Why isnt hell discussed as much as love is?

[PloughBoy]

I don’t care what anyone says, I’m not going to be in the “oops” zone! I going to live like there is a Hell and a lake of Fire! Now that is what a call perfect “LOVE”. Pay good attention to that “But” word! That means you pause when you say “But”!

American Standard Version
There is no fear in love: but perfect love casteth out fear, because fear hath punishment; and he that feareth is not made perfect in love.

 

[PloughBoy]

(Hebrews 12:29)

our God is a consuming fire.

 

[Sue D.]

Don't take this the wrong way, but in all honesty I feel you have absolutely no clue about how good God is.

Nobody, can in fact grasp the workings of a being who defines Himself as LIGHT with NO DARKNESS in Him AT ALL 1 John 1:5.

As such it would be wise to err in this direction in every instance of the vastly unknown future.

How do you know it will be horrendous? Show me the scripture you alluding to.

There are only one or two scriptures that state what exactly happens in hell and none of them teach '''horrendous'' things. I am being pedantic Sue, you / we need to clarify exactly what scripture says. I am so tired of people lying about hell.

Luke 13:28 says people weep and gnash their teeth because they look up and see they are cast out. Is that the kind of '''''horrendous'''''''thing you are alluding to?

Why do you keep saying this? Please stay on topic.

And How could I possibly take That comment the 'wrong' way?!

And You, pretty much refuse to acknowledge how horrible hell is now for those non-believers who are there - their physical bodies are dead - their spirit is very much alive. And those people will eventually be thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone. And you brush off the description of hell like it's no big deal. The rich man who was there was wanting Someone / Anyone to go to his brothers and Warn them to stop their evil way of life and turn to God.

They are weeping and gnashing their teeth Matt 8:12 talks about utter darkness. Have you ever experienced Total darkness. Can't see your hand right in front of your face. I have. And years ago there was a Cave in Iowa -- was a tourist attraction. Underground ice crystals were all over the place. Beautiful. There were handrails with a path that everyone followed with a tourist guide. And there was also a gift shop. At one point when we were deep down inside those caves, the guide told us that in a moment -- all the lights would be turned off for 30 seconds. We were to hold on to whatever was right next to us. There were always lots of people on those tours -- but when those lights were turned off -- it was Total BLACK -- those 30-seconds seemed like Forever. And when they were turned back on -- it was even more beautiful than it Had been.

I suspect it might have been a Christian organization that ran the tourist attraction. But the Point was that Total darkness is horrible -- We had something to hang on to. We had the opportunity to leave and get back up to 'society'.

In hell -- non-believers think it will be a picnic -- no believers around to spoil their fun. They can party and have a blast -- no God around to spoil everything. But they don't realize that God Is Truly the light of this world. Without Him -- there is NO LIGHT. Total darkness. And it last Forever. And a person combines that with the future lake of fire and brimstone. That being the Real environment Forever -- it would be a lot like living in a bbq pit. Live hot coals. And, yes , I Have researched all of it.

All of this is in Scripture. And I probably wouldn't be wanting to hear about it, Either. And, Scripture Also tells us that it's only Meant for satan, the beast and the false prophet. And They will be suffering in that environment For Ever. They deserve it. God -- because of His love For us -- has given Everyone a way to stay Out of that horrible environment. It's by accepting the shed blood of Christ on the cross of Calvary. A person acknowledging their own sinfulness and that the shed blood of Christ is sufficient to cleans us from our unrighteousness. We accept Jesus Christ as our personal Savior and thank Him For His gift of salvation. And Then we will experience a wonderful peacefullness that has never been there before. And That is because the Holy Spirit is 'now' indwelling us.

Why do I keep saying this? Why Shouldn't it be shared. It goes right along With the topic.

Unless you're one of the people who believes that a person will be burned up and won't have to suffer for very long. In Real life -- in a fire -- a person usually dies of smoke inhalation Long before the fire actually gets to them.
Not really much suffering at all. Except for breathing all that junk into your lungs as you're dying. But people who've been rescued From fires Do tend to have lung problems for a Long time after that. And they Probably suffer from PTSD because of the circumstances surrounding the fire. Some kind of accident has caused the fire. And a person gets to have bad dreams about the mess and it Does affect a person in very negative ways.

But we're talking about a situation that's Meant to be horrible -- punishment for the three entities - satan - and whomever the beast and false prophet end up being. They will have been Purposely misleading / Lying to people about God / eternity. Everything. Getting people to end up in those horrifying conditions on Purpose. Because They know that there is a wonderful eternity with God and heaven that will Also last Forever and They can't be part of it.

Anyway -- sharing something for 'you' to think about.

 

[PloughBoy]

Now if GOD created “Light” where was HE, when He created it? “KingJ”

And if He created “Darkness” where was HE, “standing”!


He did say: He created light and darkness!

He did say He would dwell in darkness!

12Then spake Solomon, Jehovah hath said that he would dwell in the thick darkness. (1 Kings 8).

you said this to “Sue”

Nobody, can in fact grasp the workings of a being who defines Himself as LIGHT with NO DARKNESS in Him AT ALL 1 John 1:5.

She already knows by her conversations that; “a finite mind Cannot comprehend the incomprehensible of a infinite Being”
So in by statement of darkness and light, I’m trying to create a “paradox “? Of course not! Just read between the lines! I am on “Sue” side! Shalom. My brother in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[KingJ]

And You, pretty much refuse to acknowledge how horrible hell is now for those non-believers who are there - their physical bodies are dead - their spirit is very much alive.

Please quote scripture that makes you think hell is horrendous.

And those people will eventually be thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone. And you brush off the description of hell like it's no big deal. The rich man who was there was wanting Someone / Anyone to go to his brothers and Warn them to stop their evil way of life and turn to God.

The rich man was not in eternal hell. He was in Hades, a waiting place. It would be possible I guess that in such a place demons run amok and controls over the facility not be properly in place.

They are weeping and gnashing their teeth

I quoted Luke 13:28 in my post above. If you read the whole verse you will note the reason they ''weep and gnash their teeth''. Regret. They look up and see a good God with repentant sinners. They look sideways and see demons and unrepentant sinners.

Matt 8:12 talks about utter darkness.

As does John 3:19. John 3:19 is a verse that actually describes darkness according to God's terminology. It says people love the darkness because their deeds are evil. So, darkness is simply the word God uses to describe a place where evil is. I take that as its meaning until someone can show me a scripture that has a different explanation of 'darkness'.

Have you ever experienced Total darkness. Can't see your hand right in front of your face. I have. And years ago there was a Cave in Iowa -- was a tourist attraction. Underground ice crystals were all over the place. Beautiful. There were handrails with a path that everyone followed with a tourist guide. And there was also a gift shop. At one point when we were deep down inside those caves, the guide told us that in a moment -- all the lights would be turned off for 30 seconds. We were to hold on to whatever was right next to us. There were always lots of people on those tours -- but when those lights were turned off -- it was Total BLACK -- those 30-seconds seemed like Forever. And when they were turned back on -- it was even more beautiful than it Had been.

This is a classic example of the exact reason I am so upset with Christians miss-representing hell. You seem to think your opinion, experience and bad dreams are valid references for hell.

In hell -- non-believers think it will be a picnic -- no believers around to spoil their fun. They can party and have a blast -- no God around to spoil everything. But they don't realize that God Is Truly the light of this world. Without Him -- there is NO LIGHT. Total darkness. And it last Forever. And a person combines that with the future lake of fire and brimstone. That being the Real environment Forever -- it would be a lot like living in a bbq pit. Live hot coals.

Please quote scripture.

And, yes , I Have researched all of it.

Many like to think they have. You need to research the Creator of hell ''before'' you state facts from some research of a vastly unknown 'creation'.

And Then we will experience a wonderful peacefullness that has never been there before. And That is because the Holy Spirit is 'now' indwelling us.

You would be at peace in heaven with a belief that your God is burning people alive in fire for all eternity?

Imagine it being your child that you love so much. They 'just' don't make the cut. We know there is a fine line! 1 Pet 4:18 is crystal clear on that. So, you believe the difference between someone who '''just''' makes it into heaven over someone who ''just'' doesn't make it is eternal burning in fire and with that in mind you will be at peace in heaven for all eternity.

Unless you're one of the people who believes that a person will be burned up and won't have to suffer for very long.

The bible says eternal. God is a good God who gives true free will to all. What is true free will if rejection of God is literal death? Annihilation fails terribly on a logical argument. But granted it is a better belief over eternal torture.

In Real life -- in a fire -- a person usually dies of smoke inhalation Long before the fire actually gets to them. Not really much suffering at all. Except for breathing all that junk into your lungs as you're dying. But people who've been rescued From fires Do tend to have lung problems for a Long time after that. And they Probably suffer from PTSD because of the circumstances surrounding the fire. Some kind of accident has caused the fire. And a person gets to have bad dreams about the mess and it Does affect a person in very negative ways.

Yes, correct. I have explained death by fire here many times in defense of what God did to citizens of Sodom. It was certainly not an act cruelty. It was a necessary removal of wicked, done lovingly and mercifully. I feel you will be agreeing with me on hell soon if you continue to acknowledge facts like this with respect to God's wrath.

But we're talking about a situation that's Meant to be horrible -- punishment for the three entities - satan - and whomever the beast and false prophet end up being. They will have been Purposely misleading / Lying to people about God / eternity. Everything. Getting people to end up in those horrifying conditions on Purpose. Because They know that there is a wonderful eternity with God and heaven that will Also last Forever and They can't be part of it.

Please stop making assumptions. Quote scripture.

If you want to discuss logic. Consider this.

1. The devils know what is coming. Yet they chose to fall from grace despite having that fore-knowledge.
2. Not once has the devil ever accused God of what is coming being too harsh or unfair.

Can you imagine a Christian having a chance to speak to Nero before Nero throws them on pikes. Do you think their conversation will be like the one the devil had with Jesus in the wilderness. Do you think Nero would honor the request of any Christian as Jesus did with demons when they asked to enter swine?

3. What Christian who is told by God to love their enemies Matt 5:44 would ever consider eternal horrendous fire as a fitting punishment?
4. God would be a hypocrite if He does something to His enemy, that we Christians with His renewed mind would never do! God is not a hypocrite. Fact.

 

[Curtis]

The "fear" of going to Hell is not a good "come to Jesus moment" reason. The right reason for coming to the Lord is in discovering you are a sinner and you need a savior, who just happens as a "benefit" of changing your destination from Hell, to Heaven!

It is the mercy, and kindness of God that leads a person to repentance, not the fear of going to Hell! (Romans 2:4)

 

[KingJ]

Now if GOD created “Light” where was HE, when He created it? “KingJ”

1 John 1:5 uses light in contrast to darkness. John 3:19 links darkness to evil. No offence, but your question is irrelevant to the verse and topic.

 

[Sue D.]

I won't be continuing in this conversation. It's pointless.

 

[KingJ]

I won't be continuing in this conversation. It's pointless.

I find this statement hilarious. You said you have studied the topic at length and yet your contribution here is 99% opinion and two scriptures quoted out of their context. Manipulated to suit your opinion which is likely based off of some film or un-scriptural book you read.

 

[Sue D.]

@KingJ -- Wow -- lands sakes. I was just sharing with a moderator about you and my frustrations.

You are choosing to downplay Any Scriptures about hell and lake of fire and brimstone. And That can be dangerous. It IS dangerous.

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ -- Wow -- lands sakes. I was just sharing with a moderator about you and my frustrations.
You are choosing to downplay Any Scriptures about hell and lake of fire and brimstone. And That can be dangerous. It IS dangerous.

I don't downplay any scripture. I try read them in there correct context and avoid all assumptions.

Hell is a terrible place, fact. God does not call it a lake of fire because it is a nice place. This however does not mean God is now guilty of evil or torture.

A 'lazy' person cherry picks 'fire', 'darkness' and 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' and teaches hell falsely. They seem to simply not care about the fact that they are tainting God. Just a shockingly lazy Christian. There are sadly so many of them.

Someone who takes their Christian responsibility of properly representing God to the lost seriously, does a full synopsis and would never be caught dead using a few cherry picked scriptures to teach the A - Z of hell.

That is why I said in the beginning of this thread, many should keep quiet. We should be ''TERRIFIED'' of miss-representing God on a topic like hell. But many are not. Many think it is fine to leave the reader with the worst possible assumptions of God. Such a person is an enemy of the cross.

So, if you cannot properly discuss the sensitive topic of how God treats His enemy, yes, please do leave.

 

[Sue D.]

KingJ -- I am most certainly NOT an enemy of the cross. The blood of Jesus Christ that was shed on the cross and His bodily resurrection from the dead is our Only salvation.

 

[PloughBoy]

Don’t argue with them“Sue”.
I have listen, neither am I a “prophet” or “Seer” and God forbid, roaming in the field of “clairvoyance”. They have no idea what the English word “hell” even means as it roams through out the “Biblical text”. Mostly likely they pick up the definition from some pagan dictionary definition, “with the title I know”. Or some “jack legged” bible dictionary”! With a “Long John Silver” commentary as a witness, with a little hint of flavor of a “motivational speaker” that said go! Then they “jump”! But it seems like, they really do not have the right stuff in their “jump pack”! Let’s see.
Concerning “biblical words” as they are place in the text of the Bible, for explanation of the term, did you use “international standard bible encyclopedia”? Then right after that , did you look up the OT word “hell” in the “Browns-Drivers-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon”. Then right after that did you use a “Englishmen and Hebrew Concordance. And track down the verses in how they were used in the text.
Then after that did you look the word “hell” up in the “Thayers Greek English Lexicon of the NT”word”hell” then look the word “hell” up in “vine’s” Expository Dictionary of New Testament words” then are that did you explore those words in the “Englishman- Greek concordance of the NT”. Now you have arrived to your conclusion of the “term” or English word “hell” and how it is used through out the whole Biblical text. Do you stop there, of course not! you still have to go on. ”The deep-ness” of GOD’s Word.

New American Standard Bible
Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!
We have just only starch the surface of the word “hell” oh yes, I know most likely you are saying we don’t need all of that! Evidently you do, jumping out there. You gave a list of your refute of “hell” in her description. So let us continue our “preliminary investigation “ of the “biblical “ English word “Hell”. Since we now know what “the English word “hell” means in the “Orginal Text”. That was written on the “Papyrus”.

now let us see, what the “Biblical scholars” and “Theologians“ the ones who given us “The Translated” Biblical text in which we hold in our hands today! So what has, they said about “Hell” !starting off with “Flavius Josephus” the jewish historian, then let’s speak to these men what they have written about “Hell” concerning the text, since most of them where gifted by GOD to read the original text,
“Aurelius Augustine”, Martin Luther, John Calvin, William Tyndale, John Knox, William Farel, , john Hux, John Wycliffe, Athanasius, “Polycarp”. Let us not forget, “Jonathan Edwards” sermon, “Sinners in the Hands of a Angry God”! And “Jesus came to save us from the wrath of GOD! And I do believe, Sue” stands in their camp on this one! Now you can come to a good conclusion about the term “hell” in the New Testament and the Old Testament.
Now you have done a proper “Exhausted Study” of a “ biblical Word and term. Yes it takes all of that! If you are “serious”! “Shalom”.

 

[Curtis]

Don’t argue with them“Sue”.
I have listen, neither am I a “prophet” or “Seer” and God forbid, roaming in the field of “clairvoyance”.

If you look at all the members who are online at any given time you will see there are just a handful of members who participate in the discussions. Like right now there are only 9 members participating but over 460 guests who are reading what is being discussed. It is all these other "guests" who are being reached, even though some here will not listen no matter what you say. You have to defend the Gospel at every turn!

 

[Sue D.]

@Curtis -- yes, the Gospel Does have to be defended.

 

[PloughBoy]

English Standard Version
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? (Matt.3)

who’s Wrath?

 

[I love the Lord]

Jesus talked about hell more than any other person in the Bible. He talked about hell more than he did heaven and described it more vividly so why are we not discussing it as much as Jesus?

Because the church have many times fallen, trying to go mainstream, trying not to offend, trying to give people what they want to hear, (that is straight from hell), trying to get members.

LLate David Wilkerson talks about this. So does late Derek Prince.

People view hell as offensive.
People, Christians, deny hell.
Yet jesus warned about it.

BBecause of the church and we as Christians have compromized, people and the church are perished.

 

[Niki-]

Jesus told us of what we need to know and be aware of but its our duty to have more people follow God and be saved by him. God doesnt want us to love him through mainly fear of what he will do to us if we dont. God wants us to know him and love him through the true love that he has for us.

 

[I love the Lord]

Yes that's true, but we can't leave out the consequences either or we won't preach a whole gospel, and
That's not gonna help them in the long run

 

[I love the Lord]

Like late Derek Prince said, and late David Wilkerson, that many churches and preachers today don't tell people about hell, for different reasons, one is the antichrist spirit prevent them to, one is people doubt hell or don't want to hear it, etc. But it's essential, with the rest.