What do you believe?

[Rhema]

Now, if @Rhema would take his job as an ambassador of God 2 Cor 5:20 seriously, he would not reply like a child but take these accusations seriously.

Paul was speaking of himself and Timothy, not YOU. (Or me.) Again, he was speaking to believers about himself (and Timothy), not them. Are you an Apostle? When were you appointed an Apostle? (Just wondering.)

True Narcissism is to take that verse and apply it to oneself, even boasting about it.

...need to all explain WHY THEY TEACH THAT GOD IS EVIL!!!

I don't (teach that God is Evil). You just don't understand evil, or more specifically, have been unable to understand what I have posted. And yes, though I reject the Trinity, I've not posted what I believe about the divinity of Christ. It is unfortunate that you haven't figured that out yet. It's also unfortunate that you haven't figured out that I don't answer to you either (another element of true narcissism).

I wish I was a mod that could force it.

No doubt. Because that violence is in your heart. Why else would you post such a thing?

1 Cor 12:3 says that if you do not know Jesus as Lord, you do not know Him.

Then (if you know him) why do you reject the teaching of Jesus where he says that we should pray to the Father? (Actually, being written in the imperative mood, PRAY is a command.)

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.​

(Matthew 6:9 KJV)

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?​

(Luke 6:46 KJV)

Isa 9:6 says

For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.​

(Isaiah 9:6 Brenton)

Bad scripture creates bad doctrine.

Grasping the trinity is not that easy. It is a spiritual truth and requires our carnal mind to believe that God can separate Himself from Himself.

How wonderfully insane.

Now it is very 'human' and carnal to teach a half-truth on this, holding only on to the type of scriptures you have cherry picked. It seems logical as we are separate beings. But then I must ask you, where does God come from? God and who He is certainly NOT logical and something we can fully grasp. If He says He became flesh to die for us, we believe Him and hope that in heaven we will better grasp this truth. Especially when teaching that He did not die for us so HEAVILY incriminates Him!

I find it both sad and hilarious that you think yourself quite competent in logic. You've not just posted a straw man, you're commanding a straw army.

Do you even hear your own voice? That God is not logical? And if "who God is" cannot be "fully grasped," then why do you insist that you understand it enough to teach it?

We are now in the realm of the absurd.

Now, can you explain to me how it is that Christians all over the world are compelled by the Spirit of God to worship and praise Jesus when God is a jealous God!

We hadn't been discussing worship and praise. I merely pointed out to you that Jesus taught that we should PRAY to the Father. You're smart enough to know that changing the words is disingenuous, so I cannot help but find you to be a purposeful liar, regardless of the opinion that @Christ4Ever holds for you.

Paul says He wants to know NOTHING save Christ and Him crucified!

Whereas Peter preaches Jesus and Him resurrected. While the Messiah rejected all sacrifice and even stopped the sacrifices in the Temple, Paul turned Jesus into a human sacrifice. (A thing that never bothered either Gentile or Aztec.)

If I was a god I would get upset and jealous at that statement. Wouldn't you?

How wonderfully anthropomorphic... to attribute human sentiments to God. God is not a man, as @bowwow has repeatedly posted.

Are all Christians except for you, wrong?

Tell me. How can you forgive a debt that's been paid?

Think about it.
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

when he teaches the lost that God does not give us true free will, does not love us and is unjust.

You misunderstand quite a lot. I have never taught that, nor can you find one post where I have. Instead, there are numerous posts where you have put those words into my mouth. (STRAW MAN... yes?)

I would like for @Rhema to provide a rational explanation

No doubt you would.

But that would demand that I believe you could understand a rational explanation were I to give one. From our months of discourse, it is evident to me that such is a lost cause. Face it, you came unglued when I merely posted scripture. Do you truly think that anybody will respond to your anger and misrepresentations?

God bless,
Rhema

 

[Garee]

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Remember there can only be one will the one with "Let there be good power"

 

[Christ4Ever]

One day in Christ Jesus, if so blessed, you will both see the foolishness of how you have behaved towards each other,

I quoted scripture. Are you now just as foolish to reject that as well?

If that is all you have included in your postings to each other is scripture, I would not be involved and the reason I said "behaved" above.

One example I used to use in training new folks on customer service was the different ways a person could say "good morning". Usually only one way actually communicates it as heart felt, reflecting a desirous well-being for the other. A more scriptural example with a twist is the one exchange between Jesus and Peter: What I would call the "Do you love me?" exchange.

I would not have responded at all to your post, but for the above comment you made. Clearly you haven't found the bug that has you and KingJ, may I say, "rubbing each other the wrong way".

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator/YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
P.S.

Like ham and lobster?

Depends on you all's preferences.
Also depending on who did the cooking, I might have to beat you both to those...though I'm sure there would be enough to go around!

 

[Rhema]

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Hi Curtis,

Thank you for the reply, but I would ask that you look closely at verses 13 and 14 (the ones you highlighted) and realize that the person to whom one should ask is not specified in these verses. It just says "ask." The text does NOT say, "whatsoever ye shall ask ME, that will I do." Jesus does not say in these verses that we are to ask him, but that we are to ask "IN his name." Any common reader at that time, indeed any Hebrew, would instinctively know that we are to ask God whom Jesus called his Father.

I rather don't think it's a good thing to add in words or change the words. Furthermore, to ask IN someone's name, means that one is asking another person IN the name of Jesus. And to whom else would we ask IN the name of Jesus but the Father?

Christians tend to merely skim their Bible, and since most are already indoctrinated with the Trinity, not to mention groomed by their traditions, most wouldn't make this distinction and add in words without having a problem, despite the numerous verses where a follower of Jesus is commanded to pray TO the Father. But if I understand you correctly, you would reject John 15:16 and John 16:23 where Jesus specifically teaches that we should ask the FATHER?

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.​

(John 15:16 KJV)

And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.​

(John 16:23 KJV)

Please read it again. Jesus specifically says "ask me nothing."

When reading John 14:13,14, one does need to think about WHO is being asked? Since those verses do not specify, whereas other verses DO specify, one can only conclude that we are to ask the Father.... IN Jesus' name. Why would you end a prayer TO Jesus with the words "IN Jesus' name"? Doesn't that just sound bizarre?

The first martyr Stephen, prayed to Jesus just before his death.

Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

With regards to Acts 7:59, unfortunately we have some Greek grammar issues in the manuscripts. The word "saying" seems to be plural - THEY were saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Now I understand the traditional teachings of Christian churches, but just looking at the action of the KJV, "THEY" stoned Stephen; THEY were invoking God, and THEY were saying (in a mocking tone) "Lord Jesus receive my spirit."

I realize that this is some deep waters here, and it's certainly against the traditions of the church, but λεγοντα (with a missing iota at the end) is plural. So... it's not a proof that I can accept. Those who were stoning Stephen said these words, not Stephen himself... IF we are to read the manuscripts as written, without changing them to fit a traditional Sunday school narrative.

The New Testament is filled with people asking Jesus for healing or deliverance.

After he ascended into heaven? I don't think so, but please, I'd ask that you let me know which verses you think say this.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

I would not have responded at all to your post, but for the above comment you made

... which is why I made it.

A more scriptural example with a twist is the one exchange between Jesus and Peter: What I would call the "Do you love me?" exchange

Indeed, with the play on words PHILEW and AGAPE. But how can English readers see this?

..though I'm sure there would be enough to go around!

Sigh.... (maybe later).