There is no trinity in John 1:1

[paths that cross]

The reason that many Christians do not believe that the Father, the Spirit, Holy of God and The Lord Jesus are three different SPIRIT PERSONS of God

the reason is because ---- the scriptures clearly tell us that the spirit of God in the Lord Jesus is not multiple, plural spirits - or 3 different spirit persons.

BUT RATHER - as 1Co 12:6 - 7 says And there are DIVERSITIES OF OPERATIONS, but it is the same God, same PERSON - same Spirit - which worketh all in all.
:7 But the MANIFESTATION OF THE SPIRIT is given to every man to profit withal.

the scriptures are not leading the reader to understand that the same God is multiple persons - but that the operation of God is defined as " MANIFESTATION OF THE SPIRIT "
​

:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge BY THE SAME SPIRIT;
:9 To another faith by the SAME SPIRIT; to another the gifts of healing by the SAME Spirit;
:11 But all these worketh that one and the SELFSAME SPIRIT, dividing to every man severally as he will.
:13 For by ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into ONE SPIRIT.

Eph 2:18 For by him we have access both in ONE Spirit to the Father. - singular spirit

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 14:18 I - Jesus, - I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Mat 10:20 For it is not you that speak, but THE SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER that speaketh in you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Spirit of the Holy , { Holy Spirit } whom the Father will send in my name, -
Rom 8:15 but you have received the spirit of adoption of sons, whereby we cry: Abba (Father).
Ga 4:6 And because you are sons, God hath sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying: Abba, Father.
Eph 2:18 For by him we have access both in ONE Spirit to the Father. -

this is not a different " spirit person " Joh 14:26 is saying clearly that - - - -- - the Comforter, is the Spirit of the Holy , { Holy Spirit } whom the Father will send in my name, -
Ga 4:6 ------ - And because you are sons, God hath sent the Spirit of his Son -- the Spirit of the Son - this is the Spirit of the Holy , { Holy Spirit } whom the Father will send

The scriptures describe a God who is ONE SPIRIT - SINGULAR ------------ " one spirit person "

it is the spirit of the Father -
and the Son
they both are one SELF SAME SPIRIT,

God is a Spirit and this Spirit is the " selfsame " Spirit that whom is the Comforter, the Spirit of the Holy , { Holy Spirit } whom the Father will send
the Father will send " The Spirit of his Son " ​

:13 For by ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into ONE SPIRIT.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

The fact that one person can be three different entities is so far beyond our understanding makes this topic a total waste of time to haggle over....Why don't we get on to something else?

 

[paths that cross]

The scriptures perfectly agree with you, one God can be many, many MANIFESTATION - the manifestation of the spirit is given to man

Heb 1: 1 – 2 explains

:1 Many ways, also various ways, long ago the God spoke to their fathers

:2 in their prophets unto these last of days, of these, he spoke to them in his son upon whom is given heir, of whom also this is forever done

Ga 4:6 And because you are sons, God hath sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts,

Mat 10:20 For it is not you that speak, but THE SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER that speaketh in you.

Eph 2:18 For by him we have access both in ONE Spirit - to the Father. -

 

[Butch5]

But one can't. That's the whole issue.

 

[Curtis]

1Co 2:11 No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit, and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit.
1Co 2:12 And we have received God’s Spirit (not the world’s spirit), so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us.
1Co 2:13 When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths.
1Co 2:14 But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.
1Co 2:15 Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others.
1Co 2:16 For, “Who can know the LORD’s thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?” But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ. (NLT)

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

But one can't. That's the whole issue.

You're stuck in a worthless argument? I'll pray for you

 

[Butch5]

You're stuck in a worthless argument? I'll pray for you

It's not a worthless argument. The Trinity doctrine deprives the Father of His glory. It makes Him one of three coequal Gods as opposed to the Supreme God. I can't aging how Jesus must feel. He comes as God's messenger and today Christians are worshipping Him instead of the Father.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

It's not a worthless argument. The Trinity doctrine deprives the Father of His glory. It makes Him one of three coequal Gods as opposed to the Supreme God. I can't aging how Jesus must feel. He comes as God's messenger and today Christians are worshipping Him instead of the Father.

Butch...Father Son and Holy Spirit Three entities in one person.....Its a fact and your lack of understanding doesn't change it...your lack of belief has no bearing at all on that fact....You have a right to believe it or disbelieve it...its your choice....I'm done discussing it.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Butch...Father Son and Holy Spirit Three entities in one person.....Its a fact and your lack of understanding doesn't change it...your lack of belief has no bearing at all on that fact....You have a right to believe it or disbelieve it...its your choice....I'm done discussing it.

See, this term "three in one" is real problem. The concept of trinity is definitely biblical, but there's only one God, not three. "O hear Israel, the Lord is God, the Lord is ONE." What is three is God's sovereignty.

I've been reading a Genesis commentary book by Dennis Prager, yesterday I finished chapter 24, the story of Abraham's servant seeking a bride for Isaac. What most of you probably have never known is, when Abraham gave him the assignment, he swore by "the Lord, the God of heaven and the God of earth,(Gen. 24:3)" that's the first introduction of the "trinity" concept. Clearly, there's only one God in there, not three. A more accurate description of this concept would be ONE IN THREE, not three in one.

 

[Butch5]

Butch...Father Son and Holy Spirit Three entities in one person.....Its a fact and your lack of understanding doesn't change it...your lack of belief has no bearing at all on that fact....You have a right to believe it or disbelieve it...its your choice....I'm done discussing it.

But, it's not a fact. It's not found anywhere at all in the Bible. The Bible says the opposite. Paul said 'to us there is one God, the Father'. He didn't say, there is one God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That was made up by some guys in the 5th century and put in the Athanamsian Creed.

The question is why do people believe some unknown guys from the 5th century over the apostle Paul and the Bible?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

See, this term "three in one" is real problem. The concept of trinity is definitely biblical, but there's only one God, not three. "O hear Israel, the Lord is God, the Lord is ONE." What is three is God's sovereignty.

I've been reading a Genesis commentary book by Dennis Prager, yesterday I finished chapter 24, the story of Abraham's servant seeking a bride for Isaac. What most of you probably have never known is, when Abraham gave him the assignment, he swore by "the Lord, the God of heaven and the God of earth,(Gen. 24:3)" that's the first introduction of the "trinity" concept. Clearly, there's only one God in there, not three. A more accurate description of this concept would be ONE IN THREE, not three in one.

You like going back to the original Hebrew....The word Elohim is plural not singular.

 

[Butch5]

Are you familiar with the "Majestic Plural"?

 

[Searchingtoo]

I'm always puzzled at the discussion of this doctrine, It is not found anywhere in Scripture. It is flatly refuted by Scripture. It is completely illogical. It's a Catholic doctrine not found in church history until the 5th century and yet Christians will turn themselves inside out trying to defend it. I just don't get it. Many places won't even discuss it because they know it's indefensible. Seriously, why is this doctrine so important to Christians when it's found nowhere in Scripture?

Think about this. God the Father says He is the only God. This doctrine says no, there are two more who are coequal.

You nailed it butch, except that the doctrine says there are three that are coequal, which makes it even more ridiculous.

Trinity Definition: The central doctrine of religions of Christendom. According to the Athanasian Creed, there are three divine Persons (the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each said to be almighty, none greater or less than another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God.

 

[Butch5]

You nailed it butch, except that the doctrine says there are three that are coequal, which makes it even more ridiculous.

Trinity Definition: The central doctrine of religions of Christendom. According to the Athanasian Creed, there are three divine Persons (the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each said to be almighty, none greater or less than another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God.

It is completely nonsensical. Why a doctrine that didn't appear until about 400 years after the apostles has garnered support and is so argued for is amazing. I could even understand it if it wasn't flatly refuted by Scripture, but is it. It's flatly refuted more than once and by Jesus Himself no less.

There are said to be three almighty. That's another illogical statement. There can, by definition, only be one all mighty. If there are three coequals then none of the three are almighty.

 

[Searchingtoo]

It is completely nonsensical. Why a doctrine that didn't appear until about 400 years after the apostles has garnered support and is so argued for is amazing. I could even understand it if it wasn't flatly refuted by Scripture, but is it. It's flatly refuted more than once and by Jesus Himself no less.

There are said to be three almighty. That's another illogical statement. There can, by definition, only be one all mighty. If there are three coequals then none of the three are almighty.

You do understand I was agreeing with you???

 

[Butch5]

You do understand I was agreeing with you???

Yeah! I was furthering the point.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You like going back to the original Hebrew....The word Elohim is plural not singular.

Are you familiar with the "Majestic Plural"?

This plural is not the trinity or the "majestic plural", it's neither of those. It refers to God AND His divine council. One prominent example is Ps. 82:1 - “God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among the gods." In the original Hebrew, both God and gods in this verse are elohim with no difference, believe it or not. God doesn't stand in the midst of himself or judge himself, he's judging the corrupt heavenly hosts in this divine council.

 

[complete]

According to the Word of God (which is able to make us wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus), there was no one in the beginning with God. It is written:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
— (John 1:1-3).

There is only one person mentioned here. It is God, even the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort. Words do not come out of a woman's womb, neither does a Son come out of a man's mouth. God the Father is the only true God. Jesus Christ said:

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
— (John 17:3).

God hath said that there is no God beside him:

"...Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any."
— (Isaiah 44:8).

Therefore, bibles which say "He was in the beginning with God" in John 1:2 ought to be cast to the dunghill.

Subject Heading:- 'There is no Trinity in John 1:1
---------------------------------------------------

'In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him;
and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life;
and the life was the light of men.'
(John 1:1-4)

Hello @Rejoice evermore,

Chapters and verses are of man's creation, and can sometimes be a hindrance, as well as a help. John 1:1 should not be isolated from what follows in verses 2-4. What glorious truth they contain, I will not use them as a weapon in the defence of an argument, but will rejoice in them, and give thanks to the One Whom they are intended to glorify:-

* The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[complete]

' Thou art worthy, O Lord,
to receive glory and honour and power:
for Thou hast created all things,
and for Thy pleasure they are and were created.'
(Rev 4:11)

 

[complete]

'For by Him were all things created,
that are in heaven, and that are in earth,
visible and invisible,
whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:
all things were created by Him, and for Him:
And He is before all things,
and by Him all things consist.
And He is the head of the body, the church:
Who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;
that in all things He might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell;
And, having made peace through the blood of His cross,
by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself;
by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.'
(Col 1:16-20)

Praise God!