What do you believe?

[Christ4Ever]

Can the "thoughts and memory" of how a father treated his son be the same as his father coming after him?

Luke 15:17 “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father's hired servants have more than enough bread, but I perish here with hunger!

Memory is a potent tool God can and does use to communicate his message to those who sometimes forget God's goodness.

Well said Brother!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Twistie]

No issue with that. Only with torture. Punishment will never be torture. Christians must NEVER imply that. Many do.

So ya think being in a place that has no good no love won't be torture??

Best believe YH is perfect in everything He does His goodness is perfect n so is His wrath

Do you think He gonna allow satan back in his presence or put him in a place that's comfortable when all this done n over with??

It's written

He that is not with me is against me;

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly

Many have no fear of YH sadly twisting His precious gift around ( THE WORD)and leading many astray

If YH was not gonna damn the evil ones and allow the evil ones in His presence He wouldn't have sent Her a son to save those He has called..


People who believe parts of the Word confuse the bonkers out of me

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[KingJ]

So ya think being in a place that has no good no love won't be torture??

Best believe YH is perfect in everything He does His goodness is perfect n so is His wrath

Do you think He gonna allow satan back in his presence or put him in a place that's comfortable when all this done n over with??

It's written

He that is not with me is against me;

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly

Many have no fear of YH sadly twisting His precious gift around ( THE WORD)and leading many astray

If YH was not gonna damn the evil ones and allow the evil ones in His presence He wouldn't have sent Her a son to save those He has called..

Please read the OP of this thread to better grasp the point I am making Discussion on Torture.

People who believe parts of the Word confuse the bonkers out of me

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Agreed, and would you be open to accepting that you are in fact doing that?

There is a world of difference between a brazen bull (Torture that many imply when cherry picking verses mentioning fire) and what Jesus describes suffering in fire as in Luke 16.

 

[Twistie]

Please read the OP of this thread to better grasp the point I am making Discussion on Torture.



Agreed, and would you be open to accepting that you are in fact doing that?

There is a world of difference between a brazen bull (Torture that many imply when cherry picking verses mentioning fire) and what Jesus describes suffering in fire as in Luke 16.

So your not discussing what one believes??

N again ya think it's gonna be tulips n rainbows with nothing good??

Can ya even imagine only remembering the good ya experience here while being in a place of Total darkness

(⁠@⁠_⁠@⁠)

 

[KingJ]

So your not discussing what one believes??

N again ya think it's gonna be tulips n rainbows with nothing good??

Can ya even imagine only remembering the good ya experience here while being in a place of Total darkness

(⁠@⁠_⁠@⁠)

We can discuss it in more detail here if you wish, sure.

I do not believe it is total darkness, no. John 3:19 shows us that darkness is a metaphor for evil. Hell will comprise of people that are unrepentant in their sin. People who love what is evil. As such, it is correctly called a place of darkness.

If you throw a party in hell. The best person you can invite is an unrepentant back biter, imagine that. Good luck enjoying 'your' party.

 

[Twistie]

We can discuss it in more detail here if you wish, sure.

I do not believe it is total darkness, no. John 3:19 shows us that darkness is a metaphor for evil. Hell will comprise of people that are unrepentant in their sin. People who love what is evil. As such, it is correctly called a place of darkness.

If you throw a party in hell. The best person you can invite is an unrepentant back biter, imagine that. Good luck enjoying 'your' party.

Ok so you don't believe the Word just parts of it..

Ok thanks I can see where you r at..

N I will bow out of this convo for I'm a follower of the Word n because of the grace of God He keeps me on the straight n narrow

＼⁠(⁠°⁠o⁠°⁠)⁠／

 

[Curtis]

So ya think being in a place that has no good no love won't be torture??

"torment" is generally used to describe intense internal anguish or pain, often related to the consequences of one's actions, while "torture" usually implies a deliberate act of inflicting physical pain by another party, which is not typically attributed to God


Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[Twistie]

"torment" is generally used to describe intense internal anguish or pain, often related to the consequences of one's actions, while "torture" usually implies a deliberate act of inflicting physical pain by another party, which is not typically attributed to God


Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Torment torture call it what ya will but YH is Light n when He separates Him from you your in darkness..

For me myself that would be torment n torture

¯⁠\⁠_⁠ʘ⁠‿⁠ʘ⁠_⁠/⁠¯

 

[KingJ]

Ok so you don't believe the Word just parts of it..

Ok thanks I can see where you r at..

Imagine facing God one day and being guilty of teaching the lost that He loves and died for, that He sit a top a list of the most evil Beings to ever live. (This is exactly what you and others insinuate when you teach that God tortures people in hell for all eternity) This after knowing that prophets who knew Him better than you or I defined Him as good Psalm 136:1 and righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17.

You should be extremely terrified of that day if you are in fact guilty of teaching a torturous hell.

Those POOR scriptures that mention the word ''''''fire'''''' have been so badly abused by so many to mean '''''''brazen bull type torture''''' and NOT what JESUS HIMSELF STATES in Luke 16:19-31.

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I would never run from discussion or ignore scripture on this topic. You say I don't want to accept certain scriptures? What are they? I have studied and debated this topic for 15 years. Please tell me these scriptures that you know of that incriminate God.

 

[Twistie]

Imagine facing God one day and being guilty of teaching the lost that He loves and died for, that He sit a top a list of the most evil Beings to ever live. (This is exactly what you and others insinuate when you teach that God tortures people in hell for all eternity) This after knowing that prophets who knew Him better than you or I defined Him as good Psalm 136:1 and righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17.

You should be extremely terrified of that day if you are in fact guilty of teaching a torturous hell.

Those POOR scriptures that mention the word ''''''fire'''''' have been so badly abused by so many to mean '''''''brazen bull type torture''''' and NOT what JESUS HIMSELF STATES in Luke 16:19-31.

------------------------------

I am not the one running from scripture or discussion. You say I don't want to accept certain scriptures? What are they? I have studied and debated this topic for 15 years. Please tell me these scriptures that you know of that incriminate God.

Idk I don't get what your trying to prove I just know that apparently being separated from Abba is not torture n torment for you I presume..

Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.



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[KingJ]

Idk I don't get what your trying to prove I just know that apparently being separated from Abba is not torture n torment for you I presume..

Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.



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You made specific statements to my post that made it seem like you agree with and believe in a torturous hell. Now you are talking about something that has nothing to do with anything you said or insinuated. Not sure I am following your thoughts.

 

[Twistie]

You made specific statements to my post that made it seem like you agree with and believe in a torturous hell. Now you are talking about something that has nothing to do with anything you said or insinuated. Not sure I am following your thoughts.

Like I said I presume being separated for Abba isn't no biggie for you..

I guess it's roses n tulips being in darkness for some

I believe the Word some men/woman are so prideful they think the Word needs to be explained n don't believe that The Spirit of the Lord teaches His own

I don't agree with no man I believe what the Spirit of the Lord says n I follow Him..

You wanna bicker what the darkness is like..

How that's bringing others closer, to Him I know not..

Like I said I don't get those who claim to be followers of the Word yet don't believe what the Word says

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Seems you wanna take that fear away frfr

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[KingJ]

Like I said I presume being separated for Abba isn't no biggie for you..

I guess it's roses n tulips being in darkness for some

I believe the Word some men/woman are so prideful they think the Word needs to be explained n don't believe that The Spirit of the Lord teaches His own

I don't agree with no man I believe what the Spirit of the Lord says n I follow Him..

You wanna bicker what the darkness is like..

There is no need to assume what I believe on eternal hell. I properly explain myself in the OP here What to expect in hell

How that's bringing others closer, to Him I know not..

I am not sure you are understanding the point I am making.

You and others want to imply that God sit a top a list of the most evil Beings to ever live. That is the logical thing to believe when you state eternal torture. Torture as defined here Discussion on Torture.

People accept Jesus and come to God BECAUSE God IS good Psalm 136:1 and righteous in ALL HIS WAYS to the EXCLUSION OF NONE Psalm 145:17!!!

That IS THE MESSAGE WE HAVE heard from Him!!

1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

Like I said I don't get those who claim to be followers of the Word yet don't believe what the Word says

Like I said I don't get those who claim to be followers and misrepresent God and when asked for scripture to support their assertions, they provide none.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Seems you wanna take that fear away frfr

God does not need to TORTURE someone for you to fear Him. This is such an insane line.

Please properly read my OP in this thread What to expect in hell and feel free to post your rebuttal here if you disagree.

 

[Curtis]

Torment torture call it what ya will but YH is Light n when He separates Him from you your in darkness..

For me myself that would be torment n torture

¯⁠\⁠_⁠ʘ⁠‿⁠ʘ⁠_⁠/⁠¯

I guess you are having a hard time believing in God,s word.

 

[Twistie]

There is no need to assume what I believe on eternal hell. I properly explain myself in the OP here What to expect in hell



I am not sure you are understanding the point I am making.

You and others want to imply that God sit a top a list of the most evil Beings to ever live. That is the logical thing to believe when you state eternal torture. Torture as defined here Discussion on Torture.

People accept Jesus and come to God BECAUSE God IS good and righteous in ALL HIS WAYS to the EXCLUSION OF NONE!!!

That IS THE MESSAGE WE HAVE heard from Him!!

1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.



Like I said I don't get those who claim to be followers and misrepresent God and when asked for scripture to support their assertions, they provide none.



God does not need to TORTURE someone for you to fear Him. This is such an insane line.

Please properly read my OP in this thread What to expect in hell and feel free to post your rebuttal here if you disagree.

I said what I said you n a couple others like to bicker about words

Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Like I said I don't get people that claim to follow but don't believe as the Messiah says

Why do you call me Lord Lord..

Separation is separation only Abbas knows what's in that darkness and what one will experience..

This sums up this combo fo me

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain".

(⁠⌐⁠■⁠-⁠■⁠)

 

[Twistie]

I guess you are having a hard time believing in God,s word.

Nope not at All Holy Spirit is a very good teacher..
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

ಠ⁠ω⁠ಠ

 

[Twistie]

There is no need to assume what I believe on eternal hell. I properly explain myself in the OP here What to expect in hell



I am not sure you are understanding the point I am making.

You and others want to imply that God sit a top a list of the most evil Beings to ever live. That is the logical thing to believe when you state eternal torture. Torture as defined here Discussion on Torture.

People accept Jesus and come to God BECAUSE God IS good Psalm 136:1 and righteous in ALL HIS WAYS to the EXCLUSION OF NONE Psalm 145:17!!!

That IS THE MESSAGE WE HAVE heard from Him!!

1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.



Like I said I don't get those who claim to be followers and misrepresent God and when asked for scripture to support their assertions, they provide none.



God does not need to TORTURE someone for you to fear Him. This is such an insane line.

Please properly read my OP in this thread What to expect in hell and feel free to post your rebuttal here if you disagree.

And apparently if ya was separated from the light it wouldn't be torture for you..

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

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[KingJ]

And apparently if ya was separated from the light it wouldn't be torture for you..

Read!!! this link. if you did, you would not be typing such silly lines.

Thread 'Discussion on Torture'

Aug 22, 2023

Hi all. I think a discussion on torture will shed a lot of much needed light on controversial scripture that many use to incriminate God.

I want to make the argument that a good person cannot torture. Only the evil torture. The moment someone is guilty of torture, they are guilty of being evil.

Let's first 1. properly define torture, then 2. consider the reality of it and then 3. look at what history teaches us.

1. Defining torture:

Torture can be slowly pulling a persons limbs apart or it can be a teacher with an annoying voice. There are degrees.

For the purposes...

• KingJ
• Replies: 13
• Forum: Bible Study

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

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I cannot think of someone further from God than someone who supports a belief that teaches He is not love.

1 John 4:8 The one who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

 

[KingJ]

@Twistie

Scripture says God is love 1 John 4:8 and righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17.

Explain how eternal torture, something like placing someone in a brazen bull for all eternity, is evidence of love and righteousness.

Go, floor is yours. I am open to correction.

 

[Twistie]

@Twistie

Scripture says God is love 1 John 4:8 and righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17.

Explain how eternal torture, something like placing someone in a brazen bull for all eternity, is evidence of love and righteousness.

Go, floor is yours. I am open to correction.

Explain to me how being separated for Abba having no light having nothing good isn't torment n torture

¯⁠\⁠_⁠༼⁠ᴼ⁠ل͜⁠ᴼ⁠༽⁠_⁠/⁠¯