Will people go to hell? What does the Bible say?

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all,

there has been discussion on other threads regarding hell and if people go to hell or not.

It has been raised that the Bible does not say that people will go to hell, which flies in the face of what most people think.

The purpose of this thread is to look at what the Scripture says regarding this topic. Most definitely, we have Scripture and it is to there that we should look and not to what either we might think or what we hear.

Post in Peace, God's peace, that will both keep your hearts and minds, and that also passes all understanding


Bless you ....><>

Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be apparent to all. The Lord is near.

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Philippians 4:4-7

 

[Butch5]

Greetings all,

there has been discussion on other threads regarding hell and if people go to hell or not.

It has been raised that the Bible does not say that people will go to hell, which flies in the face of what most people think.

The purpose of this thread is to look at what the Scripture says regarding this topic. Most definitely, we have Scripture and it is to there that we should look and not to what either we might think or what we hear.

Post in Peace, God's peace, that will both keep your hearts and minds, and that also passes all understanding


Bless you ....><>

Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be apparent to all. The Lord is near.

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Philippians 4:4-7

For the sake of confusion can yo define what you mean by hell? The KJV uses the word hell to describe three different Greek words, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus. Hades is usually translated, the grave. Gehenna is where the wicked will be thrown. I believe the case can be made this is the Lake of Fire. Tartarus is a place for fallen angels.

 

[Br. Bear]

For the sake of confusion can yo define what you mean by hell? The KJV uses the word hell to describe three different Greek words, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus. Hades is usually translated, the grave. Gehenna is where the wicked will be thrown. I believe the case can be made this is the Lake of Fire. Tartarus is a place for fallen angels.

Greetings,

I think you have already started the process of defining. Keep it up because this is what the thread is about.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greetings

Scripture has an habit of catching us out, sometimes it is because someone else has made comments that don't fit what we think, sometimes it is the Holy Spirit that is speaking and revealing a Truth, there are many other ways that this can happen but, if we slam the door because what has been said, with scripture quoted, doesn't fit what we think at the time, we could be slamming the door in the face of the Holy Spirit.

I believe we are all like sheep, not just the lost souls following sin, the world and the devil, but also saved ones, the main difference here being lost souls do not have a shepherd, saved ones do, it is Jesus. So as saved souls, following Jesus, one would think we all believe the same thing, wouldn't it be nice if we did? RCC follow Catholic teaching, Protestants follow protestant teaching, Baptists and others follow the ways of their denominations. What I am trying to say here, though maybe not clearly enough, is we all have a tendancy to follow others, when Jesus called us sheep He certainly understood us more than we understand ourselves, He gave us the best example possible for mankind, we are like 'Sheep'.

Many go to places of worship every week, listen to a few reading, listen to a sermon, and that's it for the next seven days. Unless we pray and search the scriptures ourselves, we fall into a sheep pen and it happens without us even realising it. But those of us who read scriptures, pray and study daily, there are many on here that do, Praise the Lord, but we too can fall into a similar trap, we are spiritually mature, knowing we have a good understanding, and that understanding becomes etched into us, it is the foundation of faith as we seek to learn more. I believe it is so easy to put ourselves into 'another sheep pen', we don't like it when someone says something that rocks the boat of our, foundational beliefs. But surely if another brother or sister raises a point and quotes scripture, that may appear to be wrong, should we not compare scripture with scripture together and in doing so 'The Truth' in 'The Word' will eventually be revealed.

How sad it would be, as said earlier, if in these end times, we didn't listen to scripture and compare, but instead slammed the door in the face of the Holy Spirit. The Truth in God's Word is revealed over time, prophesies are fulfilled over time, surely we must always have an open heart and an open mind to 'The Word' and discuss the differences from scripture in love.

Luke 12:2 (NKJV)
For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known.

Mark 4:22 (NKJV)
For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light.

1 John 3:2-3 (NKJV)
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Ephesians 4:2-3 (NIV2011)
Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.
Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

Posted in Love

 

[Butch5]

Greetings

Scripture has an habit of catching us out, sometimes it is because someone else has made comments that don't fit what we think, sometimes it is the Holy Spirit that is speaking and revealing a Truth, there are many other ways that this can happen but, if we slam the door because what has been said, with scripture quoted, doesn't fit what we think at the time, we could be slamming the door in the face of the Holy Spirit.

I believe we are all like sheep, not just the lost souls following sin, the world and the devil, but also saved ones, the main difference here being lost souls do not have a shepherd, saved ones do, it is Jesus. So as saved souls, following Jesus, one would think we all believe the same thing, wouldn't it be nice if we did? RCC follow Catholic teaching, Protestants follow protestant teaching, Baptists and others follow the ways of their denominations. What I am trying to say here, though maybe not clearly enough, is we all have a tendancy to follow others, when Jesus called us sheep He certainly understood us more than we understand ourselves, He gave us the best example possible for mankind, we are like 'Sheep'.

Many go to places of worship every week, listen to a few reading, listen to a sermon, and that's it for the next seven days. Unless we pray and search the scriptures ourselves, we fall into a sheep pen and it happens without us even realising it. But those of us who read scriptures, pray and study daily, there are many on here that do, Praise the Lord, but we too can fall into a similar trap, we are spiritually mature, knowing we have a good understanding, and that understanding becomes etched into us, it is the foundation of faith as we seek to learn more. I believe it is so easy to put ourselves into 'another sheep pen', we don't like it when someone says something that rocks the boat of our, foundational beliefs. But surely if another brother or sister raises a point and quotes scripture, that may appear to be wrong, should we not compare scripture with scripture together and in doing so 'The Truth' in 'The Word' will eventually be revealed.

How sad it would be, as said earlier, if in these end times, we didn't listen to scripture and compare, but instead slammed the door in the face of the Holy Spirit. The Truth in God's Word is revealed over time, prophesies are fulfilled over time, surely we must always have an open heart and an open mind to 'The Word' and discuss the differences from scripture in love.

Luke 12:2 (NKJV)
For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known.

Mark 4:22 (NKJV)
For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light.

1 John 3:2-3 (NKJV)
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Ephesians 4:2-3 (NIV2011)
Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.
Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

Posted in Love

Reminds me in of,

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few. (Acts 17:10-12 KJV)

 

[B-A-C]

Sheol is the old testament. Hades/Hell is the new testament.

ᾅδης = usually translated as hades. (only used in the new testament)
hadēs
hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

γέεννα
geenna = usually translated as hell. (only used in the new testament)
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 12

שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל
she'ôl she'ôl = usually translated as sheol (only used in the old testament)
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Total KJV occurrences: 65

Lake of fire is usually derived from two words, this is also only in the new testament.

G4442
πῦρ
pur
poor
A primary word; “fire” (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire.
Total KJV occurrences: 74

limnē
lim'-nay
Probably from G3040 (through the idea of the nearness of shore); a pond (large or small): - lake.
Total KJV occurrences: 10

Hell and the lake of fire are not the same place.

Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

The Bible says Hades will be thrown "into" the lake of fire.

Jewish tradition says hades is a part of sheol. Sheol contained two sides with a deep chasm between the two sides.
Much of this comes from the story of Lazarus.

Luke 16:22; "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24; "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
Luke 16:25; "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
Luke 16:26; 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'

 

[Brother-Paul]

Reminds me in of,

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few. (Acts 17:10-12 KJV)

Amen (so be it brother)

Many believe they know scripture, those who admit they are still learning and search the scriptures daily, are they that know the scriptures.

Matthew 22:29 (NKJV)
Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.

I never forget the words of wisdom I heard many years ago, whether it be faith, Bible reading or study, the moment we stop, we have already started to go backwards. Onward Christian soldier...

Romans 15:4-6 (NKJV)
For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
Now may the God of patience and comfort grant you to be like-minded toward one another, according to Christ Jesus,
that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Psalm 119:105 (NKJV)
Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.

 

[B-A-C]

Most of time, when hell is mentioned. It is Jesus speaking.

Matt 5:22; "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
Matt 18:9; "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

Jesus warns of certain things, that can result in people being thrown into hell.

There are certain parables, about being thrown into hell.

Matt 7:19; "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt 13:40; "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
Matt 13:42; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matt 13:50; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

There are times when Jesus directly used "hell" in plain language.

Matt 18:8; "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
Mark 9:43; "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
John 15:6; "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
Matt 11:23; "And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day.

Most modern Christian Bible schools/seminaries teach that hell/hades is a temporary place that people are held until the judgment.
After the judgment these people will be thrown into the lake of fire. ( I notice the title of this thread doesn't include the lake of fire )

Rev 19:20; And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

At the very least it seems that Satan, the beast, and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire... where "they will be tormented day and night forever and ever".

Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Also if anyone's name is not in the book of life... they are also thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[B-A-C]

Sometimes the words "hell" or lake of fire are not used at all... but seem to be inferred.

Matt 25:45; "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

It seems certain angels are currently in hell.

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

2 Pet 2:4; For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

There have been several threads over the years here on TalkJesus about "the outer darkness" what is it? AS an ex-fireman, I can tell you, inside most fires,
it is pitch black. You cannot see 1 inch in front of your face. So it's possible the outer darkness is hades, but I cannot prove that.

Matt 8:12; but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Luke 12:5; "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!

 

[B-A-C]

Even in the old testament. Sheol is sometimes used a place of punishment.

Numb 16:30; "But if the LORD brings about an entirely new thing and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that is theirs, and they descend alive into Sheol, then you will understand that these men have spurned the LORD."
Numb 16:31; As he finished speaking all these words, the ground that was under them split open;
Numb 16:32; and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who belonged to Korah with their possessions.
Numb 16:33; So they and all that belonged to them went down alive to Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly.

 

[Butch5]

Sheol is the old testament. Hades/Hell is the new testament.

ᾅδης = usually translated as hades. (only used in the new testament)
hadēs
hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

γέεννα
geenna = usually translated as hell. (only used in the new testament)
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 12

שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל
she'ôl she'ôl = usually translated as sheol (only used in the old testament)
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Total KJV occurrences: 65

Lake of fire is usually derived from two words, this is also only in the new testament.

G4442
πῦρ
pur
poor
A primary word; “fire” (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire.
Total KJV occurrences: 74

limnē
lim'-nay
Probably from G3040 (through the idea of the nearness of shore); a pond (large or small): - lake.
Total KJV occurrences: 10

Hell and the lake of fire are not the same place.

Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

The Bible says Hades will be thrown "into" the lake of fire.

Jewish tradition says hades is a part of sheol. Sheol contained two sides with a deep chasm between the two sides.
Much of this comes from the story of Lazarus.

Luke 16:22; "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24; "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
Luke 16:25; "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
Luke 16:26; 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'

I pretty much agree with you definitions with the exception of the idea that the dead are alive in these places. For clarification, why don't we just forgo the word hell and use the Greek and Hebrew terms. That way there should no confusion about what is being spoken of.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

which was the place that was a burning fire outside the city, a sort of rubbish tip, where dead bodies were burnt with other stuff? [unless of course i am having a memory block and there was no place??!]

Was that one of the 'hell's' or the lake of fire reference?


Bless you ....><>

 

[Sue D.]

Lots of people like to assume that the burning fire outside of the city -- the rubbish pit -- where dead bodies were burnt -- is what will happen to the bodies of the unsaved. When non-believers die that That will be end of their existence -- that their bodies will be put in that place Period -- that their soul will cease to exist. But I don't think that That is what God's Word really teaches. Hell -- the other part of Abrahams' bosom is where non-believers are now -- in torment -- the episode we read about in Luke 16: 19 - 31 -- specifically vs 23 says that the rich man was in torments in Hades, vs 24 ..... for I am tormented in this flame. And then in Revelation 20: 13 and 14 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. v 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

since the rich man was alive in hell / Hades. and then it could be assumed that he will also be alive in the lake of fire and brimstone for the rest of the time -- eternity.

And it's really sad cause the situation in Luke 16 -- when the rich man realize where he had ended up -- he begged that Someone would go to warn his brothers of where their lifestyle would put them if they didn't repent. But he was told that they had the same warnings that he, himself had had. So it was up to them to listen and either accept or reject.

It sad because we have the same situation Today. We read about the rich man and Lazarus and Should learn from it.

 

[KingJ]

Will people go to hell? What does the Bible say

God says to evildoers ''away from me'' Luke 13:27. So God must create a place 'away from Him' for them to go. AKA Hell.

There are two opposing views that come to mind from recent discussions:

1. Annihilation. 2. Universalism

Annihilation is easily debunked once we have properly digested these three verses:

God is just Psalm 25:8. God rewards each according to what they have done Rom 2:6. Paul says we will judge angels 1 Cor 6:3.

Annihilationists like to think in absolutes. Those that are destroyed in hell are absolutely wicked. Those that go to heaven are perfect. This is just not so. 1 Pet 4:18 If there are righteous that are barely saved, there are wicked that are barely not saved. We will judge angels in heaven because angels in heaven are not perfect. We are also not perfect like God Mark 10:18, we are only perfect to God. A just judge does not dish out a lethal injection for every criminal. They dish out a sentence according to their actions. Likewise those who go to heaven get rewards according to what they did.

Universalism is debunked by considering a verse like 1 John 3:8 'the devil has been sinning since the beginning'. Or John 3:19 'they reject the light because they love the darkness'. There are many who never want to truly repent and turn from sin. Only God can discern this Jer 17:9-11. If it were up to us, universalism would definitely be on the cards. There is no Christian person with the mind of Christ that hates the wicked as they hate us. We should all want to try and rehabilitate and never stop trying. This is why I have a soft disagreement with universalists.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greetings @KingJ

God says to evildoers ''away from me'' Luke 13:27. So God must create a place 'away from Him' for them to go. AKA Hell.

Picking up on your quote here brother, let us look at who are the people who are locked out, think they are saved but will be locked out like those who belong to the world.

Luke 13:24-30 (NKJV)
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,'
26 then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.'
27 But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'
28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.
29 They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God.
30 And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last."

Here we have a fuller picture of the verse quoted. It is no use thinking we are saved, we have to know we are saved, we have to 'Strive' to enter the narrow gate, that leads to life. To Strive to enter, tells us not to expect it to be easy, it will be a struggle, a literal daily struggle, but one we must take on 'daily' if we are to receive the goal. Jesus says, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able... Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'

What a powerful statement our Lord makes. 'you workers of iniquity'. You workers here, being those who think they are saved, those who attend worship together, they can be helpers, labourers, even teachers of The Word. Although these statements were to Pharisees, the message is to us all, because Jesus also adds, They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last."

Workers of iniquity! All who carry out unrighteousness, the wrong doers and the wrong doing.

Here Jesus is quoting from the Psalms using the same words...

Psalm 6:8 (NKJV)
Depart from me, all you workers of iniquity; For the LORD has heard the voice of my weeping.

All lost souls that belong to sin the world and the devil, plus all those who think they are saved but carry out unrighteousness, will end up 'locked out', they are all destined for Hell.

Those who are saved are those who strive daily to practice righteousness, they can be those who came to the Lord early in their life, they can be those towards the end of their earthly life, who repent and accept Jesus before their last breath.

Sorry, slightly off topic, more who will go to Hell, rather than, will people go to Hell? I was just picking up on the verse you quoted as I believe it carries a very important message, power packed by our Lord's use of the words, Strive, Locked Out and workers of iniquity.

Blessings.

 

[Br. Bear]

@Brother-Paul
Greetings Brother,

thank you pointing this Scripture out

Here Jesus is quoting from the Psalms using the same words...

Psalm 6:8 (NKJV)
Depart from me, all you workers of iniquity; For the LORD has heard the voice of my weeping.

Having watched a testimony a short while ago, the mention of 'strive' is fresh on my mind and I will share here the Scripture about it, which may be fitting to what you shared from your heart with us.

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Genesis 6:3


Bless you ....><>

What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?
Isaiah 5:4

 

[Butch5]

Greetings,

which was the place that was a burning fire outside the city, a sort of rubbish tip, where dead bodies were burnt with other stuff? [unless of course i am having a memory block and there was no place??!]

Was that one of the 'hell's' or the lake of fire reference?


Bless you ....><>

I understand that to be Gehenna, of the Valley of the Son of Hinom. In Mark Jesus quotes Isaiah and tells us that this place is called Gehenna.

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:1
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (Mk. 9:47-48 KJV)

In this passage, hell is Gehenna. Jesus is quoting from Isaiah 66.

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.1
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isa. 66:22-24 KJV)

What we find here is that it is dead bodies, carcases, that a burning in the fire of Gehenna. It's not souls or spirits alive and suffering, it's dead bodies.

 

[B-A-C]

In this passage, hell is Gehenna. Jesus is quoting from Isaiah 66.

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.1
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isa. 66:22-24 KJV)

What we find here is that it is dead bodies, carcases, that a burning in the fire of Gehenna. It's not souls or spirits alive and suffering, it's dead bodies.

If this is true, it contradicts your statement about hell being a product of Greek philosophy.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Even the wicked will be resurrected and rise again.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

I wonder how it is... the "dead" could be "standing".

Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

For the un-saved... there will be a second death.

Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Ecc 3:17; I said to myself, "God will judge both the righteous man and the wicked man," for a time for every matter and for every deed is there.

 

[B-A-C]

1 Tim 5:6; But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives.

There is a difference between being physically alive... and spiritually dead.

Rom 8:10; If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

 

[Sue D.]

The opening question is do people go to hell? Scripture gives two choices for our eternal destination. They are either heaven / New Jerusalem or hell/ Lake of fire and brimstone.

Revelation 14: 9 - 11 for context -- it's talking about If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he, himself, shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God....... he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels ....... they have no rest day or night."

I came across That passage while looking for Revelation 20:10 "The devil, who deceived then, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. And then Death and Hades were cast there , also. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. "

Isn't it safe to say that Everyone cast into the lake of fire and brimstone will suffer as much as those in chapter 14: 9- 11.

In the Bigger picture -- God has provided The way to stay Out of that horrible place for eternity. His gift of salvation From all of that horror. And how to avoid 'the wine of of wrath of God'. Sounds like it's a choice each person makes for him/ her self.