"The Jesus the Preachers Don't Want us to Know"

[Rev Autrey]

We as Christian's have not preached Jesus as God in our Christain Churchases for so long that hardly anyone believes it anymore. In fact, it has been at lest 1700 years. So no wonder very few people will even allow their minds to consider the thought. But Jesus is God, the one true God; the one who came and died for the sins of the world. It was Jesus himself who put the thought in our minds, just the way he did for Thomas in the Upper Room when he called Jesus My Lord and MY God.

Now let's look at some Scriptures to prove this is true.

In Matthew 21:5 Matthew quotes YHWH God as saying this of himself through the prophet Isaiah: "Tell the people of Jerusalem, 'Look, your King is coming to you. He is humble, riding on a donkey, even on a donkey's colt.'"
What I mean is, the people of Jerusalem had always considered YYWH God as their King. And this was the anticipation of most Jerusalem dwellers in Jesus day. It is stated this way in Psalm 45: "Beautiful words stir my heart. I will recite a lovely poem to the King … . Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. … Therefore God has anointed you, pouring out the oil of joy on you more than on anyone else." And since the word Christ means "the anointed one," this verse can be translated, "Therefore God has poured out oil on you and made you Christ."

But as I said, hardly anyone believes it anymore. This fulfilled the prophecy quoted in Matthew 21:42:

"The stone that the builders rejected
has now become the cornerstone.
This is the Lord's doing and it is
wonderful to see."

The builders for us are the Church leaders of our day.

And the stone spoken of, here, that the builders rejected, is Jesus!

This prophecy continues in verse 44: "Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed." This means that there can be no salvation for anyone who will no say that Jesus is God.

In Psalm 118:24-25 David said this of YHWH God: "This is the day the Lord has made. We will rejoice and be glad in it. Please Lord. Please save us." The phrase "Please Lord. Please save us" is translated "Hosanna" in the New Testament. It literally means "God save me." And this is what the people were saying to Jesus in Matthew 21:9 as he road down that dusty road to Jerusalem and his clash with the Jewish rulers, "God save me." This is why the Jewish rulers got so angry with Jesus: He would not stop the people from saying it.

The Psalmist continues in verses 26-29: "Bless the one who come as God. We bless the house of the Lord. The Lord is God, shining upon us. Take the sacrifice and bind it with cords on the alter. You are, my God
and I will praise you! You are my God, and I will exalt you! Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good! His faithful love endures forever."

In Malachi 3:1 we read: "Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. Then the Lord God you are seeking will suddenly come to his Temple. He is the messenger of the New Covenant, whom you look for so eagerly, and he is surely coming," says the Lord God." According to Luke 1:4 the messenger YHWH God sent to prepare his way was John the Baptist, a cousin of Jesus and about six months older. And the one to whom the Spirit of the Lord came to in wilderness.

Notice that under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit David used the terms (he and him") when speaking of Jesus as God.

See, God is a single person like us. (Deut. 6:4) (Mark 12:32) He has to be because we are made in him image, and we are single persons. Otherwise, we wouldn't be in his image. This means that the Trinity is not in God dividing himself into 2 or 3 parts. The Trinity is in the way he speaks about himself when he speaks to us. Stated otherwise, God speaks to us in Trinitarian form. That is to say, God has two other names besides Jesus: the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

So when Jesus says the Father sent me, or I go to the Father, he is speaking of himself by his other name. The same is true when he speaks of the Holy Spirit.

See, what God is doing is revealing (John 17:6) his other 2 names to us so we can get to know him better. This is what people do when they like you, they give you other not so well known facts about themselves.

And this is what I am doing for you as I write this post. Jesus, through me, is revealing to you some not so well known facts about himself that you have not heard before.

Remember when Phillip asked Jesus to show him the Father? Jesus replied: "Have I been with you all this time, Phillip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. … The Father and I are the same person: Translated: the Father is my other name.

I will have more to say on this subject the next time!


Rev. Autrey

 

[Samson2020]

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever......." "Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath
anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

Now this Jesus was made to be an High Priest after the order of Melchezidec "For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining
to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:" "And no man takes this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. So also Christ
glorified not himself to be MADE A HIGH PRIEST; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, today have I begotten thee." "As he saith also in another place
Thou ART A PRIEST FOR EVER AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHEZIDEC." "Though he were a Son LEARNED HE OBEDIENCE by the things which he suffered;
And being MADE PERFECT, HE BECAME THE AUTHOR OF ETERNAL SALVATION, unto all them that obey him; CALLED OF GOD a HIGH PRIEST after the
order of Melchizedec.

Now this Jesus who was made an high Priest "Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, for his own sins, then for the peoples:
for this he did once when he offered up himself." To who? Himself or his Father? A priest offers up sacrifices to God not himself.

So in this narrative Jesus is a High priest after the order of Melchezidec who offered himself up to God as a scarifice for the sin of the world, and remains
a High Priest unto God according to scripture. He is a Son whom God hath declared to be a God, So it is obvious that he became a God because God said so.
He was perfected by the things he suffered and then BECAME the author of eternal salvation.
Jesus is the Son of God who is a God as God his Father hath given him life to have within himself just as the Father hath life within himself.
John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he GIVEN to the Son to have life in himself."

My obvious questions would be why would Jesus need to go through all this if he were God? And why does the Bible itself in plain english say he is not
the ONLY TRUE GOD, but is the Son of God who became a God by receiving life within himself from his Father. This must also of necessity mean
that he did not have that life within himself until his Father gave it to him. So how could he be the only TRUE GOD?

When one believes their spirituality has revealed something to them that doesn't line up with the rest of scripture they must reevaluate their position
or remain in error. There is nothing wrong with being wrong as we are all wrong about something as we are all still growing, but we cannot turn a blind
eye to the facts presented to us in the word of God. Unless ones conscience has been seared with a hot iron and continues to teach doctrines of devils.

The information is there from Hebrews 5-7 you decide.

 

[Trevor]

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever......." "Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath
anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

Now this Jesus was made to be an High Priest after the order of Melchezidec "For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining
to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:" "And no man takes this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. So also Christ
glorified not himself to be MADE A HIGH PRIEST; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, today have I begotten thee." "As he saith also in another place
Thou ART A PRIEST FOR EVER AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHEZIDEC." "Though he were a Son LEARNED HE OBEDIENCE by the things which he suffered;
And being MADE PERFECT, HE BECAME THE AUTHOR OF ETERNAL SALVATION, unto all them that obey him; CALLED OF GOD a HIGH PRIEST after the
order of Melchizedec.

Now this Jesus who was made an high Priest "Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, for his own sins, then for the peoples:
for this he did once when he offered up himself." To who? Himself or his Father? A priest offers up sacrifices to God not himself.

So in this narrative Jesus is a High priest after the order of Melchezidec who offered himself up to God as a scarifice for the sin of the world, and remains
a High Priest unto God according to scripture. He is a Son whom God hath declared to be a God, So it is obvious that he became a God because God said so.
He was perfected by the things he suffered and then BECAME the author of eternal salvation.
Jesus is the Son of God who is a God as God his Father hath given him life to have within himself just as the Father hath life within himself.
John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he GIVEN to the Son to have life in himself."

My obvious questions would be why would Jesus need to go through all this if he were God? And why does the Bible itself in plain english say he is not
the ONLY TRUE GOD, but is the Son of God who became a God by receiving life within himself from his Father. This must also of necessity mean
that he did not have that life within himself until his Father gave it to him. So how could he be the only TRUE GOD?

When one believes their spirituality has revealed something to them that doesn't line up with the rest of scripture they must reevaluate their position
or remain in error. There is nothing wrong with being wrong as we are all wrong about something as we are all still growing, but we cannot turn a blind
eye to the facts presented to us in the word of God. Unless ones conscience has been seared with a hot iron and continues to teach doctrines of devils.

The information is there from Hebrews 5-7 you decide.

That is a very Jehovah's Witness outlook Samson. They changed the words 'and the Word was God' to, 'and the Word was a God', it seems that you agree.

 

[Samson2020]

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever...

How do you get past this verse with a clear conscience?

John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he GIVEN to the Son to have life in himself."

And this one too? They are 2 different entities. I changed nothing it is word for word scripture. And John 5:26 are the words of Jesus himself.

 

[Trevor]

How do you get past this verse with a clear conscience?


And this one too? They are 2 different entities. I changed nothing it is word for word scripture. And John 5:26 are the words of Jesus himself.

Hi Samson,
You quote a scripture and I retaliate with 'And the Word was God', John 1:1 that is also from scripture and Thomas said, John 20:28,'my Lord and my God!' Then Jesus told him, " Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen me and yet have belieed."
Jesus didn't refute what Thomas had claimed, in fact he agreed. I believe there are to schools of thought on this.

 

[B-A-C]

You can't "with" someone, unless it is someone else.

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:14; And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Rev 19:13; He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Rev 3:21; 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

You can't be "upon" someone, unless it is someone else.

Matt 3:16; After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
Mark 1:10; Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him;
Luke 3:22; and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."
John 1:32; John testified saying, "I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him.

"our" is not a singular word pertaining to one single person.

Gen 1:26; Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

 

[Samson2020]

Jesus didn't refute what Thomas had claimed, in fact he agreed.

I would request where you see Jesus agreeing with what doubting Thomas said.
John 20:31 "But these are written, that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, The Son of God: and that believing ye might have life through his name.

You quote a scripture and I retaliate with

But never address the verses quoted. Because they cannot be refuted.

 

[Samson2020]

You can't "with" someone, unless it is someone else.

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:14; And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Rev 19:13; He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Rev 3:21; 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

You can't be "upon" someone, unless it is someone else.

Matt 3:16; After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
Mark 1:10; Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him;
Luke 3:22; and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."
John 1:32; John testified saying, "I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him.

We are in agreement on this one.
A High Priest unto God for ever but yet also God himself? Really? where do they come up with that deception and swallow it hook line and sinker.

 

[B-A-C]

John 20:28; Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
John 20:29; Jesus *said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[Trevor]

I would request where you see Jesus agreeing with what doubting Thomas said.
John 20:31 "But these are written, that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, The Son of God: and that believing ye might have life through his name.



But never address the verses quoted. Because they cannot be refuted.

I have read the scriptures again and I am convinced that Jesus is God, we will, I fear, never agree, so bless you Samson we will have agree to disagree on this one.

 

[B-A-C]

We Christians can be "sons" of God (lowercase s) .

But there is only one "Son" of God (uppercase S)

John 1:12; But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Jesus didn't "become" the Son of God. He was always the Son of God.

If a black man has a son, the son is black. If a hispanic man has a son, the son is Hispanic. If God has a son, the Son is God.

Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born... how can a virgin have a baby?

Matt 1:20; But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Matt 1:23; "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."
Matt 1:24; And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,
Matt 1:25; but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

Luke 1:34; Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
Luke 1:35; The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

Jesus is called the Son of God "for that reason". He was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

Isa 7:14; "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

 

[Samson2020]

John 20:29; Jesus *said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

But yet no man hath seen God at any time. His affirmation was to the fact that Thomas believed he was risen from the dead. He never says Thomas your right I am
the only true God. In fact he continually refers to himself as the Son of God. And says that life eternal is to know "THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ
whom thou (God) hast sent."

For God so loved the world that he SENT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON........

John 20:25 "The other disciples therefore said unto him (Thomas) We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the prints of the nails,
and put my finger into the prints of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."
Believe what? Believe that he was risen from the dead as the disciples had reported to him.

 

[B-A-C]

But yet no man hath seen God at any time.

Isn't it interesting that this verse was written before "the world" had seen Jesus? Way back in the "first" chapter of John.

John 1:18; No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

Isn't it also interesting this verse says He is "the only begotten God" who is in the Father.

Now let us move ahead 14 chapters.

John 14:7; "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."
John 14:8; Philip *said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
John 14:9; Jesus *said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

[NLT]
John 1:18; No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.

 

[Samson2020]

But there is only one "Son" of God (uppercase S)

Agreed as he is the only BEGOTTEN Son of the Father.

Jesus didn't "become" the Son of God. He was always the Son of God.

Heb 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE? And again, I will be to him a Father,
and he shall be to me a Son?" If he was always the Son of God why does God tell us that there was a day in the which he was begotten?

"For as the Father hath life within himself, so hath he GIVEN unto the Son to have life within himself." And hath GIVEN HIM authority to execute judgement also,
because he is the Son of man."

My only observation here is when did God give Jesus this life and authority? And if it was given to Jesus by God, as scripture states ,how do you see it
as God gave this to himself?

 

[Samson2020]

John 1:18; No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

What Bible are you reading from? Unless you mis quoted the verse you just said that God was begotten. God Is, was, and always will be. So how
does your translation say he was begotten?

So God in your translation became a man to explain himself??? As opposed to indwelling Jesus and reconciling the world by telling Jesus what to say?

 

[B-A-C]

Which version would you like? They all say the same thing to me.

John 1:18
(AMPC) No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known]. [Pro_8:30]
(ASV) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(CSB) No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him.
(GNB) No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is the same as God and is at the Father's side, he has made him known.
(Greek NT TR) θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο
(GW) No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made him known.
(HCSB) No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son— the One who is at the Father's side— He has revealed Him.
(ISV) No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.
(KJV) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(KJVA) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(MKJV) No one has seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(MSG) No one has ever seen God, not so much as a glimpse. This one-of-a-kind God-Expression, who exists at the very heart of the Father, has made him plain as day.
(NAS77) No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
(NASB) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
(NIrV) No one has ever seen God. But God, the one and only Son, is at the Father's side. He has shown us what God is like.
(NIV) No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
(NLT) No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.
(RV) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

[Samson2020]

That is a very Jehovah's Witness outlook Samson. They changed the words 'and the Word was God' to, 'and the Word was a God', it seems that you agree.

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever......." "Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath
anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

It would seem from these two verses that they are right. The oil of gladness above thy fellows? Fellows= comrades, brethren Biblically. Are we brothers of God
or sons of God?

 

[B-A-C]

It would seem from these two verses that they are right. The oil of gladness above thy fellows? Fellows= comrades, brethren Biblically. Are we brothers of God
or sons of God?

We are brothers with the Son, and sons of the Father.

 

[Samson2020]

We are brothers with the Son, and sons of the Father.

I agree with that statement completely. And cannot then comprehend why some would have our brother to be also our Father.

 

[B-A-C]

I agree with that statement completely. And cannot then comprehend why some would have our brother to be also our Father.

The way that is worded, I agree with you. I do NOT agree with modalism @Rev Autry and a few others.

https://www.theopedia.com/modalism

Sabellianism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Modalistic Monarchianism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Post #6 above was to address this.