What if you die tonight?

[Shaolin]

When the Apostles came across a man ( not from thier group ) yet preaching all the same . They went to stop him. But Jesus said , if he isnt against us he is for us.

This is where i understand , not all think like i do. That is ok. They are still with us. That is what is important , not the politics of a religion, but where the heart is.

Scripture states where your heart lies, there will be your treasure to.

Well, you can't even understand the text that you are referring too...that man was not preaching, he was casting demons out of another person. John told Jesus that they went to tell him to stop because he wasn't following with them, and that is when Jesus said that anyone that isn't against Him is for Him....

Mark 9:38-40
38 John said to him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us."
39 But Jesus said, "Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me.
40 For the one who is not against us is for us.

 

[Shaolin]

Right. All 2.6 billion of Christian’s have their own definition what all the Bible says, and all of you are right in your opinion.

Actually, there aren't that many Christians in the world, most of those claim to be but are not. And then you seem to be saying that you are not a Christian...that would make a lot of sense from your posts.

I thank GOD I Am not one of them.

Oh, I should have kept reading...so you are not a Christian.

Christians can’t agree on nothing.

Most people who claim to be Christians are never taught how to correctly read and interpret Scripture, and that is why there are so many false doctrines, false teachings, and false ideologies running rampant on the church landscape.

 

[PloughBoy]

Actually, there aren't that many Christians in the world, most of those claim to be but are not. And then you seem to be saying that you are not a Christian...that would make a lot of sense from your posts.



Oh, I should have kept reading...so you are not a Christian.



Most people who claim to be Christians are never taught how to correctly read and interpret Scripture, and that is why there are so many false doctrines, false teachings, and false ideologies running rampant on the church landscape.

Well I am not GOD I only go about what I read. And then decide whether I am going to build that house with the materials in it for “$257,000” and pay the $14,000 for the partial it will be built on. In 1994 or not. I read the numbers then I decide. And that is as far as I can go. I do not do the work of research or statistics maybe if I was trained in such matter and got a pay check. Now that is a different matter when my pay-check is base upon my work.

And I am a avid reader most likely my left side of the Brain who shell shock into a coma.

 

[Sue D.]

Actually, there aren't that many Christians in the world, most of those claim to be but are not. And then you seem to be saying that you are not a Christian...that would make a lot of sense from your posts.



Oh, I should have kept reading...so you are not a Christian.



Most people who claim to be Christians are never taught how to correctly read and interpret Scripture, and that is why there are so many false doctrines, false teachings, and false ideologies running rampant on the church landscape.

A person doesn't have to k ow hoe to read and interpret scripture correctly. 1 Corinthians 15: 1-3 says. "......by which also you are saved...that Christ died for our sins accord to the scripture and that He wàs buried and that He rose again on the third day according to the scripture....". And Romans 10 9-10
Belief in your heart and confessing into salvation. Accepting that God's Word is truth. That Jesus Christ is God's son.

 

[Sue D.]

Exactly...but some people are just bias defenders, not learning anything and not trying to learn the truths found in Scripture. All they want to do is protect what they have been taught in the past, not caring whether its actually right or not.

When a person has been reading Bible on their own and hearing it preached in a Bible teaching church , then chances are they're hearing the truth of God's Word.

 

[Shaolin]

A person doesn't have to k ow hoe to read and interpret scripture correctly.

Sorry, Sue, but that flies directly in the face of what Scripture clearly teaches. If you don't know how to read and interpret the Scriptures correctly, then you will lead yourself into deception and believe not what Scripture says, but whatever fills your own carnal mind. Scripture tells us that you are saved by believing the truth...NOT by believing whatever you want to believe...

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

If what you believe is not the Truth, then you don't get saved.

1 Corinthians 15: 1-3

says. "......by which also you are saved...that Christ died for our sins accord to the scripture and that He wàs buried and that He rose again on the third day according to the scripture....".

Are you a calvinist? Because calvinists do that very same thing that you just did...skip the part in your reference that lets you know when you have screwed up...

1 Corinthians 15:2
and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.

Guess what...what you probably heard called the gospel might not have been the gospel that Paul preached, particularly if you are a calvinist - then it is a FACT that what you believed was in vain, because what calvinism teaches is NOT the gospel of Christ. Again, if what you believe is not truth, then you are not saved, no matter how sincere your faith might be. God does not save people through believing false doctrine, He saves those who come to Him on HIS terms, not the nonsense claimed by so many people today.

And Romans 10 9-10
Belief in your heart and confessing into salvation.

Yes, indeed...except that what you think Romans 10:9-10 says is not actually what it says when it has been correctly and accurately translated from the Greek:

Romans 10:9-10*
9 because if you profess with your mouth that you have made Jesus Christ your Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, then you will be saved.
10 Because with the heart one believes into righteousness, and with the mouth he makes a covenant promise taking him into salvation.

The word some translations render as "confess" is the word homologeo, which can mean, depending upon its use and grammar, either assent to, consent, admit, concede, confess, acknowledge, profess, or to enter into a covenant accord through oath/promise; in this verse it takes on the meaning of 'to profess.' The phrase, "have made Jesus Christ your Lord" means that you acknowledge Him as your Lord - that is, as having the right to rule over your life because you have made Him your Lord and Master. It does not just mean the cursory "He is Lord" but goes well beyond that statement of truth, no person is saved without making Jesus their Lord and Master. In the way that homologeo (see note above) is utilized here by Paul, he implies the same as Peter does in I Pet. 3:21 - a covenant oath or promise to walk in obedience to God. Thus, we have translated it accordingly.

No one gets saved (or "keeps" their salvation) if they do not receive water baptism into Christ, because water baptism is a covenant oath sign signifying that you have made a covenant promise to walk in obedience to God in the covenant. Since salvation is a covenant gift, given ONLY to those who are in the New Covenant of God in Christ. Simply believing and confessing with the mouth is not what Paul says or intends, neither is it what Scripture teaches on how to get saved.

Accepting that God's Word is truth.

Kind of...that is the first step, but it is altogether different when we are talking about reading and understanding what Scripture says. God's Word is true, but if you believe that God is a giant chicken because Scripture tells you that He has wings and feathers, then you don't understand what Scripture says, and that means that you don't have TRUTH. Again, if what you believe is not God's truth, then you are not saved according to Scripture.

That Jesus Christ is God's son.

Yes, that Christ is God's Son according to the flesh, and Yahweh Himself as far as the Spirit within Christ. He is Yahweh in the flesh.

Blessings

 

[Shaolin]

When a person has been reading Bible on their own and hearing it preached in a Bible teaching church , then chances are they're hearing the truth of God's Word.

Maybe...not a definite. Apostate churches today preach out of the Bible, but they (like calvinists) twist the Scriptures to say what they want them to say, the way satan did to Jesus during His temptation.

 

[Sue D.]

Why bring Calvinism into the conversation, and there are really good , Bible teaching churches out there.

 

[Sue D.]

You're assuming that I'm a Calvinist based on 'whatever'. I'm not --okay?!

 

[Shaolin]

Why bring Calvinism into the conversation, and there are really good , Bible teaching churches out there.

I brought it up because what you said comes right out of calvinism. Granted, you may not be calvinist, but if you are not then you should not be holding calvinist views on things, because 99% of what it teaches is dead wrong. Salvation through faith alone is what calvinism teaches, it is not what Scripture teaches.

Blessings!

 

[Sue D.]

Oh really. Then what about Ephesians 2:8 and 9.
For by grace you are saved through faith and that not of yourself it is a gift of God not of works lest any man should boast. "

 

[PloughBoy]

Oh really. Then what about Ephesians 2:8 and 9.
For by grace you are saved through faith and that not of yourself it is a gift of God not of works lest any man should boast. "

Some people Sue, thinks God is dumb and stupid by some of the things they say. So puff up in pride like GOD needs a corrupted human being to carry out HIS Salvation to His chosen people. God ain’t no fool to trust anybody and depend on nobody to save HIS.
Your Salvation is a gift so is grace and faith.
If we depended on reading and Shaolin we all would be going to Hell. And yes Some may considered me an “Augustinian” now what! “Shaolin Temple”

 

[Rhema]

You're being so gracious
Being humble
You're having all correct knowledge and all. God is omniscient. That means that He alone has all the correct knowledge.

Your sarcasm is unbecoming, Sue.... But it's truly par for the course with all the Baptists I've ever met.

@Rhema -- well , you've found your way over to this thread.

Still wish to shut me up, I see.

I've been on this thread for quite awhile.

And what exactly am I supposed to be thanking you for.

I've shared... with reason, fact, and knowledge, not just opinion... so ... you're welcome.

God is omniscient.

"Omniscient" - another word that cannot be found in your "Word of God". Yet I can state that God knows all that is knowable. But not all things are knowable. So how could God know that which cannot be known?

(Sorry... forget I asked...)
.

You tend to believe that having lots of knowledge is the ultimate.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.​

(Hosea 4:6 KJV)​

Believe what you will. But I would rather God not reject me.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Jesus said that anyone that isn't against Him is for Him....

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
(Matthew 12:30 KJV)

 

[Rhema]

Oh, I should have kept reading...so you are not a Christian.

He has said so quite often, so we should let his yes be yes, since he is the only person on the planet with the truth.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

A person doesn't have to k ow hoe to read and interpret scripture correctly. 1 Corinthians 15: 1-3 says. "......by which also you are saved...that Christ died for our sins accord to the scripture and that He wàs buried and that He rose again on the third day according to the scripture....".

So one doesn't need to know how to read and interpret 1 Corinthians 15:1-3 correctly ??

Sue, you say things that truly perplex me.

Let's look at this statement by Paul :

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.​

(1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV)​

One can only conclude, then, that you think the Gospel preached by Paul was a gospel unto salvation. Yes? Yet you've also said that Jesus himself did not preach a gospel unto salvation. (I can find the quote if need be.)

So does this mean that Paul preached a different gospel than Jesus ?? (And I'm actually asking a question.)

Rhema

(Also, I think you quoted verse 4 as well.)

 

[Rhema]

He is Yahweh in the flesh.

Shaolin, that is so ambiguous it boarders on Sabellianism.

... just sayin'

(Remember Lori's meat robot ?? .... rhetorical of course...)

 

[Rhema]

Oh really. Then what about Ephesians 2:8 and 9.
For by grace you are saved through faith and that not of yourself it is a gift of God not of works lest any man should boast. "

Sue, hi. (Me again....)

I'd ask you to look closely at what @Shaolin actually wrote:

Salvation through faith

And yet compare with your scripture, noted above.

Salvation through faith? OR By grace you are saved?

Is one saved by faith? Or is one saved by Grace? (They are different.) And yet, this verse is one of the more interesting mis-translations that was done on purpose. Martin Luther, and the Protestants after him, purposefully omit a word from the Greek text. Let's read:

(Ephesians 2:8 TR) τη γαρ (FOR) χαριτι (BY GRACE) εστε (YE ARE) σεσωσμενοι (having been SAVED) δια (BY MEANS OF) της (THE) πιστεως (FAITH) και (AND) τουτο (THIS) ουκ (NOT) εξ (OF) υμων (YOU) θεου (OF GOD) το (THE) δωρον (GIFT).

For by grace are ye (having been) saved through THE faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:​

(Ephesians 2:8 KJV-fixed)​

One is not saved through an individual's "faith" ... as the text clearly reads that one is saved through THE FAITH.

There is a significant difference here, as well, THE FAITH being the summation of principles and practices as taught by a Faith).

One is saved by the Grace of God, through the Faith that one has in Jesus and His Teachings - God, being gracious to forgive our sins in accordance with what Jesus taught - (not Moses or the Law, or the Temple Priests, or the Pharisees...) and this is what Jesus taught:

After this manner therefore PRAY (a command): Our Father which art in heaven, ... forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.​

(Matthew 6:9-12 BCP)​

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:​

(Acts 13:38 KJV)​

Through Jesus, and not through any other Faith. Not the Faith preached by the Jew, Not the Faith preached by the Catholic, Not the Faith preached by the Baptist, but by the Faith that Jesus taught.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

now what! “Shaolin Temple”

How ungracious.

 

[Sue D.]

@Rhema what do you place your faith in for your salvation.

Some of God's attributes are His omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience.

You quoted part of the Lord's prayer. Lord forgive us our trespasses,. Nothing in that prayer about our repentance / being sorry for our sins.

The faith chapter / Hebrews 11. What faith is and lots of people who did lots of things to try through faith.

A person placing their faith in the sufficiency of the cross of Christ. The sufficiency of his blood.

How ungracious.