What does Jesus mean when he says

[jiggyfly]

Jiggyfly for Gal3:19 No this passage refer to the law that was "added" or Moses Law, which was a ceremonial law governing the sacraficialsystem and the priesthood. All of this ceremony and ritual FORESHADOWED the cross and ended at Christs death, as God had intented. Moses Law was added till the "Seed should come", and that "Seed ...is Christ"Gal3:19,16). Gods Law could not be involved here, for Paul spoke of it as holy, just, and good many years after the cross. ROM7:7,12

Please show where the where Paul said the "added" law was done away. You are adding to the scriptures to support your religious paradigm. David and myself have only quoted the scriptures and corrected you and some others for taking parts out of their context and twisting the intended meaning.

Paul clearly places the ten commandments engraved in stone within the " ministration of death" or "old way" and states that it has been replaced. To deny this one would have to be blinded to the truth.

 

[David777]

Please show where the where Paul said the "added" law was done away. You are adding to the scriptures to support your religious paradigm. David and myself have only quoted the scriptures and corrected you and some others for taking parts out of their context and twisting the intended meaning.

Paul clearly places the ten commandments engraved in stone within the " ministration of death" or "old way" and states that it has been replaced. To deny this one would have to be blinded to the truth.

Yes jiggyfly, they definitely do add to the scripture
their own interpretation and desperately seek to
separate the "law" into different segments. God's
law and the law of Moses, problem is the scripture does
not validate or instruct us to separate the law. That
is the theology of the sda organization.

There is no twist available to alter the simple statement
of Paul.

7 The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death,

The old way, the old covenant, the ten commandments,
the law etched in stone leads to death, the ministry of death.

By the way bgsda, you stated that jiggyfly and myself only
quote from Paul. If you look back through the posts you
will notice that I also quoted from Exodus and John.

 

[bgsda]

Ok you guys are going to believe what u want anyway, my hands are clean now. You wrte told and failed to want to search the Scriptures for the difference between Gods Law and Moses Law. I will put up many differences up one last time because of love. Then I wil respect what you want to believe, but cant agree. Also please be careful to teach others another gospel because of vain trditions as Christ put it in Mark7:7-9.

Old Covenant was an expression of Gods commitment to rescue the world from sin through Israel. God spoke Ten Commandments before writting it, but whenwhen conditions of the special covenant contract between God and Isareal were announced to the nations MOSES stood as a mediator between them (EX20:22-23:33 and Ex.24:3. After MOSES writing the ceremonial law( big difference) put it beside the ark(Deut. 31:24-26). Stood as a witness against them Deut29-20,21.
Unfortunetly the Jewish nation began to apply the Book of the Law as a means to obtain righteousness and twisting Gods purpose to their own destruction. Even under the Old Covenant, true followers of God knew they could not earn rigjteousness Jer23:6/Hosea 10:12/Isa. 61:10, 64:6. Ten Commandments were central part of Old Covenant.
NEW COVENANT
Christ nailed the Old Covenant and the ordinances of the Law of Moses to the Cross. Col2:14
Christ is our New Covenant with God! The 10 Commandments Law of God-written in our hearts and minds(Heb.10:16)- is the heart ofe the New Covenant, just as it was with the Old Covenant.

LAW OF GOD LAW OF MOSES
called Law of the Lord Isa.5:24 Called Law of Moses Luke 2:22/1Cor. 9:9
Written by God on stone Ex.31:18,32:16 Written by Moses in a Book Deut.31:24/2Chron.35:12
Placed inside the Ark Ex.40:20 placed by the SIDE of the ark Deut.31:26
Gods Law POINTS out sin Rom.3:20,7:7 Moses Law ADDED because of sin Gal.3:19
Gods Law NOT grievous 1John5:3 Moses Law was CONTRARY to us Col.2:14
Gods Law is called "Royal Law" James2:18 Mose Law called"law contained in ordinances"Eph2:15
Gods Law judges ALL men James2:10-12 Moses Law judges NO MEN Col.2:14-16
Gods Law is SPIRITUAL Rom.7:14 Mose Law CARNAL Heb.7:16
Gods Law brings blessings and peace Prov.29:18/ Moses Law contained CURSES Duet.29:20,21/Gal.3:10
Psalms 119:165
Gods Law is PERFECT Psalm 19:7 Moses law made NOTHING perfect Heb.7:19
Gods Law is ETERNAL Matt.5:17-19/Psalms 111:7,8 Moses Law TEMPORARY Col.2:14/Heb.8:13

Please I prayerfully hope that you guys will consider these important truths and search them tobsee whether it is so. The Laws are different as clearly seen. Its the misapplying of the laws that throw many off. Also yes the Commandments were part of the Old but most importantly its the heart of the new covenant NOW? God bless you guys and much love. I will keep you in my prayers. Any questions jut ask.

 

[jiggyfly]

Ok you guys are going to believe what u want anyway, my hands are clean now. You wrte told and failed to want to search the Scriptures for the difference between Gods Law and Moses Law. I will put up many differences up one last time because of love. Then I wil respect what you want to believe, but cant agree. Also please be careful to teach others another gospel because of vain trditions as Christ put it in Mark7:7-9.

Old Covenant was an expression of Gods commitment to rescue the world from sin through Israel. God spoke Ten Commandments before writting it, but whenwhen conditions of the special covenant contract between God and Isareal were announced to the nations MOSES stood as a mediator between them (EX20:22-23:33 and Ex.24:3. After MOSES writing the ceremonial law( big difference) put it beside the ark(Deut. 31:24-26). Stood as a witness against them Deut29-20,21.
Unfortunetly the Jewish nation began to apply the Book of the Law as a means to obtain righteousness and twisting Gods purpose to their own destruction. Even under the Old Covenant, true followers of God knew they could not earn rigjteousness Jer23:6/Hosea 10:12/Isa. 61:10, 64:6. Ten Commandments were central part of Old Covenant.
NEW COVENANT
Christ nailed the Old Covenant and the ordinances of the Law of Moses to the Cross. Col2:14
Christ is our New Covenant with God! The 10 Commandments Law of God-written in our hearts and minds(Heb.10:16)- is the heart ofe the New Covenant, just as it was with the Old Covenant.

LAW OF GOD LAW OF MOSES
called Law of the Lord Isa.5:24 Called Law of Moses Luke 2:22/1Cor. 9:9
Written by God on stone Ex.31:18,32:16 Written by Moses in a Book Deut.31:24/2Chron.35:12
Placed inside the Ark Ex.40:20 placed by the SIDE of the ark Deut.31:26
Gods Law POINTS out sin Rom.3:20,7:7 Moses Law ADDED because of sin Gal.3:19
Gods Law NOT grievous 1John5:3 Moses Law was CONTRARY to us Col.2:14
Gods Law is called "Royal Law" James2:18 Mose Law called"law contained in ordinances"Eph2:15
Gods Law judges ALL men James2:10-12 Moses Law judges NO MEN Col.2:14-16
Gods Law is SPIRITUAL Rom.7:14 Mose Law CARNAL Heb.7:16
Gods Law brings blessings and peace Prov.29:18/ Moses Law contained CURSES Duet.29:20,21/Gal.3:10
Psalms 119:165
Gods Law is PERFECT Psalm 19:7 Moses law made NOTHING perfect Heb.7:19
Gods Law is ETERNAL Matt.5:17-19/Psalms 111:7,8 Moses Law TEMPORARY Col.2:14/Heb.8:13

Please I prayerfully hope that you guys will consider these important truths and search them tobsee whether it is so. The Laws are different as clearly seen. Its the misapplying of the laws that throw many off. Also yes the Commandments were part of the Old but most importantly its the heart of the new covenant NOW? God bless you guys and much love. I will keep you in my prayers. Any questions jut ask.

I am familiar with the scriptures you posted and I am also familiar with the religious paradigm that you employ, I simply disagree with your opinion on them and many others to boot. I think your religious paradigm has blinded you towards the truth conveyed through the scriptures and that you are of the same mindset of those (Judaizers) Paul taught and preached against in his day. But since you have clean hands now is it safe to assume you are done with the discussion?

 

[David777]

Bgsda I ask that you furnish the scripture to support your
statements.

The first statement that you must support with scripture
is what you stated.

"Old Covenant was an expression of Gods commitment to rescue
the world from sin through Israel."

The next statement you made needs to be fully supported
from the scriptures. We are not interested in theology but
in what the scriptures proclaim bgsda.

"God spoke Ten Commandments before writting it"

Please show bgsda just where the ten commandments
were spoken before Mt Sinai. You of course will need to
prove beyond reasonable doubt that all ten words were
spoken as commandments or laws.

Next you said;

"Ten Commandments were central part of Old Covenant."

Now where in the Old Testament is it stated that the first
ten commandments were central to the old covenant.

Your distinction between "God's law" and "the law of Moses"
is not stated in the verses you quoted bgsda. Here are the verses
you quoted.

Romans 3:20 (NKJV)
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight,
for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary,
I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have
known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Neither of these verses distinguish between God's law and
the law of Moses. The text just says "law" not "God's law".
You imagination is running wild bgsda, you must prove
from the scripture not infer.

Your next statement will also need to be justified bgsda.

"Moses Law ADDED because of sin Gal.3:19"

The text does not say "Moses Law" it says only "law".
Here it is "19 What purpose then does the law serve?"

"Gods Law NOT grievous 1John5:3"

1 John 5:3
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.
And His commandments are not burdensome.

Any person who did not understand the Gospel of
Jesus Christ would naturally assume that the words
referred to above are the words spoken upon Mt Sinai.
Hundreds of commands, but we are aware that Jesus did
in fact command us in the laws of love. Love from a pure
heart is the goal of the Christian instruction.

"Gods Law is called "Royal Law" James2:18"

"The 10 Commandments Law of God-written in our hearts and minds(Heb.10:16)-
is the heart ofe the New Covenant, just as it was with the Old Covenant."

There is no mention of the "ten commandments" in the New
Testament. Hebrews 10:16 does not state the ten commandments.
God says "my laws". Which we know are the "Royal" laws, love
from a pure heart towards God and our neighbor.

Gods Law is called "Royal Law" James2:18

8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;

This is not one of the ten commandments bgsda.

Leviticus 19:18
You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children
of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.

Since this law is not of the ten then it must not be
God's laws, you cannot have it both ways bgsda.

In fact the commandments you think are God's laws
and are separate to the law of Moses is refuted by
the following;

1 Kings 2:3
Keep the charge of the LORD your God, to walk in His ways,
to keep His statutes, His commandments, His ordinances, and
His testimonies, according to what is written in the Law of Moses,
that you may succeed in all that you do and wherever you turn,

All words or commandments are included in the law of Moses.
When the word "law" occurs in the New Testament it is always
in reference to the law of Moses.

The Gospel is and only is the death and resurrection
of Jesus Christ. Read the following verse and you would
be well advised not to add to the Gospel.

1 Corinthians 2
2 And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech
or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined to
know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

Paul states that there is no additional requirement,
"to know nothing among you" other that the simple
gospel of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 6:14
But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ,
through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God
raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes,
resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Titus 3:5-7
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness,
but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by
the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our
Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according
to the hope of eternal life.

 

[bgsda]

David im sorry but I believe the post I posted well explain it all. Ffirst the differemce of two laws, Moses ad Gods Law. Ill will just answer the question about God speaking the Law, Ten Commandments, then writting them. Im sorry I already did. He spoke it in Ex.20 then pwrote them on tabletsof stonein Ex21 i nelieve. It was when Moses came down and broke them.

Anyway I can answer ur questions all day, you will just not understand or be led by the Holy Spirit with an attitude of contention. Always trying to prove a fight csomething. The Lord said that we will not make it to heaven unless we become like a child, it says it somewhere in

 

[Gmart]

Hi all, there are so many things that have been said that I would like to comment on but rather than drudging up a bunch of quotes I will give my mind on the matter.

First off I want to say that I truly believe that no one man has all the truth, as it says, "12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." 1 Co 13:12. That being said what I am bout to say is merely the way I understand these issues pertaining to the law to be displayed in scripture and not something that the Spirit has confirmed or denied.

I believe that the Lord first desired a personal relationship with Israel but they refused to come up to the mount and talk with God thus out of this rebellion the law was given. The law reigned until the death of Christ but as some have shown, it is in no way dismissed at this time. I think the life and death of Christ was the fulfillment of the law and all who would accept the gift now offered have fulfilled the law through Christ which dwells in us. If we haven't received the gift then we are still under the law and will be judged by it. At Christs' return I think the gift of salvation by grace is thus ended and all will then be returned unto the law.

Salvation at this time I believe is purely by faith. As some have pointed out faith without works is dead, good works ought to follow faith in Christ. Salvation is not dependent on the works but the works are a sign of the faith. I also feel that God desires from us the thing that he has always desired from man and that is a repentant heart and a willingness to walk according to God's leading.

I choose to approach this walk with the knowledge that I am just as susceptible to error as the next and that it is the Spirit that needs to teach me not some man or book of man or even my own reasoning for these all lead to error. I earnestly hope that someday I may decrease enough and Christ in me increase enough that I walk as he did in saying and doing only those things that the father directs.

 

[David777]

Hi all, there are so many things that have been said that I would like to comment on but rather than drudging up a bunch of quotes I will give my mind on the matter.

First off I want to say that I truly believe that no one man has all the truth, as it says, "12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." 1 Co 13:12. That being said what I am bout to say is merely the way I understand these issues pertaining to the law to be displayed in scripture and not something that the Spirit has confirmed or denied.

I believe that the Lord first desired a personal relationship with Israel but they refused to come up to the mount and talk with God thus out of this rebellion the law was given. The law reigned until the death of Christ but as some have shown, it is in no way dismissed at this time. I think the life and death of Christ was the fulfillment of the law and all who would accept the gift now offered have fulfilled the law through Christ which dwells in us. If we haven't received the gift then we are still under the law and will be judged by it. At Christs' return I think the gift of salvation by grace is thus ended and all will then be returned unto the law.

Salvation at this time I believe is purely by faith. As some have pointed out faith without works is dead, good works ought to follow faith in Christ. Salvation is not dependent on the works but the works are a sign of the faith. I also feel that God desires from us the thing that he has always desired from man and that is a repentant heart and a willingness to walk according to God's leading.

I choose to approach this walk with the knowledge that I am just as susceptible to error as the next and that it is the Spirit that needs to teach me not some man or book of man or even my own reasoning for these all lead to error. I earnestly hope that someday I may decrease enough and Christ in me increase enough that I walk as he did in saying and doing only those things that the father directs.

Well said Gmart, what you said is the simple Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Your reading of the scriptures is accurate and in context.

To understand that the law was given to Israel is simply
what the scripture states.

Full marks Gmart and thankyou.

 

[james g]

As to the believer's rule of life, Paul does not say, "To me to live is law"; but, "To me to live is Christ." The Lord Jesus Christ is our sole rule of life, our Source, our All. The indwelling Spirit of Christ brings the very life and nature of the glorified Lord Jesus Christ into the Christian--as his very Christian life! He does not produce the works of the law, but rather the gracious fruit of the Spirit, the lovely characteristics of the divine/human life of the Lord Jesus. Yes, the very "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 8:2).

 

[bgsda]

Whats the Biblical definition of SIN? ROM7:7/ 1JOHN 3:4? WHICH Law is being spoken of here.

 

[Puddleglum]

Hi all, there are so many things that have been said that I would like to comment on but rather than drudging up a bunch of quotes I will give my mind on the matter.

First off I want to say that I truly believe that no one man has all the truth, as it says, "12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." 1 Co 13:12. That being said what I am bout to say is merely the way I understand these issues pertaining to the law to be displayed in scripture and not something that the Spirit has confirmed or denied.

I believe that the Lord first desired a personal relationship with Israel but they refused to come up to the mount and talk with God thus out of this rebellion the law was given. The law reigned until the death of Christ but as some have shown, it is in no way dismissed at this time. I think the life and death of Christ was the fulfillment of the law and all who would accept the gift now offered have fulfilled the law through Christ which dwells in us. If we haven't received the gift then we are still under the law and will be judged by it. At Christs' return I think the gift of salvation by grace is thus ended and all will then be returned unto the law.

Salvation at this time I believe is purely by faith. As some have pointed out faith without works is dead, good works ought to follow faith in Christ. Salvation is not dependent on the works but the works are a sign of the faith. I also feel that God desires from us the thing that he has always desired from man and that is a repentant heart and a willingness to walk according to God's leading.

I choose to approach this walk with the knowledge that I am just as susceptible to error as the next and that it is the Spirit that needs to teach me not some man or book of man or even my own reasoning for these all lead to error. I earnestly hope that someday I may decrease enough and Christ in me increase enough that I walk as he did in saying and doing only those things that the father directs.

They refused to come up ? i thought it was that they were not allowed to come up. verse ?

 

[brakelite]

Yes jiggyfly, they definitely do add to the scripture
their own interpretation and desperately seek to
separate the "law" into different segments. God's
law and the law of Moses, problem is the scripture does
not validate or instruct us to separate the law. That
is the theology of the sda organization.

There is no twist available to alter the simple statement
of Paul.

7 The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death,

The old way, the old covenant, the ten commandments,
the law etched in stone leads to death, the ministry of death.

By the way bgsda, you stated that jiggyfly and myself only
quote from Paul. If you look back through the posts you
will notice that I also quoted from Exodus and John.

In your desperation to defy God's authority to demand obedience to all His commandments, (btw John, by inspiration of God's Holy Spirit tells us that we must walk as Jesus walked; Jesus , by His own testimony, and He cannot lie, kept His Father's commandments, therefore so must we) you fly in the face of revelation. If Moses law, so called, was all there was, tell me, whose law did Abraham keep, a patriarch who lived 4 to 500 years before Moses?
Ge 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Ask yourself, Who is speaking the above words???

Now we know that without law, there is no knowledge of sin. So tell me, by what law then is Satan going to be indicted under for his lies and murders, seeing he was a liar and murderer from the beginning???

Tell me, by whose law is Cain going to be charged under for murder, if there was no such law at the time of his offence?

Tell me, how did Joseph know it was an offense to God to commit adultery?

God was going to judge the king Abraham gave his wife Sarah to...by what law was God going to do this act of justice if there was no law against adultery?

I could go on...the point being that before Moses there was sin...there were sinners...of all shapes, sizes, and colours....therefore before Moses there must have been a law...and in order to indict and punish sinners...and they were....it must have been God's law...later written on stone with great fanfare...a copy of what had been previously revealed and transgressed against since the time of Adam...seperate and distinct from the law of Moses...which was introduced as a remedy for the transgressions against the previously revealed laws of God. Now if you cannot understand this I am truly sorry...I suggest you return to your knees and ask for insight because it really is quite simple.

It is not a church, or any individual or group of individuals who make the distinction between God's law and the law of Moses. It was God Himself who personally instructed Moses to place His laws in the ark. This Moses did. God also instructed Moses to place the so-called law of Moses (although in reality they were God's specific instructions also) which were written by Moses own hand on parchment (or whatever he used in those days...a book or scroll of some sort) on the side of the ark. Two distinct seperate laws, two distinct seperate purposes, two distinct seperate lifespans. One eternal and permanent, the other temporary.

 

[bgsda]

Well said brakelite. I showed my daughter when she was about 8, the verses I put up earlier aboit the def. of sin. Told her do not believe everything i say or your mother or a pastor about the Word of God but search for it in the Bible to see whether it is so. She wanted to know what sin is so I took her to these verses, remember shes was 8 at the time. She understood what sin meant. Why cant many here in this forum cant.

Remember we wrestle not with carnal things but spiritual. Please, please pray and ask for God to open your eyes. Put aside pride and self exultation. I am interested to hear from everyone from brakelitems post before this one

 

[bgsda]

Great points brakelite. Im very interested to hear from everyone about brakelites post.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Go and sin no more?

Does he mean be sinless?

or try to not sin?

Quenton; what do you believe it says?

When Jesus said "Go and sin no more" He was telling her that the ability to sin was still there, but that she should not allow herself to do it. How difficult this must have been for her without the Holy Spirit to help! What do you think Quenton, do you think she tried not to sin anymore? Do you think she succeeded in not sinning?

That is why we as believers, as you can see from the lines being drawn in the sand by your brothers in Christ Jesus, that the topic of "sin and believers" can bring out much to chew on. Allow the Holy Spirit to guide you in the reading of His Word, that understanding might be revealed to you. Just remember that it might not happen right away. Be persistent :thumbs_up

Now a little something something for the others on this thread.

Galatians 5:14-26
[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [15] But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. [16] [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. [17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. [18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. [25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [26] Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

So neither following the law or not following is of gain. Only being a new creation is what matters.

So please peace brothers and sisters. We know that our actions if of the flesh (v19, 20, 21) are not in accord with walking in the spirit and failure of the commandment set to us by our Lord Jesus Christ, which is John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." and the fruits of the spirit (v22, 23). If you fail to "live in the spirit" your "walk in the Spirit" (v25) may very well also be compromised, and you will without a doubt not be reflective of being the new creation you are meant to be.

Whether you define this failure as sin, or some other word that reflects your walking in the flesh verses the spirit, you are not reflecting the attributes of a new creature through Christ Jesus. Keep in mind that being saved does not preclude one from sinning as 1 John 2:1 shows " My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" What is this sin, but once again that one has deviated from living, and walking in the Spirit, and have now taken a different path back to the flesh, if but temporary. We must remember that we have not lost our advocate with God the Father! We still have Jesus! Alleluia!

We are not yet perfect, so fail in our walking in the Spirit. We get back up and continue to go forward, praying for that forgiveness in the weakness of our flesh and the strength to overcome. Just as the adulterous woman was told by our Lord and Savior "Go and sin no more." I will continue with the knowledge that I have a mediator in Christ Jesus, should my walk in the Spirit falter. Which I pray it never will, and in so doing be an Overcomer! What a glorious day that will be! Praying to see you all there!!!!!!

YBIC
C4E

 

[David777]

Hello brakelite.

Well, you do become excited quickly and as usual
the accusations are sure to follow. I do not hold it
against you brakelite because I understand the
theology of the sda and how they view those who
do not share their interpretation.

"desperation to defy God's authority"

As I have now become accustomed to this level of
behavior from sda adherents I will just ignore that
comment.

Your questions were numerous hence the replies are
even larger. When will you learn to be brief, brakelite?

We will utilize the basic tool for understanding scripture.
Let scripture interpret scripture, always mindful of context.

Genesis 26

4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven;
I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all
the nations of the earth shall be blessed;

5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge,
My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

I will list the commandments or instructions that God
gave to Abraham. These commands are scattered through
Genesis and readers may be unaware of them. We are not
permitted to move beyond the scripture so I will stay
within the text. Now in order, all the commands, etc, that
God gave to Abraham.

a) Abraham obeyed God’s commandment to leave the country
of origin. (Genesis 12:1)

b) God commanded Abraham to change his name
from Abram to Abraham. (Genesis 17:5)

The next command brakelite I will have to quote
as it is a covenant, a dispensation made to Abraham
which Paul mentions frequently. It is of special
interest to us.

c) This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you
and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall
be circumcised; (Genesis 17:10)

This is the origin of the Jews who prided themselves on the dual
covenant, Abraham and Mosaic covenants "circumcision".

d) Abraham was told that his wife would have a new name, Sarah
(Genesis 17:15)

e) God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Issac.
(Genesis 22:2)

The following commandment or word is one of the
greatest commands of the Old Testament.

g) In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed,
because you have obeyed My voice. (Genesis 22:18)

When God speaks we listen.

That is the answer to your question on Genesis 26:5.

So brakelite, that answer was pure scripture.

Then you made the statement below.

"Now we know that without law, there is no knowledge of sin."

I am not sure whether you actually read the scripture
or not brakelite. I am rather concerned at this ill informed
remark? This type of statement arises from someone who
is not aware of the context of a letter and the intended
audience of the letter. Here is the refutation of your
comment.

Romans 2
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law,
these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the
Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately
accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will
judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Now did you read "GENTILES WHO DO NOT HAVE THE LAW" brakelite?

How did you miss that?

I am certainly perplexed that you would base
your assumption that the Gentiles were given
the law without the support of scripture.
When there is not one line in the entire
Bible that states the Gentiles had or were ever
given the law. Gentiles are included within the New
Covenant not in the Old Covenant.

Your next question is by far the strangest.

"So tell me, by what law then is Satan going to be indicted
under for his lies and murders, seeing he was a liar and
murderer from the beginning???"

To tell a lie is not covered by the ten commandments.

You tell me brakelite your the expert on the ten words.

As for Cain, Genesis 4 mentions no law other than an
obvious correlation with Romans 2:14-15.

 

[Quenton]

Quenton; what do you believe it says?

When Jesus said "Go and sin no more" He was telling her that the ability to sin was still there, but that she should not allow herself to do it. How difficult this must have been for her without the Holy Spirit to help! What do you think Quenton, do you think she tried not to sin anymore? Do you think she succeeded in not sinning?

That is why we as believers, as you can see from the lines being drawn in the sand by your brothers in Christ Jesus, that the topic of "sin and believers" can bring out much to chew on. Allow the Holy Spirit to guide you in the reading of His Word, that understanding might be revealed to you. Just remember that it might not happen right away. Be persistent :thumbs_up

Now a little something something for the others on this thread.

Galatians 5:14-26
[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [15] But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. [16] [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. [17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. [18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. [25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [26] Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

So neither following the law or not following is of gain. Only being a new creation is what matters.

So please peace brothers and sisters. We know that our actions if of the flesh (v19, 20, 21) are not in accord with walking in the spirit and failure of the commandment set to us by our Lord Jesus Christ, which is John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." and the fruits of the spirit (v22, 23). If you fail to "live in the spirit" your "walk in the Spirit" (v25) may very well also be compromised, and you will without a doubt not be reflective of being the new creation you are meant to be.

Whether you define this failure as sin, or some other word that reflects your walking in the flesh verses the spirit, you are not reflecting the attributes of a new creature through Christ Jesus. Keep in mind that being saved does not preclude one from sinning as 1 John 2:1 shows " My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" What is this sin, but once again that one has deviated from living, and walking in the Spirit, and have now taken a different path back to the flesh, if but temporary. We must remember that we have not lost our advocate with God the Father! We still have Jesus! Alleluia!

We are not yet perfect, so fail in our walking in the Spirit. We get back up and continue to go forward, praying for that forgiveness in the weakness of our flesh and the strength to overcome. Just as the adulterous woman was told by our Lord and Savior "Go and sin no more." I will continue with the knowledge that I have a mediator in Christ Jesus, should my walk in the Spirit falter. Which I pray it never will, and in so doing be an Overcomer! What a glorious day that will be! Praying to see you all there!!!!!!

YBIC
C4E

John 5:14
John 8:11,34
1 Corinthians 15:34
Are a few of the verses that tell us to not sin. There is also the verse that says you cannot serve two masters.

Would Jesus tell us to stop sinning, sin no more if he hadn't taken into the knowledge of us being imperfect? The bible says for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory. But does that mean we are stuck doing sins work?

And 1 John 3:8 also says that he that commith sin is of the devil.
than in verse 9 goes on to say Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
So i must believe that God requires us to cease sinning

 

[Puddleglum]

Quenton; what do you believe it says?

When Jesus said "Go and sin no more" He was telling her that the ability to sin was still there, but that she should not allow herself to do it. How difficult this must have been for her without the Holy Spirit to help! What do you think Quenton, do you think she tried not to sin anymore? Do you think she succeeded in not sinning?

That is why we as believers, as you can see from the lines being drawn in the sand by your brothers in Christ Jesus, that the topic of "sin and believers" can bring out much to chew on. Allow the Holy Spirit to guide you in the reading of His Word, that understanding might be revealed to you. Just remember that it might not happen right away. Be persistent :thumbs_up

Now a little something something for the others on this thread.

Galatians 5:14-26
[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [15] But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. [16] [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. [17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. [18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. [19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. [25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [26] Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

So neither following the law or not following is of gain. Only being a new creation is what matters.

So please peace brothers and sisters. We know that our actions if of the flesh (v19, 20, 21) are not in accord with walking in the spirit and failure of the commandment set to us by our Lord Jesus Christ, which is John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." and the fruits of the spirit (v22, 23). If you fail to "live in the spirit" your "walk in the Spirit" (v25) may very well also be compromised, and you will without a doubt not be reflective of being the new creation you are meant to be.

Whether you define this failure as sin, or some other word that reflects your walking in the flesh verses the spirit, you are not reflecting the attributes of a new creature through Christ Jesus. Keep in mind that being saved does not preclude one from sinning as 1 John 2:1 shows " My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" What is this sin, but once again that one has deviated from living, and walking in the Spirit, and have now taken a different path back to the flesh, if but temporary. We must remember that we have not lost our advocate with God the Father! We still have Jesus! Alleluia!

We are not yet perfect, so fail in our walking in the Spirit. We get back up and continue to go forward, praying for that forgiveness in the weakness of our flesh and the strength to overcome. Just as the adulterous woman was told by our Lord and Savior "Go and sin no more." I will continue with the knowledge that I have a mediator in Christ Jesus, should my walk in the Spirit falter. Which I pray it never will, and in so doing be an Overcomer! What a glorious day that will be! Praying to see you all there!!!!!!

YBIC
C4E

Yes that is right !
Gal 5:18 if you are in the Spirit, you are doing the works. ( in the Spirit mind ) as it comes automatically. but if you are not and we are not doing things due to the Spirit, what are you ? i say you must repent, truly ! you must strive to enter the wide way or ? as there is only one way.
Some believe they need do nothing but just believe and push that you are on your way regard less, so why bother to struggle, they push, just go with the flow, sell drugs, kill etc as it does not matter at all, you are saved, hog wash i say. and then they have the hide to say the Mafia is bad or the RCC is bad, how is this so when you support evil actions your self's
I never said we are under the Law, but some try to push this 180 degree and make out i am supporting the Jews position. Slander is the word that comes to my mind, of a person pushing that. and if you look into their position they support evil actions and slander openly as they say they are going the Heaven regardless.

 

[Christ4Ever]

John 5:14
John 8:11,34
1 Corinthians 15:34
Are a few of the verses that tell us to not sin. There is also the verse that says you cannot serve two masters.

Would Jesus tell us to stop sinning, sin no more if he hadn't taken into the knowledge of us being imperfect? The bible says for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory. But does that mean we are stuck doing sins work?

And 1 John 3:8 also says that he that commith sin is of the devil.
than in verse 9 goes on to say Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
So i must believe that God requires us to cease sinning

I have a sense Quenton that you think what I have written somehow condones or allows for us to accept sinning? Quite the contrary. What I have written only acknowledges the fact that we continue to battle against this flesh. Though we live and walk in the Spirit, the fact remains that we are still in corrupted flesh, which we battle against continually. If we do sin, is He not loving to forgive us if we are to ask? Since you are already in 1 John, I'll reference this for you to see what I'm talking about, even though there are other verses throughout the NT which reflect this theme as well: 1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

As you can see that it is possible for one who is a brother to sin, yet it is also clear that this does not mean he has suddenly turned completely away from God and moved into the Devil's camp without any hope of salvation or never was a believer in the first place.

Brother, I am not so strong or bold, to say that "I will not sin, tomorrow, or ever again." I acknowledge my weakness, in the hope that He will be all the stronger in me that I may not sin. My hope also that my life and walk may be to His Glory, and not my shame. Yes, He does not want me to sin. I don't want me to sin. Does He know if I will sin again? Yes. Do I know if I will sin again? No.

If you are sure in being sinless Quenton, then give Glory to God for having so blessed you. If not, do not give up hope! There is still forgiveness to be had through our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.

YBIC
C4E

My prayer for us both Quenton, and all my other brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.
Lord thank You for Your abundant forgiveness for our many transgressions against You. Help us to have the same forgiving heart toward others as You have had for us. Cause us to see them through Your loving eyes and not our own. Make us more like you in every aspect! In your Holy name Lord Jesus, we ask your intercession in this. Amen

 

[Quenton]

I have a sense Quenton that you think what I have written somehow condones or allows for us to accept sinning? Quite the contrary. What I have written only acknowledges the fact that we continue to battle against this flesh. Though we live and walk in the Spirit, the fact remains that we are still in corrupted flesh, which we battle against continually. If we do sin, is He not loving to forgive us if we are to ask? Since you are already in 1 John, I'll reference this for you to see what I'm talking about, even though there are other verses throughout the NT which reflect this theme as well: 1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

As you can see that it is possible for one who is a brother to sin, yet it is also clear that this does not mean he has suddenly turned completely away from God and moved into the Devil's camp without any hope of salvation or never was a believer in the first place.

Brother, I am not so strong or bold, to say that "I will not sin, tomorrow, or ever again." I acknowledge my weakness, in the hope that He will be all the stronger in me that I may not sin. My hope also that my life and walk may be to His Glory, and not my shame. Yes, He does not want me to sin. I don't want me to sin. Does He know if I will sin again? Yes. Do I know if I will sin again? No.

If you are sure in being sinless Quenton, then give Glory to God for having so blessed you. If not, do not give up hope! There is still forgiveness to be had through our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.

YBIC
C4E

My prayer for us both Quenton, and all my other brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.
Lord thank You for Your abundant forgiveness for our many transgressions against You. Help us to have the same forgiving heart toward others as You have had for us. Cause us to see them through Your loving eyes and not our own. Make us more like you in every aspect! In your Holy name Lord Jesus, we ask your intercession in this. Amen

What are the sins that do not lead to death?