The Trinity - True or False

[Rob Cragg]

Jesus Gave up His Place at the Right Hand of the Father, To Come to earth and be born of the Virgin Mary. He became man or as is said the Son of Man.
There was only two things seperating Him from mortal man. The Virgin Birth, and He had Royal blood flowing through Him.
He actually did die as a Man that was His sacrafice for mandkind to pay for all sins. Those are two essential truths a person must believe or you can not be saved.
Now Jesus is back seated at the right side of God the Father. The Blessed Trinity Is made up of 3 persons, Who are all fully God but yet individual Spiritual Beings. This Is A thrid Belife that we must believe or you can not have Salvation.
There is God The Holy Spirit, God The Father, And Jesus the Son of God, but at the same time Fully God, many myself included that have a very hard and difficult time understanding, but Faith is fully believing not seeing. We believe it because God Said it in His Word the Bible.
Good Scripture to read to understand this is Matthew 27:11-66 and then Matthew 28:1-10, you will also find the accounts of this in
Mark 15:1-47 and 16:1-13; Luke All of Chapter 23 - Chapter 24:1-12;
and Then John Starting in Chapter 18 -20:18.
When we fully except Jesus into our hearts as our personal Lord and Savior, Then all our sins are paid for. The past, present, and futher and then we are saved and have inherited a place in heaven as a child of God The Father. While we are still here on earth and have become saved through Jesus, the Holy Spirit enters us and we then have the powers of the Holy Spirit inside of us and our bodies becomes the Temple of the Holy Spirit. See 1 Corinthians 6: 19.

 

[spirit1st]

Amen!
Our soul, our body and His Spirit!

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life!

WE have our own Spirit! He dwells with our Spirit!
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Every person on earth is a spirit being!

 

[Daniel Marsh]

James 2:26 defines death as simply seperation of Body and Spirit.

Jesus clearly gave up his spirit on the cross thus seperating it from his physical body. The Spirit of Jesus never ceased to exist, simply seperated from his body which is the biblical definition of death.

Thus both are right. His Spirit lived on and could not cease to exist. And, he did die as a man in the sense of his spirit being seperated from his body.

Aside: Did you know that in NT times, it was believed that the spirit hanged around the body for a few days hoping to re-enter it? This is why Jesus waited to raise Lazerus, and likely why he allowed his body to be in the grave for three days.

I recently spoke with JWs, I asked them how a non-person, force can pray for people? (Romans 8), its been a month and they never came back to answer.

 

[Boanerges]

WE have our own Spirit! He dwells with our Spirit!
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Every person on earth is a spirit being!

These are just some of my views.


I beleive you are correct my friend. No spirit, no life, no soul.
When God breathes life in to flesh then and only then (after receiving a spirit) does it become a living soul.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


The following verses shows us that it is not one spirit in all of us but each has his own:

Num 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

Num 27:16 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,

We also can see that in death all human spirits return to God :

Ecc 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

And God created all living creatures with a spirit.
The following verse seems to ask a question rather than answer one as to the destination of the spirit in man or animals. Nonetheless the same word for spirit (roo'-akh) is used in both:

Ecc 3:21 WhoH4310 knowethH3045 the spiritH7307 of manH120 thatH1931 goethH5927 upward,H4605 and the spiritH7307 of the beastH929 thatH1931 goethH3381 downwardH4295 to the earth?H776

The word spirit or breath used in the creation of man (neshâmâh) was different demonstrating the difference between God's work (creation) and man's work (procreation).
Gen 2:7 And the LORDH3068 GodH430 formedH3335 (H853) manH120 of the dustH6083 ofH4480 the ground,H127 and breathedH5301 into his nostrilsH639 the breathH5397 of life;H2416 and manH120 becameH1961 a livingH2416 soul.H5315

Like our Father it is our nature to give life but creation is His domain alone and we are given the ability to pass on our life in procreation.

 

[RJ]

God Created us in His Image

WE have our own Spirit! He dwells with our Spirit!
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Every person on earth is a spirit being!

What truth you speak. God said He is spirit and he created us in is own image. We all, believers or non-belivers, are born with a spirit and because of Jesus, we are all reconcilled or forgiven unto God. It is what each one of us do from that point that matters most.

 

[spirit1st]

This for told of SALVATION [Born -Again, born of God , born from above, Born of our Spirit]
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.



1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


GOD gives us a new beginning by making us a new heavenly creature!

 

[Rob Cragg]

We need to learn how to grow in the spirit, And the Holy Spirit will give us wisdom we need to understand scripture if we ask in prayer.
The hardest thing is learning to walk in the Spirit.

 

[Dave4Christ]

Trinity: TRUE

This was taken from an article in equip.org/articles/the-trinity-a-case-study-in-implicit-truth

1. There is only one God. This is the consistent emphasis of Scripture (Deut. 6:4; Isa. 44:6; John 5:44; 1 Cor. 8:4; 1 Tim. 2:5; James 2:19).

2. The Father is God. The Father is explicitly called “God” throughout Scripture (John 6:27; Rom. 1:7; Gal. 1:1; 1 Pet. 1:2).

3. Jesus is God. Jesus is explicitly called “God” (Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8), and He (Jesus) claimed to be “the first and the last” (Rev. 1:17), the precise name God used of Himself in Isaiah 44:6. The divine names “Yahweh” and “Elohim” are used in reference to the Messiah who is Jesus (Isa. 9:6; 40:3; cf. John 8:58 and Exod. 3:14). He performs works that only God can do, such as creating the universe (Col. 1:16; cf. Isa. 44:24).

4. The Holy Spirit is God. The Holy Spirit is the “Spirit of God” (Gen. 1:2; Exod. 31:3; Ezek. 11:24; Rom. 8:9, 14; 1 John 4:2) and possesses the attributes of deity, including omnipresence (Ps. 139:7‑9), omniscience (1 Cor. 2:10–11), and eternity (Heb. 9:14). He does things that only God can do, such as participating in the creation of the universe (Gen. 1:2; Job 33:4; Ps. 104:30), begetting Christ in Mary’s womb (Luke 1:35), resurrecting Christ (Rom. 8:11), and inspiring Scripture (2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Pet. 1:21).

5. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are persons. The Bible does not explicitly identify them as persons, but it is reasonable to infer that they are persons based on explicit affirmations in Scripture. The Father engages in personal relations (John 3:35), and has the attributes of personality: intellect (Matt. 6:8), emotions (Gen. 6:6; Ps. 86:15), and will (Matt. 12:50). The Son engages in personal relations (John 11:41–42), and has the attributes of personality: intellect (John 2:24–25), emotions (Matt. 9:36; John 11:35), and will (Luke 22:42). The Holy Spirit engages in personal relations (Acts 8:29), and has the attributes of personality: intellect (Rom. 8:27; 1 Cor. 2:10–11), emotions (Isa. 63:10; Eph. 4:30), and will (1 Cor. 12:11). The personality of each of the three is therefore implied in Scripture.

6. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct from each other. The Father and the Son know each other (Matt. 11:27), love each other (John 3:35), and speak to each other (John 11:41–42). The Holy Spirit descended on Jesus at His baptism (Luke 3:22), is called another comforter (John 14:16), was sent by the Father and Jesus (John 15:26), and seeks to glorify Jesus (John 16:13–14).

Hope this helps things,

Yours in Christ,

Dave4Christ

 

[paganmystic]

God Bless You brothers

What truth you speak. God said He is spirit and he created us in is own image. We all, believers or non-believers, are born with a spirit and because of Jesus, we are all reconciled or forgiven unto God. It is what each one of us do from that point that matters most.

We need to learn how to grow in the spirit, And the Holy Spirit will give us wisdom we need to understand scripture if we ask in prayer.
(The hardest thing is learning to walk in the Spirit)

Thank you. Both of you. Obviously you 2 are reborn of the Spirit. It is a very simple and basic understanding that then you accept Christ in your life you also receive the Spirit. Although this is true, many people cannot bring themselves to follow what they feel is the right thing to do, because it would mean turning you back on what you may already believe.

That is why I put brackets around something Rob Cragg said. Jesus continually told us this would be the case. That is why in John 14 & 16 we are given so much information about the Holy Spirit. When we receive the Spirit we have to surrender completely to Him, this is what makes us born again in the Spirit. When we do, we no longer have to try to figure out what Jesus expects of us, we already know, simply because the Spirit guides us through what we need to know and do, again, the job of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Veracity]

Is this where we get kicked out of the forum...LOL.

I do not believe in a "Trinity", a 'one what and three who's'.

I believe in three manifestations of ONE GOD.

There is only ONE thing that God does not know...and that is another God, He knows not any, there is none beside Him, etc. etc.

God is able to do all things without the help of "other God's".

 

[spirit1st]

God thinks it the Word [Jesus ] Speaks it the Power does it !Only one being! made of three parts as we are Made!
We are Spirit ,soul and body!

 

[paganmystic]

lol Veracity ... Not likely, I find it refreshing, to see an admission on this, the way you did it. That is way too cool.

It is much easier to accept your post because when it comes right down to it, it really doesn't matter, how we view the trinity. As long as we don't go over board on what the trinity actually means.

God Bless you sister.

 

[Rob Cragg]

Is this where we get kicked out of the forum...LOL.

I do not believe in a "Trinity", a 'one what and three who's'.

I believe in three manifestations of ONE GOD.

There is only ONE thing that God does not know...and that is another God, He knows not any, there is none beside Him, etc. etc.

God is able to do all things without the help of "other God's".

I don't know what to say, but if you don't believe in The Holy Trinity.
You would be rejecting one of the fundamental truths of being a Christian and gaining Salvation, but this is and Issue between you and God, so I would suggest you pray and ask Him to reveal the truth.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Concerning John 1:1 the word was with God,

The greek behind the word "with" in this phrase means "face to face" -- Montgomery's translation. How can "manifestations" be "face to face"? Only persons can be "face to face" otherwise language simply loses all meaning.

John 1:18 (King James Version)
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Since, no one saw the Son of God in the "bosom" of the father, this can not be a manifestation or "visible expression" to mankind.


What books do you recommend from your "Jesus only" viewpoint?

 

[Veracity]

Concerning John 1:1 the word was with God,

The greek behind the word "with" in this phrase means "face to face" -- Montgomery's translation. How can "manifestations" be "face to face"? Only persons can be "face to face" otherwise language simply loses all meaning.

John 1:18 (King James Version)
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Since, no one saw the Son of God in the "bosom" of the father, this can not be a manifestation or "visible expression" to mankind.


What books do you recommend from your "Jesus only" viewpoint?

Ya know, I am going to get a T-shirt that reads "I am one of those 'Jesus only' people".

When people who claim to be Christ-like refer to "Jesus Only" like it is derogatory, I really feel for them, right after I praise the Lord. You tell me by what other name you are going to be saved??

What books do I recommend for my Jesus only viewpoint? How about Isaiah, Jeremiah, Mark. Oh you probably meant some book that was written by someone recently...I don't go in for that, strictly Bible here.

You made my day, thank you. Praise the Lord!!



But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.


He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

 

[Veracity]

I don't know what to say, but if you don't believe in The Holy Trinity.
You would be rejecting one of the fundamental truths of being a Christian and gaining Salvation, but this is and Issue between you and God, so I would suggest you pray and ask Him to reveal the truth.

If the Holy Trinity were listed anywhere in the bible dear heart, I would be there for it, but it is not, trust me, I searched it out.

I did pray, and bless the LORD, He opened the eyes of my heart, and my ears.

Do you know that God does not know another god? He said there was none beside Him, He knows not any. For there to be a trinity, He would have to share His glory with another, and He will not do that. He said He is the only savior and redeemer, and I am real inclined to believe Him, because He does not lie!! He said He able to do ALL things.

I would think that those who are not as the Scribes and the Pharisees would be wanting to make sure they had fully sought the face of God before they tried to take someones salvation from them.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I like the One Way Jesus t shirts

derogatory? hardly, I was only using the label I expect you would use. You need to remember that those of us under the magic number of posts can't use Smiles yet to express emotion and even then people's words will be misunderstood -- based on the lack of body language.

I suggest you look for Bowman's Biblical Outline for the trinity doctrine online or in an earilier post I made in this thread to see the Trinity in Scriptures.

In fairness, among the "Jesus Only" aka modalism aka Sabellianism, books I have read and among those pastors of such I have heard. They all have lacked understanding of the originial biblical languages of Greek and Hebrew.

I have a Jewish background and "Jesus Only" make some funny claims about what us Jews believed in Jesus' day and some whoppers about History too..

Out of curiousity, can you name any "Standard" Greek or Hebrew Grammar or Lexicon that "Jesus Only" scholars have produced, please.

 

[Ramy]

There is a saint who used to call God and say (my holy trinty)
God is one in trinty and trinty in one, Byond our imagination and understanding.
He's one without a beginning anithesis the rest of us, and also that is byond imagination and thinking.
And the case you're talking about had been discussed over centuries by millions of other religions because only Christians believe in the Holy trinity; So you're not the first to discuss that.

A Syrian Saint called (Yohana) يوحنـــــا which means James I guess, asked the muslims when they discovered their new religion about 640 A.D and invaded Syria and all srounded countries and said
is the Koran word of God ?
Muslims said yes
He askes " Is it eternal or not ?
Muslims said yes
Then he said, So why you hate us when we say so, Because Christ is eternal and He's the word of God.

After some days some muslims said no it's not eternal, and saint Yohana said well, the word of God the Koran is according to this is a new book and wasn't exist before Mohamed wrote it and God changes because he got different words some are old, Some are new and some wasn't said yet and they are not eternal but created so the Koran is not eternal but was created.

Those group of muslims known later by islamic extermists called المعتزلــة Al-Moatazala which means "the sperators".
So if I don't believe in trinity, then God's word is not eternal, and his Bible (including old testement) is created and not eternal.
besides I don't see any wrong to say in the beginning was the word or mind
What can I say you think (in the beginning there wasn't a mind !!!!)
I believe brother if you like studying, you should start to study more in comperative jurisprudence.

Love from the trinity to you.

 

[Boanerges]

Just my views again:
I believe God has opened my eyes to see the triune God throughout the entire bible.
I believe One God with three manifestations or facets.
I do not believe in the traditional Pentecostal view of Oneness as Christ though God (Heb 1:8) is and will remain in submission to the Father :
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

 

[CitizenIreland]

Excuse me if I missed it, but hasn't anyone quoted Jesus in Rev 1:8? Jesus Himself plainly tells us there that He "IS" God.