When Will God Judge His House First?

[GodB4Us]

I've heard of this "second creation account" heresy, they argue that since animals and birds were created after Adam instead of before, then this must be a different one.

I agree that there is only one creation account and that the second account was just a more detailed account of what had happened on the 6th day.

They have overlooked an important fact that the Garden of Eden and the whole planet earth weer DIFFERENT. Gen 2 and 3 were set in Eden, which was a tiny speck, according to some Jewish tradition that was the intersection of heaven and earth.

Not sure how you see the difference.

Adam was brought in to meet and name all the animals, and finally meet his wife, Eve. Yes, I agree that it was a more detailed account of Day 6, but that's not a parallel creation account. God just formed animals and birds from the ground without mentioning "each according to its kind" because that was already done, God was presenting existing kinds of animal - which He had ALREADY created - to Adam, He was not creating any additional kinds.

I agree.

Then you're straight up denying Rev. 17:15 and its application in the whole book just because it doesn't fit in your theory.

Where is any mention of the usage of earth per your reference that is a metaphor for Israel? I see one reference to earth, but I fail to see how that can be Israel when the ten kings are of that earth.

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the ***** sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the *****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

I see the ***** as Babylon that is to be judged and fallen in Revelation 18:1-24 and that the ten kings are responsible for her destruction in verse 16 above.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Then where are the different groups of people in this verse below in respect to the leaven as you see it when the kingdom of heaven is that leaven and winds up "till" the whole was leavened?

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

What are the 3 measures of meal that a woman "hid" that is responsible for the leavening for the "whole" kingdom of heaven?

I do not believe you are reading the verse as is, as separate from the other parables in discerning what it is about the kingdom of heaven that Jesus is addressing since it is responsible for the leavening of the whole kingdom of heaven.

If you consider God's commandment below;

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Some have used verse 4 as a conviction not to make any statue or painting of living things, but there are angels on top of the ark and the serpent on the pole. It was later when a certain group of Jews that began worshiping the serpent on the pole was for why the serpent on the pole was destroyed.

So you are misapplying God's commandment about the Passover and the 7 days of unleavened bread as if the Jews were never to eat leavened bread at all when it was just for the Passover and the 7 days of unleavened bread.

In the same sense you are applying the parables about the Kingdom of Heaven as if it is all about the different groups of that kingdom of heaven rather than how the "whole" kingdom of heaven shall wind up as in Matthew 13:33.

Look, from what I've learned from Pastor Brandon, those three measures of meal represent the major INSTITUTIONS of church - Russian Orthodox, Roman Catholic and the Protestant. At the beginning they were pretty good, full of zeal and faith, but several centuries in, all gone corrupt and astray from sound teaching. This is pretty much prophesied in Rev. 2-3 where you have the Nicolaitans, the Balaam and the Jezebel misleading the flock. That's the leaven of the Pharisees right there, I'm not misapplying it or making it up, I just see the connection and make my case.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Where is any mention of the usage of earth per your reference that is a metaphor for Israel? I see one reference to earth, but I fail to see how that can be Israel when the ten kings are of that earth.

That usage is in the OT prophecy books, especially in Isaiah. In Is. 1:2, God declared: "Hear O heavens, and give ear, O earth!" That was addressing to none other than Israel - "They have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked to anger, the Holy One of Israel, they have turned away backward." Then there's chapter 24, the entire chapter is about God's judgement on the earth - "Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waster, distorts its surface and scatters abroad its inhabitants." (Is. 24:1). This is basic level symbolism which apostle John knew very well, it was very obvious so that angels didn't need to explain that to him.

 

[GodB4Us]

Look, from what I've learned from Pastor Brandon, those three measures of meal represent the major INSTITUTIONS of church - Russian Orthodox, Roman Catholic and the Protestant. At the beginning they were pretty good, full of zeal and faith, but several centuries in, all gone corrupt and astray from sound teaching. This is pretty much prophesied in Rev. 2-3 where you have the Nicolaitans, the Balaam and the Jezebel misleading the flock. That's the leaven of the Pharisees right there, I'm not misapplying it or making it up, I just see the connection and make my case.

Thank you for sharing, but for Pastor Brandon to assign the three measures of meals to 3 major institution of the church as being the whole of the kingdom of heaven is overlooking the O.T. saints & the significance of the 7 churches in Revelation that it cannot be just those 3 major institution being that three measure of meals. What about the generations coming out of the millennium reign of Christ that would remain loyal to Christ?

Forget Pastor Brandon and forget me. You are to rely on Jesus Christ as your Good Shepherd for the wisdom and discernment in understanding His words as well as confirming or reproving what others share with you.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
25 Brethren, pray for us.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

I wish I can help you see what I see in His words, but I can't any more than you to me. All we can do is share the "talents" as He enables us and pray for the other while relying on Him to help others to receive those talents.

If we come to a disagreement, that is not to say that sometime down the road, He will enable one of us to see the truth in His words since it is on God to cause the increase.

 

[GodB4Us]

That usage is in the OT prophecy books, especially in Isaiah. In Is. 1:2, God declared: "Hear O heavens, and give ear, O earth!" That was addressing to none other than Israel - "They have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked to anger, the Holy One of Israel, they have turned away backward." Then there's chapter 24, the entire chapter is about God's judgement on the earth - "Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waster, distorts its surface and scatters abroad its inhabitants." (Is. 24:1). This is basic level symbolism which apostle John knew very well, it was very obvious so that angels didn't need to explain that to him.

How can God be addressing the earth as Israel when He was also addressing the heavens? Are the heavens also Israel? I believe God is giving a judgment on Israel that all the heavens and the earth will see and not just Israel. Indeed, most nations that create their gods, never have their gods judge them because they were created by them, but God founded Israel and is the God of that chosen nation and when they go astray, God will judge His people for all the heavens and the earth to see that He is the God that reigns.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

How can God be addressing the earth as Israel when He was also addressing the heavens? Are the heavens also Israel? I believe God is giving a judgment on Israel that all the heavens and the earth will see and not just Israel. Indeed, most nations that create their gods, never have their gods judge them because they were created by them, but God founded Israel and is the God of that chosen nation and when they go astray, God will judge His people for all the heavens and the earth to see that He is the God that reigns.

"Heavens" are where God and the angels dwell, of course He also judges the angels. Those seven letters in Revelation are actually addressed to seven angels, although they are talking about His seven churches. Some say that these "watcher" angels are the spiritual forces that control all the earthly governments, so "heavens" may also be referring to political powers.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Thank you for sharing, but for Pastor Brandon to assign the three measures of meals to 3 major institution of the church as being the whole of the kingdom of heaven is overlooking the O.T. saints & the significance of the 7 churches in Revelation that it cannot be just those 3 major institution being that three measure of meals. What about the generations coming out of the millennium reign of Christ that would remain loyal to Christ?

My bottom line is, that parable of the leaven is NOT the whole picture, those three measures of meal don’t necessarily cover all churches at all times, otherwise why would Jesus tell seven parables in a row? They are not seven standalone little pictures, I’ve never read them in that way, with or without the influence of pastor Brandon’s teaching.

 

[GodB4Us]

"Heavens" are where God and the angels dwell, of course He also judges the angels. Those seven letters in Revelation are actually addressed to seven angels, although they are talking about His seven churches. Some say that these "watcher" angels are the spiritual forces that control all the earthly governments, so "heavens" may also be referring to political powers.

In relation to your comment in applying your scripture reference about Israel being the earth, when God is addressing the heavens and the earth, then the earth is not representing Israel when God is calling the heavens and the earth to bear witness to His judgment on Israel.

 

[GodB4Us]

My bottom line is, that parable of the leaven is NOT the whole picture, those three measures of meal don’t necessarily cover all churches at all times, otherwise why would Jesus tell seven parables in a row? They are not seven standalone little pictures, I’ve never read them in that way, with or without the influence of pastor Brandon’s teaching.

Try asking Jesus to help you see what aspect of the kingdom of heaven He is addressing in that short parable.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Try asking Jesus to help you see what aspect of the kingdom of heaven He is addressing in that short parable.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Thanks, but Jesus taught, “seek, and you shall find.” As I said many times, he’s in heaven, he uses human sources to reveal his truth and advance his kingdom. The Holy Spirit directs me to all kinds of sources, some of which are secular sources on the surface, which you and other Christians might despise and dismiss, that’s how it’s put into practice.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

In relation to your comment in applying your scripture reference about Israel being the earth, when God is addressing the heavens and the earth, then the earth is not representing Israel when God is calling the heavens and the earth to bear witness to His judgment on Israel.

Go read Is. 24 and other chapters where God is calling out the earth. You said it yourself that try asking Jesus to help see the truth, then so be it.

 

[GodB4Us]

Thanks, but Jesus taught, “seek, and you shall find.” As I said many times, he’s in heaven, he uses human sources to reveal his truth and advance his kingdom. The Holy Spirit directs me to all kinds of sources, some of which are secular sources on the surface, which you and other Christians might despise and dismiss, that’s how it’s put into practice.

Yet at the same time, to prove all things by the Lord Jesus Christ, even my own perception of what I see as truth in His words to make sure I am sharing truth to others from time to time, thus always open to learning & correction from the Lord.

In your case, your pastor is overlooking other groups of saints like the O.T. saints and the generational millennium saints that make up the whole of the kingdom of Heaven. It cannot be confined to N.T. saints & churches.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

 

[GodB4Us]

Go read Is. 24 and other chapters where God is calling out the earth. You said it yourself that try asking Jesus to help see the truth, then so be it.

Why should I when your reference has Him calling the heavens to bear witness of His judgment on Israel and not just the earth? You can discern the truth in His words just in your reference alone.

Is. 1:2, God declared: "Hear O heavens, and give ear, O earth!" That was addressing to none other than Israel - "They have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked to anger, the Holy One of Israel, they have turned away backward."

Even the reference in your quote

Then there's chapter 24, the entire chapter is about God's judgement on the earth - "Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waster, distorts its surface and scatters abroad its inhabitants." (Is. 24:1).

God is not only judging Israel but the inhabitants of the earth that the people from the isles of the sea shall see and fear as the kings of the earth and not just Israel shall bear witness of God's judgment on Israel.

Isaiah 24:13 When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done.
14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the Lord, they shall cry aloud from the sea.
15 Wherefore glorify ye the Lord in the fires, even the name of the Lord God of Israel in the isles of the sea.
16 From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.
17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Right now the earth has shifted on its axis for why there are terrible storms upon the earth. They may blame it on global warming, but God is punishing the world, the EU & USA, for aiding the enemy of Israel, Iran, in its nuclear deal.

So I believe that is what has happened back then. We see how there are Jews under every nations under the heavens that came to visit Jerusalem at the time of Pentecost, and indeed, were there for Jesus's crucifixion and so that is how the punishment of Israel was being seen by the inhabitants of the heavens and the earth in Isaiah. The world will know God had punished Israel in Isiaah just as the world will know God is punishing the world for that nuclear deal with Iran.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

God is not only judging Israel but the inhabitants of the earth that the people from the isles of the sea shall see and fear as the kings of the earth and not just Israel shall bear witness of God's judgment on Israel.

Israelites WERE the inhabitants of the earth. They were scattered and land laid waste, that didn't happen to any other nation but Israel in history. All other nations were pagans with their own idols and spiritually controlled by wicked angels, they didn't know God and God didn't know them, if they received any judgement, then they brought it unto themselves. If there's anyone that ought to be held accountable by God, then it was the wicked angels, aka "watchers', hence heavens were called to attention.

 

[Bill]

The word of God IS the Spirit! (Eph. 6:17, Heb. 4:12) What I was saying is Sola Scriptura, in Scripture alone, which is one of the five Solas. This is also known as exegesis. If you think you are smart and go interpret it by yourself, then that's just your own opinion. Isn't it written that we should not lean on our own understanding?

If the Holy Spirit guides you then you're not learning on your own understanding or your own cognizance

 

[Bill]

Israelites WERE the inhabitants of the earth. They were scattered and land laid waste, that didn't happen to any other nation but Israel in history. All other nations were pagans with their own idols and spiritually controlled by wicked angels, they didn't know God and God didn't know them, if they received any judgement, then they brought it unto themselves. If there's anyone that ought to be held accountable by God, then it was the wicked angels, aka "watchers', hence heavens were called to attention.

This all goes back to what Paul was talking about when he States what is a real Jew. A real Jew is not one that is born a Jew, a real Jew is one whose heart is circumcised for God

This was why I was saying before about us as Christians, those of us who love God are real Jews

 

[Bill]

The word of God IS the Spirit! (Eph. 6:17, Heb. 4:12) What I was saying is Sola Scriptura, in Scripture alone, which is one of the five Solas. This is also known as exegesis. If you think you are smart and go interpret it by yourself, then that's just your own opinion. Isn't it written that we should not lean on our own understanding?

I'm not trying to be a smart alec with you but I want you to understand why does Jesus need to interpret himself. Because that's what literally the scripture is it's the word. Jesus is the word of God Gospel of John chapter 1

 

[Bill]

The scriptural references are for believers below.

Since the warning is given to saved believers, as His servants that get cut off to be with unbelievers, and on top of that, get stripes per the measure they had for not being ready, I would rethink that. Luke 12:40-49

Jesus did say to those that are His disciples that when they stop abiding in Him and even by resisting the pruning to bear more fruit, they are at risk of being cut off and cast into that fire to be burned in John 15:1-8

Even the warning to one of His churches in Revelation spoke of the consequences of being cast into the bed of the great tribulation to be killed with death in Revelation 2:18-25 is why Paul warned us in from being a castaway 1 Corinthians 9:24-27

So I hope you are motivated to hope in Christ Jesus as your personal Good Shepherd & Friend in helping you to not only be ready to go as found abiding in Him, but helping you to be willing to go to escape the great tribulation Luke 21:33-36

Sorry my friend, i gave to the Lord my life years ago and the path he leads me is into the Lion's Den. I will be here untill my task is completed . And then the Lord will take me.

 

[Bill]

Look, from what I've learned from Pastor Brandon, those three measures of meal represent the major INSTITUTIONS of church - Russian Orthodox, Roman Catholic and the Protestant. At the beginning they were pretty good, full of zeal and faith, but several centuries in, all gone corrupt and astray from sound teaching. This is pretty much prophesied in Rev. 2-3 where you have the Nicolaitans, the Balaam and the Jezebel misleading the flock. That's the leaven of the Pharisees right there, I'm not misapplying it or making it up, I just see the connection and make my case.

If you are going to survive the future the Catholics will have to forgive the Protestants and the Protestants will have to forgive the Catholics. It is the only way.

And I can guarantee that the stubborn Catholics and the stubborn Protestants that don't want to do that will have it worse than anyone else on the planet. For much has been given and much is expected of them.

Those who live a life of love the love of the Lord. We'll find that the Holy Spirit will dwell within you and great Miracles will come from them.

I know there are some here who will say to you but I have the Holy Spirit I was baptized with the Holy Spirit and sure enough you were but there's a problem if you do not have love within you then all of that from the spirit has just gone to waste. The gifts of the holy spirit are free gifts but if you don't use them in love then what do you have nothing more than a gong clanging in the Wind.

This is where those of you who have been baptized in the spirit but cannot forgive your fellow Christians the Catholics you are in serious Danger be warned. You can laugh at me now but at your judgment you will see me standing on the steps before the Lord

 

[GodB4Us]

Israelites WERE the inhabitants of the earth. They were scattered and land laid waste, that didn't happen to any other nation but Israel in history. All other nations were pagans with their own idols and spiritually controlled by wicked angels, they didn't know God and God didn't know them, if they received any judgement, then they brought it unto themselves. If there's anyone that ought to be held accountable by God, then it was the wicked angels, aka "watchers', hence heavens were called to attention.

If you give any credence to the Book of Enoch as scripture, you should reconsider because no lie can be of the truth for why the Book of Enoch is not scripture. It is a plagiarized fraudulent piece of work borne out of Alexandria where poetic licensing has been known to exist.

Book of Enoch Chapter 18

Enoch 18:15. Then the angel said, This place, until the consummation of heaven and earth, will be the prison of the stars, and the host of heaven.
16. The stars which roll over fire are those which transgressed the commandment of God before their time arrived; for they came not in their proper season. Therefore was He offended with them, and bound them, until the period of the consummation of their crimes in the secret year.

This is one of the lies in the Book of Enoch above because Isaiah 55:11 below testify that the above is a lie.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

1 John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

May the Lord help you to disregard that fraudulent Book of Enoch.