Will people go to hell? What does the Bible say?

[Butch5]

Hi Butch I will have to apologize to you,
as I wont be responding to any of your post any longer,
we are just far to different in our theology for anything good to come out of any conversation. Peace be with you

Actually, your post to Hekuran that I replied to shouldn't have posted. I had decided not to post that. Somehow when I replied to Kingj it got embedded in the post to him.

 

[Hekuran]

Ok. I'm not willing to be the cause of strife and problems here, so I'll go quiet on this thread for a while. Anybody's got a direct question for me, I'll do my best to answer truthfully and gracefully. otherwise, I'll keep a still tongue.

 

[Butch5]

Ok. I'm not willing to be the cause of strife and problems here, so I'll go quiet on this thread for a while. Anybody's got a direct question for me, I'll do my best to answer truthfully and gracefully. otherwise, I'll keep a still tongue.

You're not the cause of any problems. Dave replied to your post. I was going to reply to his but changed my mind. I back spaced out of the reply box but I guess the site saved my reply. After that I replied to a post from Kingj and in that post was the stuff I was going to post to Dave but hadn't. There's no strife on my part and I don't believe there is on Dave's part. We just see the Scriptures differently.

 

[KingJ]

He said the wicked are no more. I didnt read anything about a legacy

35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.

 

[Butch5]

35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.

Yeah, nothing about a legacy.

 

[Dave M]

I'm not willing to be the cause of strife and problems here

you did no such thing as far as I am concerned brother, I think Butch stated it best we just disagree that all

 

[KingJ]

If it's not in the Bible how do we know it's so?

The trinity is in the bible.

As for going to heaven. Have you not in all your studies ever read John 17:24? It is such a popular verse.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovest me before the foundation of the world .

Jesus will be seated next to God Rom 8:34, in heaven.

 

[KingJ]

Yeah, nothing about a legacy.

Butch you are really just trolling.

If it is wicked in ''great power'', spreading himself.....it is a reign of terror. Hitler, Stalin, Alexander, Napoleon all come to mind.

I can't help you beyond this. You seem unable to grasp what you read. No wonder you read all so literally.

 

[Butch5]

Butch you are really just trolling.

If it is wicked in ''great power'', spreading himself.....it is a reign of terror. Hitler, Stalin, Alexander, Napoleon all come to mind.

I can't help you beyond this. You seem unable to grasp what you read. No wonder you read all so literally.

I'm not trolling. I'm simply reading what is in the text. I'm not inferring or assuming things. Can you see why Christianity is the way it is today? People just read whatever they want to read into the Scriptures. It's just like the passage in John 14 about going to Heaven. Jesus plainly stated in chapter 13 that they couldn't go where He was going and yet person after person tries to explain it to mean anything other than what it says. This is a form of translator bias that I spoke of. People interpret the Scriptures according to what they believe. In the passage I posted David said he saw the wicked in great power but then he was no more. He didn't say his legacy was no more. He said "he" was no more.

35 I have seen the wicked in great power, And spreading himself like a native green tree.
36 Yet he passed away1, and behold, he was no more; Indeed I sought him, but he could not be found. (Ps. 37:35-36 NKJ)

There's nothing there about his legacy. "He" indicates person. It's a masculine personal pronoun. If it was talking about his legacy it would say "it" was no more.

 

[Sue D.]

When the writers of the Bible look forward to hope beyond death, it is always framed in terms of resurrection, not going to heaven.

What happens between death and the final resurrection is not so clearly spelt out - abraham's bosom, paradise, my father's house, with the Lord and away from the body.

Still, going to heaven is not in keeping with Biblical hope.

It's because Of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ that we have Christianity. We can look forward To eternal life with God in heaven / New Jerusalem.

So --if the hope isn't connected to heaven then what would be it connect To.

Christ in us -- the hope. Christ being in us -- salvation. Salvation From hell and TO heaven.

 

[Butch5]

The trinity is in the bible.

As for going to heaven. Have you not in all your studies ever read John 17:24? It is such a popular verse.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovest me before the foundation of the world .

Jesus will be seated next to God Rom 8:34, in heaven.

Where is it in the Bible?

Yeah, I'm familiar with John 17 and Jesus' prayer. And they will be with Him just as He said, Remember, He told His disciples that if He went away, He would come back so that they could be with Him.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (Jn. 14:3 KJV)

 

[Fragrant Grace]

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise.
Luke 23:43

Greetings @Dave M @Butch5
@Sue D.

What does paradise refer to here?

Blessings

 

[Hekuran]

It's because Of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ that we have Christianity. We can look forward To eternal life with God in heaven / New Jerusalem.

So --if the hope isn't connected to heaven then what would be it connect To.

Christ in us -- the hope. Christ being in us -- salvation. Salvation From hell and TO heaven.

Romans 8. The earth restored, redeemed, renewed, released from bondage to death, and glorified. The new Jerusalem will be at the centre of it, and the whole of creation will sing God's praises.

 

[Butch5]

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise.
Luke 23:43

Greetings @Dave M @Butch5
@Sue D.

What does paradise refer to here?

Blessings

Hi Fragrant Grace,

The Greek word that is translated paradise means a garden. In the Greek OT Eden is called a paradise. In the passage you quoted the thief asked Jesus to remember him in His kingdom. So, Paradise here would pertain to the Kingdom of God. There is a garden in the Kingdom of God.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. (Rev. 2:7 KJV)

Jesus told the thief that he would be with Him in Paradise.

 

[Sue D.]

Paradise is in Abrahams' bosom -- part of that is Hades or Sheol and the other part is Paradise. That is where believers went prior to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. When arose , He went to Paradise to bring it's occupants back up with Him.

So -- actually - the Paradise part no longer exists -- everyone who's a believer is with Jesus upon their death.

A garden Can be a paradise because it would be beautiful to be in / around.

 

[Butch5]

Paradise is in Abrahams' bosom -- part of that is Hades or Sheol and the other part is Paradise. That is where believers went prior to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. When arose , He went to Paradise to bring it's occupants back up with Him.

So -- actually - the Paradise part no longer exists -- everyone who's a believer is with Jesus upon their death.

A garden Can be a paradise because it would be beautiful to be in / around.

Sue,

Abraham's bosom is a man's chest. There is nothing in Scripture that says Abraham's bosom or Paradise are a part of Hades. Hades is the grave. Abraham's bosom is a man's chest. Paradise is a garden. When Jesus was speaking to the thief the garden he referred to is in the Kingdom.

 

[B-A-C]

Abraham's bosom is a man's chest. There is nothing in Scripture that says Abraham's bosom or Paradise are a part of Hades. Hades is the grave. Abraham's bosom is a man's chest. Paradise is a garden. When Jesus was speaking to the thief the garden he referred to is in the Kingdom.

I wonder if you ever read the Bible to check on your replies?

Luke 16:22; "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

King James if you prefer.

Luke 16:22; And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luke 16:23; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

 

[B-A-C]

When you see the words eternal, everlasting, or forever, in the Scriptures you should pause. The Biblical words don't mean eternal. This is an example of translator bias.

I'm more inclined to think this is your bias.

2 Tim 3:16; All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
Isa 40:8; The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.

Either the Bible is God's word or it isn't. As soon as you start saying it's in error... anything goes. I can pick a sentence from comic book and turn it into doctrine.

We have many of the original manuscripts. I myself have a copy of a dead sea Bible. I can assure you there is no bias from God.

But for sake of argument... say you are right... OK... how long is an age? An eon? The ice age lasted 20 thousand years.
How long is the new testament age? ( over 2,000 years) so even if were right about this (you aren't) that would still be a pretty long time.
What changes in the "next age"?

Luke 20:35; but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

 

[Butch5]

I'm more inclined to think this is your bias.

2 Tim 3:16; All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
Isa 40:8; The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.

Either the Bible is God's word or it isn't. As soon as you start saying it's in error... anything goes. I can pick a sentence from comic book and turn it into doctrine.

We have many of the original manuscripts. I myself have a copy of a dead sea Bible. I can assure you there is no bias from God.

Do you disagree with logic? Something that ends cannot be forever. Scripture is inspired by God, translations weren't. You're reading a translation, one that came from men, Men have biases. Thus, your translation has biases. If you choose to pull the wool over your own eyes that's your choice. However, if you do, finding the truth will be difficult.

 

[B-A-C]

Do you disagree with logic?

1 Cor 3:19; For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS";

I don't search for philosophy and logic. I search for truth. God's Word is truth. ( John 17:17; Col 1:5; 2 Tim 2:15; )