"The Jesus the Preachers Don't Want us to Know"

[Samson2020]

It would seem we are making a little progress so I will ask of you to tell me what you believe Jesus means by this, which God gave him in the Revelation.

Rev 3:14 "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; these things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness,
THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD...."

If God tells Jesus here that he is the beginning of the creation of God, how does that make him equal to God? And how would he then be the Son of God
who has always existed according to post 11?

Jesus didn't "become" the Son of God. He was always the Son of God.

 

[B-A-C]

Creation didn't always exist. The physical universe that we see, feel, smell and touch didn't always exist. It was created.
God always existed. Even before "creation" (the physical universe, heavens and earth).
But when creation was created. Jesus was the "first-born" of creation. That doesn't mean He didn't exist before then.

In fact He couldn't have created creation.. if He didn't exist before creation.

John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Col 1:15; He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17; He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

 

[Samson2020]

Jesus was the "first-born" of creation. That doesn't mean He didn't exist before then.

, the firstborn of all creation.

The question then becomes what was he before he was the first born of all creation.

 

[B-A-C]

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

John 1:14; And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:15; John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"

If John the Baptist was 5 or 6 months older than Jesus, how did Jesus exist "before" him?

Luke 1:24; After these days Elizabeth his wife became pregnant, and she kept herself in seclusion for five months, saying,
Luke 1:36; "And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month.

 

[Rev Autrey]

.
He was perfected by the things he suffered and then BECAME the author of eternal salvation.
Jesus is the Son of God who is a God as God his Father hath given him life to have within himself just as the Father hath life within himself.
John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he GIVEN to the Son to have life in himself."

My obvious questions would be why would Jesus need to go through all this if he were God? And why does the Bible itself in plain english say he is not
the ONLY TRUE GOD, but is the Son of God who became a God by receiving life within himself from his Father. This must also of necessity mean
that he did not have that life within himself until his Father gave it to him. So how could he be the only TRUE GOD?

When one believes their spirituality has revealed something to them that doesn't line up with the rest of scripture they must reevaluate their position
or remain in error. There is nothing wrong with being wrong as we are all wrong about something as we are all still growing, but we cannot turn a blind
eye to the facts presented to us in the word of God. Unless ones conscience has been seared with a hot iron and continues to teach doctrines of devils.

The information is there from Hebrews 5-7 you decide.

Dear Samson 2020:

I will be as gentle with this as I can because Jesus loves you, too.

In Isaiah 9:6 we read of Jesus: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, and the Mighty God. …" That is to say, the child that was born to us that Christmas day was God, and no amount of human reasoning can change it.

See, what you are doing wrong is not understanding God. See, God is a single person like us. (Deut. 6:4) (Mark 12:32) He has to be because we are made in him image, and we are single persons. This means that the Trinity is not in God dividing himself into 2 or 3 parts. The Trinity is in the way he speaks about himself when he speaks to us. Stated otherwise, God speaks to us in Trinitarian form. That is to say, God has two other names besides Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

So when Jesus says the "Father sent me," or "I go to the Father," he is speaking of himself by his other name. The same is true when he speaks of the Holy Spirit.

But in all cases when God speaks to us in everyday words, he says "I am Jesus."

See, what God is doing is revealing (John 17:6) his other 2 names to us so we can get to know him better. This is what people do when they like you, they give you other not so well known facts about themselves.

Remember when Phillip asked Jesus to show him the Father? Jesus replied: "Have I been with you all this time, Phillip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. The Father and I are the same person: Translated: the Father is my other name.

Let's say it like this. We are so steeped in the traditions of human logic we have been taught over the generations that we try to maintain it at all coast, even in the face of the plain teachings of the Scriptures. See, even thou God has had a remnant of believers in every generation (Romans 9:27), mainline Christianity has not preached Jesus as God for over 1700 years. This means that most people will not accept Jesus as their God no matter what I say to them.

This also means that the term "Son of God" (Psalm 2) is only a metaphoric expression to explain Jesus' stay on earth as a man. See, this had never been done before and never will be done again. So for the most part, it is hard for us to bring our minds to admit that such a thing is true. This is why he used the term "Son of God" over and over again.

So let's not resort to name calling as you have just done to condemn those who only repeat to you what the prophets of old said under the inspiration of God's Spirit. And too, let's not be so anxious to condemn the glorious words that Elizabeth and Jesus' mother, Mary, said about Mary's son Jesus at his birth.

And again, let's not be so anxious to call what Thomas called Jesus in the Upper Room as being of the devil. Such a thing is not good for a Christian to do.

In Luke 1:39-45 we read of Jesus as God. "At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my God should come to me? As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord God would fulfill his promises to her!”

Specifically, notice that Elizabeth called Mary The Mother of God, something that I employ you to keep in mind!

Mary responded in verses 46-50:"My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me. Holy is his name Jesus." This is why Thomas called Jesus "My Lord and MY God" in the Upper room. Then Jesus said to Thomas: "you believe because you have seen me, but blessed are they that have not seen me and yet they believe."

And again, notice that Mary calls her son Jesus God my Savior. And again notice that she also calls him the Mighty One. Both phrases agree with what we read in Isaiah 9:6. And also notice that what Thomas said about Jesus agrees with what is said in Isiah 9:6 also, something I also employ you to keep in mind.

So to answer your question, "Why would Jesus need to go through all this if he were God?" That's the point, as God he didn't have to. He could have let us remain sinners and be doomed for hell. Rather, he did it so we could be made righteous. It was the just dying for the unjust, and the righteousness dying for the unrighteous. This is what we see all through the Bible, especially in Isiah 53: "Who has believed our report? And to whom has Jesus revealed himself. … It was our weaknesses he carried and it was our sorrows that weighted him down. .. He was not punished for his own sins, but for ours. … He was beaten so we could be made whole. He was whipped so we could be healed. … Yet when his life is made an offering for our sins, he will be satisfied. And because of this many will be made righteous."

Said otherwise, the term "A God" is only an invention of those who do not want to worship Jesus, the one who made us and gives us life. And an invention by those who do not want to believe that Jesus is our long awaited God.

See, what I am saying to you is, God as Jesus loves us so much (John 3:16) that he took on a human body and came into his own creation to die in our place to make it possible for us to be saved and to live with him in heaven. This was the greatest act of love the world has ever seen, or ever will see. (John 15:13) So by us believing this, he becomes our Personal Savior, one who we can take our troubles to as we wait for his return.

If you care to respond to this message, I will have more to say to you next time!

God bless you, and stay safe!


Rev. Autrey

 

[Brother-Paul]

We are brothers with the Son, and sons of the Father.

I agree fully brother

I agree with that statement completely. And cannot then comprehend why some would have our brother to be also our Father.

The RCC call their ministers 'father'

Matthew 23:9 (NKJV)
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

Our Father, who art in Heaven, Hallowed, Holy is His Name...

 

[Brother-Paul]

Dear Samson 2020:

I will be as gentle with this as I can because Jesus loves you, too.

In Isaiah 9:6 we read of Jesus: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, and the Mighty God. …" That is to say, the child that was born to us that Christmas day was God, and no amount of human reasoning can change it.

See, what you are doing wrong is not understanding God. See, God is a single person like us. (Deut. 6:4) (Mark 12:32) He has to be because we are made in him image, and we are single persons. This means that the Trinity is not in God dividing himself into 2 or 3 parts. The Trinity is in the way he speaks about himself when he speaks to us. Stated otherwise, God speaks to us in Trinitarian form. That is to say, God has two other names besides Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

So when Jesus says the "Father sent me," or "I go to the Father," he is speaking of himself by his other name. The same is true when he speaks of the Holy Spirit.

But in all cases when God speaks to us in everyday words, he says "I am Jesus."

See, what God is doing is revealing (John 17:6) his other 2 names to us so we can get to know him better. This is what people do when they like you, they give you other not so well known facts about themselves.

Remember when Phillip asked Jesus to show him the Father? Jesus replied: "Have I been with you all this time, Phillip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. The Father and I are the same person: Translated: the Father is my other name.

Let's say it like this. We are so steeped in the traditions of human logic we have been taught over the generations that we try to maintain it at all coast, even in the face of the plain teachings of the Scriptures. See, even thou God has had a remnant of believers in every generation (Romans 9:27), mainline Christianity has not preached Jesus as God for over 1700 years. This means that most people will not accept Jesus as their God no matter what I say to them.

This also means that the term "Son of God" (Psalm 2) is only a metaphoric expression to explain Jesus' stay on earth as a man. See, this had never been done before and never will be done again. So for the most part, it is hard for us to bring our minds to admit that such a thing is true. This is why he used the term "Son of God" over and over again.

So let's not resort to name calling as you have just done to condemn those who only repeat to you what the prophets of old said under the inspiration of God's Spirit. And too, let's not be so anxious to condemn the glorious words that Elizabeth and Jesus' mother, Mary, said about Mary's son Jesus at his birth.

And again, let's not be so anxious to call what Thomas called Jesus in the Upper Room as being of the devil. Such a thing is not good for a Christian to do.

In Luke 1:39-45 we read of Jesus as God. "At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my God should come to me? As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord God would fulfill his promises to her!”

Specifically, notice that Elizabeth called Mary The Mother of God, something that I employ you to keep in mind!

Mary responded in verses 46-50:"My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me. Holy is his name Jesus." This is why Thomas called Jesus "My Lord and MY God" in the Upper room. Then Jesus said to Thomas: "you believe because you have seen me, but blessed are they that have not seen me and yet they believe."

And again, notice that Mary calls her son Jesus God my Savior. And again notice that she also calls him the Mighty One. Both phrases agree with what we read in Isaiah 9:6. And also notice that what Thomas said about Jesus agrees with what is said in Isiah 9:6 also, something I also employ you to keep in mind.

So to answer your question, "Why would Jesus need to go through all this if he were God?" That's the point, as God he didn't have to. He could have let us remain sinners and be doomed for hell. Rather, he did it so we could be made righteous. It was the just dying for the unjust, and the righteousness dying for the unrighteous. This is what we see all through the Bible, especially in Isiah 53: "Who has believed our report? And to whom has Jesus revealed himself. … It was our weaknesses he carried and it was our sorrows that weighted him down. .. He was not punished for his own sins, but for ours. … He was beaten so we could be made whole. He was whipped so we could be healed. … Yet when his life is made an offering for our sins, he will be satisfied. And because of this many will be made righteous."

Said otherwise, the term "A God" is only an invention of those who do not want to worship Jesus, the one who made us and gives us life. And an invention by those who do not want to believe that Jesus is our long awaited God.

See, what I am saying to you is, God as Jesus loves us so much (John 3:16) that he took on a human body and came into his own creation to die in our place to make it possible for us to be saved and to live with him in heaven. This was the greatest act of love the world has ever seen, or ever will see. (John 15:13) So by us believing this, he becomes our Personal Savior, one who we can take our troubles to as we wait for his return.

If you care to respond to this message, I will have more to say to you next time!

God bless you, and stay safe!


Rev. Autrey

Greeting Rev Autrey

I think you are using the white background, many of us use the dark one, as the glare is less and it is clearer to see.

Black text on a dark background is almost impossible to read, especially for those of us with eye sight issues.

Hope you do not mind me saying

brother-paul

I add in two colours as I am not sure what you see on a white background.

Greeting Rev Autrey

I think you are using the white background, many of us use the dark one, as the glare is less and it is clearer to see.

Black text on a dark background is almost impossible to read, especially for those of us with eye sight issues.

Hope you do not mind me saying

brother-paul

 

[Tanya]

We as Christian's have not preached Jesus as God in our Christain Churchases for so long that hardly anyone believes it anymore. In fact, it has been at lest 1700 years. So no wonder very few people will even allow their minds to consider the thought. But Jesus is God, the one true God; the one who came and died for the sins of the world. It was Jesus himself who put the thought in our minds, just the way he did for Thomas in the Upper Room when he called Jesus My Lord and MY God.

Now let's look at some Scriptures to prove this is true.

In Matthew 21:5 Matthew quotes YHWH God as saying this of himself through the prophet Isaiah: "Tell the people of Jerusalem, 'Look, your King is coming to you. He is humble, riding on a donkey, even on a donkey's colt.'"
What I mean is, the people of Jerusalem had always considered YYWH God as their King. And this was the anticipation of most Jerusalem dwellers in Jesus day. It is stated this way in Psalm 45: "Beautiful words stir my heart. I will recite a lovely poem to the King … . Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. … Therefore God has anointed you, pouring out the oil of joy on you more than on anyone else." And since the word Christ means "the anointed one," this verse can be translated, "Therefore God has poured out oil on you and made you Christ."

But as I said, hardly anyone believes it anymore. This fulfilled the prophecy quoted in Matthew 21:42:

"The stone that the builders rejected
has now become the cornerstone.
This is the Lord's doing and it is
wonderful to see."

The builders for us are the Church leaders of our day.

And the stone spoken of, here, that the builders rejected, is Jesus!

This prophecy continues in verse 44: "Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed." This means that there can be no salvation for anyone who will no say that Jesus is God.

In Psalm 118:24-25 David said this of YHWH God: "This is the day the Lord has made. We will rejoice and be glad in it. Please Lord. Please save us." The phrase "Please Lord. Please save us" is translated "Hosanna" in the New Testament. It literally means "God save me." And this is what the people were saying to Jesus in Matthew 21:9 as he road down that dusty road to Jerusalem and his clash with the Jewish rulers, "God save me." This is why the Jewish rulers got so angry with Jesus: He would not stop the people from saying it.

The Psalmist continues in verses 26-29: "Bless the one who come as God. We bless the house of the Lord. The Lord is God, shining upon us. Take the sacrifice and bind it with cords on the alter. You are, my God
and I will praise you! You are my God, and I will exalt you! Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good! His faithful love endures forever."

In Malachi 3:1 we read: "Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. Then the Lord God you are seeking will suddenly come to his Temple. He is the messenger of the New Covenant, whom you look for so eagerly, and he is surely coming," says the Lord God." According to Luke 1:4 the messenger YHWH God sent to prepare his way was John the Baptist, a cousin of Jesus and about six months older. And the one to whom the Spirit of the Lord came to in wilderness.

Notice that under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit David used the terms (he and him") when speaking of Jesus as God.

See, God is a single person like us. (Deut. 6:4) (Mark 12:32) He has to be because we are made in him image, and we are single persons. Otherwise, we wouldn't be in his image. This means that the Trinity is not in God dividing himself into 2 or 3 parts. The Trinity is in the way he speaks about himself when he speaks to us. Stated otherwise, God speaks to us in Trinitarian form. That is to say, God has two other names besides Jesus: the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

So when Jesus says the Father sent me, or I go to the Father, he is speaking of himself by his other name. The same is true when he speaks of the Holy Spirit.

See, what God is doing is revealing (John 17:6) his other 2 names to us so we can get to know him better. This is what people do when they like you, they give you other not so well known facts about themselves.

And this is what I am doing for you as I write this post. Jesus, through me, is revealing to you some not so well known facts about himself that you have not heard before.

Remember when Phillip asked Jesus to show him the Father? Jesus replied: "Have I been with you all this time, Phillip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. … The Father and I are the same person: Translated: the Father is my other name.

I will have more to say on this subject the next time!


Rev. Autrey

If this is true and Trinity is a lie then how when Jesus was baptized did God the Father speak from heaven and the Holy Spirit landed gently on Jesus in the form of a dove? "God" is one God IN three persons.

 

[Brother Paul]

In Deuteronomy 10:17 the Yah'Hoveh (the Lord who is) who revealed His true "shem" or essence to Moses (His true person translated name), we see Moses writes that this ONE AND ONLY YHVH is the Lord of lords. This means He alone is the one Lord above all others that are called lords. There is none else. David also (the man after God's own heart) who knew YHVH very personally in Psalm 136 verse 3 declares that this Yah'Hoveh IS the Lord of lords.

Now turn to Revelations 17:14 where we see that the Lamb will utterly defeat Satan and all his hosts....but why? What is the reason. It tells you clearly.....

Shalom in ha'Shem

Paul

 

[Brother Paul]

Deleted

 

[Andyindauk]

Best synonym of the Trinity that I ever heard is that it's akin to water. Water comes in three formats, water, ice and steam. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one but also separate and distinct. One of the rare recordings of all three members in the same place is Jesus's baptism,
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:16‭-‬17 NKJV

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greetings Andy

I have never heard a better example than the one you kindly remind us of.

Bless you brother

 

[PloughBoy]

This statement is to real "born from above" not change of mind christians, not taking on a new leaf christians, but "NEW CREATURES" Like from "HUMAN to ALIENS"!!! type. and if you are puzzle about that. I am not addressing you, ok.

Let me see if i can shine a little more light into the thought. Samson is saying, there always been the "Son of God" but there always has not been a "Jesus", which is a true statement. because He, Jesus is a New Creature, born off Mary, a new creation that has never existed before. Jesus is the SON of God wrap in flesh. The Son of God has never took on human form before or born of a woman before, or called Jesus, a human name but different. Jesus is the 1st born of His kind and [resurrected] and transforming into a glorious form that has never existed before] a brand New Creature going through a divine process. He was born from above, and born of water [Mary]womb, "We are "born from above" and "born of water"mothers womb!" we are "born of GOD := born from above". we will be like JESUS the Son of GOD who was wrap in the Flesh, The biggest problem we have, all of us Is..........We have no real concept of GOD because we are finite creatures in finite bodies with finite minds and it is no way possible we can comprehend the infinite incomprehensible GOD and the creature, he is shaping us to be in the exact image of HIS Son who was wrap up in the flesh and was name Jesus in that form and die on the cross and rose from the grave and transcended and took on a glorious transformation. And that image is way beyond our finite minds could reach or contain nuance.

I hope, I explain it, I do not like to explain this truth because i am not good at it, Samson does a good job at it, to present it and have the patience to convey it. but i try to stay away from it, Because the line is so close to JW doctrine but not the same. Big difference from JW thinking.

 

[Samson2020]

But Jesus is God, the one true God

John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE the only true God, AND Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent."

It would seem to me that this simple verse blows up your theory completely as Jesus himself says he was SENT by God and that God his and our Father
is the only TRUE GOD, not Jesus.
It was the Father that proclaimed Jesus to be a God in the Psalms and Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he(God) saith, O God ,thy throne is for ever and ever....."

Now if the Revelation of Jesus Christ was given to him by God Rev 1:1, by you saying that Jesus is the only true God you make God and Jesus liars. By you proclaiming that
Jesus is the only true God you make God a liar when he says he sent his Son into the world to pay the price for all sin. And you make Jesus a liar according to his own
words in John 10:36 "Say ye of him, who the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" They were
calling him a liar back then for saying he was the Son of God but we both know that Jesus never lied so if he said he was the Son of God then thats exactly what
he meant. There is no twisting of any of the above to get to Jesus is the only true God. That is fantasy construed by twisting scripture 2 Peter 3:16 "As also in all his
epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also
the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

We should clear the air a bit as I do not come at you, but I do come at your doctrine.

Luke 1:49

You inserted the name Jesus in this verse, it is not there and you do this because thats what you believe. It says "For he that is mighty hath done to me great
things; and holy is his name." Speaking about God our Father.

And again, notice that Mary calls her son Jesus God my Savior

Never happened. She never said her child Jesus was her savior. She said God was her savior because the Gospel had not been preached unto her as Jesus
was not yet born much less doing a ministry.

Luke 1:32 "He shall be great and, shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall GIVE unto HIM the throne of his Father David:."
You sir are twisting and adding to suit your doctrine and it is to say the least unsuitable.

"Why would Jesus need to go through all this if he were God?" That's the point, as God he didn't have to.

No. The point to it was that he learned obedience to his Father by the things that he suffered, and being perfected he BECAME the author of eternal
salvation to all who obey him. Heb 5:8-9,

If one becomes something, then by default they were not what they became before becoming.

Jesus is our long awaited God.

God is, has been, and always will be the only TRUE God. But Jesus as told to him by God in Rev 1:1, 3:14 that He (Jesus) is the BEGINNING of the CREATION of God.
So if God is telling the truth, and we both know he cannot lie, then he created Jesus. They are not one and the same and they are not equal as the lesser
is blessed by the greater. As Jesus himself said the Father is greater than I.

Lets look at Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born.... Jesus the child who grew in wisdom and stature, and favor with God and man.Luke 2:52
a son is given, small s signifying his humaness in order to provide us insight into how he could be called the descendant of David. Matthew 1:1
and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, Ok God says to Jesus O God thy
throne is for ever and ever, thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity therefore God, EVEN THY GOD hath anointed THEE with the oil of gladness
ABOVE THY FELLOWS. (We will come back to the fellows part at another time.) So if God pronounces Jesus to be a God and we who are to attain unto eternal life
are to obey him then he is a God as he has achieved that position according to his Father. What should a Son of God become according to the law of the seed?
A God? Counselor- we know that what the Holy Ghost in us tells us is from Jesus thus our counselor to bring us to a finishing of our faith to a point of near perfection.
Heb 12:2. The everlasting Father- This is where I will lose most of you who read this. Jesus was perfected by his Father and proclaimed to be a God. He(Jesus) then
became the only being that was allowed to baptize in the Holy Ghost( Matt 3:11) just as he received of his Father at the river Jordan (born again of the Spirit). He is called
the everlasting Father as he is the one who gives us life within ourselves just as the Father gave him life to have within himself. John 5:26 We are his bride, thus
when born again we are his seed, as he is his Fathers seed.
The Prince of Peace-Col 1:20 " And having made peace by the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile ALL THINGS unto himself, by him, I say, whether they be
things in earth or things in heaven."

To wrap it up in Hebrews 5 we see that the priesthood was changed when the Lord Jesus died. There was no more Levitical priesthood as sacrificing
of animals for the sin of the people was done away with. As the sacrifice of the Son destroyed the penalty for sin for all mankind.
We understand that Jesus is the New High Priest unto God, and he therefore cannot be the only true God if he is a high priest UNTO the only true God.

I pray that you sir will come to the knowledge of the truth that is in Jesus, as I know it is the Fathers will that you discover this, the only question is when.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mack]

This is an area that is very confusing to many, First, Jesus is the God of this world. Hence he is refereed to as the Father of the world. However, from Hebrew, the name of God is Elohim, which is to mean the Head of the Gods. This is not Jesus. Jesus constantly states that He does nothing unless commanded by the Father. He was the creator of the world but this He did under the direction of the Father.

So indeed Jesus is God, else he would not have survived as he atoned for us in Gethsemane where he bled from every pore. Effectively He is second only to the Father, and the Holy Ghost is to bear witness to us whilst in the state of mortality, that Jesus is the Christ, the very Son of God (the Father). Our prayers are directed to the Father but should be done in the name of Christ.

Also, confusing to many is where Jesus will say that He and the Father are one. Catholicism deemed that to mean that the Father, Christ and the Holy Ghost are one being. As people realised that something wasn't as it should be and split away from the church of Rome and started the reformist era, that one era was carried on by many. But Christ also said that He wanted the saints to be one. Thus one in purpose.

You might look at it that God is the author, and Christ the publisher of the Gospel. What is of most importance is that we recognise that it is through the sacrifice of Christ that we will have the opportunity to eternal life. But there are many who profess the name of Christ and deny His power, as so with the Father. They draw near with their lips but their heart is far from them.

Not all will hear the word of God in this life. Hence there will be the opportunity to hear the gospel once death comes to those. See 1 Peter 4 Vs 6. As a Christian, we each need to be on the path of really studying the scriptures and asking for understanding. The beauty of this is that as long as you are leading a good life and trying your best to love your fellow men, you will be blessed for that and will have the opportunity to accept the teachings of Christ in the next life. That is not to say that we shouldn't

There is so much mentioned in the Bible that is misconstrued or ignored altogether.

1 Peter 2:5, 9
2. Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Paul also talks about this

9. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy generation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous hlight:

Titus 2:14 reads

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Those verses are interesting because it again mentions a Holy Priesthood.. (Melchezideck). But that is addressed to all the saints. There were no priests as the world sees them today. Worthy individuals had the priesthood conferred upon them, either the Aaronic priesthood or the Melchezieck Priesthood.

Christ will come again soon. But a preparation will be needed by His servants to prepare the way. There needs to be a restoration of the gospel as John foresaw. The keys of the kingdom will need to be restored in order for this to happen, The angels that John saw coming to restore those things that were lost. God's house is a House of Order.

Christ is indeed the God of this world, He whom we should worship. But we should also remember that he does not rise above the Father, who sent him.

I know that this has gone a little off topic, but sometimes it can help to clarify some things.

 

[Brother-Paul]

This is an area that is very confusing to many, First, Jesus is the God of this world. Hence he is refereed to as the Father of the world. However, from Hebrew, the name of God is Elohim, which is to mean the Head of the Gods. This is not Jesus. Jesus constantly states that He does nothing unless commanded by the Father. He was the creator of the world but this He did under the direction of the Father.

So indeed Jesus is God, else he would not have survived as he atoned for us in Gethsemane where he bled from every pore. Effectively He is second only to the Father, and the Holy Ghost is to bear witness to us whilst in the state of mortality, that Jesus is the Christ, the very Son of God (the Father). Our prayers are directed to the Father but should be done in the name of Christ.

Also, confusing to many is where Jesus will say that He and the Father are one. Catholicism deemed that to mean that the Father, Christ and the Holy Ghost are one being. As people realised that something wasn't as it should be and split away from the church of Rome and started the reformist era, that one era was carried on by many. But Christ also said that He wanted the saints to be one. Thus one in purpose.

You might look at it that God is the author, and Christ the publisher of the Gospel. What is of most importance is that we recognise that it is through the sacrifice of Christ that we will have the opportunity to eternal life. But there are many who profess the name of Christ and deny His power, as so with the Father. They draw near with their lips but their heart is far from them.

Not all will hear the word of God in this life. Hence there will be the opportunity to hear the gospel once death comes to those. See 1 Peter 4 Vs 6. As a Christian, we each need to be on the path of really studying the scriptures and asking for understanding. The beauty of this is that as long as you are leading a good life and trying your best to love your fellow men, you will be blessed for that and will have the opportunity to accept the teachings of Christ in the next life. That is not to say that we shouldn't

There is so much mentioned in the Bible that is misconstrued or ignored altogether.

1 Peter 2:5, 9
2. Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Paul also talks about this

9. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy generation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous hlight:

Titus 2:14 reads

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Those verses are interesting because it again mentions a Holy Priesthood.. (Melchezideck). But that is addressed to all the saints. There were no priests as the world sees them today. Worthy individuals had the priesthood conferred upon them, either the Aaronic priesthood or the Melchezieck Priesthood.

Christ will come again soon. But a preparation will be needed by His servants to prepare the way. There needs to be a restoration of the gospel as John foresaw. The keys of the kingdom will need to be restored in order for this to happen, The angels that John saw coming to restore those things that were lost. God's house is a House of Order.

Christ is indeed the God of this world, He whom we should worship. But we should also remember that he does not rise above the Father, who sent him.

I know that this has gone a little off topic, but sometimes it can help to clarify some things.

Greetings brother

I appreciate how you are trying to explain what you have, may I just add another comment from scripture that may confuse what you are saying.

2 Corinthians 4:3-6 (NKJV)
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus' sake.
6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Satan is 'the god of the world', he is the prince of the air, the deceiver of souls, who is seeking to hinder God's work on earth.

Jesus is God the Son, the promised Messiah, the appointed one sent by God the Father, via the Holy Spirit, to be born of Mary, to correct the Jews of their errors, and to bring salvation to all. Jesus is the God of all saved souls, satan is the god of this world for all lost souls who belong to sin, the world and the devil.

Bless you.

 

[Brother Paul]

In Hebrews 1 we learn about YHVH, the Son/Word, who is the Creator whom angels worship...in Hebrews 2 we learn that Jesus was made a little lower than the angels....YHVH, the Son or Word, became INCARNATE in the man Messiah Jesus (the seed of a woman)...this way He is fully God yet fully man! As we fore-learn in Micah 5:2, the same man-child who was born in Bethlehem (a human) was the One who had been coming forth from everlasting (the Eternal).

 

[Rev Autrey]

Also, confusing to many is where Jesus will say that He and the Father are one. Catholicism deemed that to mean that the Father, Christ and the Holy Ghost are one being. As people realised that something wasn't as it should be and split away from the church of Rome and started the reformist era, that one era was carried on by many. But Christ also said that He wanted the saints to be one. Thus one in purpose.

Christ is indeed the God of this world, He whom we should worship. But we should also remember that he does not rise above the Father, who sent him.

Dear Mack, I am writing this response to tell you that Jesus loves you.

As you eluded to in your response, we as Christian's have not preached Jesus as God in our Christian Churches for about 1700 years. So I am not surprised that you don't believe in him as God. In fact, the very thought of it is condemned by most Christian Seminaries and Christian teachers. So no wonder the people are confused. But Jesus is God, the One true God, the creator of heaven and earth, and, and the one who came and died for the ins of the world.

Jesus said it this way in Isaiah 45:21-22: "... For there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other."

He said it this way through Paul in Romans 9:5: "... And Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. He is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise."

These verses were fulfilled by Jesus for us when it is said of Jesus in Matthew 1:21-23: "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, behold, a virgin shall be with child, and she shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

And this is the same God who expresses his love for you by giving you rain in due season, and by being your friend in times of need.

See, these Scriptures are as plain as Jesus intends to make them. But because we are who we are, we are inclined not to listen. As the people said in Luke 19:14, "We will not have this man to reign over us.”
Said otherwise, those who do not want to believe will not believe, no matter what they see in the Scriptures.

And again, as you said above, this has been going on for so long that we do not remember what the truth is anymore!

Actually, this belief system was started by Dr. Arius of Alexandria, Egypt who lived from 250 AD to 336 AD. To summarize this belief, Dr. Arius taught that Christ is a separate entity from the Father, and, therefore, Jesus is subordinate to the Father. That is to say, Jesus was created by the Father at some point in time. And that we do not pray to Jesus, but only to the Father. Of course he asserted, this is done with the blessings of the Son. This doctrine became known as Arianism, and has become a dominate thought in English and American religion.

Now you can believe it if you want to. It is your right in a free society. And it is your right as free Christian. But as you can see from the Scriptures above, it is directly opposite of what Jesus himself taught!

So I will close with what I said in my post:

God is a single person like us. (Deut. 6:4) (Mark 12:32) He has to be because we are made in his image, and we are single persons. Otherwise, we wouldn't be in his image. Let's say it like this. If a child saw 2-3 men all claiming to be his dad, no wonder he would be confused. And too, we saw him as a single person walking on the earth. This means that the Trinity is not in God dividing himself into 2 or 3 parts. The Trinity is in the way he speaks about himself when he speaks to us. That is to say, God has two other names besides Jesus, and he speaks of himself this way.

So when Jesus says the "Father sent me", or "I go to the Father," he is speaking of himself by his other name. The same is true when he speaks of the Holy Spirit. And when he says "In my Fathers house" he is speaking of himself, too. Only in the third person.

See, what God is doing is revealing (John 17:6) his other 2 names to us so we can get to know him better. This proves that he loves us and he wants us to love him back. Remember what Jesus said to Thomas in John 14: "If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!” Otherwise said, the Father is my other name!

See, Jesus through me is revealing to you some not so well known facts about himself that you have not heard before!

So Take Care and Stay safe.


Rev. Autrey

 

[Mack]

Dear Rev.

You have, I think, taken something I said in error. I have not said that God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one, but that Catholicism came up with that idea and many churches have followed that. God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are three separate and individual beings, one in purpose.

Some scriptures are confusing, possibly through mistranslation or by design. Never the less, Christ was the creator of the world under direction of the Father. So whilst Christ is God, a point that I have actually never denied, He is not Elohim, His Father. As Christ was created in spirit, as we all were, initially, the Father would be above the Son. So there really isn't any contradiction there. I worship Christ, I accept that He atoned for my Sins, I follow and serve Him, I preach Christ but accept that God, who begot Christ, is ultimately the author of and creator of all of us before the world was. Hence Christ always referred and gave credit to the Father who sent him. That does not detract from the fact that He is God. Remember, Elohim, the head of the Gods. All will be revealed at some point in the not too distant future.

I know that Jesus loves me. I have felt His presence on several occasions. I know that He loves you too.


Dear Brother Paul,

I have to disagree with you regarding Satan being the God of this world. He wants to be and has been given a long leash to confuse and pull man away from the notion of God and a life after death. He is the father of lies and evil doing, miserable and wants man to be miserable too. However, He knows who Christ is and who his father is, being a brother to Christ and us all. He can't override them and one day he will be cast out with those who follow him. God is still in control and only He knows when Christ shall be sent again, this time in Glory with His servants to rule on Earth and continue the last part of God's plan, to have the faithful endowed and sealed in families.

 

[B-A-C]

I have to disagree with you regarding Satan being the God of this world.

2Cor 4:3; And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
2Cor 4:4; in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.