Will people go to hell? What does the Bible say?

[B-A-C]

Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

It seems the punishment will not be short or temporary.

When did the angels rebell? At the same time Satan did? When Adam and Eve were still in the garden?
How many years ago was that?

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,

They are still to this day in "eternal bonds"

Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

They will face the punishment of "eternal" fire.

It seems the demons are afraid of this torment. But even they know the time for this hasn't happened yet.

Matt 8:29; And they cried out, saying, "What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"
Mark 5:7; and shouting with a loud voice, he *said, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me!"
Luke 8:28; Seeing Jesus, he cried out and fell before Him, and said in a loud voice, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me."

Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

It seems that not only Satan, the beast and the false prophet will be in torment forever. But anyone who worships the beast or takes his mark.

 

[B-A-C]

The opening question is do people go to hell? Scripture gives two choices for our eternal destination.

Inevitably these discussions are diverted to other things. It seems the idea is that things will be harder to prove, eventually you'll run into something
you can't prove, and then they will discredit your whole argument on that one point.

Dozens of verses have been given here about people going to hell.
So then the questions change slightly.... well "who" will go there. What is hell? It isn't really what you think. (Even though they don't
really know what you think). Then finally once you prove these two things... well they won't go there for very long...
So then you have to prove that one... and it goes on.

It seems it's a never ending attempt to slightly change the subject, in order to get you to stumble on something.

 

[Dave M]

Hey Sue great post, you know something that enter

It seems it's a never ending attempt to slightly change the subject, in order to get you to stumble on something.

man I was just thinking something similar, instead of wanting to run as far away from sin and the possibility of eternal punishment, it almost seems like some want to get as close as possible and try to make people believe there will not be eternal consequences for are actions here on earth. we have people claiming we will just ceased to exist if we are not saved, yet no where in the bible does it come close to suggesting this.

 

[Sue D.]

God says to evildoers ''away from me'' Luke 13:27. So God must create a place 'away from Him' for them to go. AKA Hell.

There are two opposing views that come to mind from recent discussions:

1. Annihilation. 2. Universalism

Annihilation is easily debunked once we have properly digested these three verses:

God is just Psalm 25:8. God rewards each according to what they have done Rom 2:6. Paul says we will judge angels 1 Cor 6:3.

Annihilationists like to think in absolutes. Those that are destroyed in hell are absolutely wicked. Those that go to heaven are perfect. This is just not so. 1 Pet 4:18 If there are righteous that are barely saved, there are wicked that are barely not saved. We will judge angels in heaven because angels in heaven are not perfect. We are also not perfect like God Mark 10:18, we are only perfect to God. A just judge does not dish out a lethal injection for every criminal. They dish out a sentence according to their actions. Likewise those who go to heaven get rewards according to what they did.

Universalism is debunked by considering a verse like 1 John 3:8 'the devil has been sinning since the beginning'. Or John 3:19 'they reject the light because they love the darkness'. There are many who never want to truly repent and turn from sin. Only God can discern this Jer 17:9-11. If it were up to us, universalism would definitely be on the cards. There is no Christian person with the mind of Christ that hates the wicked as they hate us. We should all want to try and rehabilitate and never stop trying. This is why I have a soft disagreement with universalists.

While it Is true that there are those who are saved on their death bed and those who've been saved for years, both people are just as saved. Not just 'barely' saved. They Are saved. And it's Also true that there are many people who accept Christ later in life and wish they hadn't waited so long because they missed so many opportunities to serve God. But no life is wasted -- we All experience regrets during our lifetimes -- even long-time believers have some regrets at times.

God sees born-again believers through the blood of Christ. 'we' are made perfect through Christ. If a person doesn't come through Christ -- they are not born-again.

Annihilationists believe a person ceases to exist upon their death. Annihilated.

Universalists believe that Everyone will eventually be saved.

Being able to 'rehabilitate' suggests that a person can do enough good things To rehabilitate / recover/ from their sins. True 'rehabilitating' is only possible through the blood of Christ.

 

[Brother-Paul]

@Brother-Paul
Greetings Brother,

thank you pointing this Scripture out



Having watched a testimony a short while ago, the mention of 'strive' is fresh on my mind and I will share here the Scripture about it, which may be fitting to what you shared from your heart with us.

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Genesis 6:3


Bless you ....><>

What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?
Isaiah 5:4

Greetings brother,

The word strive was not something I was looking for, it just came to me, I was praying Lord am I drifting off topic here, but I felt the need to continue. Strive it a good word, a strong word I feel, something we are to do diligently, something to do faithfully, it tells us to continue no matter what we experience in life, obstacles will continually get in our way (fiery darts from the evil one), we are to never give in to the world and it's ways, (sin) the promise and reward are to great to miss.

We recently discussed, I am sure you remember brother, saved souls are to practice righteousness, I believe the word 'strive' fits perfectly here to. We are to strive to be righteous in all we do, think, say and pray, practicing righteousness helps us to strive and fulfil the goal our Lord has given us to aim for. Nothing else comes anywhere near this, salvation is just the beginning, practicing righteousness, striving for it daily is our goal, or should be our goal, the Holy Spirit is transforming us and renewing our minds in Christ Jesus brother, through The Word, making us ready for eternity with Him.

We run the race set before us, our eyes on Jesus the author and perfector of our faith.

If we are not saved, we are not practicing righteousness, the devil is our father, the enemy of souls hates the righteous, he has us in his grip, and where do the lost go?
Back to the topic.

 

[Butch5]

God says to evildoers ''away from me'' Luke 13:27. So God must create a place 'away from Him' for them to go. AKA Hell.

There are two opposing views that come to mind from recent discussions:

1. Annihilation. 2. Universalism

Annihilation is easily debunked once we have properly digested these three verses:

God is just Psalm 25:8. God rewards each according to what they have done Rom 2:6. Paul says we will judge angels 1 Cor 6:3.

Annihilationists like to think in absolutes. Those that are destroyed in hell are absolutely wicked. Those that go to heaven are perfect. This is just not so. 1 Pet 4:18 If there are righteous that are barely saved, there are wicked that are barely not saved. We will judge angels in heaven because angels in heaven are not perfect. We are also not perfect like God Mark 10:18, we are only perfect to God. A just judge does not dish out a lethal injection for every criminal. They dish out a sentence according to their actions. Likewise those who go to heaven get rewards according to what they did.

Universalism is debunked by considering a verse like 1 John 3:8 'the devil has been sinning since the beginning'. Or John 3:19 'they reject the light because they love the darkness'. There are many who never want to truly repent and turn from sin. Only God can discern this Jer 17:9-11. If it were up to us, universalism would definitely be on the cards. There is no Christian person with the mind of Christ that hates the wicked as they hate us. We should all want to try and rehabilitate and never stop trying. This is why I have a soft disagreement with universalists.

35 I have seen the wicked in great power, And spreading himself like a native green tree.
36 Yet he passed away1, and behold, he was no more; Indeed I sought him, but he could not be found. (Ps. 37:35-36 NKJ)

 

[Butch5]

If this is true, it contradicts your statement about hell being a product of Greek philosophy.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Even the wicked will be resurrected and rise again.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

I wonder how it is... the "dead" could be "standing".

Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

For the un-saved... there will be a second death.

Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Ecc 3:17; I said to myself, "God will judge both the righteous man and the wicked man," for a time for every matter and for every deed is there.

I don't see how. The concept of a place where the spirit and/or soul of dead people go alive is from Greek Philosophy. Many people today call that Hell. However, the Bible doesn't teach that. In the Scripture there are three place, Hades, the grave, Gehenna, the place of fire and the Tartarus, a place for fallen angels. None of these place are a place where souls or spirits suffer for eternity. What I posted was about Gehenna. What was burning there were dead bodies, not souls or spirits.

 

[Butch5]

The opening question is do people go to hell? Scripture gives two choices for our eternal destination. They are either heaven / New Jerusalem or hell/ Lake of fire and brimstone.

Revelation 14: 9 - 11 for context -- it's talking about If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he, himself, shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God....... he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels ....... they have no rest day or night."

I came across That passage while looking for Revelation 20:10 "The devil, who deceived then, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. And then Death and Hades were cast there , also. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. "

Isn't it safe to say that Everyone cast into the lake of fire and brimstone will suffer as much as those in chapter 14: 9- 11.

In the Bigger picture -- God has provided The way to stay Out of that horrible place for eternity. His gift of salvation From all of that horror. And how to avoid 'the wine of of wrath of God'. Sounds like it's a choice each person makes for him/ her self.

But these people in Rev. 19 are alive.

 

[Hekuran]

The opening question is do people go to hell? Scripture gives two choices for our eternal destination. They are either heaven / New Jerusalem or hell/ Lake of fire and brimstone.

Don't want to come across as nitpicky, but I think this is important to the discussion. The Bible never - not once - talks about our eternal destination being heaven.

 

[Butch5]

Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

It seems the punishment will not be short or temporary.

When did the angels rebell? At the same time Satan did? When Adam and Eve were still in the garden?
How many years ago was that?

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,

They are still to this day in "eternal bonds"

Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

They will face the punishment of "eternal" fire.

It seems the demons are afraid of this torment. But even they know the time for this hasn't happened yet.

Matt 8:29; And they cried out, saying, "What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"
Mark 5:7; and shouting with a loud voice, he *said, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me!"
Luke 8:28; Seeing Jesus, he cried out and fell before Him, and said in a loud voice, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me."

Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

It seems that not only Satan, the beast and the false prophet will be in torment forever. But anyone who worships the beast or takes his mark.

Hi B-A-C,

When you see the words eternal, everlasting, or forever, in the Scriptures you should pause. The Biblical words don't mean eternal. This is an example of translator bias.

 

[Sue D.]

Oh, so Now we have 'translator bias' because 'eternal' can't possibly Mean 'eternal'. That it Really means 'temporary'.

 

[Butch5]

Oh, so Now we have 'translator bias' because 'eternal' can't possibly Mean 'eternal'. That it Really means 'temporary'.

If you look through the Scriptures and see how the words are used you'll see that translating the Greek word "aion" as eternal is translator bias. The word cannot mean eternal. Jesus spoke of the end of the aion and He spoke of this aion and the one to come. Lets replace aion with forever, If we do that it have Jesus speaking of the end of forever or the end of eternity. It would also have Him speaking of this forever and the forever to come, of this eternity and the eternity to come. That doesn't make sense if forever ends it isn't forever. If eternity ends it isn't eternal. If we have an eternity to come then this one can't be eternal. It's easy to see that the word aion doesn't mean eternal. The translators see it too so they change the translation from forever to world or age. Where it fits their theology they translate it forever, where it doesn't they change it to world or age

 

[Hekuran]

The greek word aionos is the root of the English word aeon, or eon. It means 'age'. It doesn't mean eternal, and it doesn't mean temporary either.

 

[Dave M]

The Bible never - not once - talks about our eternal destination being heaven.

I would suggest that Jesus told the thief on the cross his destination is heaven, calling it "paradise"

I would also suggest that the people coming out of the great tribulation standing before the throne of God is in heaven.

The bible not in one place says there is the trinity yet we know that it so, by reading the whole bible

To be absent from the body is to be with Christ, I would have to believe that Christ is in heaven. .

my father's house to me is obviously heaven.

the souls under Gods throne crying out for vengeance is in heaven I would suggest

Paul saying he wants to depart from his earthly tent to be with the Lord I would suggest is heaven.

 

[Sue D.]

Our eternal destination will be brought down From heaven by God. It's going to be the New Jerusalem. as per Revelation 21:1 -2 .

 

[Hekuran]

I would suggest that Jesus told the thief on the cross his destination is heaven, calling it "paradise"

I would also suggest that the people coming out of the great tribulation standing before the thrown of God is in heaven.

The bible not in one place says there is the trinity yet we know that it so, by reading the whole bible

To be absent from the body is to be with Christ, I would have to believe that Christ is in heaven. .

my father house to me is obviously heaven.

the souls under Gods thrown crying out for vengeance is in heaven I would suggest

Paul saying he wants to depart from his earthly ten to be with the Lord I would suggest is heaven.

When the writers of the Bible look forward to hope beyond death, it is always framed in terms of resurrection, not going to heaven.

What happens between death and the final resurrection is not so clearly spelt out - abraham's bosom, paradise, my father's house, with the Lord and away from the body.

Still, going to heaven is not in keeping with Biblical hope.

 

[KingJ]

35 I have seen the wicked in great power, And spreading himself like a native green tree.
36 Yet he passed away1, and behold, he was no more; Indeed I sought him, but he could not be found. (Ps. 37:35-36 NKJ)

David is talking about their legacy. It passes away. He is also focusing on wicked and ruthless leaders 'great power'. Not all that go to hell are Hitlers and Stalins.

 

[Butch5]

I would suggest that Jesus told the thief on the cross his destination is heaven, calling it "paradise"

But the thief wasn't asking where he's be later that day. He wan't Jesus to remember him in the kingdom. The word translated "paradise" means a garden. Eden is a paradise. However, the issue here is the comma. Again it goes to translator bias. In the original language there is no punctuation. The punctuation is place where the translator thinks it should be. Therefore he/she places it where they "think" it should go. So, what they believe determines where they place the comma. Below is the passage from the KJV and below that I have simply moved the comma from before today to after it.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Lk. 23:43 KJV)

Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

As you can see simply moving the comma from before the word today to after it completely changes the timing of the event. The word Today is tied to when Jesus said it rather than when it would happen. Either of these two placements of the comma is grammatically correct. Since either reading is correct this passage cannot be used to support the idea that people are alive when they are dead and it doesn't show that anyone goes to Heaven.

I would also suggest that the people coming out of the great tribulation standing before the thrown of God is in heaven.

This is a vision of the future. It doesn't speak to the present. Also, the book is symbolic so we have to make sure we're understanding it correctly.

The bible not in one place says there is the trinity yet we know that it so, by reading the whole bible

If it's not in the Bible how do we know it's so?

To be absent from the body is to be with Christ, I would have to believe that Christ is in heaven. .

The word "is" is not found in that passage. Paul is expressing a desire. He is willing to be absent from the body and present with Christ

my father house to me is obviously heaven.

We don't have Scripture to back that up.

the souls under Gods thrown crying out for vengeance is in heaven I would suggest

Again, this is a book of symbolism. Also, per Gen 2 a soul requires a body.

Paul saying he wants to depart from his earthly ten to be with the Lord I would suggest is heaven.
[/QUOTE]

David is talking about their legacy. It passes away. He is also focusing on wicked and ruthless leaders 'great power'. Not all that go to hell are Hitlers and Stalins.

He said the wicked are no more. I didnt read anything about a legacy

 

[Dave M]

Hi Butch I will have to apologize to you,
as I wont be responding to any of your post any longer,
we are just far to different in our theology for anything good to come out of any conversation. Peace be with you

 

[Butch5]

Hi Butch I will have to apologize to you,
as I wont be responding to any of your post any longer,
we are just far to different in our theology for anything good to come out of any conversation. Peace be with you

Dave,

You don't have to apologize. If you don't want to discuss things that's fine. It's all good.