What to expect in hell
- Thread starter KingJ
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Does it really matter? The fact is that they listened to Satan rather than obeying God.
Beetow
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• Gen 3:6d . . she took of its fruit and ate.
The important thing to note at this point, is that the woman was unaffected by the
fruit: she experienced no ill side effects and went right on naked as usual; feeling
no shame about it whatsoever.
• Gen 3:6e . . She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it.
( The phrase "who was with her" has led some folks to suggest that Adam was
standing beside his woman all thru the incident; but it could simply mean they were
still a cohabiting couple, viz: weren't split up living apart. )
I have to wonder why the husband followed his wife's lead and did something he
knew full well to be breaking God's edict and putting himself at risk of death.
Genesis doesn't reveal why Adam chose to eat the fruit. I suppose he had his
reasons, but apparently God didn't think they were sufficient to excuse the man's
defiance. (Gen 3:17)
But I think Adam was at least cautious at first, and kept a wary eye on his wife for
some time waiting to see if she would get sick; and when she didn't, he surely had
to wonder if maybe he misunderstood God.
I think most husbands would sympathize with Adam. I mean: he was told by a
supposedly competent source that the forbidden tree was unfit for human
consumption. But here's your wife sitting right beside you happily munching away
and she's still healthy, lucid, and exhibiting no ill side effects. How is a reasonable
man supposed to argue with empirical evidence as good as that?
NOTE: 1Tim 2:14 is oftentimes used to allege that Adam wasn't tricked into eating
the fruit. But the trickery in that particular passage is related to the Serpent. In
other words: Adam wasn't fooled by the Devil, instead, he was made a fool by his
wife.
_
The important thing to note at this point, is that the woman was unaffected by the
fruit: she experienced no ill side effects and went right on naked as usual; feeling
no shame about it whatsoever.
• Gen 3:6e . . She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it.
( The phrase "who was with her" has led some folks to suggest that Adam was
standing beside his woman all thru the incident; but it could simply mean they were
still a cohabiting couple, viz: weren't split up living apart. )
I have to wonder why the husband followed his wife's lead and did something he
knew full well to be breaking God's edict and putting himself at risk of death.
Genesis doesn't reveal why Adam chose to eat the fruit. I suppose he had his
reasons, but apparently God didn't think they were sufficient to excuse the man's
defiance. (Gen 3:17)
But I think Adam was at least cautious at first, and kept a wary eye on his wife for
some time waiting to see if she would get sick; and when she didn't, he surely had
to wonder if maybe he misunderstood God.
I think most husbands would sympathize with Adam. I mean: he was told by a
supposedly competent source that the forbidden tree was unfit for human
consumption. But here's your wife sitting right beside you happily munching away
and she's still healthy, lucid, and exhibiting no ill side effects. How is a reasonable
man supposed to argue with empirical evidence as good as that?
NOTE: 1Tim 2:14 is oftentimes used to allege that Adam wasn't tricked into eating
the fruit. But the trickery in that particular passage is related to the Serpent. In
other words: Adam wasn't fooled by the Devil, instead, he was made a fool by his
wife.
_
God created Adam first and warned him about the tree of the knowledge of both good and evil that he would die if he ate of its fruit. And then God decided to give Adam a partner that was like him another human being. They were meant to be together. She was Adam's helpmeet. So of course the were together. Where else would they be. The serpent enters the picture and lies to Eve and she gave some of the fruit to Adam. And instantly they realized they were naked and heard God coming they hid from Him and covered themselves with fig leaves.
They believed Satan's lies instead of obeying God's Word. They were kicked out of the perfect garden. Work and child birth would be hard. And they would eventually die instead of living forever in innocence. Their attempt at covering themselves / good works / was replaced by the shedding of animals blood and the animals skins were their coverings.
Sin entered the world through them. And since then / the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross has provided salvation for mankind. But it isn't automatic-- the individual person needs to see their need for salvation and accept Jesus Christ shed blood as being sufficient to take care of our sins
.
They believed Satan's lies instead of obeying God's Word. They were kicked out of the perfect garden. Work and child birth would be hard. And they would eventually die instead of living forever in innocence. Their attempt at covering themselves / good works / was replaced by the shedding of animals blood and the animals skins were their coverings.
Sin entered the world through them. And since then / the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross has provided salvation for mankind. But it isn't automatic-- the individual person needs to see their need for salvation and accept Jesus Christ shed blood as being sufficient to take care of our sins
.
Beetow
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Only the woman believed the Serpent.
• 1Tim 2:14 . . Adam was not deceived
Sin and death entered the world only thru the male rather than thru both the male
and the female.
• Rom 5:12 . .By one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin
• Rom 5:15 . .Through the offense of one, many be dead
• Rom 5:17 . . By one man's offense death reigned by one
• Rom 5:18 . .By the offense of one, judgment came upon all men
• Rom 5:19 . . By one man's disobedience, many were made sinners
When people try to include the woman in humanity's fall, they mess up Jesus as an
anti-type of Adam in the fifth chapter of Romans, viz: humanity's fall was a guy thing,
just as humanity's restoration is a guy thing. The woman took part instigating
humanity's fall, but she not to blame for it: only the man's to blame.
_
Jonathan_Gale
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I think it does, because God looks into the heart and examines the motive. In the first scenario, Adam’d rather listen to Eve than to God, that’s willing disobedience, he was already questioning God’s instruction, there’s malicious intent; in the second scenario, he’d rather listen to God than to Eve, but he did what he believed was wrong out of his love for Eve, no malicious intent, just weak character, cracked under pressure.
complete
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Hello @B-A-C,
Yes, Praise God! ' ... there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.' (Act 24:15b) (see also Hebrews 11:35)
* No, it was not an unknown concept. For Paul in Acts 24:15 pointed out that his countrymen believed in a resurrection of the dead. As did Martha in John 11:24: and the O.T. saints in Hebrews 11.
* No, Praise God! They will not stay that way, they will be raised: Some to face judgment and the second death, and others to life everlasting.
* Paul said:-
'That I may know Him,
and the power of His resurrection, (exanastasis)
and the fellowship of His sufferings,
being made conformable unto His death;
If by any means I might attain unto
the resurrection of the dead.'
(Php 3:10-11)
* This word translated 'resurrection', used by Paul, here in Philippians 3, is not found anywhere else in Scripture, it means, 'out-resurrection', out from among the dead: whereas, the term, 'the resurrection of the dead' (anastasis nekron) is used frequently and includes the resurrection to life also of the just and the unjust. There would be no doubt of Paul attaining to that. This resurrection 'from' the dead implies the resurrection of some, with others being left behind, as in the case of the first of the two resurrections mentioned in Revelation 20:5-6 for example. This, Paul is unsure of attaining to. Perhaps, as in the case of the first of the two resurrections of Revelation 20, it required the ultimate sacrifice, of loving not their lives unto death, for the word of God, and the witness of Jesus.
'But the rest of the dead lived not again
until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:
on such the second death hath no power,
but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,
and shall reign with Him a thousand years.'
(Rev 20:5-6)
* Well, Paul did endure unto the end, as a faithful witness of the risen Lord, and so I have no doubt that he will attain unto that 'out-resurrection', out from among dead ones of Philippians 3, whenever that takes place.
* His life is now hid with Christ in God, awaiting His appearing, when he Paul also will appear with Him (Colossians 3:4), along with all who love His appearing (2 Timothy 4:8).
Praise God!
Thank you,
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Last edited:
Greetings,
I would suggest that loss of immortality is not a 'simply' condition to find oneself in?
Likewise, according to what we read in the Book of Revelation, who are those who have access to the Tree Of Life?
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Revelation 2:7
Bless you ....><>
I would suggest that loss of immortality is not a 'simply' condition to find oneself in?
Likewise, according to what we read in the Book of Revelation, who are those who have access to the Tree Of Life?
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Revelation 2:7
Bless you ....><>
complete
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Subject heading:- What to expect in hell?
Hello there,The problem with this subject is that we all have differing views as to what hell is, and it's purpose.
I believe that hell is the place of the dead, where a dead body rests in the grave, and goes back to the dust from whence it came.
I do not believe that the Scriptures refer to hell as a place of eternal conscious punishment.
Only the power of the resurrection can raise the dead, and quicken them into life.
So all that can be expected in hell or the grave, is unconsciousness and the corruption of the flesh.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Beetow
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Misogyny was given quite a bit of negative press during former US President
Trump's administration; while misandry was treated as if acceptable. But malice is
unacceptable with God on any level; and I think we have to accept the possibility
that there are just as many, if not more, man haters in Hell as there are woman
haters.
• Rom 2:9-11. .There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does
evil: For God does not show favoritism.
Women are not a protected species with God; nor is their gender a mitigating
factor. They will be judged solely on the basis of their lives just the same as men.
• Rev 20:12-15 . . I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and
books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead
were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea
gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were
in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. . . And whosoever's
name was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
* I would really hate to be a woman infected with militant misandry because in the
end, it will be a man that casts malicious women into the lake of fire and permanently
ruining any chances they might have had for happiness in the future. For all
eternity, condemned man haters will grind their teeth with hot tears and white
knuckled fury that they ultimately lost out on everything because of one lone male's
obsessive control over their lives.
_
Trump's administration; while misandry was treated as if acceptable. But malice is
unacceptable with God on any level; and I think we have to accept the possibility
that there are just as many, if not more, man haters in Hell as there are woman
haters.
• Rom 2:9-11. .There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does
evil: For God does not show favoritism.
Women are not a protected species with God; nor is their gender a mitigating
factor. They will be judged solely on the basis of their lives just the same as men.
• Rev 20:12-15 . . I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and
books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead
were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea
gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were
in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. . . And whosoever's
name was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
* I would really hate to be a woman infected with militant misandry because in the
end, it will be a man that casts malicious women into the lake of fire and permanently
ruining any chances they might have had for happiness in the future. For all
eternity, condemned man haters will grind their teeth with hot tears and white
knuckled fury that they ultimately lost out on everything because of one lone male's
obsessive control over their lives.
_
Last edited:
Beetow
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• Judg 17:1-6 . . A man named Micah lived in the hill country of Ephraim. One day
he said to his mother: I heard you curse the thief who stole eleven hundred pieces
of silver from you. Well, here they are. I was the one who took them. The Lord
bless you for admitting it; his mother replied.
. . . He returned the money to her, and she said: I now dedicate these silver coins
to The Lord. In honor of my son, I will have an image carved and an idol cast. So
his mother took two hundred of the silver coins to a silversmith, who made them
into an image and an idol. And these were placed in Micah's house.
Micah's mother (I'll call her Ophelia) broke the very first commandment of the
covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God on oath per Exodus, Leviticus,
Numbers, and Deuteronomy by making statuettes to represent God. (Ex 20:2-4)
The interesting thing about Ophelia's religious confusion is that Jehovah was her
God; but in the wrong way; viz: her religion was a mixture of truth and error. The
sad part is; Ophelia's mixed up religious beliefs didn't lead only just herself into
disfavor with The Lord, no, it led her offspring into disfavor too.
Christians sometimes extol the mothers of the saints. Well let me tell you
something about mothers. They may mean well; but just because they are mothers
doesn't make them right. Ophelia is a timeless case in point. Mothers are the best
Judas Goats one can imagine. They can lead their children to disaster with far more
effectiveness than the demon world because mothers have the advantage of trust.
Kids are naturally inclined to rely upon their parents, so they are easy victims of
misinformation when the source of that misinformation are moms and dads-- most
especially moms.
You know what can be even worse than going to Hell? Your own children following
you there: and they trusted you. Can you just imagine the anguish that mothers
feel in the netherworld knowing they brought up their children to follow an ideology
whose pot at the end of the rainbow is filled with brimstone instead of gold. How do
mothers bear up under something like that on their conscience?
_
he said to his mother: I heard you curse the thief who stole eleven hundred pieces
of silver from you. Well, here they are. I was the one who took them. The Lord
bless you for admitting it; his mother replied.
. . . He returned the money to her, and she said: I now dedicate these silver coins
to The Lord. In honor of my son, I will have an image carved and an idol cast. So
his mother took two hundred of the silver coins to a silversmith, who made them
into an image and an idol. And these were placed in Micah's house.
Micah's mother (I'll call her Ophelia) broke the very first commandment of the
covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God on oath per Exodus, Leviticus,
Numbers, and Deuteronomy by making statuettes to represent God. (Ex 20:2-4)
The interesting thing about Ophelia's religious confusion is that Jehovah was her
God; but in the wrong way; viz: her religion was a mixture of truth and error. The
sad part is; Ophelia's mixed up religious beliefs didn't lead only just herself into
disfavor with The Lord, no, it led her offspring into disfavor too.
Christians sometimes extol the mothers of the saints. Well let me tell you
something about mothers. They may mean well; but just because they are mothers
doesn't make them right. Ophelia is a timeless case in point. Mothers are the best
Judas Goats one can imagine. They can lead their children to disaster with far more
effectiveness than the demon world because mothers have the advantage of trust.
Kids are naturally inclined to rely upon their parents, so they are easy victims of
misinformation when the source of that misinformation are moms and dads-- most
especially moms.
You know what can be even worse than going to Hell? Your own children following
you there: and they trusted you. Can you just imagine the anguish that mothers
feel in the netherworld knowing they brought up their children to follow an ideology
whose pot at the end of the rainbow is filled with brimstone instead of gold. How do
mothers bear up under something like that on their conscience?
_
Beetow
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• Matt 10:39 . .Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my
sake will find it.
A major impediment for radical feminists becoming effective Christian disciples is
Jesus' gender. You see, at the heart of feminism is the drive for equality between
the sexes. Yet the very lord and master of Christianity, the supreme male in the
universe; demands women to place his values above and beyond their own. Good
luck with that ladies.
• Luke 14:26 . . If you want to be my follower you must love me more than your
own father and mother, wife and children brothers and sisters-- yes, more than
your own life. And you cannot be my disciple if you do take up your own cross and
follow me.
In Jesus' day, crosses were for executions. So when Jesus told his disciples to "take
up their own cross" it meant stifling their own way; viz: it was a call to abandon self
interests, and follow their Master's directions.
• Rom 12:1-2 . .Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer
your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God-- this is your spiritual act
of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be
transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and
approve what God's will is-- his good, pleasing and perfect will.
_
sake will find it.
A major impediment for radical feminists becoming effective Christian disciples is
Jesus' gender. You see, at the heart of feminism is the drive for equality between
the sexes. Yet the very lord and master of Christianity, the supreme male in the
universe; demands women to place his values above and beyond their own. Good
luck with that ladies.
• Luke 14:26 . . If you want to be my follower you must love me more than your
own father and mother, wife and children brothers and sisters-- yes, more than
your own life. And you cannot be my disciple if you do take up your own cross and
follow me.
In Jesus' day, crosses were for executions. So when Jesus told his disciples to "take
up their own cross" it meant stifling their own way; viz: it was a call to abandon self
interests, and follow their Master's directions.
• Rom 12:1-2 . .Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer
your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God-- this is your spiritual act
of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be
transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and
approve what God's will is-- his good, pleasing and perfect will.
_
Beetow
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• Rev 16:8-9 . .The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was
given power to scorch people with fire. They were seared by the intense heat and
they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused
to repent and glorify Him.
• Rev 16:10-11 . .The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast,
and his kingdom was plunged into darkness. Men gnawed their tongues in agony
and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they
refused to repent of what they had done.
You know what's missing in those two scenarios? The element of fright is missing.
The recipients of those acts of God actually get angry and resentful instead of
scared.
Back in the sixth chapter, people panic and actually pray to be buried alive rather
than face the wrath of God. But apparently by the time of the sixteenth chapter,
they're over it. Well; no surprise there.
The first time I heard of Jesus' return I got nervous because, at the time, I had a
lot to answer for. But the nervousness soon passed, and I became indignant
because I don't like being made afraid; so I can sort of understand the people's
change of mood between the sixth chapter and the sixteenth. Hell is no doubt
populated by a large number of very outraged folks.
_
given power to scorch people with fire. They were seared by the intense heat and
they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused
to repent and glorify Him.
• Rev 16:10-11 . .The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast,
and his kingdom was plunged into darkness. Men gnawed their tongues in agony
and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they
refused to repent of what they had done.
You know what's missing in those two scenarios? The element of fright is missing.
The recipients of those acts of God actually get angry and resentful instead of
scared.
Back in the sixth chapter, people panic and actually pray to be buried alive rather
than face the wrath of God. But apparently by the time of the sixteenth chapter,
they're over it. Well; no surprise there.
The first time I heard of Jesus' return I got nervous because, at the time, I had a
lot to answer for. But the nervousness soon passed, and I became indignant
because I don't like being made afraid; so I can sort of understand the people's
change of mood between the sixth chapter and the sixteenth. Hell is no doubt
populated by a large number of very outraged folks.
_
Beetow
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The way I figure it: seeing as how God is an intelligent, mature adult (so to speak)
who's never petty, nor capricious, nor biased, nor fickle, nor impulsive, nor
unreasonable, and takes no kind of sick pleasure in causing people harm; then God
must be just as stuck with Hell and can't make it go away with any more ease than
we can.
For reasons I have yet to even guess, Hell is unavoidable even for God because it's
somehow the right thing to do; i.e. it has to be utilized for punishment in order to
satisfy a level of justice that our limited little minds may never be able to fully
grasp.
• Ps 145:17 . .The Lord is righteous in all His ways
_
who's never petty, nor capricious, nor biased, nor fickle, nor impulsive, nor
unreasonable, and takes no kind of sick pleasure in causing people harm; then God
must be just as stuck with Hell and can't make it go away with any more ease than
we can.
For reasons I have yet to even guess, Hell is unavoidable even for God because it's
somehow the right thing to do; i.e. it has to be utilized for punishment in order to
satisfy a level of justice that our limited little minds may never be able to fully
grasp.
• Ps 145:17 . .The Lord is righteous in all His ways
_
Jonathan_Gale
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Hi there! Been a while since I last posted here, how are you? I just wanna pointed out that try to see God as the creator first - who is OUTSIDE the time-space continuum we’re living in. He loves us who are created in his image, with his character, as his joy and pride, that’s why we address him as the Father. Hell, as in the lake of Fire, is not for us, but for the corrupt “sons of god” in Ps.82:1, Gen. 6:3, etc, they chose Satan over God and led nations to sin, therefore they will be burning in hell.
KingJ
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Your belief would fall under 'annihilationism' as the wicked would cease to exist.
Jonathan_Gale
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The real problem with this subject is that we all have different definitions of SOUL - nephesh in Hebrew and psyche in Greek. In the bible it simply means "life" or "living creature" without any connotation of immortality or eternity it has in English. Without a clear understanding of that, it's a waste of time to discuss what to expect in hell, since we can't even reach an agreement on what potenially goes to hell.
Beetow
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FAQ: What is meant by soul?
REPLY: Soul began appearing in the Bible in the book of Genesis by the Hebrew
word nephesh (neh'-fesh) which isn't unique to human life. Its first appearance is at
Gen 1:20-21 in reference to aqua creatures and winged creatures; again at Gen
1:24 as terra creatures; viz: cattle, creepy crawlies, and wild beasts; and again in
Gen 2:7 as the human creature; and yet again at Gen 9:10 to classify every living
thing aboard Noah's ark.
* God is said to have a soul. (Lev 26:11, Lev 26:30, Judg 10:16, Isa 42:1, Jer
32:41, and Zech 11:8)
Soul is somewhat ambiguous but basically refers to consciousness, self awareness,
and individuality. It's sometimes a reference to one's heart, e.g. Gen 34:3, and to
the core of one's being, e.g. Gen 27:4.
All in all, soul is just another way of referring to that part of sentient life that we
call "self" which can be roughly defined as the who that you are.
Jesus' followers can expect to retain their souls when they pass on, but things are
not looking good for the lost. According to Matt 10:28, people's souls survive
normal death, but do not survive Hell fire. That fact gives me pause to question
whether people condemned to the lake of fire-- depicted by Rev 20:11-15 --will be
aware of their circumstances in an environment that destroys both soul and body.
_
REPLY: Soul began appearing in the Bible in the book of Genesis by the Hebrew
word nephesh (neh'-fesh) which isn't unique to human life. Its first appearance is at
Gen 1:20-21 in reference to aqua creatures and winged creatures; again at Gen
1:24 as terra creatures; viz: cattle, creepy crawlies, and wild beasts; and again in
Gen 2:7 as the human creature; and yet again at Gen 9:10 to classify every living
thing aboard Noah's ark.
* God is said to have a soul. (Lev 26:11, Lev 26:30, Judg 10:16, Isa 42:1, Jer
32:41, and Zech 11:8)
Soul is somewhat ambiguous but basically refers to consciousness, self awareness,
and individuality. It's sometimes a reference to one's heart, e.g. Gen 34:3, and to
the core of one's being, e.g. Gen 27:4.
All in all, soul is just another way of referring to that part of sentient life that we
call "self" which can be roughly defined as the who that you are.
Jesus' followers can expect to retain their souls when they pass on, but things are
not looking good for the lost. According to Matt 10:28, people's souls survive
normal death, but do not survive Hell fire. That fact gives me pause to question
whether people condemned to the lake of fire-- depicted by Rev 20:11-15 --will be
aware of their circumstances in an environment that destroys both soul and body.
_
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Hello @KingJ,
With respect, I do not think in terms of categories.
In regard to those who have ceased to live, and are clinically dead, then I believe the testimony of Scripture reveals that they go to 'the place of the dead' which is the grave, or gravedom (hell). The spirit, or breath of life which energises man, goes back to God Who gave it, and man ceases to be a living soul. Only the power of the resurrection can quicken the dead into life again, until that day of God's choosing, the dead remain where they lie. Corpses, lacking any form of consciousness, their thoughts having died with them.
In God's estimation those who have died (in Christ) are 'asleep in Christ', this is God's reckoning of faith, awaiting their awakening to life eternal at the resurrection, for their lives are hid with Christ in God. While the unbelieving dead are spoken not as 'asleep', but as 'dead', for though they will be raised to judgment, they do not have the hope of life as the believer does. For the believer there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus: only the unbeliever has to face condemnation and the prospect of the second death.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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