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The Trinity - True or False

Do you Believe the Trinity


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That's just it, I can say I believe in The Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ & The Almighty GOD, in all, people can say that I believe in the Trinity.

The point I'm getting at is, the fact, a lot of people believe in The Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ & The Almighty GOD as one, but to call it the Trinity is hard for them because they say that the word Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible.

All I'm saying is, as long as we believe in The Almighty GOD, Christ Jesus & The Holy Spirit is enough.

If one wants to call it the trinity, that's ok. And if one does not want to call it the Trinity that's ok, too, as long as they believe in The Almighty GOD, Christ Jesus & The Holy Spirit.
 
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The word trinity isn't mentioned in the Bible, but the truth of 3 in one is, so like you said Jonah, that is what is important.

My Son had an article where someone was trying to prove there is no trinity because the word trinity isn't in the word.
That's a weak foundation to build a doctrine on, no one disputes that! But the Godhead is evident all through scripture from Genesis on through.
 
Amen Jonah .... you're right its sad so many make an issue out of it. Like Gracealone said there is enough knowledge in the bible to understand the concept of the Trinity. Jesus' own teachings dealt with that, the order and understanding that makes it work. Those that truly believe don't need the proof of any aspect of the trinity to know it exists. Our lives, day to day prove it.
 
I think most of the people have already summed up most of the ideas and questions. But I believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Sprit are 3 in 1. I understand that ir probably doesn't make sense, but it never will fully. God is so amazing we can't even comprehend. Why try to justify things with out earthly minds which are restricted in MANY ways. Think of this: God always was. there never was a beginning to him. When was he created? never. mind boggling??? Logically, the trinity doesn't make sense, but does putting a guy's ear back on make sense? does speaking thing into existence make sense??? nope. do I believe it? whole-heartedly. Take a look at this verse: 1 Corinthians 1:25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
My prayer is: God, i dont understand how great you are and how many things can be explained. Help me to overcome our earthly foolishness and grow closer to you even through things I may never comprehend some things while I am on earth........
I hope this will become your prayer as well

---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------

Colossians 2:2-3
My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge
 
God, i dont understand how great you are and how many things can be explained. Help me to overcome our earthly foolishness and grow closer to you even through things I may never comprehend some things while I am on earth........
I hope this will become your prayer as well

God is so great, I believe we will be learning to know him better, for all eternity......And that is good enough for me......:thumbs_up:love:
 
Yes!

John 17:11

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
 
Hi, I am new here, went through the entire lot here and must admit that I have seen some excellent, although long, posts for and against the trinity at the beginning.

Since the dust seem to have settled down here let me say that I have more respect for those who reason for the trinity.

Please allow me to say few things without telling me that I am stupid or in minority.

For God distributes His gifts to all according to His will to build the Church. Knowledge is one of them, not necessarily given to all at the same level. So if one has it he shouldn't boast but rather try to reconcile the scriptures. For God is not confused, there can't be two contradicting truths

If we abuse these gifts as the Corinthians did we will get nowhere.

Just to recall: the majority of Jews sent Jesus to the cross, the majority of German Christians followed Hitler, the majority.....the majority.....the majority........!!!

I have not seen anyone adding this to the discussin


1. God refered to Jesus as “my servant”.
Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth…
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

2. God enabled Jesus by His spirit
Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 42:1 …I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

3. We are to pray to and worship the Father
Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

4. There is only one true God and our life eternal is subject to this belief
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee (the Father. See V 1) the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1Co 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Please note that each of the epistles opens with such acknowledgement.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

5. God worked through Jesus
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

6. Jesus received power (exousia – competency, token of control) after his resurrection
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

7. Jesus received the revelation from God
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

8. Jesus will return this power and be subdued to God (the Father)
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

9. We have access to the Father through Jesus
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

10. Jesus is our mediator before God
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

11. We should thank (pray to) the Father
Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

12. After the resurrection Jesus has the same Father and the same God as we have.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

13. Jesus has his authority above him (the head) after the resurrection
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

14. Jesus prayed “always” to his Father
Joh 11:41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
Joh 11:42 And I knew that thou hearest me always…

15. Jesus lives by the power of God (the Father)
Joh 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
2Co 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.

16. God revealed Jesus in Paul
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

17. God revealed Himself in Jesus
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God...
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

18. Jesus is Abraham’s (and sabsequently David's) seed
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

19. Jesus was born by the Power of God.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
1Co 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

20. Jesus was chosen as we were before the fondation of the world. It doesn't make us Gods, dos it?
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


21. The Father is instrumental in bringing people to Jesus

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

22. Jesus, in turn, gives a sinful man the passage to the Father

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And the list goes on and on.



God bless
 
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Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

This verse has been used in the topic of trinity. I would like to ask some consideration that it might have been not God but possibly angels speaking here. Let me bring your attention to, what might look as if angel/s stand for God

We are told that angels manifest the name of God
Gen 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said to her, I will multiply your seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered.
Gen 31:11+13 And the angel of God spoke to me in a dream, saying, Jacob…I am the God of Bethel…arise, get out from this land, and return to your native land.
Jdg 2:1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said,
I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
Exo 23:20-21 Behold,
I send an Angel before you, to keep you in the way, and to bring you to the place I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
Num 20:16…the LORD…heard our voice, and sent an angel, and hath brought us out of Egypt…
Gal 3:19 What purpose therefore serves the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels through a mediator.
The Angel is not Moses as some claim:
Exo 32:34 Therefore now go, lead the people to the place of which I have spoken to you: behold, mine Angel shall go before you: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.
Act 7:38+53 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spoke to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us. Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
Heb 2:2…the word spoken by angels was binding, and every transgression and disobedience received a just punishment.
Exo 33:2-3+14 And I will send an angel before you; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite: to a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go with you; for you are a stiff-necked people: lest I consume you in the way. And he said,
My presence shall go with you
Deu 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goes over before you; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before your face: so shall you drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said to you.
Jos 5:13-14 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went to him, and said to him, Are you for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come…
Exo 13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:
Exo 14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:

Psa 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
Psa 103:20 Bless the LORD, you his angels, who excel in strength, who curry out his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
Psa 104:4 Who makes his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
1Ch 21:15+14 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it…the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men.
2Ki 19:35…that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians hundred and fourty five thousand…
Psa 35:6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.

The angel as a deliverer
Gen 24:7 The LORD God of heaven, which took me from my father's house, and from my native land, and which spoke to me, and that swore to me, saying, to your seed will I give this land; he shall send his angel before you, and you shall take a wife for my son from there.
Gen 24:40 And he said to me, The LORD, before whom I walk, will send his angel with you, and prosper your way; and you shall take a wife for my son of my native land, and of my father's house:
Psa 91:11 For he shall give his angels charge over you, to keep you in all your ways.
Psa 34:7 The angel of the LORD encamps round about them that fear him, and delivers them.
Mat 18:10 Take heed that you despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always see the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Luk 1:19 And the angel answering said to him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak to you, and to show you these glad tidings.
Heb 1:13-14 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?



The list of the angelic involvement is very long but has been sidelined.



God bless
 
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

This is another verse to be considered. The Greek word "Onoma" was probably meaning "authority and character" rather than "name" as we know it today. We have examples whereby God changed names of people according to their commission. Abram, Saraj, Jacob are some of them.

Children were given names according to the circumstances. Samuel was one of them.

Jesus states that he manifested the Father's name, yet he didn't call God anything but Father.

Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

The account of Baptism is mentioned 5 times in the book of Acts and always in the name of Jesus Christ.


Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

God bless
 
Trinity

I am sorry my friend; I say this in all love, you are confused, mixed up and wrong.

In the begining the word was Christ!

Colossians 1 :15-16
Supremacy Of Christ
" He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created:things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisable, wether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Do you believe in God?
Do you believe in Christ?
Do you believe in the day of Pentecost, the day that God's church began by Christ giving the Holy Spirit?

A , person who is a Christian , a person who can remember the day that he revieved the Holy Spirit, a person that has Christ living in them can not question the truth of the Trinity!

Your lack of faith could threaten you very salvation .

Hebrews 11:1

" Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what wee do not see."

My friend it is:
God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit

In all love and respect,
Joe
 
It has been said that Jesus possessed attributes of God so he was God. We find out that Jesus was given God's spirit without measure.

Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Therefore Jesus rightfully states that it is not he but the Father does the works

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Luk 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Apostles reaffirm that many times

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

All this is in line with the prophet

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Therefore God says that

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

So Jesus is the image of God (not God) for such was God's desire that His promise be fulfilled this way

Act 13:23 Of this man's seed (David's seed) hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Jesus finally says it clearly (many times) that those who do the will of the Father not necessarily those who call him Lord, Lord will enter into the kingdom


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


God bless
 
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Jesus said that if you have seen me you have seen the Father!
 
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

There has been a lot of discussion arround John 1

In the O. T. “dabar” – "word" means oracle, never a deity. This Word (dabar) proceeded from the mouth of God. By this Word God did His acts. By this Word God created heaven and earth. So this Word was God in the sense that God made Himself known by His Ward.

Num 11:23 And the LORD said unto Moses, Is the LORD'S hand waxed short? thou shalt see now whether my word shall come to pass unto thee or not.
Deu 4:10 The day that you stood before Jehovah your God in Horeb, when Jehovah said to me, Gather the people to Me, and I will make them hear My Words, that they may learn to fear Me all the days that they live on the earth; and that they may teach their sons.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Job 4:9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
Job 26:13 By his spirit (ruah – breath) he hath garnished the heavens...
Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
Psa 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
Psa 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit (ruah – breath), they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
Psa 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Psa 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word (imrah – speech) above all thy name.
Psa 147:15 He sendeth forth his commandment upon earth: his word runneth very swiftly.
Psa 147:18 He sendeth out his word, and melteth them: he causeth his wind to blow, and the waters flow.
Psa 148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
Psa 148:8 Fire, and hail; snow, and vapour; stormy wind fulfilling his word:
Isa 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
Isa 30:33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.
Isa 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit (ruah – breath), it hath gathered them.
Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Remember Phi 2:9-11?
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Isa 48:3 I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
1Ki 16:12 Thus did Zimri destroy all the house of Baasha, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake against Baasha by Jehu the prophet,
Jer 10:12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.
Jer 10:13 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.
Jer 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.
Jer 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.
Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
Hos 6:5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words (emer – speech) of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.
Mic 2:7 O thou that art named the house of Jacob, is the spirit of the LORD straitened? are these his doings? do not my words do good to him that walketh uprightly?

Just to remind:
In the O. T. “dabar” translated as “word” was an oracle, never a deity. This Word proceeded from the mouth of God. By this Word God did His acts. By this Word God created heaven and earth. So this Word was God in the sense that God made Himself known by His Ward.


Now the big distortion of the Word begins to take place. The Word of God becomes Jesus (the same way the wisdom of God in Proverbs 8 became Mary). There would be nothing wrong if it was understood to mean that God had fulfilled what He promised by His Word namely to rise to Israel a saviour, a son (compare Ps 82:6, Joh 10:35, 1Jo 3:1-2) not God. Unfortunately this doctrine needed a “prove” so here we have it. It is so easy to promote it today because hardly anyone cares to get to know God according to His Word (dabar) as He has revealed Himself to mankind in the O.T. We have so many new Churches coming up today. Yet they teach different doctrines. Why? They don’t bother to study the O.T. They say that the O.T. doesn’t apply to us. So they get to know God according to their own imagination.

God expected this distortion to come about so He repeated (in the N.T.) that He made the word by His utterance.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word (rhema – utterance) of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

God also made it clear that Jesus spoke the Word (logos).

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words (rhema - utterance), hath one (personification) that judgeth him: the word (logos as in Joh 1:1-3) that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Act 10:36 The word (logos) which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

Did Jesus ever say that he was God? No. But Jesus said: there is only one true God the Father and our life eternal is subject to this belief. His ward (logos) shall judge you and I in the last day.

So it appears that Jesus didn’t make things spoken about in Joh 1. The only true God the Father did all things by His Word.

The Greek word dia tranlated in Joh 1:3
"by" rather means through:

Dia - a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional). In composition it retains the same general import: - after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) . . . fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general import.

So there seems to go the notion that Jesus made the world

God bless

 
Jesus said that if you have seen me you have seen the Father!

I have just received this response while I was working on the next post.

Yes, Jesus was correct for the Father enabled him to manifest all of His attributes. Therefore everyone who saw Jesus' work and hear his word was actually observing and listening to what the Father would have said or done.

Please bear in mind that Jesus has also stated that noone has seen God at any time but he (Jesus) has just declared Him or manifested as he said in another place. So Jesus spoke about the Father and did the works the Father enabled him to do.


God bless
 
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I am sorry my friend; I say this in all love, you are confused, mixed up and wrong.

As I have said here at the beginning, I am not to convince anyone of anything. Knowledge is the gift of God. I only speak from His Word. I don't even claim to be knowledgeable.

For those who claim to have knowledge I have this chalenge: don't boast but reconcile the scriptures. God is not confused. There is only one truth. Perhaps there is still something beyond what has been said in this thread?

God bless you too
 
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Jesus said that if you have seen me you have seen the Father!

I have just received this response while I was working on the next post.

Yes, Jesus was correct for the Father enabled him to manifest all of His attributes. Therefore everyone who saw Jesus' work and hear his word was actually observing and listening to what the Father would have said or done.

Please bear in mind that Jesus has also stated that noone has seen God at any time but he (Jesus) has just declared Him or manifested as he said in another place. So Jesus spoke about the Father and did the works the Father enabled him to do.


God bless


Meditate on this:

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.


This is Father God calling the Son "O God or Ho' Theos" which translates Most High God. With the Father calling the Son Most High God there can be no mistaking that Christ is indeed God.

Some get confused when the scriptures refer to Him as a created being and as God but in truth Jesus was both. His body was a created thing and He was begotten (brought forth) as the First Bone of the dead and at the same time He was God before time.
 
We seem to have a strong fundamental pattern running through the entire scriptures that there is only one true God the Father. This fact had been clearly stated by Jesus himself as well as his apostles in many undisputed verses.

There have been many Hebrew and Greek words used whereby their original meanings were "expanded" to accommodate this doctrine. It has been manifested in contradicting translations of the Bible and magnified by man's "interpretation" seen in the establishement of thousands of denominations. The body of Christ has been teared apart.

Instead of listening to the knowledge given to each of us by God, people judge and condemn each other as if it was their responsibility to do so.

God bless
 
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Since there is no objection to the scriptural merit of my posts let me add this. Jesus didn't take credit for the revelation to Peter but he credited the Father although Jesus was teaching his apostles for some time.

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

God bless
 
Jesus said that if you have seen me you have seen the Father!

I have just received this response while I was working on the next post.

Yes, Jesus was correct for the Father enabled him to manifest all of His attributes. Therefore everyone who saw Jesus' work and hear his word was actually observing and listening to what the Father would have said or done.

Please bear in mind that Jesus has also stated that noone has seen God at any time but he (Jesus) has just declared Him or manifested as he said in another place. So Jesus spoke about the Father and did the works the Father enabled him to do.

One last thing my friend:
John said it best,
" In the begining was the Word , and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the begining........................The Word became flesh and dwelled among us." John 1:1-2, 14.

My friend, the Word is Jesus and Jesus is God!

Joe
 
You must have missed my post Nr. 153 on John 1:1. God seems to have a different opinion on that one.

God bless
 
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