What is sin to a believer?

[regibassman57]

@Dave,
Why would you deflect to me and not address what scripture said?
I don't think most people understands this is a "FAITH" walk. Could sin actually be placed on a goat or on Jesus and be taken away?

If the information above is true, why not accept it.
What scriptures are incorrect?
They are either true of false.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave,

You told me, I really have to learn what it means to practice sin as a lifestyle and to stumble in sin.

Why would I go backward? Why would I reject freedom “from sin” and mentally go back into bondage? Especially when I’m free in my mind understanding that God is not imputing sin unto me. I am not in my mind believing God could hold me accountable for something He’s has taken away. God has acquitted me, as a man, for the act of what “HE,” not me, determined to be sin. Again, this is a faith walk.

The Atonement for sin was a “symbolic ritual” established by God, for man, to remove the sins of man’s iniquities. It was established for man that he might seek God’s will, through faith, for the cleansing of his sins in humility. Confessing his sins is his acknowledgment that he has committed a sinful act according to God's standards.

The Atonement was a way for physical man to see immediate spiritual results for his sins. Atonement is an act of presentation; it was the showing of Israel’s faith. The act of purification was for a person to be able to see an act taking place on his behalf for his wrong doings which was strictly symbolic.

Atonement was a spiritual or mental release for man; “if they believed by faith,” that God has taken away their sins which also takes the mental weight of guilt away from their minds.

The sacrifices for sins were all symbolizations for the people and for God. There is no doubt that sins cannot be carried away like a burden, and taken off the shoulder of one person to be laid on another. The ceremony of Israel’s Atonement was a symbolic presentation, to impress upon men a certain idea, and to induce them to repent.

 

[Dave M]

Yes, he can sin

• 1 John 1:8-10
  • "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (NASB)
  • "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (NKJV)

No, he cannot sin

• 1 John 3:9,
  • "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (NASB)
  • "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." (NKJV)
• 1 John 5:18,
  • "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him." (NASB)
  • "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him." (NKJV)

Is John contradicting himself when he says in one verse that if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves (1 John 1:8), and yet he also says the one who is a Christian cannot sin (1 John 3:9; 5:18 NKJV)? There

 

[Dave M]

Analysis

I have bolded the words above on which I would like to focus. In 1 John 3:9, the Greek word ποιεῖ (poiei) means to do, to practice. The V3SPAI is shorthand for Verb, 3rd Person Singular, Present, Active, Indicative. Likewise, VPAN means, Verb, Present, Active, Indicative.

ποιέωa: a marker of an agent relation with a numerable event—‘to do, to perform, to practice, to make.’ διδάσκων καὶ πορείαν ποιούμενος εἰς Ιεροσόλυμα ‘teaching as he made a journey to Jerusalem’ Lk 13:22; οἱ μαθηταὶ Ἰωάννου νηστεύουσιν πυκνὰ καὶ δεήσεις ποιοῦνται ‘John’s disciples often fast and pray’ Lk 5:33; τῷ σῷ ὀνόματι δυνάμεις πολλὰς ἐποιήσαμεν ‘in your name we did many miracles’ Mt 7:22; πίστει πεποίηκεν τὸ πάσχα ‘by faith he performed the Passover’ Heb 11:28.3

So we see that the word means to do, to practice. But that isn't all. In Greek, like English, there are verb tenses: past, present, future. But in Greek, the present tense is not quite the same as the English. Instead, it is more a continuous action.

Present tense: "The verb tense where the writer portrays an action in process or a state of being with no assessment of the action’s completion."4

Finally, in 1 John 3:9 we see an infinitive form of a verb. The infinitive is "to go," "to see," "to eat," etc. This is important.

"And he cannot sin (και οὐ δυναται ἁμαρτανειν [kai ou dunatai hamartanein]). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means “and he cannot commit sin” as if it were και οὐ δυναται ἁμαρτειν [kai ou dunatai hamartein] or ἁμαρτησαι [hamartēsai] (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive ἁμαρτανειν [hamartanein] can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,” as is true of ἁμαρτανει [hamartanei] in verse 8 and ἁμαρτανων [hamartanōn] in verse 6.5

Conclusion

There is no contradiction. What is happening is that John is saying that the one who is born again does not habitually abide in sin. He may fall into it, but he does not practice it as a lifestyle. The nuances of the Greek language are not carried over to the English, but when we understand what is happening, we then see there is no problem.
Finally, any Christian who would say that he does not sin anymore fails to agree with 1 John 1:8 which says, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." He would then be self-deceived.

Article source: Can a true Christian sin or not? | CARM.org

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave,
The information I've presented is for the readers to determine what they will believe.
Though I'm still practicing restraint, I cannot continue to go back and forth debating the subject; though I will continue to put information out there.

When Jesus came they didn't believe Him, so I have not problem people not believing the things i've been writting. I've covered the same scriptures and the Greek interpetations you have written above, and it would be ignorant (on my part) to speak on it again with you. I would suggest you read what i've already posted.

If you do not believe that you have been acquitted of sin that okay, but what does it have to do with me saying I do not sin, but I do commit unfruitful works? I haven't committed an unfruitful work or sin to you, so what's the problem? You are acting as if you're my judge. My faith is between me and God; though I do know you understand that.

If we continue to chat, lets keep it simple. Continue to ask question about what you do not understand.

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,
Lets reconcile these scriptures:
This is the principle understanding of sin in God's mind. I believe if these scriptures are reconciled, you will see and understand the answer you are looking for.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, "I had not known sin, but by the law": for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the "strength of sin is the law."

Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that "knows to do good", and "does it not," to him "it is sin."

Rom 4:15 Because the law works wrath: for "where no law is," "there is no transgression."

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever commits "sin transgresses also the law": for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 7:6 But now "we are delivered from the law," that "being dead" wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever "the law said", it saith to them who are "under the law": that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (What does James 4:17 say?)

Rom 3:20 Therefore "by the deeds of the law" there shall "no flesh be justified (made righteous)" in his sight: for "by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Rom 6:14 For "sin shall not have dominion over you": for "you are not under the law", but under grace.

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy,
I have no problem with wisdom that is credible, but you are still mentally and spiritually under/justifying yourself by the Law of Moses; I do not trust your information. The reason I’m continually chatting with you, is I like to hear many different sides of beliefs. I’ve done it with Mormons, Jehovah Witness, Black Muslims, and Baptists, Faith Movement, Pentecostal and now you. You are the only belief that primarily holds to the Old Covenant Torah Law. I think it’s interesting. But if you don’t believe what Jesus has fully done, which is more than forgiving sins, I see you as wise in this world; and you have great wisdom, but it's not the wisdom of Jesus Christ.

1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? (God is not talking about Isaac Newton)

1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

The Jews, as a whole, did not believe what Jesus came to finish before and after the work of sin was finished. What we are discussing is nothing new. And the opposition of our belief is the norm. As someone said, there is one judge. I agree.

Hi! You wrote: "I do not trust your information."

My response: The BIBLE is my information.

Thus, you don't trust James 4:17.

Here's the proof:

1. Regibassman57 sometimes does wrong [confessed by regibassman57]
2. Wrong-doing is sin (Jas. 4:17).
3. Regibassman57 sometimes sins (from 1 and 2).
4. Regibassman57 claims he does NOT sin when he sometimes does wrong.

There it is! You have opposed James 4:17.

So, I'd say it's YOU whose information should not be trusted.

Why? Because it's YOU who oppose Scripture (e.g., Jas. 4:17) because it does not fit into your preferred theological viewpoint.

I believe we should include ALL Scripture in our viewpoint.

You clearly disagree.

Please repent!

Thanks....

 

[bibleguy]

@bibleguy,
I have no problem with wisdom that is credible, but you are still mentally and spiritually under/justifying yourself by the Law of Moses; I do not trust your information. The reason I’m continually chatting with you, is I like to hear many different sides of beliefs. I’ve done it with Mormons, Jehovah Witness, Black Muslims, and Baptists, Faith Movement, Pentecostal and now you. You are the only belief that primarily holds to the Old Covenant Torah Law. I think it’s interesting. But if you don’t believe what Jesus has fully done, which is more than forgiving sins, I see you as wise in this world; and you have great wisdom, but it's not the wisdom of Jesus Christ.

1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? (God is not talking about Isaac Newton)

1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

The Jews, as a whole, did not believe what Jesus came to finish before and after the work of sin was finished. What we are discussing is nothing new. And the opposition of our belief is the norm. As someone said, there is one judge. I agree.

But do you ACCEPT mathematical calculus (as developed by Newton) or not?

If YES, then you ACCEPT the logical foundations upon which it is based.

And then it follows that you can not criticize me for using those same logical (and reasonable!) foundations to criticize your contradictory theological viewpoint.

blessings...

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,
The answer to James 4:17 is in the post above. That's why I posted it. I've addressed your response for me to deal with it.

I've ask you previously to give me scriptures that teach contrary to what scripture plainly teaches.
Jesus died for our sins and has taken sin away.
Jesus crucified sin on the cross.
Jesus blotted out our sins.
Jesus condemned sins.
Jesus cleansed us from our sins.
Jesus circumcised our sins of the flesh in the body.
Jesus sanctified us from sins once for all.
Jesus justified us from sins.
I'll start with these. Find me scriptures that teach Jesus cancelled the penalty of sin but did not cancel these; though the reason He came to earth was to die for sin.

1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:4
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

A believer cannot be dead to sin, as scripture teach (Rom. 6:1,2), and alive to sin.
We are either alive in Christ and dead to sins or we are alive to sins and dead to Christ.

Romans 6:10
For in that he died, he died unto sin once:but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,
The reason you are not accepting my explanation regarding James 4:17 is because you appear not to understand what Jesus has done concerning sin. You are looking at what James said, above what Christ has done and said. Job said, The Lord gives and The Lord takes away. Maybe in his time he thought that way, or it was a figure of speech, but I do not see The Lord giving and taking away.

I know sin is the transgression of the law. This continued to be the Jews understanding years after Jesus resurrection. If a believer was under the law, the law would judge that believer and impute or conclude them to have sinned. This is what Romans 3:19 teaches. Whatever the law says, it says to them that are under the law that they become guilty before God. After Christ's death and resurrection there is no sin and no guilt for those in Christ Jesus. Not because believers do not error, but only because God is not concluding believers to have sinned. The law cannot impute sin to a believer because we are not under the law.

The anger of God was kindled because of sin (Rom. 4:15), but where there is no law, God chooses not to impute transgressions/sins unto man in His mind. Notice I said in "His Mind." The only thing that matters is how God thinks and what He says concerning a matter.

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,

Ephesians 2:8, 9
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Why do we as believers ignore what Jesus has done for us and reject His Gift? We accept Jesus paid the price of the penalty for sin, but we reject the gift; the freedom from the penalty of sin is not the gift! What is the "GIFT?"

Ephesians 2:4, 5
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we “were dead in sins," has quickened us (made us alive) together with Christ, (by grace you are saved) (Rom. 6:11, 12)

Greek definition of "saved":
G4982 σώζω [SW/ZW] {sṓzō} \sode'-zo\
from a primary σῶς [SW=S] {sōs} (contraction for obsolete σάος [SA/OS] {sáos}, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively):--heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

Saved from what? We are saved through the Mercy of God by Grace from sin. We "WERE" dead in sins; are we now made alive from sin yet still sin; after Jesus has saved us from sin?

1Co 15:14
And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Our preaching that Jesus has come into the world to save men from sin is in vain (1Co. 15:3).

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; you are yet in your sins.
Everyone that believes they sin are yet in their sins.

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

What is the washing of regeneration? "The rebirth"
We've been washed from the sins of the old nature, by being born again into the Body of Christ, the new nature (Rom. 11:24; Col. 1:13). There are no sins in Christ; in the new nature (1Joh. 3:5). This must be understood by faith.

Greek definition of "regeneration":
G3824 παλιγγενεσία [PALIGGENESI/A] {palingenesía} \pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah\
from 3825 and 1078; (spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), i.e. (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specially, Messianic restoration:--regeneration.

We as believers must do as God has taught us. We must call those things which we know are not literal as though they were (Rom. 4:17). Abraham was called a Father of many nations, but he had no sons. His wife was barren. God taught Abraham to call those things which are not as though they were because it was so in God’s mind (Rom. 3:4).

Confession for sins is part of the work for the atonement of sins. No man can do any works for the atonement of sins in Jesus Christ. Under the Mosaic Law it was Israel's responsibility to work for their atonement of sins. Once they did this, they were justified and pardoned of their sins in God's eyes. However, under the New Covenant in Christ, no believer is justified or pardoned from sins by any work they may do according to the ritual under the Mosaic Law; the just shall live by faith of what Jesus has already done for sins.

Jesus Christ died unto sin once; believers also die unto sins one. This is done when they initially confess their sin unto Jesus Christ (once), agreeing with Him they are a sinner (1Joh. 1:9; Rom. 10:9, 10). They are then forgiven of their sins forever.

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,

Sin is a work. A person that commits sins does a work in the flesh.

Jesus dying on the cross did a work in the flesh by taking every man's sins upon Himself once for all time.

Man's work in the flesh defiled his heart and condemned him to death.

The works of Jesus Christ healed the hearts of all believers and condemned sin and death by representing all believers in His fleshly body.

If a Christian believes they work the works of sin, after Jesus Christ has already worked it for them, they do not have the mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

The mind of Christ does not believe that Jesus did not atone for sins and sanctify the believer’s heart once for all time.

The blood work of bulls and goats atoned for sins once a year.

The blood work of Jesus Christ atoned for sins once for all time.

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This says, "DOES NOT" sin.
This says, He "CANNOT" sin.

This does not say, "DOES NOT PRACTICE" sin.
This does not say, "CANNOT PRACTICE" sin.

G4160 ποιέω [POIE/W] {poiéō} \poy-eh'-o\
apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct):--abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do(-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + transgress the law, work, yield. Compare 4238.

G4238 πράσσω [PRA/SSW] {prássō} \pras'-so\
a primary verb; to "practise", i.e. perform repeatedly or habitually (thus differing from 4160, which properly refers to a single act); by implication, to execute, accomplish, etc.; specially, to collect (dues), fare (personally):--commit, deeds, do, exact, keep, require, use arts.
See Greek 4160.

 

[Dave M]

Can a true Christian sin or not? Can a true Christian sin or not?

Yes, he can sin

• 1 John 1:8-10
  • "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (NASB)
  • "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (NKJV)

No, he cannot sin

• 1 John 3:9,
  • "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (NASB)
  • "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." (NKJV)
• 1 John 5:18,
  • "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him." (NASB)
  • "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him." (NKJV)

Is John contradicting himself when he says in one verse that if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves (1 John 1:8), and yet he also says the one who is a Christian cannot sin (1 John 3:9; 5:18 NKJV)? There is no contradiction, but to see why we will need to look at the original Greek language.


Analysis

I have bolded the words above on which I would like to focus. In 1 John 3:9, the Greek word ποιεῖ (poiei) means to do, to practice. The V3SPAI is shorthand for Verb, 3rd Person Singular, Present, Active, Indicative. Likewise, VPAN means, Verb, Present, Active, Indicative.

ποιέωa: a marker of an agent relation with a numerable event—‘to do, to perform, to practice, to make.’ διδάσκων καὶ πορείαν ποιούμενος εἰς Ιεροσόλυμα ‘teaching as he made a journey to Jerusalem’ Lk 13:22; οἱ μαθηταὶ Ἰωάννου νηστεύουσιν πυκνὰ καὶ δεήσεις ποιοῦνται ‘John’s disciples often fast and pray’ Lk 5:33; τῷ σῷ ὀνόματι δυνάμεις πολλὰς ἐποιήσαμεν ‘in your name we did many miracles’ Mt 7:22; πίστει πεποίηκεν τὸ πάσχα ‘by faith he performed the Passover’ Heb 11:28.3

So we see that the word means to do, to practice. But that isn't all. In Greek, like English, there are verb tenses: past, present, future. But in Greek, the present tense is not quite the same as the English. Instead, it is more a continuous action.

Present tense: "The verb tense where the writer portrays an action in process or a state of being with no assessment of the action’s completion."4

Finally, in 1 John 3:9 we see an infinitive form of a verb. The infinitive is "to go," "to see," "to eat," etc. This is important.

"And he cannot sin (και οὐ δυναται ἁμαρτανειν [kai ou dunatai hamartanein]). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means “and he cannot commit sin” as if it were και οὐ δυναται ἁμαρτειν [kai ou dunatai hamartein] or ἁμαρτησαι [hamartēsai] (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive ἁμαρτανειν [hamartanein] can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,” as is true of ἁμαρτανει [hamartanei] in verse 8 and ἁμαρτανων [hamartanōn] in verse 6.5

Conclusion

There is no contradiction. What is happening is that John is saying that the one who is born again does not habitually abide in sin. He may fall into it, but he does not practice it as a lifestyle. The nuances of the Greek language are not carried over to the English, but when we understand what is happening, we then see there is no problem.
Finally, any Christian who would say that he does not sin anymore fails to agree with 1 John 1:8 which says, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." He would then be self-deceived.

Article source: Can a true Christian sin or not? | CARM.org

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave,
You didn't write this. This writting is wrong.

 

[Dave M]

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This says, "DOES NOT" sin.
This says, He "CANNOT" sin.

This does not say, "DOES NOT PRACTICE" sin.
This does not say, "CANNOT PRACTICE" sin.

Actually yes it does you cant just use on version

1 John 3:9,

• "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (NASB)
• "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." (NKJV)

New International Version
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

New Living Translation
Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God.

English Standard Version
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Berean Study Bible
Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Berean Literal Bible
Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God.

New American Standard Bible
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

King James Bible
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Christian Standard Bible
Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because his seed remains in him; he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.

Contemporary English Version
God's children cannot keep on being sinful. His life-giving power lives in them and makes them his children, so they cannot keep on sinning.

Good News Translation
Those who are children of God do not continue to sin, for God's very nature is in them; and because God is their Father, they cannot continue to sin.

NET Bible


Everyone who has been fathered by God does not practice sin, because God's seed resides in him, and thus he is not able to sin, because he has been fathered by God.
Bless you

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave,
Tit for tat:
You like many others believe only the punishment or the penalty for sin has been ultimately removed and taken away; not sin itself. I’ve asked for scripture to confirm your position, but it doesn’t appear to be so. I’ve asked to present scripture that teach Jesus has taken away the penalty for sin, but not sin. What you’re showing me doesn’t answer that question.

I do not doubt or speak against Jesus taking away the penalty for sin. We can read that Jesus took away our penalty; our suffering; our beating and our death. Just as we can read what Jesus did for our sins. The problem comes when people say Jesus did not completely atone and take away our sins forever as scripture teaches. Another problem with this reasoning is if Jesus didn’t rise from the dead, He would not have taken the victory over sin. The punishment had nothing to do with the resurrection and the victory over sin.

Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

When Jesus rose He showed He judged the devil and took the victory over sin; condemning it (Rom. 8:3). The devil is the author of sin not man. Jesus had to rise from the dead for man’s justification in order to redeem man from sins. If Jesus did not rise from the dead, man would not be justified and declared righteous and acquitted from sin.

Jesus took the punishment for sins first and then had to rise for our acquittal. The resurrection had nothing to do with the punishment or penalty of sin. This is why the endurance of the punishment/penalty was a separate issue from the victory of sin. When Jesus rose, He legally purchased man back from the nature of sin. Man was legally sold over to sin when Adam sinned (Rom. 7:14).

Under the Mosaic Covenant believers could not be redeemed from their sin, they could only be forgiven of their sins. Once Jesus died and rose, He redeemed us for eternity from sin (Heb. 9:12).

To understand what Christ has truly done, just read what the blood of bulls and goats did. Then read what Jesus Christ did.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave,
I know you are yet in your sins because you told me you are a sinner. Is your faith in vain? You cannot be an high priest and a sinner?

Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

 

[Dave M]

@regibassman57 I got nothing but love for you if you can not dis agree with me in a respectful way I am sorry for that, I tell you I love and bless you in Jesus name and also leave you with this

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave M,
I'm not being disrespectful to you. I made a comparison. You told me you were a sinner. The point that I was making was you cannot tell me you are a sinner and not expect me to show you what scripture says about it. I guarantee you, I have no ill feeling towards you. Yes I love you also. If I did not conduct myself in love, you are not the one I fear, but I fear chastisment of The Lord.

Love is so much more than faith. If I call myself witnessing taking about, "I have faith in God and His word," and do not show love towards you, my faith is in vain.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

I know I'm not a writer so my expressions of love may get lost in my lack of writting skills.