Why God Commanded Women to be Silent in Church?

[JesusIs4Me]

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

It was a commandment of the Lord because of the fall of mankind due to man harkening to the voice of the woman. That is what Paul was talking about in this first epistle to the church at Corinth.

1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Paul says it again in his first letter to Timothy;

1 Timothy 1:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

The only reason this was written " Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety " was to defer from the condemnation cited in verse 14 so as to not let anyone think that women cannot be saved. The task of child bearing is mentioned as a deference from any temptation for women to teach in the assembly.

Granted, as per 1 Corinthians 14:38, if any man be ignorant, or if any woman be ignorant, then let them be ignorant.

I believe it is important to note this as a commandment from the Lord to help those to discern tongues with interpretation as well as interpreting the tongue as something that will NOT HAPPEN to women in the assembly when men are there.

Women are used by the Lord in outward ministry. Make no mistake about that, but it seems clear to me why women are not to teach nor usurp authority over a man in the assembly as a commandment from the Lord.

1 Corinthians 11:1Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Apparently in a church cited in Revelation, a woman was suffered to teach by whom they were led astray.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

So would the Holy Spirit manifest tongues, the interpretation of tongues, or even prophesy if the Lord's commandment is for women not to speak nor teach in the assembly?

Then believers today need to discern that tongue for why it is not coming with interpretation and why it comes about by what believers assume was the Holy Spirit coming over them apart from salvation? Because it is not of Him.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

1 Timothy 4:Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Tongues are for God in speaking unto the people; it was never to serve as a sign to already saved believers in voicing another calling by seeking to receive what they believe was the Holy Spirit coming into the worship place after a sensational sign in the flesh as if receiving Him again when in according to our faith, He forever indwells in us so we can know that was NOT the Holy Spirit coming over us by a sign as standing apart from the calling of the gospel when we were saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

All of us are supposed to share in that testimony in those 3 references above and not depart from it as if you can receive the Holy Spirit "again" apart from salvation after a sign; which is another drink of the One Spirit & thus another calling and another gospel.

So those who speak in tongues today need to go before that throne of grace in asking Jesus for help because this is one ignorance that is costing you a line of discernment when women are breaking the commandment by speaking in tongues and thus not being done by the Holy Spirit in them. Either they are faking it to fit in or they do have a supernatural tongue, but it is not of Him but speaking the utter depths of Satan for which they speak as coming without interpretation.

Indeed, you will need to discern the interpretation of tongues because some are winging the interpretation by "getting a feel" for what is being said and interpreting it that way ( as per Joyce Meyers ) which is WHY that tongue is just gibberish and not a language of men for God to speak unto the people by as so many tongue speakers are misled unaware that they do not have the actual God's gift of tongues. May God be peradventuring today to recover some from this snare of teh devil. Seek your edification from the written scripture in the KJV rather than tongues without interpretation as assumed to be used for self edification.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness..........24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

It was a commandment of the Lord because of the fall of mankind due to man harkening to the voice of the woman. That is what Paul was talking about in this first epistle to the church at Corinth.

1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Paul says it again in his first letter to Timothy;

1 Timothy 1:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

The only reason this was written " Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety " was to defer from the condemnation cited in verse 14 so as to not let anyone think that women cannot be saved. The task of child bearing is mentioned as a deference from any temptation for women to teach in the assembly.

Granted, as per 1 Corinthians 14:38, if any man be ignorant, or if any woman be ignorant, then let them be ignorant, but at least you can see what Paul was talking about as a commandment from the Lord.

~~~Editor's note * Shorter version of the OP without applying that as a line of discernment against a certain kind of tongue which is not of Him at all.

 

[Bendito]

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

It was a commandment of the Lord because of the fall of mankind due to man harkening to the voice of the woman. That is what Paul was talking about in this first epistle to the church at Corinth.

1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Paul says it again in his first letter to Timothy;

1 Timothy 1:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

The only reason this was written " Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety " was to defer from the condemnation cited in verse 14 so as to not let anyone think that women cannot be saved. The task of child bearing is mentioned as a deference from any temptation for women to teach in the assembly.

Granted, as per 1 Corinthians 14:38, if any man be ignorant, or if any woman be ignorant, then let them be ignorant.

I believe it is important to note this as a commandment from the Lord to help those to discern tongues with interpretation as well as interpreting the tongue as something that will NOT HAPPEN to women in the assembly when men are there.

Women are used by the Lord in outward ministry. Make no mistake about that, but it seems clear to me why women are not to teach nor usurp authority over a man in the assembly as a commandment from the Lord.

1 Corinthians 11:1Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Apparently in a church cited in Revelation, a woman was suffered to teach by whom they were led astray.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

So would the Holy Spirit manifest tongues, the interpretation of tongues, or even prophesy if the Lord's commandment is for women not to speak nor teach in the assembly?

Then believers today need to discern that tongue for why it is not coming with interpretation and why it comes about by what believers assume was the Holy Spirit coming over them apart from salvation? Because it is not of Him.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

1 Timothy 4:Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Tongues are for God in speaking unto the people; it was never to serve as a sign to already saved believers in voicing another calling by seeking to receive what they believe was the Holy Spirit coming into the worship place after a sensational sign in the flesh as if receiving Him again when in according to our faith, He forever indwells in us so we can know that was NOT the Holy Spirit coming over us by a sign as standing apart from the calling of the gospel when we were saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

All of us are supposed to share in that testimony in those 3 references above and not depart from it as if you can receive the Holy Spirit "again" apart from salvation after a sign; which is another drink of the One Spirit & thus another calling and another gospel.

So those who speak in tongues today need to go before that throne of grace in asking Jesus for help because this is one ignorance that is costing you a line of discernment when women are breaking the commandment by speaking in tongues and thus not being done by the Holy Spirit in them. Either they are faking it to fit in or they do have a supernatural tongue, but it is not of Him but speaking the utter depths of Satan for which they speak as coming without interpretation.

Indeed, you will need to discern the interpretation of tongues because some are winging the interpretation by "getting a feel" for what is being said and interpreting it that way ( as per Joyce Meyers ) which is WHY that tongue is just gibberish and not a language of men for God to speak unto the people by as so many tongue speakers are misled unaware that they do not have the actual God's gift of tongues. May God be peradventuring today to recover some from this snare of teh devil. Seek your edification from the written scripture in the KJV rather than tongues without interpretation as assumed to be used for self edification.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness..........24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

God did not command women to keep quiet in church.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

God did not command women to keep quiet in church.

The scripture in the second post says otherwise and why.

It is because Adam listening to Eve, men are held to a higher responsibility in the administration within the church. It is a commandment from the Lord since the fall of man as Paul understood it and referred to twice in two of his epistles.

Women can serve as missionaries or as social outreach from their homes. They are valued in that they can keep members and get new members involved and active in fellowship & home Bible studies and thus adding the desire in others for attending church.

When women complain about the men in how the women wind up doing everything, the women really should see the wisdom for why the Lord commands men to take leadership responsibility as well as being well versed in the Word in Church.

By the way, women are allowed to preach or teach or minister in Christian forums because it serves more as an outreach rather than a fellowship.

 

[Bendito]

The scripture in the second post says otherwise and why.

It is because Adam listening to Eve, men are held to a higher responsibility in the administration within the church. It is a commandment from the Lord since the fall of man as Paul understood it and referred to twice in two of his epistles.

Women can serve as missionaries or as social outreach from their homes. They are valued in that they can keep members and get new members involved and active in fellowship & home Bible studies and thus adding the desire in others for attending church.

When women complain about the men in how the women wind up doing everything, the women really should see the wisdom for why the Lord commands men to take leadership responsibility as well as being well versed in the Word in Church.

By the way, women are allowed to preach or teach or minister in Christian forums because it serves more as an outreach rather than a fellowship.

The bible does not tell women to keep silent in church. The scriptures you quoted are wildly out of context and also it is NOT written in the law. You should do a study on it instead of going by silly churchianity. The thing is pure blat...I've posted this before....


In 1 Cor. 14:34 the Apostle Paul’s letter states: “…the women should keep silent in the assemblies. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.” There are several major problems with this statement.

First, nowhere does the Jewish Law forbid women to speak in public gatherings. Paul, being a well-educated Jew, certainly would have known this. In fact, there was a law on the books that did forbid women to speak, vote and exercise authority over men by holding public office. It was not a Jewish, but a Roman law. These words would sound far more credible if someone else, other than the Jewish Apostle Paul, had written them.

Second, on numerous occasions throughout his travels and letters, the Apostle Paul affirmed the ministry of women (Rom 16:3-4; 1 Cor. 16:19; cf. Acts 16:11-40; 18:26). The centrality of the Shemah – the Oneness of Israel’s God, informed Paul’s theology when he wrote that in Christ-following assemblies there was no place for segregation or discrimination:

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:28)

In 1 Corinthians 11:5, he wrote that a woman’s head must be covered while she is engaged in speaking in tongues or prophesying in a public assembly. The question was not, therefore, if a woman could speak and teach, but how it should be done in a way that would be right before God, angels and the people of Corinth.

When we read Paul’s letters we need to keep in mind that 1 Corinthians was not the beginning of this correspondence. Paul wrote at least one letter to the Corinthians prior to this (1 Cor. 5:9) and the Corinthian leadership had also written to him (1 Cor. 7:1). It is therefore highly probable that the statement in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 is a quotation from a letter that the Corinthian male leadership had addressed to Paul. It was their proposal on how to bring order into the disruptive practice of some women in the congregation as they spoke in tongues and prophesied. Paul, however, disagreed.

If this text is viewed as a quotation, then the challenge in 1 Cor. 14:36 that Paul brings to the male leadership makes perfect sense:

“Was it from you (masculine) that the word of God first went forth?! Or has it come to you (masculine) only?!”

The all-male leadership of the Corinthian congregation was not to forbid (women) to speak in tongues and themselves were to be encouraged to prophecy just as the women among them already were doing:

“Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.” (1 Cor. 14:39-40)

Paul’s solution, therefore, was not to exclude half of the congregation from exercising the gifts of the Spirit, but rather to make sure that it was done in a respectful, proper and orderly fashion.

Was Paul right about women? Absolutely! His Corinthian opponents were not.

2

 

[JesusIs4Me]

The bible does not tell women to keep silent in church. The scriptures you quoted are wildly out of context and also it is NOT written in the law. You should do a study on it instead of going by silly churchianity. The thing is pure blat...I've posted this before....


In 1 Cor. 14:34 the Apostle Paul’s letter states: “…the women should keep silent in the assemblies. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.” There are several major problems with this statement.

First, nowhere does the Jewish Law forbid women to speak in public gatherings. Paul, being a well-educated Jew, certainly would have known this. In fact, there was a law on the books that did forbid women to speak, vote and exercise authority over men by holding public office. It was not a Jewish, but a Roman law. These words would sound far more credible if someone else, other than the Jewish Apostle Paul, had written them.

Although this was before the laws for the nation of Israel, Israel knew of this law from the fall of man as given in Genesis 3rd chapter.

Second, on numerous occasions throughout his travels and letters, the Apostle Paul affirmed the ministry of women (Rom 16:3-4; 1 Cor. 16:19; cf. Acts 16:11-40; 18:26). The centrality of the Shemah – the Oneness of Israel’s God, informed Paul’s theology when he wrote that in Christ-following assemblies there was no place for segregation or discrimination:

Paul affirms the ministry of women in outreach; not as teachers or preachers in the assembly. You would be hard pressed to find any scripture testifying otherwise.

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:28)

And yet the head of a woman is the man and the head of the man is Christ and the head of Christ is God. Just as the Father's will be done, and the Son & the Holy Spirit are in agreement in submission, and yet the Three are co equal as God.

In 1 Corinthians 11:5, he wrote that a woman’s head must be covered while she is engaged in speaking in tongues or prophesying in a public assembly. The question was not, therefore, if a woman could speak and teach, but how it should be done in a way that would be right before God, angels and the people of Corinth.

Understanding where Paul stand on the issue, is why a woman in outward ministry should not have her head uncovered when praying or prophesying. Although he does not say it there plainly in that particular chapter, since Paul cited the commandment of the Lord twice ; one being in that same epistle later on and again in the first letter to Timothy, there is no other way to apply that section of scripture from that epistle.

When we read Paul’s letters we need to keep in mind that 1 Corinthians was not the beginning of this correspondence. Paul wrote at least one letter to the Corinthians prior to this (1 Cor. 5:9) and the Corinthian leadership had also written to him (1 Cor. 7:1). It is therefore highly probable that the statement in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 is a quotation from a letter that the Corinthian male leadership had addressed to Paul. It was their proposal on how to bring order into the disruptive practice of some women in the congregation as they spoke in tongues and prophesied. Paul, however, disagreed.

If this text is viewed as a quotation, then the challenge in 1 Cor. 14:36 that Paul brings to the male leadership makes perfect sense:

“Was it from you (masculine) that the word of God first went forth?! Or has it come to you (masculine) only?!”

The all-male leadership of the Corinthian congregation was not to forbid (women) to speak in tongues and themselves were to be encouraged to prophecy just as the women among them already were doing:

“Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.” (1 Cor. 14:39-40)

Paul’s solution, therefore, was not to exclude half of the congregation from exercising the gifts of the Spirit, but rather to make sure that it was done in a respectful, proper and orderly fashion.

Was Paul right about women? Absolutely! His Corinthian opponents were not.

2[/QUOTE]

You are forgetting Paul's first letter to Timothy and so you have to discern and apply his words accordingly, regardless of how hard it seems or foreign since the churches have become ignorant in these latter days.

1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

So that is why I cannot agree with your application of Paul's words in Corinthians, because Paul's words as above in 1 Timothy 2:11-15 , plainly shows why you are reading more into the scripture for why women are to be silent in church when it is obviously plainly written for them to do so.

At any rate, the churches today are mainly ignorant of God's commandment and so as per Paul's words, I shall let them continue to be ignorant. Signs of the times. The Bridegroom shall be coming soon.

 

[Bendito]

Although this was before the laws for the nation of Israel, Israel knew of this law from the fall of man as given in Genesis 3rd chapter.



Paul affirms the ministry of women in outreach; not as teachers or preachers in the assembly. You would be hard pressed to find any scripture testifying otherwise.



And yet the head of a woman is the man and the head of the man is Christ and the head of Christ is God. Just as the Father's will be done, and the Son & the Holy Spirit are in agreement in submission, and yet the Three are co equal as God.



Understanding where Paul stand on the issue, is why a woman in outward ministry should not have her head uncovered when praying or prophesying. Although he does not say it there plainly in that particular chapter, since Paul cited the commandment of the Lord twice ; one being in that same epistle later on and again in the first letter to Timothy, there is no other way to apply that section of scripture from that epistle.

When we read Paul’s letters we need to keep in mind that 1 Corinthians was not the beginning of this correspondence. Paul wrote at least one letter to the Corinthians prior to this (1 Cor. 5:9) and the Corinthian leadership had also written to him (1 Cor. 7:1). It is therefore highly probable that the statement in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 is a quotation from a letter that the Corinthian male leadership had addressed to Paul. It was their proposal on how to bring order into the disruptive practice of some women in the congregation as they spoke in tongues and prophesied. Paul, however, disagreed.

If this text is viewed as a quotation, then the challenge in 1 Cor. 14:36 that Paul brings to the male leadership makes perfect sense:

“Was it from you (masculine) that the word of God first went forth?! Or has it come to you (masculine) only?!”

The all-male leadership of the Corinthian congregation was not to forbid (women) to speak in tongues and themselves were to be encouraged to prophecy just as the women among them already were doing:

“Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.” (1 Cor. 14:39-40)

Paul’s solution, therefore, was not to exclude half of the congregation from exercising the gifts of the Spirit, but rather to make sure that it was done in a respectful, proper and orderly fashion.

Was Paul right about women? Absolutely! His Corinthian opponents were not.

2

You are forgetting Paul's first letter to Timothy and so you have to discern and apply his words accordingly, regardless of how hard it seems or foreign since the churches have become ignorant in these latter days.

1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

So that is why I cannot agree with your application of Paul's words in Corinthians, because Paul's words as above in 1 Timothy 2:11-15 , plainly shows why you are reading more into the scripture for why women are to be silent in church when it is obviously plainly written for them to do so.

At any rate, the churches today are mainly ignorant of God's commandment and so as per Paul's words, I shall let them continue to be ignorant. Signs of the times. The Bridegroom shall be coming soon.[/QUOTE]
Oh...I understand...You're one of those Christian men who like to keep women subservient to you. Even though the Word says otherwise. Its plain that you didn't read my post above with a mind to hear. All you did was read it, if you read it at all with the intent of forming arguments against it. Ok. Have it your own way. Again...Be right if you wish. Even when you're wrong. I'm done discussing this with you.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

I'm done discussing this with you.

Then we agree to disagree.

 

[Bendito]

Then we agree to disagree.

Actually I strongly suggest you do your "study" again. And keep your verses in context. Both scriptures, for the context you may have to go back two chapters and start there. 'See who is talking, what is happening etc. In both instances you will see Paul repeat a question/statement and answer it. He did not say for women to keep silent. So if you disagree you're not disagreeing with me, but the Word itself. Now I'm done.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

When we read Paul’s letters we need to keep in mind that 1 Corinthians was not the beginning of this correspondence. Paul wrote at least one letter to the Corinthians prior to this (1 Cor. 5:9) and the Corinthian leadership had also written to him (1 Cor. 7:1). It is therefore highly probable that the statement in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 is a quotation from a letter that the Corinthian male leadership had addressed to Paul. It was their proposal on how to bring order into the disruptive practice of some women in the congregation as they spoke in tongues and prophesied. Paul, however, disagreed.

If this text is viewed as a quotation, then the challenge in 1 Cor. 14:36 that Paul brings to the male leadership makes perfect sense:

“Was it from you (masculine) that the word of God first went forth?! Or has it come to you (masculine) only?!”

The all-male leadership of the Corinthian congregation was not to forbid (women) to speak in tongues and themselves were to be encouraged to prophecy just as the women among them already were doing:

“Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.” (1 Cor. 14:39-40)

Paul’s solution, therefore, was not to exclude half of the congregation from exercising the gifts of the Spirit, but rather to make sure that it was done in a respectful, proper and orderly fashion.

Was Paul right about women? Absolutely! His Corinthian opponents were not.

@Bendito

Going over your message again for why I had read it and explained why it cannot be as you say it means in more detail for why I believe you are reading outside the context of the message Paul is giving. Let us read the part that reproves your application.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

That is Paul talking about women NOT to speak in the church. There is no way around it.

If his position in that message is not any clearer then read Paul's first letter to Timothy so you can by Him, discern and apply his words accordingly, since it was not the male leadership bringing this attention about the women to Paul, but Paul stating the Lord's commandment.

1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

If we compare with the rest of Paul's message to the Corinthians on the subject...

1 Corinthians 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Paul stated that in light of the fact stated in his letter to Timothy because Adam was told not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil before Eve was created for him. That was why he stated that in 1 Corinthians 14:36 because Adam heard the commandment directly from the Lord and Adam told Eve His commandment afterwards. It was why Satan tempted Eve because dam heard it from the Lord and so he would not have doubted what the Lord had said, but Eve would. So the word of God came out from men as it came unto only men in the beginning.

So that is why I cannot agree with your application of Paul's words in Corinthians, because Paul's words as above in 1 Timothy 2:11-15 , plainly shows why you are reading more into the scripture for why women are to be silent in church when it is obviously plainly written for them to do so.

At any rate, the churches today are mainly ignorant of God's commandment and so as per Paul's words, and by His help, I shall let them be ignorant. Signs of the times. The Bridegroom shall be coming soon.

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito

Going over your message again for why I had read it and explained why it cannot be as you say it means in more detail for why I believe you are reading outside the context of the message Paul is giving. Let us read the part that reproves your application.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

That is Paul talking about women NOT to speak in the church. There is no way around it.

If his position in that message is not any clearer then read Paul's first letter to Timothy so you can by Him, discern and apply his words accordingly, since it was not the male leadership bringing this attention about the women to Paul, but Paul stating the Lord's commandment.

1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

If we compare with the rest of Paul's message to the Corinthians on the subject...

1 Corinthians 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Paul stated that in light of the fact stated in his letter to Timothy because Adam was told not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil before Eve was created for him. That was why he stated that in 1 Corinthians 14:36 because Adam heard the commandment directly from the Lord and Adam told Eve His commandment afterwards. It was why Satan tempted Eve because dam heard it from the Lord and so he would not have doubted what the Lord had said, but Eve would. So the word of God came out from men as it came unto only men in the beginning.

So that is why I cannot agree with your application of Paul's words in Corinthians, because Paul's words as above in 1 Timothy 2:11-15 , plainly shows why you are reading more into the scripture for why women are to be silent in church when it is obviously plainly written for them to do so.

At any rate, the churches today are mainly ignorant of God's commandment and so as per Paul's words, and by His help, I shall let them be ignorant. Signs of the times. The Bridegroom shall be coming soon.

My friend I told you that you need to find the context of the thing. Your stubborn self is blocking you from learning the Word! 1 Timothy 2 reference one MUST start at Chapter 1:1 to see the context. What was happening? What was being discussed. As in, Paul was answering questions...1 Timmy 2: 11-12 was one of the questions. One of the leaders said that, Paul repeated the statement and then answered it. Without context there is no way we can understand what is being said or talked about. And you know, a text without a context is a pretext....a lie.

My friend,CONTEXT In this case, as with many other places in the bible, the context is not two verses before and Marne one after. Back up. Chapter 1. Paul comes to Corinth Nondenominational Church. He addresses a few problems. Whom do we follow. They were divided over that. Sexual sin among them I dealt with. Then the taking of the brethren to secular courts. Don't do that! Chapter 7. Oh wow! you guys do have a lot of questions, don't you? Paul starts answering questions. Husband wife relationship. Single peoples problems with uh. Lbido. Eating of food sacrificed. And so on. He looks at the questions. Some he answers directly and others he repeats the question then answers. So look at the question here he is... Speaking about tongues, and I believe the question caught his eye and he reacted to it. "women need to shut up in church. Just like the Torah says". Guess what my friend. That was not Paul speaking there. He simply read the question. Paul was a very learned man. He KNEW the Torah and he would never have said that the Torah said women should keep quiet. Why? Simply. The Torah says no sub thing! Then Paul answers the man vs 36. Then he returns to his previous topic to finish it. So you see Paul does not forbid women to preach, teach, or anything else. Back to the other verse quoted on this this thread. There is neither male nor female... All are equal
Again....A text without a context is a pretext....Its a lie!

 

[Bendito]

In 1 Cor. 14:34 the Apostle Paul’s letter states: “…the women should keep silent in the assemblies. For they are not permitted to speak but should be in submission, as the Law also says.” There are several major problems with this statement.

First, nowhere does the Jewish Law forbid women to speak in public gatherings. Paul, being a well-educated Jew, certainly would have known this. In fact, there was a law on the books that did forbid women to speak, vote and exercise authority over men by holding public office. It was not a Jewish, but a Roman law. These words would sound far more credible if someone else, other than the Jewish Apostle Paul, had written them.

Second, on numerous occasions throughout his travels and letters, the Apostle Paul affirmed the ministry of women (Rom 16:3-4; 1 Cor. 16:19; cf. Acts 16:11-40; 18:26). The centrality of the Shemah – the Oneness of Israel’s God, informed Paul’s theology when he wrote that in Christ-following assemblies there was no place for segregation or discrimination: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:28)

In 1 Corinthians 11:5, he wrote that a woman’s head must be covered while she is engaged in speaking in tongues or prophesying in a public assembly. The question was not, therefore, if a woman could speak and teach, but how it should be done in a way that would be right before God, angels and the people of Corinth.

When we read Paul’s letters we need to keep in mind that 1 Corinthians was not the beginning of this correspondence. Paul wrote at least one letter to the Corinthians prior to this (1 Cor. 5:9) and the Corinthian leadership had also written to him (1 Cor. 7:1). It is therefore highly probable that the statement in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 is a quotation from a letter that the Corinthian male leadership had addressed to Paul. It was their proposal on how to bring order into the disruptive practice of some women in the congregation as they spoke in tongues and prophesied. Paul, however, disagreed.

If this text is viewed as a quotation, then the challenge in 1 Cor. 14:36 that Paul brings to the male leadership makes perfect sense:

“Was it from you (masculine) that the word of God first went forth?! Or has it come to you (masculine) only?!”

The all-male leadership of the Corinthian congregation was not to forbid (women) to speak in tongues and themselves were to be encouraged to prophesy just as the women among them already were doing:

“Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy and do not forbid to speak in tongues. But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.” (1 Cor. 14:39-40)

Paul’s solution, therefore, was not to exclude half of the congregation from exercising the gifts of the Spirit, but rather to make sure that it was done in a respectful, proper and orderly fashion.

Was Paul right about women? Absolutely! His Corinthian opponents were not.

 

[oldhermit]

Actually I strongly suggest you do your "study" again. And keep your verses in context. Both scriptures, for the context you may have to go back two chapters and start there. 'See who is talking, what is happening etc. In both instances you will see Paul repeat a question/statement and answer it. He did not say for women to keep silent. So if you disagree you're not disagreeing with me, but the Word itself. Now I'm done.

You seemed to be concerned about context regarding this particular text and you suggest that Bendito is not properly contextualizing these verses. Perhaps you could explain the context to us so that we can correct any misconceptions we may have of 1Cor 14 and 1 Tim 2.

 

[Bendito]

You seemed to be concerned about context regarding this particular text and you suggest that Bendito is not properly contextualizing these verses. Perhaps you could explain the context to us so that we can correct any misconceptions we may have of 1Cor 14 and 1 Tim 2.

Start at 1 Cor 1 Paul teaches a bit. Then he "looks at his watch and says he has time to answer some questions" Then he starts...with some questions he repeats the question, some he simply answers and others he repeats what the person said, then answers it...Just like you might do. 1 Cor 14 Paul was talking in 'Responsa' Which means he was answering questions...Read from Chapter 1! LOL One of the questions was about women keeping silent in the church...Paul repeated the 'question', actually the mans statement, and answered it below...
He said "36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or is endowed with the Spirit, let him acknowledge that what I am writing you is a command of the Lord. 38 But if someone doesn’t recognize this, then let him remain unrecognized."

Remember...A text without a context is a pretext....Its a lie.

 

[oldhermit]

Start at 1 Cor 1 Paul teaches a bit. Then he "looks at his watch and says he has time to answer some questions" Then he starts...with some questions he repeats the question, some he simply answers and others he repeats what the person said, then answers it...Just like you might do. 1 Cor 14 Paul was talking in 'Responsa' Which means he was answering questions...Read from Chapter 1! LOL One of the questions was about women keeping silent in the church...Paul repeated the 'question', actually the mans statement, and answered it below...
He said "36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or is endowed with the Spirit, let him acknowledge that what I am writing you is a command of the Lord. 38 But if someone doesn’t recognize this, then let him remain unrecognized."

Remember...A text without a context is a pretext....Its a lie.

The overall context of chapter 14 is conduct in the assembly for men as well as women.

 

[Bendito]

The overall context of chapter 14 is conduct in the assembly for men as well as women.

Start at chapter 1

 

[oldhermit]

Start at chapter 1

The preceding chapter do not change the context of chapter 14. I can outline the context if you like.

 

[Bendito]

The preceding chapter do not change the context of chapter 14. I can outline the context if you like.

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all argument, and which cannot fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance.

That principle is condemnation before investigation.

Edmund Spencer.

 

[oldhermit]

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all argument, and which cannot fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance.

That principle is condemnation before investigation.

Edmund Spencer.

So, is that a yes or a no.

 

[Bendito]

So, is that a yes or a no.

You asked a question? Ok. You can outline the context if you like.