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The church vs LGBQT community

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God's Word / authority will Always be more important than Society.

God's Word Needs to be our final authority. Society varies with the direction of the wind -- so to speak. God's Word is Stability.

God's Word calls sin - sin. Maybe that's the biggest problem -- people don't care what God's Word says. God's Word Also tells us that there is heaven or hell in each person's future and That will last forever. And God's Word tells us how to be able to be in heaven or end up in hell.

Gods says to not go against your nature. It talks about 'sex' slaves and paganism, not gay marriage and relationships. The problem is you think the bible says something, but it can also be interpreted differently. Do not you see how we we have all these sects while reading the same book. There are churches that support gays. They can also put a good debate. It is similar to what you discuss here about Calvinism and the other things.
 
A person can rationalize Scripture all they want to. It IS God's Word and pretty plain , simple to understand.
 
Gods says to not go against your nature.
Dear KittyLinda,
I'm curious where in Scripture does God say this?

The reason I ask, is because we are a new creation in Christ Jesus, renewing of our minds to what is acceptable by Him. This does not mean holding unto the old nature, but living in the new, no matter how difficult it maybe at first!

2Co 5:17 NKJV - Therefore, if anyone [is] in Christ, [he is] a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Rom 12:2 NKJV - And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what [is] that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
 
A person can rationalize Scripture all they want to. It IS God's Word and pretty plain , simple to understand.

Yeah surely pretty plain and simple. Protestant and Catholic slaughtering each other because they believed slightly different is a proof of it.

The Bible does not completely address homosexuality. My lord never talked about it. The prophets never talked about it. Being homophobic does not help. They harmed none. Are LGBTQ Christians? They are not. I do not care what the Pope said lately. They are free to do whatever they like. They could care less about sinning, or the bible, or Jesus.

Religion kills. Jesus saves. I understand you got a bible in your home. What I do not understand is why you keep adding to it.
 
Dear KittyLinda,
I'm curious where in Scripture does God say this?

The reason I ask, is because we are a new creation in Christ Jesus, renewing of our minds to what is acceptable by Him. This does not mean holding unto the old nature, but living in the new, no matter how difficult it maybe at first!

2Co 5:17 NKJV - Therefore, if anyone [is] in Christ, [he is] a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Rom 12:2 NKJV - And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what [is] that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another—men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was [their] fitting retribution.


Romans 1:27

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition



This is NOT gay marriage or a gay relationship.
 
And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another—men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was [their] fitting retribution.


Romans 1:27

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition



This is NOT gay marriage or a gay relationship.
Dear KittyLinda,
If you don't believe that this scripture is talking about homosexuality. Then what is it talking about?

With the love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Dear KittyLinda,
If you don't believe that this scripture is talking about homosexuality. Then what is it talking about?

With the love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

If you actually pay attention to the context; it is talking about ‘heterosexuals’ engaging in homosexual sex ‘contrary’ to their nature. It is a pagan practice.

I could be wrong, but that is how I see it. It seems very clear.
 
If you actually pay attention to the context; it is talking about ‘heterosexuals’ engaging in homosexual sex ‘contrary’ to their nature. It is a pagan practice.

I could be wrong, but that is how I see it. It seems very clear.
Dear KittyLinda,
Fair enough.
So the implication even in the Amplified is suggesting that it is natural that men have relations with women.

Do, you know of Scripture that would say that men with men, or women with women is natural?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

Below just for your reference, so you don't have to keep looking back and forth on the Scripture verse. :)

And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another—men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was [their] fitting retribution.
Romans 1:27
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition
 
Dear KittyLinda,
Fair enough.
So the implication even in the Amplified is suggesting that it is natural that men have relations with women.

Do, you know of Scripture that would say that men with men, or women with women is natural?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

Below just for your reference, so you don't have to keep looking back and forth on the Scripture verse. :)

And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another—men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was [their] fitting retribution.
Romans 1:27
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition

No. I debated this many times in the past. I do not know of any verse in my bible that says anything about homosexuality. As I said earlier, the Bible does not address it the way we define homosexual relationships today. We can go verse by verse and it does not apply, ever. Both NT and OT if you wish even.
 
No. I debated this many times in the past. I do not know of any verse in my bible that says anything about homosexuality. As I said earlier, the Bible does not address it the way we define homosexual relationships today. We can go verse by verse and it does not apply, ever. Both NT and OT if you wish even.
Dear KittyLinda,
First what Bible do you use, or can I assume it's the Amplified since that is what you used in your verse reference before?
Second: What is the difference in definition between a homosexual relationship during the times Scripture was written and today?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
 
No. I debated this many times in the past. I do not know of any verse in my bible that says anything about homosexuality. As I said earlier, the Bible does not address it the way we define homosexual relationships today. We can go verse by verse and it does not apply, ever. Both NT and OT if you wish even.

Romans chapter 1 did talk about unnatural sexual desires from both women and men. The reason behind this unnatural inclination, as the book of Romans pointed out, was because generations ago, mankind worshipped idols rather than God. They abandoned God so God gave up on them and allowed them to pursue whatever they wanted, including homosexuality.

Romans 1:21-27 NLT Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles. So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved. Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done.

It is apparent to me that homosexuality began long ago, and that behavior can influence the genetic makeup of future generations. If you see homosexuality as genetic, it is most likely because it was practised generations earlier and is passed down genetically. Many illnesses are passed down genetically as well but that does not make them good things. The origin of homosexuality is unnatural and a sin in God's eyes. Be freed from it before such sin destroys you.
 
No. I debated this many times in the past. I do not know of any verse in my bible that says anything about homosexuality. As I said earlier, the Bible does not address it the way we define homosexual relationships today. We can go verse by verse and it does not apply, ever. Both NT and OT if you wish even.

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth" (Genesis 1:26).

He (Jesus Christ the Son) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation (Colossians 1:15).

For who He foreknew,
He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren (Rom 8:29).

My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you, (Galatians 4:19).


He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked (1 John 2:6).

And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man (1 Corinthians 15:49).

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionists will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:9-10).

If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them (Leviticus 20:13)

In time we overcome the lusts of the flesh as we mature to live in the Spirit by Christ being formed in us as we walk with His Spirit.

We overcome our temporal lusts and find a more fulfilling life of love by living in communion with GOD.

In the name of the Lord Jesus,........may GOD bless
 
Dear KittyLinda,
First what Bible do you use, or can I assume it's the Amplified since that is what you used in your verse reference before?
Second: What is the difference in definition between a homosexual relationship during the times Scripture was written and today?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

Nick. I usually trust and use the New King James Version (NKJV). Probably, I should not have used that bible.

NKJV says “leaving the natural use.” So, they were heterosexuals by nature, even according to the King James bible. Do you know what this means? if gays/lesbians were to marry or date the opposite sex, it would be also leaving the natural use. Just think about that, please. That is also a ‘sin.’

I am in the middle, because I am attracted to both men and women. It gets more complicated with bi-sexual individuals. A bi-sexual person is gay who can be in heterosexual relationships, but it is not 50/50 as some imagine, and we do not have it any easier than gays/lesbians. I just hate it when people tell me I am lucky because I can date all people in the world. It is not like that, because I often date women, not men, despite being in a 'straight' relationship myself.

I do not know what was a homosexual relationship during the times Scripture was written. I was not there. The bible does not record it. I said it already several times. Nowadays, we date and our concepts about marriage, or relationships are very different. During biblical times, arranged marriage was the custom of that culture, but that is not how we do it here. I thank the lord for it. I would not want to have an arranged marriage.

P.S. do you prefer to be called Christ4Ever, or nick since you always mention your name?
 
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth" (Genesis 1:26).

He (Jesus Christ the Son) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation (Colossians 1:15).

For who He foreknew,
He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren (Rom 8:29).

My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you, (Galatians 4:19).


He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked (1 John 2:6).

And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man (1 Corinthians 15:49).

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionists will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:9-10).

If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them (Leviticus 20:13)

In time we overcome the lusts of the flesh as we mature to live in the Spirit by Christ being formed in us as we walk with His Spirit.

We overcome our temporal lusts and find a more fulfilling life of love by living in communion with GOD.

In the name of the Lord Jesus,........may GOD bless

What does Genesis 1:26, Colossians 1:15, Galatians 4:19, 1 John 2:6, 1 Corinthians 15:49 has to do with the OP or what we are saying here.

I’ll move to 1 Corinthians 6:9. At least it seems that what you or others are using to support you claim.

Lots of bible translations say men who have sex with men, or sodomites, or male prostitutes. The story of Sodom has nothing do with gay/lesbian relationships. Gays/lesbians do not rape, or use violence. Gay relationships are just like all heterosexual relationships. They build families and live in peace. They harm absolutely, nobody.

Greek: arsenokoitai

“That word is an unusual word. It’s a new word; we don’t know of any other instances of the word until Paul coins the word in 1 Corinthians 6 and 1 Timothy 1. It’s a compound word: “arsen” means man and “koite” or “koitas” or “koitai”—depending on a verb or a noun—means bed. It’s men who bed with other men.” – Kevin DeYoung (PhD, University of Leicester) is the senior pastor at Christ Covenant Church in Matthews, North Carolina, and assistant professor of systematic theology at Reformed Theological Seminary, Charlotte. He serves as board chairman of the Gospel Coalition and blogs at DeYoung, Restless, and Reformed. He is the author of several books, including Just Do Something; Crazy Busy; and The Biggest Story. Kevin and his wife, Trisha, have nine children.

As you just read, we do not know much about this word, so we must understand it within the context, which is far more important that just throwing verses from these bible versions that suit you. It also does not say anything about us, women.

As for Leviticus 20:13. As I said before, let's try to not kill each other. By the way, lots of people in the LGBTQ are trained in self-defense and trust me some of them just wait for someone to mess up with them. They have had it, and no longer wish to be victims. They have had enough.

This verse does not mention women, so at least I am thinking now that you do not want to kill me when I walk besides you, and you probably think lesbianism is ok? Or you have to tell me what is your way of deciding how this single verse also applies to women? And are you going to suggest that we also must kill those who commit adultery? Also tell me how an OT law applies here, but eating shrimp is ok? Do you also shave your beard?

Good try, but we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. (Romans 7:4-6) But let me show you what actually applies today:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. (Ephesians 6:5)

Any of you here wish to have slaves? Let’s vote on it, shall we? And why not? It is biblical.

I’ll say it so people do not just go on the rage-mode and try to kill me already. I am not saying homosexuality is a sin or not. I just wanted to say that these verses are way more debatable than you ever think.
 
Romans chapter 1 did talk about unnatural sexual desires from both women and men. The reason behind this unnatural inclination, as the book of Romans pointed out, was because generations ago, mankind worshipped idols rather than God. They abandoned God so God gave up on them and allowed them to pursue whatever they wanted, including homosexuality.

Romans 1:21-27 NLT Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles. So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved. Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done.

It is apparent to me that homosexuality began long ago, and that behavior can influence the genetic makeup of future generations. If you see homosexuality as genetic, it is most likely because it was practised generations earlier and is passed down genetically. Many illnesses are passed down genetically as well but that does not make them good things. The origin of homosexuality is unnatural and a sin in God's eyes. Be freed from it before such sin destroys you.

It says turned against the natural way. This also happens in nature or are also these animals of the devil?

That is just like saying do not experience with the same sex, because you want to try. Gays/lesbians can't be with the opposite sex not because they choose not to. It is because that is their nature. I am not sure what is so difficult to understand about this.
 
If I may interject another thought -- two men cannot produce a child together -- biologically impossible // two women cannot produce a child together -- biologically impossible. A man / woman combination Can produce a child together.

There is Always 'choice' involved with having a sexually intimate relationship with another person -- always -- saying "no" is perfectly okay.
 
What does Genesis 1:26, Colossians 1:15, Galatians 4:19, 1 John 2:6, 1 Corinthians 15:49 has to do with the OP or what we are saying here.

I’ll move to 1 Corinthians 6:9. At least it seems that what you or others are using to support you claim.

Lots of bible translations say men who have sex with men, or sodomites, or male prostitutes. The story of Sodom has nothing do with gay/lesbian relationships. Gays/lesbians do not rape, or use violence. Gay relationships are just like all heterosexual relationships. They build families and live in peace. They harm absolutely, nobody.

Greek: arsenokoitai

“That word is an unusual word. It’s a new word; we don’t know of any other instances of the word until Paul coins the word in 1 Corinthians 6 and 1 Timothy 1. It’s a compound word: “arsen” means man and “koite” or “koitas” or “koitai”—depending on a verb or a noun—means bed. It’s men who bed with other men.” – Kevin DeYoung (PhD, University of Leicester) is the senior pastor at Christ Covenant Church in Matthews, North Carolina, and assistant professor of systematic theology at Reformed Theological Seminary, Charlotte. He serves as board chairman of the Gospel Coalition and blogs at DeYoung, Restless, and Reformed. He is the author of several books, including Just Do Something; Crazy Busy; and The Biggest Story. Kevin and his wife, Trisha, have nine children.

As you just read, we do not know much about this word, so we must understand it within the context, which is far more important that just throwing verses from these bible versions that suit you. It also does not say anything about us, women.

As for Leviticus 20:13. As I said before, let's try to not kill each other. By the way, lots of people in the LGBTQ are trained in self-defense and trust me some of them just wait for someone to mess up with them. They have had it, and no longer wish to be victims. They have had enough.

This verse does not mention women, so at least I am thinking now that you do not want to kill me when I walk besides you, and you probably think lesbianism is ok? Or you have to tell me what is your way of deciding how this single verse also applies to women? And are you going to suggest that we also must kill those who commit adultery? Also tell me how an OT law applies here, but eating shrimp is ok? Do you also shave your beard?

Good try, but we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. (Romans 7:4-6) But let me show you what actually applies today:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. (Ephesians 6:5)

Any of you here wish to have slaves? Let’s vote on it, shall we? And why not? It is biblical.

I’ll say it so people do not just go on the rage-mode and try to kill me already. I am not saying homosexuality is a sin or not. I just wanted to say that these verses are way more debatable than you ever think.

Hi Kitty, there's a lot in other posts of yours that you take a bit of stick about but which I can really relate to and I am behind you and agree with what you say. But on this one, sorry, but I'm not.

This is one subject that I struggle to agree with God on. If two of the same sex love each other, where's the problem? Well the problem is that despite what I might think, God doesn't like it. I don't know why and I'm not proposing even for a second to lecture him on morality. For me if God doesn't like it, I don't like it. Simple as.

If that makes me a homophobe, I'm a homophobe. I actually do like and love and want to reach out to the the gay community and tell them that Jesus loves them, loves them to bits, died for them, wants to draw them into his is care and and protection, just as He did with me xxx
 
Being attracted to another person happens in life -- it's how a person responds To that attraction that makes the difference.

You might also look back at Genesis -- God Could have created people with the ability to have a sexual relationship with either sex and have children that way. But God created us the way He did -- man and then woman and the body parts to fit together to produce children together. That's just the way it is. AND marriage is the Only relationship designed For the physical expression Of love through sex. Everyone else is to be celebate.
 
And there are Many ways to express love to another person other than through sexual intimacy. This culture is So conditioned to include a sexually intimate relationship as the sole way to express 'love', that it gets sickening.
 
It says turned against the natural way. This also happens in nature or are also these animals of the devil?

That is just like saying do not experience with the same sex, because you want to try. Gays/lesbians can't be with the opposite sex not because they choose not to. It is because that is their nature. I am not sure what is so difficult to understand about this.


You bring up the world of animals. Do you believe that people are simply part of the animal world? That we - people - are Not created special? We are created to be able to make choices.
 
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