TULIP from the 2021 NRSV Updated Edition

[Rhema]

**There will be those of course, who will create contradictions in the scriptures. They do so giving their universal sounding verses, without explaining the verses I posted above.

And you will seek Me and find [Me], when you search for Me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13 NKJV

I love those who love me, And those who seek me diligently will find me. Proverbs 8:17 NKJV

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Matthew 7:7-8 NKJV

"But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find [Him] if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul. Deuteronomy 4:29 NKJV

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse [your] hands, [you] sinners; and purify [your] hearts, [you] double-minded. James 4:8 NKJV

Seek the LORD and His strength; Seek His face evermore! 1 Chronicles 16:11 NKJV

@Christ4Ever (you might soon be charged with "creating contradictions" without explaining the verses @Dylan569 posted.)

On the other side of the dance, I doubt that Dylan will provide answers to your verses, though I think the dance goes something like this:

"Seek me" (but no one can or will).​

"I love those who love me" (but nobody can or does).​

"Ask" (but they won't because they can't).​

"If you seek" (but nobody will do so with ALL their heart or soul).​

"Draw near" (again, they won't because they can't).​

"Seek the LORD" (A command destined (predestinated?) to fail.)​

Not that I like the dance, but I've watched it back and forth over the years.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[Charlie24]

True, but the head of the snake is chopped off when you help them grasp that almost insanely '''DUH''' fact .

I have tried to get a number of Calvinists to focus on that specific point, to no avail. Only one, in 15 years at least tried to answer it. All others do a 100% dodge. @Brightfame52 is a classic example in his limited atonement thread. And @Dylan569 looks to be going the same direction.

They do Calvinism the justice it deserves when they dodge.

'''Your belief is evil and presents God as evil because of A, B and C'' = Silence, rabbit trail, goal posts moved, run, insult.



Calvin pioneering the term OSAS has been discussed here before. It is false.

I'm certain Calvin was aware of the concept of osas, though he never discussed it in his commentary.

It was given that label after Calvin and became popular with the Baptists.

Calvinist roots run so deep in the Baptists, that when you show them osas is not true, they will deny it every single time.

Good luck with any Calvinist, all I do is show them basically what I've shown them in this thread.

They won't depart from the many misinterpretations, which is their mistake.

 

[Charlie24]

I'm certain Calvin was aware of the concept of osas, though he never discussed it in his commentary.

It was given that label after Calvin and became popular with the Baptists.

Calvinist roots run so deep in the Baptists, that when you show them osas is not true, they will deny it every single time.

Good luck with any Calvinist, all I do is show them basically what I've shown them in this thread.

They won't depart from the many misinterpretations, which is their mistake.

BTW, I'm a Baptist myself, been one all my life, IFB.

 

[KingJ]

Chapter 18 of Ezekiel at the beginning states:

"What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, 'The parents have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge'”? Eze 18:2 NRSVue

Then down through the verses are listed so many sins, then the statement is made:

"takes advance or accrued interest, shall he then live? He shall not. He has done all these abominable things; he shall surely be put to death; his blood shall be upon himself." Eze 18:13 NRSVue

THIS IS CLEARLY SPEAKING OF THE PUNISHMENTS OF EVIL DOERS IN THE LAND OF ISRAEL, LIFE IN THE HERE AND NOW, AT THE TIME OF EZEKIEL. THESE VERSES ARE NOT ABOUT ETERNAL SALVATION. ETERNAL DEATH IS NOT PUT INTO THE HANDS OF MEN TO EXECUTE!

The listing of sins continue and then the statement:

"withholds his hand from iniquity, takes no advance or accrued interest, observes my ordinances, and follows my statutes, he shall not die for his father’s iniquity; he shall surely live." Eze 18:17 NRSVue

A NT example comes to mind about sin and the effects that it has on men:

"For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Their females exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the males, giving up natural intercourse with females, were consumed with their passionate desires for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error." Rom 1:26-27 NRSVue

Salvation under the Old Covenant was by faith just as it is now under the New Covenant.

As a reply to Charlie's post this is a rabbit trail.

It seems you are merely another Calvinist looking to copy paste their heresy on this forum. You are not actually dealing with posts and questions to you.

I would love to meet you in a formal debate where moderators can call out your evasion. Evade = lose. You were asked a question in my first post to you, which you have still evaded.

Until you answer it, you are nothing more than a Calvinist bot.

 

[Dylan569]

as it is written: "There is no one who is righteous (G1342), not even one;​

(Romans 3:10 NRSV)

I guess Noah didn't get the memo.

These are the descendants of Noah. Noah was a righteous (G1342) man, blameless in his generation; Noah walked with God.​

(Genesis 6:9 NRSV)

Then the LORD said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen that you alone are righteous (G1342) before me in this generation.​

(Genesis 7:1 NRSV)

Rhema

This is a classic example of introducing contradictions into God's word because of ignorance. Instead of doing that, explain the difference.

 

[Dylan569]

The more these free-willers write, the more evidence that they give that they can only introduce contradictions into God's word where there is NEVER a contradiction. At the beginning of this thread I let Calvin explain Acts 10:34 and the replies to were merely smart alec nonsense, or avoidance of Calvin's own reply. For those who missed that, you can read Calvin's reply here:

Acts 10 - Calvin's Commentary on the Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Acts 10, Calvin's Commentary on the Bible, John Calvin's Commentaries offer Christians profound insights by blending careful analysis of original texts with historical context.

www.studylight.org

To illustrate my point that all the free-willers seem able to do, is to contradict one part of God's word with another. Let them try to explain away the very clear statement of Paul as recorded in Acts 13:48. I'll even give 7 different translations of the verse and then put it in context -

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.: Act 13:48 KJV

"When the gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord, and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers." Act 13:48 NRSVue

"When the Gentiles heard this, they began to rejoice and praise the word of the Lord, and all who had been appointed for eternal life believed." (Acts 13:48 NET2.1)

"When the Gentiles heard this, they were overjoyed and thankfully acclaimed the word of the Lord, and those who were marked out for eternal life became believers." (Acts 13:48 REB/UK)

"When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the Lord's message; and those who had been chosen for eternal life became believers." (Act 13:48 GNB/USA)

"The Gentiles listened with delight and extolled the Lord's Message; and all who were pre-destined to the Life of the Ages believed." (Acts 13:48 Weymouth)

For those wanted a simple translation, there is the Bible in Basic English -

"And the Gentiles, hearing this, were glad and gave glory to the word of God: and those marked out by God for eternal life had faith." (Act 13:48 BBE"

The verse as it reads in its larger, more full context -

Act 13:44-50 NRSVue
44 The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.
45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy, and blaspheming, they contradicted what was spoken by Paul.
46 Then both Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken first to you. Since you reject it and judge yourselves to be unworthy of eternal life, we are now turning to the gentiles.
47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, ‘I have set you to be a light for the gentiles, so that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
48 When the gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord, and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers.
49 Thus the word of the Lord spread throughout the region.
50 But the Jews incited the devout women of high standing and the leading men of the city and stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas and drove them out of their region.

I invite the readers to examine the evasions the free-willers try to use in order to deny the perfectly clear statement in v48.

 

[Dylan569]

The Apostle John wrote his gospel as well as the book of Revelation. Here are some of his words which I find too clear to deny with any sane reasoning.

"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (Joh 15:19 KJV)

"As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him....I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word....I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." (Joh 17:2,6,9 KJV)

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Rev 5:9 KJV)

I find that very clear, God the Father gave God the Son a certain number of persons, and it is those persons for whom the Son of God came to save by his life, death and resurrection, in their place.

 

[KingJ]

I invite the readers to examine the evasions the free-willers try to use in order to deny the perfectly clear statement in v48.

I am waiting for you to realize that your doctrine is broken at its core and posts like the one above are grabbing at straws.

Like a waiter on the Titanic still trying to serve customers when the ship is clearly sinking.

 

[Charlie24]

The more these free-willers write, the more evidence that they give that they can only introduce contradictions into God's word where there is NEVER a contradiction. At the beginning of this thread I let Calvin explain Acts 10:34 and the replies to were merely smart alec nonsense, or avoidance of Calvin's own reply. For those who missed that, you can read Calvin's reply here:

Acts 10 - Calvin's Commentary on the Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Acts 10, Calvin's Commentary on the Bible, John Calvin's Commentaries offer Christians profound insights by blending careful analysis of original texts with historical context.

www.studylight.org

To illustrate my point that all the free-willers seem able to do, is to contradict one part of God's word with another. Let them try to explain away the very clear statement of Paul as recorded in Acts 13:48. I'll even give 7 different translations of the verse and then put it in context -

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.: Act 13:48 KJV

"When the gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord, and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers." Act 13:48 NRSVue

"When the Gentiles heard this, they began to rejoice and praise the word of the Lord, and all who had been appointed for eternal life believed." (Acts 13:48 NET2.1)

"When the Gentiles heard this, they were overjoyed and thankfully acclaimed the word of the Lord, and those who were marked out for eternal life became believers." (Acts 13:48 REB/UK)

"When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the Lord's message; and those who had been chosen for eternal life became believers." (Act 13:48 GNB/USA)

"The Gentiles listened with delight and extolled the Lord's Message; and all who were pre-destined to the Life of the Ages believed." (Acts 13:48 Weymouth)

For those wanted a simple translation, there is the Bible in Basic English -

"And the Gentiles, hearing this, were glad and gave glory to the word of God: and those marked out by God for eternal life had faith." (Act 13:48 BBE"

The verse as it reads in its larger, more full context -

Act 13:44-50 NRSVue
44 The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.
45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy, and blaspheming, they contradicted what was spoken by Paul.
46 Then both Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken first to you. Since you reject it and judge yourselves to be unworthy of eternal life, we are now turning to the gentiles.
47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, ‘I have set you to be a light for the gentiles, so that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
48 When the gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord, and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers.
49 Thus the word of the Lord spread throughout the region.
50 But the Jews incited the devout women of high standing and the leading men of the city and stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas and drove them out of their region.

I invite the readers to examine the evasions the free-willers try to use in order to deny the perfectly clear statement in v48.

I'm not trying to start an all out argument here, Dylan. Just trying to reason the Scriptures.

There is a problem with the way you interpret Acts 13:48 from the opposite view.

It becomes very clear, or should, that we need to examine the Scriptures more closely.

Here are a couple of examples that present God in a different light than the Calvinist view.

1 Tim. 2:3-4
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."


God wants ALL men to be saved, not a select group as Calvin taught in double predestination.

God doesn't always get his way with man concerning salvation, some/most will be separated from Him forever.

This is where free will comes into effect, most will refuse to accept Christ.

The reason Christ said that narrow is the gate that leads to life and few there be that find it.

 

[Rhema]

This is a classic example of introducing contradictions into God's word because of ignorance. Instead of doing that, explain the difference.

So me merely posting two scripture verses is creating contradictions in the Bible? How POWERFUL I must be to jeopardize the Bible merely by quoting it. Let me quote two more verses, since I guess Zacharias and Elisabeth never got Paul's memo either.

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous (G1342) before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.​

(Luke 1:5-6 KJV)

But since you call me the ignorant one, then how about YOU explain the difference? I'm all ears, though I doubt you'll even take a stab at it. And I hasten to point out, though that it's the same word G1342, so you can't play English Dictionary Games with me.

And being such an ignorant person, when Paul writes:

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.​

(Romans 3:10-18 KJV)

If you could kindly help me out and show where the above "was written" it would be greatly appreciated.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

The Apostle John wrote his gospel as well as the book of Revelation.

No Biblical scholar really believes this anymore, but attributes Revelation to "John of Patmos."

(You can do the homework.)

Rhema

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Christ4Ever (you might soon be charged with "creating contradictions" without explaining the verses @Dylan569 posted.)

On the other side of the dance, I doubt that Dylan will provide answers to your verses, though I think the dance goes something like this:

"Seek me" (but no one can or will).​

"I love those who love me" (but nobody can or does).​

"Ask" (but they won't because they can't).​

"If you seek" (but nobody will do so with ALL their heart or soul).​

"Draw near" (again, they won't because they can't).​

"Seek the LORD" (A command destined (predestinated?) to fail.)​

Not that I like the dance, but I've watched it back and forth over the years.

Kindly,
Rhema

Charles Spurgeon had a quote which I love, and the reason I, as do you, in general just provide the Scripture verse...

"The Word of God is like a lion. You don't have to defend a lion. All you have to do is let the lion loose, and the lion will defend itself."

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Dylan569]

Gentlemen, when I see you explain the meaning of Acts 13:38 so that it fits with your free-willer theology, I'll by quite happy to show how 1 Tim. 2:3-4 and 2 Pet. 3:9 do not contradict Acts 13:48 at all once you remove the contradiction you have created between Acts 1348 and 1 Tim
2:3-4 and 2 Pet. 3:9. You see, I can give reasonable explanation of all three passages so they no contradiction exists. I'll give you a hint, Acts 13:48 is clear as a bell; in 1 Tim. 2:3-4 it depends upon what "all" refers to; and in 2 Pet. 3:9 it depends upon how you understand "will" of God in this verse.

 

[Charlie24]

Gentlemen, when I see you explain the meaning of Acts 13:38 so that it fits with your free-willer theology, I'll by quite happy to show how 1 Tim. 2:3-4 and 2 Pet. 3:9 do not contradict Acts 13:48 at all once you remove the contradiction you have created between Acts 1348 and 1 Tim
2:3-4 and 2 Pet. 3:9. You see, I can give reasonable explanation of all three passages so they no contradiction exists. I'll give you a hint, Acts 13:48 is clear as a bell; in 1 Tim. 2:3-4 it depends upon what "all" refers to; and in 2 Pet. 3:9 it depends upon how you understand "will" of God in this verse.

Yea, it's been an argument for around 500 years now. No need for us to be enemies over it.

The upside is that we both believe in justification by faith in Christ, that is what really matters.

 

[Christ4Ever]

No Biblical scholar really believes this anymore, but attributes Revelation to "John of Patmos."

(You can do the homework.)

I guess if you say it, it must be true, since you know all the scholars since 2 AD till now.
And know that none of them believed that John of Patmos could also be John the Apostle as well.

There is enough back and forth that you'd find scholars who believe the Johannine works were done by any number of individuals, since the use of John was quite popular in them days, and all those same said scholars I'm sure could easily be divided to include doubting who wrote the Gospel of John too!

So, unless you believe a 100% consensus is necessary before being considered the inspired Word of God...I guess we'll just wait for you to publish your bible when you're done translating the manuscripts. No sarcasm here, just hoping that all that knowledge of the Greek and history that you have is going towards something constructive in furthering the Kingdom of God. I'll even buy it if you're not going to give it away.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Rhema]

 

[Curtis]

2Th 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (NKJV)

There are many people on their way to hell (pershing), but they don't have to perish if they would receive the love of the truth so that they might be saved.

 

[Rhema]

I guess if you say it, it must be true, since you know all the scholars since 2 AD till now.

"anymore" limits the time frame to now, not everything back to the year 2 AD.

But I understand your frustration from lack of "rubbing elbows" with actual scholars. I'd recommend maybe you do a bit more study? Attend a conference? Take a scholar to lunch? Possibly take classes at your local seminary? And there is this wonderful thing now called the Internet. You might even run across a scholar or two on these things called forums.

Of course you are quite welcome to edit the Wikipedia page if you feel qualified to do so, or write a scathing letter about how you know better to the editors of Britannica...

And obviously there would be a disagreement between you and I about what constitutes a scholar, so I doubt that that would be settled anytime soon.

... to include doubting who wrote the Gospel of John too!

Doubting the claim of the Apostle John to be the author is rather different than offering proof that someone else was. I believe I had told you before that I know who authored the Gospel named John according to the text of the gospel itself. But as you didn't express any interest in the topic back then, I feel inclined not to pursue the matter here.

Suffice it say that within the bounds of textual criticism, I find the argument rather compelling that the two books, that of Revelation and John, could not have been written by the same person based upon one being written by someone well educated in writing Greek while the other is most assuredly not. (Sources have been posted elsewhere.)

So, unless you believe a 100% consensus is necessary before being considered the inspired Word of God..

And this right here exemplifies my concern (as also posted elsewhere). You wrote "Word of God" when you clearly mean Bible. Most Christians (all of them, at least the ones I know) conflate Word of God with Bible and seem unable to differentiate between the two, regardless of the proof I've given showing these to be different. With regards to the canon, though, I don't recall any convocation or synod of bishops (or anyone) reaching a 100% consensus, or rather, that a 100% consensus was required. The only 100% consensus that I know of is the canon of the Church of the East established by the Apostle Thomas, who, one hopes, would have been 100% in consensus with himself. (...and God. Shouldn't forget that.)

No sarcasm here,

You have this wonderful ability to sound sarcastic, even when writing that you are not. I shall chalk this up to our differences in dialect.

No sarcasm here, just hoping that all that knowledge of the Greek and history that you have is going towards something constructive in furthering the Kingdom of God.

One would surely hope, but certainly you are not suggesting that it's my responsibility to build Jesus' church ??

And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.​

(Matthew 16:18 NKJV)

Blessings,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

2Th 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (NKJV)

There are many people on their way to hell (pershing), but they don't have to perish if they would receive the love of the truth so that they might be saved.

And yet according to the Calvinist ...

 

[Dylan569]

Yea, it's been an argument for around 500 years now. No need for us to be enemies over it.

The upside is that we both believe in justification by faith in Christ, that is what really matters.

Charlie, I will present how I reconcile Acts 13:48 with 1 Tim. 2:3-4 and 2 Pet. 3:9. Yet I suppose it is not the verses that need reconciling, but our understanding of them. The following is how I see it.

When you read the plain statement of Acts 13:48, and then 1 Tim. 2:3-4 & 2 Pet. 39, there obviously needs some reasonable way to reconcile the first verse with the next two, and I'll quote all three from the NRSVue.

"When the gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord, and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers." Act 13:48 NRSVue

"This is right and acceptable before God our Savior, who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." 1Ti 2:3-4 NRSVue

"The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance." 2Pe 3:9 NRSVue

We need the well known rule of interpretation: In comparing scripture, when there is a question between verses, the more clear verses take priority and explain the less clear. It is Acts 13:48 that is the most clear verse of the 3 passages. The word "destined" or "ordained" in the KJV, does not mean "disposed" and I know of no version that translates as "disposed" and if such a version could be found, it would be cherry picking to support a prior held belief and imposing on the text one's own thinking rather than accepting the text. Of course we have some on this thread who think they have more scholarship and can translate more accurately than respected translations such as the RV, ASV, RSV, NRSV, NRSVue, etc. "Do you see persons wise in their own eyes? There is more hope for fools than for them." (Prov 26:12 NRSV)

Acts 13:48 - Not all Gentiles, but only "as many as had been destined, ordained or appointed" became believers. This verse is quite clear to me. But I must understand the next two passages properly.

1Ti 2:3-4 - What is meant by "desires everyone", or ASV "all men". Go back to vs 1-2 and you see "all men" and then two categories; for kings, all in authority(KJV). The "all" and "everyone" is restricted to those in the context. There are to be prayers for all categories of men, every category of men. Examples in the NT of words "all" and "every" used in a manner NOT meaning all persons bar none: Lk 20:38 "all live unto him"KJV, but do ALL men live unto God?; Mk 11:32 "all men" saw John as a prophet, but someone cut his head off so it was not "all" without restriction; Lk 16:16 since the kingdom of God is preached are "all men" or is "everyone" trying to enter? 1 Cor. 11:3 is Christ the head of "every man" or is it to be understood "every Christian man"? The universal words "all" and "every man or one" must be seen in the context.

2 Pet. 3:9 - In v1 we see Peter is addressing the "beloved", not the world, scoffers and ungodly. So he is speaking to Christians. In v9 we see Peter writes "is patient with YOU", who are the beloved. I find the answer to this verse in the following:

"Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?" Rom 2:4 RSV

Peter is addressing believers, the "beloved" in 2 Pet. 3:9. HE is patient, not wanting any of his elect to perish but that ALL of the elect come to repentance. So the return of Jesus Christ will not happen until the very last person of His elect is brought into the fold. Remember, the "scoffers" in v3 are sneering at the delay in the return of Jesus Christ. I see in 2 Pet. 3:9 a solid assurance to the body of Christ that NOT ONE of his children will fail to enter the church, his kingdom before Christ returns.

The free-willers will pick and criticize how I understand 1 Tim. 2:3-4 and 2 Pet. 3:9 as I compare and reconcile them to Acts 13:48. BUT is my understanding more or less reasonable than how they try to evade the clear statement of Acts 13:48? Oh! Wait, I'm still looking to see their attempt to evade Acts 13:48. I see them quoting their favorite passages, but they evade those that are more clear on the Calvinist side, which must be the Biblical side until they can show how they can explain away verses such as Acts 13:48.

Charlie, indeed we see no need to be enemies. I regularly consult and respect the commentaries by the Arminians Joseph Benson and Adam Clarke and gain great insight and helps from them. I admit though, there are some types who post, with whom I have problems staying patient.