1 John 3:6-9 refers to continual practice of sin. Many bible translations use the term "practice sin"..to differentiate from occasional sin. All Christians can and do commit occasional sin, but they cannot continue to practice sin, because the regenerated spirit within them cannot permit it.
Unfortunately what you say above is an interpretation drawn from ambiguous modern translations of the Bible.
Older versions such as KJV say
"cannot sin". And this fits with the message of the gospel too.
But let's consider what the modern Bible versions seem to be saying.
You say it's differentiating between
"occasional" sin from
"practicing" sin (some Bible versions also use the term
"habitual" ).
So we need to ask
what determines "habitual",
"practicing" sin.
What extent of disobedience determines whether someone has exceeded God's forgiveness and is a lost soul intent on "habitual" "practicing" sin?
This is an important question as this "habitual" sin doctrine clearly determines whether we are saved or not. Anyone who
"practices" sin is
"of the devil", 1John 3:8 and has
"not known him" (Christ), 1John 3:6. So according to this view our behavior/lifestyle has an big part to play in determining whether we are saved or not.
I have asked this question often and always received an ambiguous answer in return.
But the fact is, there is
no scripture telling us what
"habitual",
"practicing" sin is. It's
unknown, because it's man's doctrine taken from ambiguous modern Bible versions.
Then another contradiction is how does
'habitual" sin fit in with the gospel, when the thief on the cross was saved by grace?
How did the thief on the cross get away with continual wrong doing till the day he died, and yet be saved, whilst the likes of us have to be wary in case we slip up once too often, exceeding our
unknown quota of forgiveness, and become
"habitual" wrong doers and thus unsaved?
Can you explain these obvious contradictions the modern Bible versions have with the gospel of grace?
But the church of God, the Body of Christ, does not have any unbelievers in it. If a person is an unbeliever, they are not within God's church, they are not within the Body of Christ.
.
There are many examples in scriptures that show there are so called
"brethren" who are in unbelief. This unbelief commonly takes the form of turning back to works of the law. Most of the churches in Rev 2&3 are like this.
Consider for example, the
church at Ephesus, Rev 2:4-7.
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast leftthy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
So, where has the church at Ephesus
fallen from?
What was their
first love/first works?
How can they
overcome?
They have
fallen from grace.
Gal 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Heb 12:15
"Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God"
What was the
first love/works of Christians?
It was
believing in Jesus.
Our works are to believe in Jesus, John 6:29.
How do we
overcome?
1John 5:4,5
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
And what's the result of falling from grace?
1Tim 5:12
"Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
These
"brethren" are non-believers who God calls upon to
repent.
Please consider Rom 8:10 again carefully... "But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness". It says the body is dead because of sin. So you still have sin. Even though God has condemned sin in the flesh.. our bodies still must die because we have the sin from the fall in it..God doesn't remove that. This is why even though in Christ you are sinless.. in the flesh you have sin... Unless your whole body, soul and spirit is perfect.. you cannot claim to have no sin. We only obtain this state in the future glorification of our mortal sin-ridden bodies into a spiritual perfect body. This is why in 1 John it says if you have no sin.. you deceive yourself. This is why we must confess our sins.. because we are still in the physical. Whether your soul has a wrong thought, emotion or intent.. or your body has sin .. if it is not you that has the sin.. then who is it? Is it not your soul, is it not your own body? Are you three different people in one person? lol...
You wrongly apply 1John 1:8 to believers, as I showed in an earlier post. Plus your use of this verse contradicts 1John 3:9 which says Christians
"cannot sin".
I agree, Rom 8:10 says our body is dead
because of sin. But you are not accepting that it is dead by faith. You even said above
"So you still have sin" and
"God doesn't remove that."
You're still saying we're unclean after we've been cleansed by the blood of Christ.
So what do scriptures say:
For he that is dead is freed from sin. Rom 6:7
If the Son therefore shall make you free (from sin),
ye shall be free indeed. John 8:36
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered (crucified)
for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind (Rom 6:6 our old man crucified with Christ ):
for he that hath suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6 )
hath ceased from sin; 1Pet 4:1
"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.'1John 3:6-9
You are correct that we await our future glorification.
But what you seem to miss is that this life is like the wilderness experience Israel faced.
Yes, that physical body is still there to be seen with with all its failings, weaknesses and imperfections.
So our choice is to
believe God's promise of salvation in Christ, and that our body is dead by faith hence our righteousness is
only in Christ and not in our deeds of the law,
OR we doubt His promise as we need to see enough physical evidence in behavior/lifestyle to satisfy us that we are righteous enough.
2Cor 5:16 describes christians as a
new creation and that we henceforth regard nobody according to the flesh.
But, it seems from what your saying in your quote above, that you don't see Christians as a new creation
But 1 John 5:16 is speaking not about the sin of unbelief, but about sins that do not lead to death. Please read the verse carefully. It even says NOT to pray for the sin of unbelief... so if brother does not mean believing brother.. why would it say to pray for an unbelieving person's sins not unto death? The only conclusion is that it is a believing brother who commits a sin (due to stumbling or perhaps minding the flesh), so we pray for them so they can receive life. It cannot refer to an unbeliever nor the sin of unbelief.. because we cannot pray anyone into salvation.. they must believe for themself.
1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
As
only past sin was dealt with at the cross (Rom 3:25 ), how is any subsequent "sins" dealt with, including those such as you understand from 1John 5:16,
"sins that do not lead to death" ?
Scriptures says that we've:
"ceased from sin", 1Pet 4:1
"cannot sin", 1John 3:9
We can't crucify Jesus again for these subsequent sins.
And wouldn't your claim that Christians still sin/are still unclean, contradict God's claim that we've been cleansed by Christ's blood and that Satan the accuser can not lay anything to the charge of those God has justified, Rom 8:33?
So can you show scripture which shows how subsequent sin are dealt with?
From what I understand from your posts you seem to suggest that Christ's sacrifice wasn't able to totally purge us of sin, Heb 10:2.
The sacrifices of goats/bulls was a yearly sacrifice because it was not able to take away sin. Surely Christ's sacrifice was perfect and able to totally purge us of sin?
Now it is interesting that you mention Revelation. You claim that the problem with most of the churches was the sin of unbelief and turning from grace to works. But have you actually read Revelation? One example is Thyatira:
Rev 2:20 But I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet and who teaches and leads my servants to practice immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.
Rev 2:21 I gave her time to repent, but she refused to repent of her immorality.
Here, Jesus is concerned with their immorality and idolatry. He tells them to repent .. are these not sins?
Revelation is a chapter in which the Lord focuses on the good and bad works of each church. For example, he says Rev 2:19 "“‘I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first." He lists works first, then love and faith.. so to Christ works is more important. We cannot say that works do not matter to the Lord..
Please re-read Rev 2:18-26 and consider what it says.
Note verses 20-22
"Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
These verses you referred to is speaking about Jezebel and those who follow her. This is referring to unbelief through following the doctrine of justification by works of the law.
The church at Thyatira erred in that they
put up with the corrupting influence of Jezebel's doctrine of works of the law.
And the
fornication it speaks of is with Hagar/the law, Gal 2:24.
1Cor 5 gives a very similar warning that we should not put up with any fornicator (those like Jezebel who preach works of the law) in the church. It says we should put away that wicked person, 1Cor 5:13
