What is sin to a believer?

[regibassman57]

@Life,

I do not think people realize they cannot receive the Holy Ghost until they are delivered, cleansed and saved from their sins; which is through remission of sins eternally (Heb. 9:12).

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the “remission of sins,” and “you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

G859 (remission)
aphesis
From G863; freedom; (figuratively) pardon: - deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission.

If a person sins, they have not been pardoned from sin and set at liberty from their sins?

Act 3:19 Repent therefore, and be converted, that “your sins may be blotted out,” when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ (Joh 16:7), which before was preached unto you:

G1813 (blotted out)
exaleiphō
From G1537 and G218; to smear out, that is, obliterate (erase tears, figuratively pardon sin): - blot out, wipe away.

We are forgiven first, our sins are removed and we are set at liberty; “then” we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Sin and the Holy Ghost cannot merge in the same body. Sin is why God separated Himself from man (Isa. 59:2). This is why Jesus had to die and rise from the dead. In doing this Jesus took the victory over Satan who is sin; and condemned him (Rom. 8:3; Joh 16:11).

Jesus did not just condemn sin, but He condemned the penalty of sin first; which was death (Rom. 8:2). Jesus then rose from the dead and then took the victory over sin. The victory over sin could not happen if Jesus did not rise from the dead (1Cor. 15:14, 17).

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,
Sin is a work in God's mind that develops fruit through the wrong actions of sinners who do works that are against the law of God.

Sin is fruit that leaves the stain of Satan on the hearts of man in God's mind. Once Jesus came to atone for man's sins, God imputed and applied all the sins of man upon the fleshly body of Jesus Christ (Heb. 10: 5). When Jesus crucified the sin nature on the cross, He also crucified the law that imputed sin unto man. Therefore, where there is no law, there is no transgression/sin (Rom. 4:15). God does not recognize sin without a law telling a man they sin. This only happened when man was justified by the law (Rom. 3:19, 20).

In Jesus' death and resurrection He represented and became the scapegoat for every man in their fleshly body (Rom. 6:10, 11). Once Jesus died and rose taking the victory over sin, God imputed His righteous obedience unto every believer for Righteousness. God does not see believers as sinners neither can they sin. This is all by faith. God calls thing which are not naturally seen as if they were (Rom. 4:17).

This Righteousness imputed unto all believers is in the body of Jesus Christ where there is no sin (1Jo. 3:5, 9). The body of Christ is pure and without sin. If a person says they are in Christ and sin, they are not in the body of Christ according to their faith. The only way a believer can say they sin is if they look at themselves in the flesh and become deceived; instead of seeing themselves in the Spirit of God (Rom. 8:9; 8: 5).

Unfruitful works, in God's mind, develops no fruit at all through the wrong actions of a believer. As sin stains the heart of man, unfruitful works has no stain; unfruitful works are undefiled whereas sin defiles. God’s Grace presents non-imputation of sin unto a believer (Rom. 4:8; 2Cor. 5:19). God has imputed all man’s sins unto Jesus Christ. Though a believer does wrong works, God doesn’t see it as sin. Sin separates man from God. Unfruitful works has Grace attached to it and God only sees what Jesus has done for man through His Grace.

Every sin a man could or would commit in this world was placed upon Jesus Christ. This is the same with the punishment for sin. God imputed the punishment for sin that every man could or would commit; past, present and future unto Jesus Christ.

Man accepts and believes the punishment for sin has been taken away by faith, but they don’t believe the cause of the punishment has been taken away by faith. They were both address at the same event. The difference is, the punishment was fulfilled first, and the cause of the penalty was fulfilled second. The cause was more involved because Jesus had to endure the punishment and mental affliction of sin, then die and bring captivity captive and be obedient rising from the dead the third day. This was done for sin, not for the penalty.

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy,
Lets reconcile these scriptures:
This is the principle understanding of sin in God's mind. I believe if these scriptures are reconciled, you will see and understand the answer you are looking for.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, "I had not known sin, but by the law": for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the "strength of sin is the law."

Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that "knows to do good", and "does it not," to him "it is sin."

Rom 4:15 Because the law works wrath: for "where no law is," "there is no transgression."

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever commits "sin transgresses also the law": for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 7:6 But now "we are delivered from the law," that "being dead" wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever "the law said", it saith to them who are "under the law": that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (What does James 4:17 say?)

Rom 3:20 Therefore "by the deeds of the law" there shall "no flesh be justified (made righteous)" in his sight: for "by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Rom 6:14 For "sin shall not have dominion over you": for "you are not under the law", but under grace.

Hi there!

I didn't see this in my notifications at all....just found it today by scrolling through the thread....

I must be missing something about how these notifications work....which means I've probably missed other messages as well over the past several weeks....

But ok, thank you for listing these Scriptural passages which concern you.

Now, NOTHING in these passages (i.e., Rom. 7:7; 1 Cor. 15:56; Rom. 4:15; 1 Jn. 3:4; Rom. 7:6; 3:19-20; 6:14) states that it's ok to IGNORE Jas. 4:17.

Thus, Jas. 4:17 MUST still be true.

Do you agree that Jas. 4:17 is true?

blessings....

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy ,

James 4:17 says, If a person knows to do good and does not do it,it is sin.

Romams 7:7 teaches a man understands sin by the law.
1John 3:4 teaches sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 3:19 teaches what ever the law says, it says to them that are under/justified by the law.
Romans 3:20 teaches no man shall be justified by the law if they are in and justified by Jesus Christ (born again).
Romans 6:14 teaches sin shall not have dominion over a believer. (it cannot dictate to a believers actions) because he is not under/justified by the law.
Romans 7:6 teaches that same law, that taught Paul the knowledge of what sin is, the same law we are delivered from as far as justification and sin is concerned.
Romans 4:15 teaches the law angered God because of sin. Therefore God removed it; where there is no law, there is no transgression or sin.

If in God's mind there is no transgression/ sin ((sin is the transgression of the law); then in my mind where there is no law that can tell me I sin, and Jesus told me He took away all sin, I am not justified by the law, therefore I do not sin, I agree with God.

I don't agree with Job saying The Lord gives and the Lord takes away. Just because something is written based on what a man said does not make it what God said.

This tells us in James, and that complete era did not completely understand what the Spirit was teaching. Scripture teaches us that knowledge shall increase and knowledge has.

Peter says it well: Unless you understand the principle thing that Jesus has done with sin, you will not understand (2Pet. 3:16). I'm I purposefully speaking down or negative to you? No I am not. If you choose not to believe what Jesus did concerning sin once for all time, your position is set in your heart at this time.

You present scripture; I present scripture. Are you tired of this? Let's just believe what we believe. I will continue to write post and you can do the same.

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy ,

James 4:17 says, If a person knows to do good and does not do it,it is sin.

Romams 7:7 teaches a man understands sin by the law.
1John 3:4 teaches sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 3:19 teaches what ever the law says, it says to them that are under/justified by the law.
Romans 3:20 teaches no man shall be justified by the law if they are in and justified by Jesus Christ (born again).
Romans 6:14 teaches sin shall not have dominion over a believer. (it cannot dictate to a believers actions) because he is not under/justified by the law.
Romans 7:6 teaches that same law, that taught Paul the knowledge of what sin is, the same law we are delivered from as far as justification and sin is concerned.
Romans 4:15 teaches the law angered God because of sin. Therefore God removed it; where there is no law, there is no transgression or sin.

If in God's mind there is no transgression/ sin ((sin is the transgression of the law); then in my mind where there is no law that can tell me I sin, and Jesus told me He took away all sin, I am not justified by the law, therefore I do not sin, I agree with God.

I don't agree with Job saying The Lord gives and the Lord takes away. Just because something is written based on what a man said does not make it what God said.

This tells us in James, and that complete era did not completely understand what the Spirit was teaching. Scripture teaches us that knowledge shall increase and knowledge has.

Peter says it well: Unless you understand the principle thing that Jesus has done with sin, you will not understand (2Pet. 3:16). I'm I purposefully speaking down or negative to you? No I am not. If you choose not to believe what Jesus did concerning sin once for all time, your position is set in your heart at this time.

You present scripture; I present scripture. Are you tired of this? Let's just believe what we believe. I will continue to write post and you can do the same.

You wrote: "Therefore God removed it; where there is no law, there is no transgression or sin."

My response: GOD DID NOT REMOVE THE TORAH!

TORAH IS IN THE NEW COVENANT (Jer. 31:31-33; Heb. 8:10; 10:15-16).

WHY would you claim that God removed Torah?

You just contradicted Jer. 31 and Heb. 8 and Heb. 10!

Please stop ignoring Scriptures which contradict your position....

Thanks!

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,
When Jesus died for sins, He made man free “from sin.” It’s not possible for believers that are in Christ to even flirt with sin. “From” is the key word. This is just a reminder.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus “has made me free”“from” the law of “sin” AND “death.”

G575 (from)
apo
A primary particle; “off”, that is, away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literally or figuratively): - (X here-) after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for (-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-) on (-ce), since, with. In composition (as a prefix) it “usually denotes”: separation, departure, cessation, completion, reversal, etc.

Rom 6:18 Being then made “free from sin,” you became the servants of righteousness.

Rom 6:20 For when you were the servants of sin, “you were free from righteousness.”

Rom 6:22 But now being made “free from sin,” and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

ANY QUESTION PLEASE POST:

 

[Dave M]

@regibassman57 question for you,

so you are saying that if you brake one of the 10 commandments you are not sinning you are just doing wrong?? is that correct interpretation of what you are saying??

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave M,
That is correct. Let me clarify. Every believer in Christ that "so called sins," God sees it as "unfruitful works." These are wrong works that develop no Righteous Godly fruit/character in a Christian. In order for that type of Christian to develop fruit/character in Christ, they must repent in how they think and then repent from their unfruitful works/wrong doings.

If a Christian continues to do these "unfruitful works" and do not develop the required fruit/character of Christ, they will be taken out of the Kingdom of God and they will be cast into the Lake of Fire in the Day of Judgment. These individuals are known as tares in the body of Christ. It is only by God's Grace that they are able to remain in the body of Christ. God gives people time to repent through Grace.

 

[regibassman57]

@Life
I would like to briefly explain Galatians 3:11 for the viewers that may not understand what it means to be justified by the law.

Gal 3:11 But that “no man” is “justified by the law” in the sight of God, it isevident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Under the Mosaic Law Israel had to perform or work through sacrifices to atone for the sins they would commit in order to be made justified/innocent of their sins before God. Once Israel offered the sacrifices for the atonement of their sins, they would be declared Righteous before God and would be restored back unto His favor. This work was man’s responsibility.

In Christ, God would do away with this Law of Atonement; because Jesus would be the last sacrifice to atone for man’s sins forever in God’s sight (as it says, not man shall be justified). A man is no longer justified through the law by his works to be declared righteous. A man can only be declared righteous if he or she believes, by faith, that Jesus has come and did the work in taking away their sins. This is what Daniel speaks about.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, “to finish the transgression,” and “to make an end of sins,” and “to make reconciliation for iniquity,” and “to bring in everlasting righteousness,” and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and “to anoint the most Holy.”

G2643 (atonement)
katallagē
From G2644; exchange (figuratively adjustment), that is, restoration to (the divine) favor: - atonement, reconciliation (-ing).

New Covenant believers look only to Jesus Christ (the most Holy) through “faith” as the offered atonement for their sins. We believe that Jesus did the work to justify all men from their sins (causing them to be innocent) through faith. Jesus would make them Righteous once for all time without their efforts of work. Only Jesus could offer up this sacrifice and make atonement for their sins (Rom. 5:11).

Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

G3900 (offenses)
paraptōma
From G3895; a side slip (lapse or deviation), that is, (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression: - fall, fault, offence, sin, trespass.

G1347 (justification)
dikaiōsis
From G1344; acquittal (for Christ’s sake): - justification.;

Some people speak of this as the “Great Exchange” because God takes man’s sins and give them His Righteousness never to remember their sin again. For Israel this would happen once a year. However, with New Covenant believers in Christ, this happened once for all time. Jesus took our sins once and God will never see us sin or as sinners who are defiled. Israel would ask for forgiveness that they may be cleansed from their defilement. Believers in Christ can never be defiled with sin.

Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, “undefiled,” “separate from sinners,” and made higher than the heavens

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,
I would like to add to my post #189.

Galatians 3:11 teaches no man is justified by the law in God's sight, the just shall live by faith.

This is about confession of sins. Israel was required to confess their sins as part of their atonement before God. We as believer are not required to confess sins we do not have.

The first time a believer comes to Christ, they are required to confess their sins acknowledging they agree with God they are a sinner. God is not requiring them to confess individual sins because there are many known sins as well as unknown sins. Once this person confesses they are a sinner they are saved at that point from their sins (1Joh. 1:9: Rom. 10:9, 10).

From the day a person accepts Jesus as their savior, they no longer need to ask God for forgiveness for sins. Jesus has already forgiven and blotted out the sins in that person's life once for all time. If the believer desires to tell The Lord they are sorry for an unfruitful work they have committed, they can. This is a personal relationship we've entered into with God. God is not looking for words of forgiveness, but repentance from the heart through actions of obedience to His word.

1 John 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

God desires obedience from the heart before words. God saw Israel in words and not actions of obedience from the heart.

Matthew 15:8
This people draws near unto me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,
Finishing my explanation on Galatians 3:11:

Galatians 3:11 teaches no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, the just shall live by faith.

Just as no man will be justified or declared Righteous by the Law of Moses in the sight of God, they will neither be declared to have sinned by the Law of Moses. It was by the Law of Moses that Israel was told they sinned; but because Jesus Christ became the justifier of all men in the sight of God, the Mosaic Law has been taken out of the way for justification and condemnation.

Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that judges.
Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemns? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Christ has told us He has condemned the Law of sin and death on the cross (Rom. 8:2, 3). The only law that gave knowledge of sin and death was the Mosaic Law.

Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Only the Mosaic Law gave this knowledge. Where there is no law, there is no transgression (Rom. 4:15).

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in God's sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

As scripture teaches the Law of Moses is not sin, the law revealed sin to a person doing the wrong. This was the power that God gave the law. God has taken that power away from the Mosaic Law.

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength (power) of sin is the law.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the "Law" said, it saith to them who are "under/justified by the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

The Mosaic Law cannot tell a person they've sinned neither can it declare them Righteous; it has lost its power to do so through the justification of Jesus Christ.

Because Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses, the law can no longer tell a person they have sinned which is to condemn them.

 

[bibleguy]

@Life
I would like to briefly explain Galatians 3:11 for the viewers that may not understand what it means to be justified by the law.

Gal 3:11 But that “no man” is “justified by the law” in the sight of God, it isevident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Under the Mosaic Law Israel had to perform or work through sacrifices to atone for the sins they would commit in order to be made justified/innocent of their sins before God. Once Israel offered the sacrifices for the atonement of their sins, they would be declared Righteous before God and would be restored back unto His favor. This work was man’s responsibility.

In Christ, God would do away with this Law of Atonement; because Jesus would be the last sacrifice to atone for man’s sins forever in God’s sight (as it says, not man shall be justified). A man is no longer justified through the law by his works to be declared righteous. A man can only be declared righteous if he or she believes, by faith, that Jesus has come and did the work in taking away their sins. This is what Daniel speaks about.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, “to finish the transgression,” and “to make an end of sins,” and “to make reconciliation for iniquity,” and “to bring in everlasting righteousness,” and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and “to anoint the most Holy.”

G2643 (atonement)
katallagē
From G2644; exchange (figuratively adjustment), that is, restoration to (the divine) favor: - atonement, reconciliation (-ing).

New Covenant believers look only to Jesus Christ (the most Holy) through “faith” as the offered atonement for their sins. We believe that Jesus did the work to justify all men from their sins (causing them to be innocent) through faith. Jesus would make them Righteous once for all time without their efforts of work. Only Jesus could offer up this sacrifice and make atonement for their sins (Rom. 5:11).

Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

G3900 (offenses)
paraptōma
From G3895; a side slip (lapse or deviation), that is, (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression: - fall, fault, offence, sin, trespass.

G1347 (justification)
dikaiōsis
From G1344; acquittal (for Christ’s sake): - justification.;

Some people speak of this as the “Great Exchange” because God takes man’s sins and give them His Righteousness never to remember their sin again. For Israel this would happen once a year. However, with New Covenant believers in Christ, this happened once for all time. Jesus took our sins once and God will never see us sin or as sinners who are defiled. Israel would ask for forgiveness that they may be cleansed from their defilement. Believers in Christ can never be defiled with sin.

Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, “undefiled,” “separate from sinners,” and made higher than the heavens

Howdy!

You've taken Gal. 3:11 out of context. You've ignored other Scriptural passages which must modify your viewpoint so as to bring it into conformity with ALL Scripture.

Paul critiques FAITHLESS justification by law (Gal.3 :11).

Paul affirms FAITHFUL justification by law (Rom. 2:13).

Here's more proof:

1. We are justified by law (Rom. 2:13) AND by faith (Rom. 5:1).
2. The law says we should listen to the Prophet (Dt. 18).
3. Jesus is the Prophet (Ac. 3:22).
4. Jesus says we are justified by our words (Mt. 12:37).
5. We should speak the words of the Psalms (Eph. 5:19).
6. The Psalms affirm Torah (Ps. 1; Ps. 19; Ps. 119; etc...)

CONCLUSION: We are justified by law as we faithfully speak and obey the words of Torah.

APPLICATION: Please harmonize ALL of the Biblical data....lest you continue in your unbiblical viewpoint.

Remember?

Paul REPEATEDLY shows that we should CONTINUE to obey Torah:

1. Paul obeyed Torah (Ac. 21). We should imitate Paul (1 Cor. 11:1; Php. 4:9).
2. Paul said we should keep God's commands (1 Cor. 7:19) which, of course, are contained in the written Torah of Moses (1 Ki. 2:3).
3. Paul said he believes (not opposes!) everything in Torah (Ac. 24:14).
4. Paul affirms the New Covenant (1 Cor. 11:25) in which Torah is written upon our hearts (not abolished!) [Jer. 31:31-33; Heb. 8:10; 10:15-16].
5. Paul says we should walk by faith (citing "emunah" in Hab. 2:4). What is this way of "emunah" by which Paul says we should live? TORAH! (see "emunah" in Ps. 119:30,86,138).

blessings....

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,

This is talking about justification from sin, which has to do with the curse under the Law of Moses.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the “works of the law are under the curse”: for it is written, Cursed is every one that “continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

Under the Mosaic Law if a person did not continue keeping the Law of Moses they would sin and be under the curse.

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that does them shall live in them.

Gal 3:13 “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law,” being made a curse for us: for it is written, “Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree”:

Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross becoming the curse for all man. Jesus was cursed because He took our sins.

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self "bare our sins" in “his own body on the tree,” that "we, being dead to sins," should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes you were "healed."

Healed from sin!

2Co 5:21 For “God hath made Jesus to be sin for us,” who knew no sin; “that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy,

This is talking about justification from sin, which has to do with the curse under the Law of Moses.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the “works of the law are under the curse”: for it is written, Cursed is every one that “continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

Under the Mosaic Law if a person did not continue keeping the Law of Moses they would sin and be under the curse.

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that does them shall live in them.

Gal 3:13 “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law,” being made a curse for us: for it is written, “Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree”:

Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross becoming the curse for all man. Jesus was cursed because He took our sins.

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self "bare our sins" in “his own body on the tree,” that "we, being dead to sins," should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes you were "healed."

Healed from sin!

2Co 5:21 For “God hath made Jesus to be sin for us,” who knew no sin; “that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

You wrote: "Under the Mosaic Law if a person did not continue keeping the Law of Moses they would sin and be under the curse."

My response: Wrong. If a person occasionally sinned (i.e., occasionally did NOT continue keeping the Law of Moses), but repented, then they would be forgiven and NOT be under the curse.

And the curse is STILL IN FORCE (Gal. 3:10; Dt. 30:19).

Thus the TORAH is still in force!

Thus, the blessing is ALSO still in force! (Dt. 30:19).

That's WHY Paul applies Dt. 30:14 to YOU in Rom. 10:8.

Dt. 30:14 confirms we should faithfully obey Torah from the HEART.

Paul applies this to YOU (Rom. 10:8).

Please stop opposing Scripture.

Thanks!

blessings....

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,

You said I wrote:
"Under the Mosaic Law if a person did not continue keeping the Law of Moses they would sin and be under the curse."

You wrote:
My response: Wrong. If a person occasionally sinned (i.e., occasionally did NOT continue keeping the Law of Moses), but repented, then they would be forgiven and NOT be under the curse.

This is what scripture says:

Deu 27:15 Cursed be the man that makes “any” graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and puts it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.

This is not occasionally, this is one time.

Deu 27:16 Cursed be he that sets light by his father or his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This is not occasionally, this is one time.

Deu 27:17 Cursed be he that removes his neighbor's landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This is not occasionally, this is one time.

Deu 27:18 Cursed be he that makes the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This is not occasionally, this is one time.

Deu 27:19 Cursed be he that perverts the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This is not occasionally, this is one time.

Scripture teaches what I said at the beginning.

This continues to Deuteronomy 27:25; then says:

Deu 27:26 Cursed be he that confirms not “all the words of this law to do them.” And all the people shall say, Amen.

Israel went into bondage for a reason many times. Israel is still scattered throughout the world because of their disobedience. This was because of the curse of their sinning.

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy,

You said I wrote:
"Under the Mosaic Law if a person did not continue keeping the Law of Moses they would sin and be under the curse."

You wrote:
My response: Wrong. If a person occasionally sinned (i.e., occasionally did NOT continue keeping the Law of Moses), but repented, then they would be forgiven and NOT be under the curse.

This is what scripture says:

Deu 27:15 Cursed be the man that makes “any” graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and puts it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.

This is not occasionally, this is one time.

Deu 27:16 Cursed be he that sets light by his father or his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This is not occasionally, this is one time.

Deu 27:17 Cursed be he that removes his neighbor's landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This is not occasionally, this is one time.

Deu 27:18 Cursed be he that makes the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This is not occasionally, this is one time.

Deu 27:19 Cursed be he that perverts the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This is not occasionally, this is one time.

Scripture teaches what I said at the beginning.

This continues to Deuteronomy 27:25; then says:

Deu 27:26 Cursed be he that confirms not “all the words of this law to do them.” And all the people shall say, Amen.

Israel went into bondage for a reason many times. Israel is still scattered throughout the world because of their disobedience. This was because of the curse of their sinning.

Of course SOME Torah laws incur a curse after "one time"....but not all!

Thus, my point stands firm.

After all, even David violated a few Torah laws at times....but was David under God's curse? Of course not! David was RIGHTEOUS (2 Sa. 22:21-22), even though he sometimes sinned (Ps. 51:2).

Let's get back to the Bible....ALL the Bible (2 Ti. 3:16)...not just the parts you like.

blessings....

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,
Israel went into captivity many times. Israel is in captivity even until this day and all has not retured because they are still in mental spiritual bondage.

Israel became a Nation in 1948 and many Jews started back to their Homeland. But God has not returned all Israel back from their captivity. However, it will happen in time.

The reason Israel went into bondage is because of the curse; they continue to sin. Did each and every person in Israel continue to sin? No, but because of what the Law of Moses sentenced Israel as a whole to, the Nation of Israel went into bondage and were blinded. Why, because they did not continue in the Law of Moses.

Deu 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shall call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

Deu 30:2 And shall return unto the LORD thy God, and shall obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

Deu 30:3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

Deu 30:4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

Deu 30:5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shall possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy,
Israel went into captivity many times. Israel is in captivity even until this day and all has not retured because they are still in mental spiritual bondage.

Israel became a Nation in 1948 and many Jews started back to their Homeland. But God has not returned all Israel back from their captivity. However, it will happen in time.

The reason Israel went into bondage is because of the curse; they continue to sin. Did each and every person in Israel continue to sin? No, but because of what the Law of Moses sentenced Israel as a whole to, the Nation of Israel went into bondage and were blinded. Why, because they did not continue in the Law of Moses.

Deu 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shall call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

Deu 30:2 And shall return unto the LORD thy God, and shall obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

Deu 30:3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

Deu 30:4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

Deu 30:5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shall possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

BEAUTIFUL!

NOW KEEP READING!

When we fully return to the land, we will again obey 100% ALL (Heb. "kol", Dt. 30:8) TORAH!

Thus Torah is not abolished for us!

We WILL again obey ALL TORAH! (Dt. 30:1-8)

Agreed?

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,
Nice hearing from you. Israel will come to the place when they will believe Jesus is Lord as a Nation. I agree with that. That has nothing to do with the Gentiles believers.

Let me clarify. The Gentiles believers will not start animal sacrifices and all the other ceremonial laws; Israel will.

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy,
Nice hearing from you. Israel will come to the place when they will believe Jesus is Lord as a Nation. I agree with that. That has nothing to do with the Gentiles believers.

Let me clarify. The Gentiles believers will not start animal sacrifices and all the other ceremonial laws; Israel will.

GOTCHA!

Gentiles believers are ISRAELITES!

PROOF #1

1. Gentile believers partake in the New Covenant.
2. The New Covenant is only between YHVH and ISRAEL (Jer. 31:31-33).
3. Gentile believers are accepted as ISRAELITES (from 1 and 2).


PROOF #2

1. The prophecy of Hosea is given to ISRAEL (Hos. 1:10).
2. The prophecy of Hosea applies to GENTILE believers (Rom. 9:24-26).
3. Gentile believers are ISRAELITES (from 1 and 2).


PROOF #3

1. Gentile believers are no longer excluded from Israel or the covenants (Eph. 2:11-12).
2. Gentile believers are fellow ISRAELITES in covenant with God (from 1).


PROOF #4

1. Dt. 30:1-8 refers to the future ISRAELITE inheritance in the LAND.
2. Gentile believers share in this promised inheritance (Gal. 3:29).
3. Gentile believers are ISRAELITES who share in the promised land-inheritance (from 1 and 2).


PROOF #5

1. Gentiles are fellow heirs and members of the ISRAELITE body to whom the inheritance is given (Eph. 3:6).



There are dozens more proofs....

But suffice to say, your theology is woefully mistaken....because you don't even realize that YOU are an ISRAELITE!

If you don't know who you are (ISRAEL!), then you won't know how you should live (TORAH! Mal. 4:4).

You REALLY need to get a grip on the COVENANTS (plural! Eph. 2) in which you participate.

CONCLUSION: ISRAELITES will do sacrifices again (Dt. 30:8), thus that includes YOU GENTILE BELIEVERS TOO!

blessings...