Forgiven sins are removed instantly, I don't know how you came up with this.

I thought the blood of Lamb was the only thing that cleanses from sin. Where does the water come into play?

1 John 1:7

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

Want to also point out that water has no power. Our faith isn't placed in the water only the truth of what baptism represents, which is Christ alone.