The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !

[Brightfame52]

Romans 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

How can it be sincerely taught that scripture teaches that God loves all men without exception, when it specifically says of Esau, God Hated ?

And I got news for you, He did not only hate Esau, but all the workers of iniquity. Ps 5:5


5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

And they that work iniquity shall soon hear these words Matt 7:23


23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Yes, these and those in Ps 5:5 are the very same !

 

[B-A-C]

Do you think God always hated Esau from the start, or did Esau do something to cause this?

Heb 12:15 See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;
Heb 12:16 that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal.
Heb 12:17 For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.

Psa 5:5 The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity.

Do you think God hates these people before they actually commit the sin ( iniquity ) or after?

Mal 1:2 "I have loved you," says the LORD. But you say, "How have You loved us?" "Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" declares the LORD. "Yet I have loved Jacob;
Mal 1:3 but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and appointed his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness."

Gen 25:32 Esau said, "Behold, I am about to die; so of what use then is the birthright to me?"
Gen 25:34 Then Jacob gave Esau bread and lentil stew; and he ate and drank, and rose and went on his way. Thus Esau despised his birthright.

 

[Curtis]

God loves all men, but hates what men do. God loves man so much he gives them what they love which is darkness.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

 

[Brightfame52]

@B-A-C

Do you think God always hated Esau from the start, or did Esau do something to cause this?

Rom 9:11-13

1(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13;As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

 

[Curtis]

@B-A-C



Rom 9:11-13

1(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13;As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

The word, "hate" in this context means, "to love less"

Strongs concordance: mis-eh'-o
From a primary word μῖσος misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).

Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

To hate your family is to love them less than your love for God.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

God hating Esau means that God loved Jacob more than he loved Esau.

Why would God do that? Because Jacob sought after God, and Esau could care less about seeking after the Lord.

The conclusion is God loved Esau but He loved Jacob more.

 

[Rhema]

The word, "hate" in this context means, "to love less"

Strongs concordance: mis-eh'-o
From a primary word μῖσος misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).

Hi Curtis,

I have often wondered just where J. Strong got this impression of "love less" as an "extension" (an odd view that even Mounce adopted).

The actual Greek word used, as you noted, is μισέω (G3404) which just means "to hate," plain and simple.

I provide for you a LINK to the Liddell Scott Lexicon for G3403, where one can see that there is just no application of this verb to mean "love less." I rather think that Mr. Strong was trying to "cover" for Christ.

A. hate, e.g. Zeus hated (would not suffer) that...​

(The Cambridge Greek Lexicon adds, "detest, loath, resent," as well as "be appalled by")

I also provide for you a LINK to the Liddell Scott Lexicon for Strong's primary word μῖσος (misos).

A. hate, hatred:​

(The Cambridge Greek Lexicon adds "loathing" and "detestation.")

Again there is no indication whatsoever for even this word to imply "love less."

If there is any context, it would be to "not suffer" or "not permit" or "not let" (to the point of loathing) father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life, to override one's devotion to and implementation of the teachings of Jesus. I have found quite often that there are people who "suffer" Christianity to override or supplant the teachings of Jesus. And since I find this detestable (G3403) it is difficult at times to filter this out of my voice.

Strong did his best with the information he had available back then, but his definitions ought not to be taken as gospel.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[Brightfame52]

@Curtis

The conclusion is God loved Esau but He loved Jacob more.

False conclusion, scripture never stated God loved esau but hated Rom 9:13

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Mal 1:2-3

I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,

And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

 

[B-A-C]

scripture never stated God loved esau

But it does say God loves those who obey Him and keep His commandments.

John 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1Jn 3:24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Christ, and Christ abides in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Prov 8:17 "I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me.

John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

 

[Rhema]

But it does say God loves those who obey Him and keep His commandments.

Would the "ancestors" then have considered the birthright to be a commandment from God?

(Just musing here.)

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[th1bill]

Romans 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

How can it be sincerely taught that scripture teaches that God loves all men without exception, when it specifically says of Esau, God Hated ?

And I got news for you, He did not only hate Esau, but all the workers of iniquity. Ps 5:5


5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

And they that work iniquity shall soon hear these words Matt 7:23


23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Yes, these and those in Ps 5:5 are the very same !

Four Parts of Romans 8:29​

​

Our aim in this lesson is to understand four parts of Romans 8:29.

1. The connection with verse 28.
   "FOR whom he foreknew . . . "
2. The meaning of God's foreknowledge.
   "For whom he FOREKNEW, he also predestined . . . "
3. The aim of predestination for our good.
   " . . . to become conformed to the image of his Son . . . "
4. The aim of predestination for Christ's glory.
   " . . . that he might be the first-born among many brethren."

Some things we learn about Yehovah from the Self-Revealing Scriptures are of His existence outside of the Tome/Space Continuum. From the past 35 years of study, led by Ruah, the Holy Sprit, I now understand Predestination.

God knows the beginning from the end but how is that explained? Existing outside the Time/Space Continuum we live in, Yehovah knew more than 6,000 years ago that on 1/1/'90, Bill Taylor would sing in the New Year, only to leave unpaid to serve Him from that day forward.

Knowing my predetermination Yehovah predestined my Salvation.

 

[Brightfame52]

But it does say God loves those who obey Him and keep His commandments.

John 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1Jn 3:24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Christ, and Christ abides in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Prov 8:17 "I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me.

John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

scripture never stated God loved esau

 

[KingJ]

Romans 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

How can it be sincerely taught that scripture teaches that God loves all men without exception, when it specifically says of Esau, God Hated ?

And I got news for you, He did not only hate Esau, but all the workers of iniquity. Ps 5:5


5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

And they that work iniquity shall soon hear these words Matt 7:23


23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Yes, these and those in Ps 5:5 are the very same !

Expecting a Calvinist to properly read contentious scripture that if misinterpreted incriminates God as wicked. Imagine that.

Why don't YOU START WITH A SOUND EXPLANATION OF HOW PARTIALITY IS POSSIBLE BY A GOD WHO IS DEFINED AS ONE WHO IS RIGHTEOUS IN ALL HIS WAYS!!! Psalm 145:17

Until you do, as has been asked of you a MILLION TIMES, your threads and posts are nothing more than your biased and narrow minded indoctrinated view. Using this forum as a message board to harass Christians and stumble potential 'weak in their faith' readers.

Matt 18:6 was penned for people like YOU!! You push that partiality is fine. Teaching like yours is behind all racism. It stumbles people as it portrays God as partial!

Matt 18:6 But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

You should probably start taking swimming lessons?

 

[Brightfame52]

Jn 3:16 tells us of God's Love for the world, but never specifically states that God loved all mankind as individuals without exception, that has been read into the text by those who care little about the Truth of God.

And such a verse as Jn 3:16

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Must and should be explained by other verses of scripture that speaks on the same subject as God's Love of People.

First lets look at at an OT scripture that speaks to God's Love to a People Deut 7:6-8

6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

We find here something extremely important about an immutable God and His Love. That God's Love is set upon a people He chooses look at Deut 7:7

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Notice too that His Love is set upon the fewest of all people. This should be a big eye opener for us, God Loves not the masses of mankind, for those He Loves are the few of mankind.

Remember Jesus stated about finding the road that leads to life that few find it Matt 7:13-14

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Those few, are and will be those God Loved. So God so loved the world, means He loved a few , chosen ones in the world, His own special ones.

Jn 13:1

1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

The jews would have known from Deut 7 that God's Love was exclusive for only some, but what they did not know was that some was not limited to them, for God loved some as well of different people groups, outside of their race; but His Love was nevertheless limited to a certain people, but just not to a limited location or race, it was the world at large that this special loved and certain people would be located.

 

[Brightfame52]

@KingJ

Why don't YOU START WITH A SOUND EXPLANATION OF HOW PARTIALITY IS POSSIBLE BY A GOD WHO IS DEFINED AS ONE WHO IS RIGHTEOUS IN ALL HIS WAYS!!! Psalm 145:17

Why dont you start it ? I have done work already

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ



Why dont you start it ? I have done work already

Dodge more. I am glad calvinism has ambassadors like you, keep up the good work.

 

[KingJ]

The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception​

I can't believe that someone who calls themself a Christian can type a line like this. You are sick and I am wondering why you are not yet banned @Christ4Ever @Br. Bear?

 

[Brightfame52]

Dodge more. I am glad calvinism has ambassadors like you, keep up the good work.

You dodging work and dumping it on others

 

[KingJ]

You dodging work and dumping it on others

I am NOT the one teaching that God is partial! and thinking that everyone is too DUMB to grasp it is PURE EVIL.

I can give you a link to a site that allows debates if you want. But I know you will not come; they don't allow dodging.

 

[Curtis]

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Was Esau a part of the world that God loved?

 

[Rhema]

Was Esau a part of the world that God loved?

Hi Curtis,
I suspect you won't like his answer which I anticipate to be that "world" means the collective of the elect, and so Esau was not part of that world that God loved.

(But I guess we'll see the answer.)

Blessings,
Rhema