Trinitarians Godheadians, Can Their Translations Defend The Trinity Doctrine Of Trinity Faith System

[Butch5]

The problem is many drink from others instead of the Lord Himself for it is written

Drink water from your own cistern, running water from your own well. Should your springs overflow in the streets, your streams of water in the public squares? Let them be yours alone,
never to be shared with strangers.

Most don't even seek YH for answers it shows through their words like you r showing with yours

U probably all ruffled cause I said spend time with the Lors like that's a hateful thing..

You can take the suggestion n spend time with Him or don't personally I spend more time with Him then I do with those in the flesh but that's me

I hope ya do tho..

Twistie

You didn't explain the logical cobtradition. God created logic and reason. He created the human mind to work with logic and reason. God works with Logic and reason. He said to Isrsel, 'come, let us reason together'. God doesn't express Himself in logical contradictions. He said,

Isaiah 46:9 (KJV 1900): 9 Remember the former things of old:
For I am God, and there is none else;
I am God, and there is none like me,

"I" the singular personal pronoun. He said, I am God. He didn't say, We are God. He said, "I am God and there is none like Me." Here we have two singular personal pronouns referring to the same being. He didn't say, We are God and there is none like Us. God expresses Himself over and over with a singular personal pronoun.

 

[Twistie]

You didn't explain the logical cobtradition. God created logic and reason. He created the human mind to work with logic and reason. God works with Logic and reason. He said to Isrsel, 'come, let us reason together'. God doesn't express Himself in logical contradictions. He said,

Isaiah 46:9 (KJV 1900): 9 Remember the former things of old:
For I am God, and there is none else;
I am God, and there is none like me,

"I" the singular personal pronoun. He said, I am God. He didn't say, We are God. He said, "I am God and there is none like Me." Here we have two singular personal pronouns referring to the same being. He didn't say, We are God and there is none like Us. God expresses Himself over and over with a singular personal pronoun.

You can not Hear cause if ya could you would have seen that I have answered your see with the flesh I can't help u there only Abba can.. but apparently you think you know all n you don't need to spend time with Abba.. that is not my monkey nor my circus that's totally on you..

Twistie

 

[Butch5]

You can not Hear cause if ya could you would have seen that I have answered your see with the flesh I can't help u there only Abba can.. but apparently you think you know all n you don't need to spend time with Abba.. that is not my monkey nor my circus that's totally on you..

Twistie

You don't know anything about me. You believe something that is totally illogical and you're telling me I need to spend time with God. How ironic is that? What I've said fits nicely with Scripture. This idea of three persons in one God, is not only illogical, it is flatly refuted by Scripture. So, you believe something that is flatly refuted by Scripture, and you're telling me I need to spend more time with God. My belief aligns with Scripture, yours doesn’t maybe you need more time with God too.

 

[Twistie]

You don't know anything about me. You believe something that is totally illogical and you're telling me I need to spend time with God. How ironic is that? What I've said fits nicely with Scripture. This idea of three persons in one God, is not only illogical, it is flatly refuted by Scripture. So, you believe something that is flatly refuted by Scripture, and you're telling me I need to spend more time with God. My belief aligns with Scripture, yours doesn’t maybe you need more time with God too.

I know by your words you do not hear your own words testify against you..

Very prideful too so prideful your angry I suggest ya spend time with the Father.. how absurd some you chrsitians can be

stop drinking from others citrens n fast onto the Lord.. this isnt a good time to b walking blindly

Your beliefs align with what part of Scripture you choose to use..

YH is Spirit He seeks those who worship in Truth n Spirit He desires Knowledge of Him n mercy above all else..

Idk what u think death is but it's way much more then having the flesh covered in dirt

Twistie

 

[Butch5]

I know by your words you do not hear your own words testify against you..

Very prideful too so prideful your angry I suggest ya spend time with the Father.. how absurd some you chrsitians can be

stop drinking from others citrens n fast onto the Lord.. this isnt a good time to b walking blindly

Your beliefs align with what part of Scripture you choose to use..

YH is Spirit He seeks those who worship in Truth n Spirit He desires Knowledge of Him n mercy above all else..

Idk what u think death is but it's way much more then having the flesh covered in dirt

Twistie

I agree it's not a time to be walking blindly. That's why you should investigate this doctrine.

 

[Twistie]

I agree it's not a time to be walking blindly. That's why you should investigate this doctrine.

Like I said your blind n deaf you have all the knowledge you need you need not to seek God you have became a god urself..

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, ‘By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive.


Twistie

 

[Butch5]

@Christ4Ever, hi Nick. Remember when I was talking about those who believe they got their doctrines from God?

"Like I said your blind n deaf you have all the knowledge you need you need not to seek God you have became a god urself..

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, ‘By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive.


Twistie"

As I said, they have no reason to question anything. He/she obviously, according to their posts, spends more time with God than I do, even though they no nothing about me. Thus their doctrine has to be correct. Since I disagree with the poster I'm obviously wrong. It doesn't matter what I or anyone says. If they disagree they must be wrong because the poster got their doctrine from God. It doesn't matter that the doctrine is illogical and flatly refuted by Scripture in multiple places. The poster simply can't be wrong.

I'm not saying God doesn't help us. However, the first test of anything we claim is from God should be that it agrees with Scripture. If what we believe is from God it will agree with Scripture, not contradict it.

 

[Butch5]

Like I said your blind n deaf you have all the knowledge you need you need not to seek God you have became a god urself..

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, ‘By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive.


Twistie

That's "you're" not "your"

 

[Twistie]

That's "you're" not "your"

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Butch5
Sorry again for being gone for so long. Life again intrudes in ways that are not always convenient for communication, at least a rapid fire response. Then again who needs quick back and forth.

Hi Nick, This passage fits perfectly with what I said. When Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit he lied to God the Father. The Father is a sentient being.

No. As I said, I see two beings, the Father and the Son.

How is it logical that one person can consist of three other persons? I don't see how that is the least bit logical. I see a hierarchy, the Father and the Son.

Not at all. At Jesus baptism we see the Father, the Son, and the Holy Breath. The Father is bestowing His presence and power on Jesus. Jesus said, after His baptism, that the Father was in Him. He also said, regarding the miracles He was doing, that of Himself He could do nothing but that it was the Father doing the works.



8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jn 14:8–11.

The Father is in the Son. How is the Father in the Son? It's via the Holy Breath/ Spirit. Jesus said, it was the Father in Him doing the works. Jesus said of Himself He could do nothing.

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jn 5:16–19.

The Father was doing the works through Jesus.
Here we have two recordings of the same event. Mathew records Jesus saying He cast out devils by the Spirit of God, while Luke records it as the finger of God. It appears Luke doesn't understand the Holy Spirit to be a third person. He understands it as the finger of God. Luke understands it to be the Father. If we say the Holy Spirit/Breath is a third person we have a problem. One writer records it being done by one person and the other records it being done by a different person. However, If the Holy Spirit/Breath, is the Father then there is no problem and both harmonize nicely.

28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Mt 12:28.

20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Lk 11:20.



I'm not sure what you're referring to as to who resides in us. However, it would have to be the Father. If you're referring to 1Cor. 6:19,

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), 1 Co 6:19.

this is a reference to the Corithian church as the body and the Holy Spirit/Breath being among them. Is this what you're referring to?


I hope all went well with your procedure.

It is not logical to the finite mind. For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Corinthians 2:16). Chapter 2 makes for an interesting and fruitful read in this area especially towards the last verses. Prayerfully think, you already believe, I am assuming by your inclusion above, that one person consists of two other persons i.e. Father, Son. Is it such a jump to go to three when you also believe in a hierarchy of existence of the Godhead though you may not call it as such?

When you see the word "God" not as a name but a "Title" it makes perfect sense. It does not require us to understand perfectly the Godhead because to understand God will require an Eternity. An eternity that we have through Jesus. Time enough to see and understand the logic in context with a hierarchy and how each works in perfect agreement/harmony with the other. That is why I find it less logical when you are bouncing the Holy Spirit from being the power of God to being God the Father Himself, depending on the instance in question noted in Scripture.

I ask about who resides in us as a Temple, because it is God (1 Corinthians 3:16). Yes? I guess it make sense since we are the Temple of God, even though later on you will find it also called the Temple of the Holy Spirit as you mentioned also (1 Corinthians 6:19) which is actually more to the point we are discussing. This is where it might be easier for logic to see since as you already see God in the two persons, you were to see God as a title that includes in the hierarchy the Holy Spirit as the third person and so God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Matthew 29:18 will then make sense.

The Spirit of God resides in us, and so God resides in us. He also gives us power, distributes gifts, guides us, teaches us, is grieved by us and so much more as well does He. Clearly this speaks of sentience. The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit and the third person of the Trinity/Godhead.

I hope this explains my belief of the Holy Spirit in a way that is understandable. I am sorry that my response was not quicker as we are more accustomed to in this day, but more like a letter in the mail from yonder days!

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Butch5]

Dear Butch5
Sorry again for being gone for so long. Life again intrudes in ways that are not always convenient for communication, at least a rapid fire response. Then again who needs quick back and forth.

Hi Nick, no worries. it's all good'

It is not logical to the finite mind. For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Corinthians 2:16). Chapter 2 makes for an interesting and fruitful read in this area especially towards the last verses. Prayerfully think, you already believe, I am assuming by your inclusion above, that one person consists of two other persons i.e. Father, Son. Is it such a jump to go to three when you also believe in a hierarchy of existence of the Godhead though you may not call it as such?

I've heard this argument many times, it's not logical to the finite mind. I agree. I would submit it's not logical to any mind. There are two problems with this argument. One is that the doctrine was created by a finite mind. There is nothing in the Scriptures that speaks of a trinity or of one God in three persons. The question is, where did it come from? It came from men, with finite minds, trying to understand what the Bible says. The understanding they came to is illogical. I don't understand why people accept it. I know at the time it was conceived many people were illiterate and the Catholic church had a strangle hold on the Scriptures. They basically said, believe it or burn in hell for eternity. It was about power and control. We see that in the Athanasian Creed where they said, if you don't believe this you can't saved. The funny thing is, those who came before them didn't believe it. Were they all lost? Jesus and the apostles didn't believe it. Were they lost too?

The second problem with this argument is that if it's beyond comprehension we have no way to know if it's true or not. We simply have to believe it, "just because". We can't even say we blindly believe it because it's what the bible says, because the Bible doesn't say it. We don't even find this idea of three, coequal, coeternal, persons until the 5th century. If this was something one had to believe in order to be saved, wouldn't we expect Jesus and the apostles to be talking about this all through the Gospels?

Let me clarify, I don't believe that one person can consist of two persons. One person is one person. I believe what the apostle Paul said to the Corinthians, "to us there is one God, the Father.' The Son is referred to as God in a few places. That doesn't mean He is the same being as the Father. They are separate beings. The Father brought forth the Son. When a woman brings forth a child that child is a separate entity. When the Father brought forth the Son the Son was a separate entity. Each one, one person, one being. So, we have two beings or persons, the Father and the Son.

Notice when the Son is referred to as God, in Psalm 45:6 and Heb 1:8, it is in reference to a kingdom. A god is a ruler. A ruler has a specific domain. Even the pagan gods were, in the peoples eyes, rulers over certain domains. They had the sun god, the god of hades, they had gods of fertility, etc. They all had a domain. Well, the Son will rule and have a domain, thus in reference to that kingdom He is referred to as God. We can see from this usage in Scripture that the word God is a title. It's used of the one true God and it's used of pagan Gods. That the word god is used in different senses can also be seen from the apostle John.

18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jn 1:18.

Here John says no one has seen God at any time. This statement explicitly excludes the Son of God, Jesus. He's been seen. So, if He is God as referenced in the Scriptures, then either John is wrong or the word God is used in different sense.

Paul also addresses this subject.

13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), 1 Ti 6:13–16.

Paul, like John, says no man has seen this God. Paul even adds that no man can see this God. These two statements explicitly exclude the Son of God. The Son, Jesus, simply cannot be this God that John and Paul are speaking of.

When you see the word "God" not as a name but a "Title" it makes perfect sense. It does not require us to understand perfectly the Godhead because to understand God will require an Eternity. An eternity that we have through Jesus. Time enough to see and understand the logic in context with a hierarchy and how each works in perfect agreement/harmony with the other. That is why I find it less logical when you are bouncing the Holy Spirit from being the power of God to being God the Father Himself, depending on the instance in question noted in Scripture.

But, we're not trying to understand God. We're trying to understand a doctrine that men have conceived.

I'm not changing the spirit from power to God. What I'm trying to show is that the word "spirit" is a figure of speech use of the Father. If we say God did something by His power, who did it? God did it. His power isn't a separate entity. The Scriptures speak of God doing things by His right hand. That's not saying that God is a right hand. Saying God did something by His power is the same as saying God did something by His spirit. It's not that some different entity did it. God did it. Consider Luke 1.

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Lk 1:26–35.

Notice in this passage the child that Mary would birth is to be called the Son of the Highest. That's the Father. But notice how it's done. The Holy Breath would come upon her. Think back to Genesis 2:7 and the Breath of God that gave life to Adam. Here we have the Breath of God giving life to His Son. When he's talking about the Holy Breath, he calls it the power of the Highest. Again, that's the Father. Then he says that child would be called the Son of God. The Spirit here isn't a third entity. If that was the case, then the Spirit would be the Father of the Son. The Son would be the Son of the Spirit, not the Son of the Highest. Who produced the child in Mary? It was the Father. He did it via the Holy Breath or Spirit.

I ask about who resides in us as a Temple, because it is God (1 Corinthians 3:16). Yes? I guess it make sense since we are the Temple of God, even though later on you will find it also called the Temple of the Holy Spirit as you mentioned also (1 Corinthians 6:19) which is actually more to the point we are discussing. This is where it might be easier for logic to see since as you already see God in the two persons, you were to see God as a title that includes in the hierarchy the Holy Spirit as the third person and so God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Matthew 29:18 will then make sense.

We can see that if we bring it to the text. The question is, have we derived it from the text. Again, how can such a thing be and not be mentioned by Jesus or the apostles. We've been programed to see that.

The Spirit of God resides in us, and so God resides in us. He also gives us power, distributes gifts, guides us, teaches us, is grieved by us and so much more as well does He. Clearly this speaks of sentience. The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit and the third person of the Trinity/Godhead.

I hope this explains my belief of the Holy Spirit in a way that is understandable. I am sorry that my response was not quicker as we are more accustomed to in this day, but more like a letter in the mail from yonder days!

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

It does speak of sentience. The Father is a sentient being. Breath is not sentient.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Brother,

The understanding they came to is illogical. I don't understand why people accept it.

You mean to your finite mind of course.

Your argument is really insulting to me, when you are trying to place an origin of time/place to a belief that I believe was clearly understood by all but just not given a name or recorded in Scripture as such. I told you my position and how I came to it, which I will repeat more than once, I am sure. That you are unwilling to accept it is fine, since Salvation is not dependent up it, but to attribute it to Catholicism, is like me attributing your belief to Modalism which I mentioned but asked only if that was your belief and not to a self-understood belief of what Scripture is trying to tell you. Because you are saying that I would not, could not, come to the conclusion of the Trinity without that foundation of belief existing from others besides Emmanuel and the apostles. Sadly, the same could be said for you and your belief if I believed that you did not come to it of your own accord as well. For I see your reasoning, and my net is farther reaching is all.

Humm, which brings to mind, did you come to the position you hold through your own accord or whose studies did you follow in order to come to the conclusions in the theology that you adhere to in this subject area? I told you how I came about the truth of what I believe, now it's your turn! lol

Would you use your arguments against the fact that you also believe in Christophany, and Theophany which is also not found in Scripture, or show me why you believe them to be true and how you came about that knowledge?

God is a title for a ruler, not a name for the ruler. So, there is no conflict with God in the three persons of, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit since they are all in agreement all the time (essence) and does not preclude a hierarchy (three persons) from existing, which you believe exist minus the Holy Spirit, if not in the same way as I do (Emmanuel).

It does speak of sentience. The Father is a sentient being. Breath is not sentient.

You mean Breath of God and not just breath I hope!

I ask about who resides in us as a Temple, because it is God (1 Corinthians 3:16). Yes? I guess it make sense since we are the Temple of God, even though later on you will find it also called the Temple of the Holy Spirit as you mentioned also (1 Corinthians 6:19) which is actually more to the point we are discussing. This is where it might be easier for logic to see since as you already see God in the two persons, you were to see God as a title that includes in the hierarchy the Holy Spirit as the third person and so God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Matthew 29:18 will then make sense.

We can see that if we bring it to the text. The question is, have we derived it from the text. Again, how can such a thing be and not be mentioned by Jesus or the apostles. We've been programed to see that.

So, you would say that what is really being said is that the Breath of God/Holy Spirit is who resides in us as God and what they really meant was...

If I were to use your reasoning concerning your belief, you have been programmed as well. lol

I know you see it the way you do, but notice I have enough respect for you to attribute it your own reasoning, though without the Holy Spirit guidance of course. While you have no respect for what I have told you in how I came about my understanding with or without the Holy Spirit, because you continue to attribute my understanding to an existing doctrine/belief unconnected to scripture and only to man. Which I could again attribute to you, but don't.

The question is, have we derived it from the text. Again, how can such a thing be and not be mentioned by Jesus or the apostles.

My answer is yes, and clearly the apostle Paul did, and Emmanuel as well. You just will not accept it as such.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Brothers,

please let us take a breath.

I see both 'sides' to this coin. Perhaps it is still a coin we hold on to.... or is it a fish we prefer?

Please let us remember Him Who gave Himself that we might be free to worship eternally, Him Who is ...

----------------

So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1John 4:16

May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
2Peter 1:2

Can we perhaps consider this:

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
1Thessalonians 2:13

What do we read that works in us?

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: but the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
1Peter 1:22-25

I keep reading, person. persons, being, beings but find it very difficult to engage much in those terms when we speak of The LORD. Forgive my simplicity in this, please.

Whatever we do, let us do all for His Glory, not ours and let us remember that we all have sinned and fallen short, we all need His Salvation that He provided for us all while we were yet sinners and remember to reciprocate His love in our posts to one another.
It is and might always be a difficult 'topic' to discuss, but what is impossible with man is possible with God (amen ? )


These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1Timothy 3:14-16

Let us remember ’ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh (from Exodus 3:14) that the LORD will be what He will be and it was for His people and all to see that which He was wont to be, as He manifested Himself throughout all history (of man) for all to see.

with love,

Jesus is the lord


Bless you ....><>

But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him!
Matthew 8:27

 

[Butch5]

Greetings Brothers,

please let us take a breath.

I see both 'sides' to this coin. Perhaps it is still a coin we hold on to.... or is it a fish we prefer?

Please let us remember Him Who gave Himself that we might be free to worship eternally, Him Who is ...

----------------

So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1John 4:16

May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
2Peter 1:2

Can we perhaps consider this:

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
1Thessalonians 2:13

What do we read that works in us?

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: but the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
1Peter 1:22-25

I keep reading, person. persons, being, beings but find it very difficult to engage much in those terms when we speak of The LORD. Forgive my simplicity in this, please.

Whatever we do, let us do all for His Glory, not ours and let us remember that we all have sinned and fallen short, we all need His Salvation that He provided for us all while we were yet sinners and remember to reciprocate His love in our posts to one another.
It is and might always be a difficult 'topic' to discuss, but what is impossible with man is possible with God (amen ? )


These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1Timothy 3:14-16

Let us remember ’ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh (from Exodus 3:14) that the LORD will be what He will be and it was for His people and all to see that which He was wont to be, as He manifested Himself throughout all history (of man) for all to see.

with love,

Jesus is the lord


Bless you ....><>

But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him!
Matthew 8:27

Hi Br. Bear, I think everything is fine. At least it is on my side. I don't perceive any animosity from Nick. I thought we were having a nice friendly discussion.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Greetings Brothers,

please let us take a breath.

I see both 'sides' to this coin. Perhaps it is still a coin we hold on to.... or is it a fish we prefer?

Please let us remember Him Who gave Himself that we might be free to worship eternally, Him Who is ...

----------------

So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1John 4:16

May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
2Peter 1:2

Can we perhaps consider this:

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
1Thessalonians 2:13

What do we read that works in us?

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: but the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
1Peter 1:22-25

I keep reading, person. persons, being, beings but find it very difficult to engage much in those terms when we speak of The LORD. Forgive my simplicity in this, please.

Whatever we do, let us do all for His Glory, not ours and let us remember that we all have sinned and fallen short, we all need His Salvation that He provided for us all while we were yet sinners and remember to reciprocate His love in our posts to one another.
It is and might always be a difficult 'topic' to discuss, but what is impossible with man is possible with God (amen ? )


These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1Timothy 3:14-16

Let us remember ’ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh (from Exodus 3:14) that the LORD will be what He will be and it was for His people and all to see that which He was wont to be, as He manifested Himself throughout all history (of man) for all to see.

with love,

Jesus is the lord


Bless you ....><>

But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him!
Matthew 8:27

Dear Brother,
Amen, Amen, Amen!!!
I have no animosity towards Brother Butch5 or perceive any from him. An occasional correction/reminder, now and again which he takes advantage of as well, but only a discussion delving into what we believe as it pertains to our favorite subject, God and His Word.

Thank-you for your concern. It is one of the reasons I love you so Dear Brother!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
P.S. Thank-you for the Scripture and words you shared. Some of which was poignant to the conversation being had and of which I'm sure Brother Butch5 saw but was kind enough not to point out since it was not the purpose of your message to us. Sadly, this man who writes these words to you is very much like a dog with a bone these days and is wont to not lay certain things aside though it would be for his own betterment. My love and prayers to you and yours. \o/

 

[Searchingtoo]

Hi Br. Bear, I think everything is fine. At least it is on my side. I don't perceive any animosity from Nick. I thought we were having a nice friendly discussion.

You're waisting your time Butch5, but have at it if it confirms what you know and makes your faith stronger. Arguing with such people is like trying to tell the 1st century Pharisees and scribes that Jesus was the messiah. Some people are just closed minded and don't want to be confused with the facts. For me it is always more rewarding to talk to unbelievers that don't have preconceived ideas and are willing to have an honest discussion about the truth. "This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching human precepts as doctrines." Neither the Jews or 1st century Christians (those that knew him best) believed that Jesus was God.

I have spoken to many Christians that believe that the Pharisees and scribes are a type of the modern-day Christendom/Babylon. In other words Babylon the great as spoken of in Revelation. Babylon the great is portrayed as false religion in Revelation chapter 18. In Rev. 18:4 Christians are told to "Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues." It seems that some of Gods people are in Babylon the great/false religion and must get out if they want to be saved from destruction.

 

[Christ4Ever]

You're waisting your time Butch5, but have at it if it confirms what you know and makes your faith stronger. Arguing with such people is like trying to tell the 1st century Pharisees and scribes that Jesus was the messiah. Some people are just closed minded and don't want to be confused with the facts. For me it is always more rewarding to talk to unbelievers that don't have preconceived ideas and are willing to have an honest discussion about the truth. "This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching human precepts as doctrines." Neither the Jews or 1st century Christians (those that knew him best) believed that Jesus was God.

I have spoken to many Christians that believe that the Pharisees and scribes are a type of the modern-day Christendom/Babylon. In other words Babylon the great as spoken of in Revelation. Babylon the great is portrayed as false religion in Revelation chapter 18. In Rev. 18:4 Christians are told to "Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues." It seems that some of Gods people are in Babylon the great/false religion and must get out if they want to be saved from destruction.

Dear Searchingtoo,
I'm surprised it has taken so long for you to join in with comments that do nothing but insult those who believe differently then you as it pertains to the Godhead.

Question: Do you believe that those who believe in the Trinity or Modalism must believe in one or the other as such in order to be saved?

By the tone of your writing above, I believe that I already know the answer, but in case I am making an incorrect assumption I'd like you to be on the record, without putting words in your mouth or reading too much into what you have posted above.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
P.S. I won't put "YBIC" before my name as I do with most, in case it is insulting to you that a pharisee/scribe such as myself would dare to identify himself with having any relation to you in the spirit.

 

[Searchingtoo]

Dear Searchingtoo,
I'm surprised it has taken so long for you to join in with comments that do nothing but insult those who believe differently then you as it pertains to the Godhead.

Question: Do you believe that those who believe in the Trinity or Modalism must believe in one or the other as such in order to be saved?

By the tone of your writing above, I believe that I already know the answer, but in case I am making an incorrect assumption I'd like you to be on the record, without putting words in your mouth or reading too much into what you have posted above.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><
P.S. I won't put "YBIC" before my name as I do with most, in case it is insulting to you that a pharisee/scribe such as myself would dare to identify himself with having any relation to you in the spirit.

I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince anyone here to believe what I believe any longer for the reason I stated. To answer your question, I'm not sure how I feel about that, but it does seem that if you worship a trinity God when the trinity is not scriptural it is not much different than what Buddhism or Muslims believe. I think Jesus (not me) said it all in John 17:3 when he said that his Father was the only true God. Not Jesus, not the Holy Spirit or anyone else - ONLY his Father. Many other scriptures indicate the same thing and I have posted many of them here before. The Jews and 1st century Christians did not believe in a trinity and they were probably the people that knew him best. Do you think the Pharasees and scribes felt insulted by what Jesus said about them?

I have many friends and relatives that believe the exact opposite of the way I believe. They know how I believe, but we don't let it get it the way of our relationship. I would love to talk to them about it but they don't, I think because the truth hurts and I get that. Kind of like a friend of mine that is a big conservative and his wife is a big liberal. They love each other and have a good marriage, but just don't talk politics. I think if you knew me you would be very surprised.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince anyone here to believe what I believe any longer for the reason I stated. To answer your question, I'm not sure how I feel about that, but it does seem that if you worship a trinity God when the trinity is not scriptural it is not much different than what Buddhism or Muslims believe. I think Jesus (not me) said it all in John 17:3 when he said that his Father was the only true God. Not Jesus, not the Holy Spirit or anyone else - ONLY his Father. Many other scriptures indicate the same thing and I have posted many of them here before. The Jews and 1st century Christians did not believe in a trinity and they were probably the people that knew him best. Do you think the Pharasees and scribes felt insulted by what Jesus said about them?

I have many friends and relatives that believe the exact opposite of the way I believe. They know how I believe, but we don't let it get it the way of our relationship. I would love to talk to them about it but they don't, I think because the truth hurts and I get that. Kind of like a friend of mine that is a big conservative and his wife is a big liberal. They love each other and have a good marriage, but just don't talk politics. I think if you knew me you would be very surprised.

Dear Searchingtoo (not me, at least not anymore)
I'm sure your friends when you called them pharisees, scribes, Buddhist like, or Muslim in belief, they just shook their heads, and said ST "You don't have the love of Jesus in you. Let's go watch the ballgame." and thought nothing of the slights nor would you.

Like true friendships, we excuse the disagreements and even name calling for the greater benefits found in a relationship with each other. Yep, I'd be surprised if I knew you in person, because it would be close to seeing my own reflection in many ways and that's a scary thought.

I love John 17:3, as I love John 17:5. What makes this interesting to me is that to both of us there is no contradiction to what each of us believes. I guess when the Lord calls us home, we will know if it made a difference, when one of us or both of us hears "I never knew you...". Then again, my hope is that neither one of will hear those words spoken to us.

With the Love of Christ Jesus, I hope you find what you are looking for.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Searchingtoo]

Dear Searchingtoo (not me, at least not anymore)
I'm sure your friends when you called them pharisees, scribes, Buddhist like, or Muslim in belief, they just shook their heads, and said ST "You don't have the love of Jesus in you. Let's go watch the ballgame." and thought nothing of the slights nor would you.

Like true friendships, we excuse the disagreements and even name calling for the greater benefits found in a relationship with each other. Yep, I'd be surprised if I knew you in person, because it would be close to seeing my own reflection in many ways and that's a scary thought.

I love John 17:3, as I love John 17:5. What makes this interesting to me is that to both of us there is no contradiction to what each of us believes. I guess when the Lord calls us home, we will know if it made a difference, when one of us or both of us hears "I never knew you...". Then again, my hope is that neither one of will hear those words spoken to us.

With the Love of Christ Jesus, I hope you find what you are looking for.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

I agree with most of what you just said, except I don't think I called anyone a Pharisee, Buddhist, etc. Just gave examples of how they are similar and it wasn't me that criticized them. It was Jesus. He called them offspring of vipers, the blind that lead the blind, called them hypocrites, said they were fools and blind guides, said they were from their father the devil. Do you think Jesus insulted them? If the Bible says it I believe it.

When I was a young man and began to discover some of the Bible truths that contradicted what the church teaches of course my parents freaked out and sent a minister to talk to me, which I was and still am completely open to. He was a likable young man a few years older the me. When I asked him questions he would tell me what the believed and I said "I understand that's what you believe, could you show me in the Bible where it says that, and he really could not.