Women keep silent in the churches

[Admon Mikha'el]

The post spoke of husband and wife coming together to avoid sexual immorality

LOL Ooookay

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

LOL Ooookay

Butch The second line of post #7 To get the context of 1 Corinthians 14:18-40 you have to go all the way back to 1 Cor chapter 7

 

[Butch5]

Butch The second line of post #7 To get the context of 1 Corinthians 14:18-40 you have to go all the way back to 1 Cor chapter 7

We don't a list of the questions. I asked of anyone knew what the situation was.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

We don't a list of the questions. I asked of anyone knew what the situation was.

Ok Paul, a rabbi, was answering a list of questions, one of which was about women speaking in church. The answer was no. Women are allowed to speak and minister in church. Why would Paul say women should keep quiet when he himself had two women preachers on staff? Chloe and Pricilla who was backed up by her husband

 

[KingJ]

Why do things written in the Bible have to be for a specific situation?

Don't commit adultery. That isn't a rule for a specific situation. It's an all the time rule, no matter what the situation.
People say cultures change, maybe so. But God doesn't. If He said don't do it 2,000 years ago, He probably still doesn't want you to do it.

Can women be ministry? Sure, obviously they were in New testament times.
Were they the head of the congregation, and did they have spiritual authority over men? Not that I can see anywhere in the Bible.

Very true. Many verses can be stand alone verses. 1 Cor 14:34 is certainly not one of them as 1 Cor 11:5 says woman can pray and prophecy in meetings.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Ok Paul, a rabbi, was answering a list of questions, one of which was about women speaking in church. The answer was no. Women are allowed to speak and minister in church. Why would Paul say women should keep quiet when he himself had two women preachers on staff? Chloe and Pricilla who was backed up by her husband

I'm sorry. I meant to say. The question was women are not allowed to speak....Pauls answer was "What?! 36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or is endowed with the Spirit, let him acknowledge that what I am writing you is a command of the Lord. 38 But if someone doesn’t recognize this, then let him remain unrecognized.

 

[bdavidc]

What are women restricted from doing? The clear implication is that women are not to serve in any role which involves the authoritative spiritual teaching of men. By this definition, the role of teaching pastor/shepherd is reserved for men. This is confirmed in the two passages which deal specifically with the qualifications for church leadership (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6-9). Church leaders are described as the "husband of one wife," "a man whose children believe," and "men worthy of respect."
Well, I think it's absolute. I permit not a woman to teach or to usurp authority over a man. If a woman wants to know anything, let her ask her husband. There's no ambiguity in that whatsoever. And it's not any kind of commentary on the spiritual equality of women, of course, in Christ, we're all one. There's neither male nor female. And it’s not a commentary on women as something less than it simply identifies them as “different than”, men are given the responsibility of leadership throughout society. I mean, that's God's design for marriage inside and outside the church. So again, I think it's kind of the Eve issue. You have got out from under Adam and led the whole human race into sin.

Women are designed by God to be helpers and to be protected under the headship of their husbands, and that is played out throughout the scripture. And in particular, if you look at the Bible, for example, 66 books, none of them authored by a woman. That is a pretty compulsive case for male leadership. You have 66 books, none by a woman. A couple of them had to do with a woman, Esther, and Ruth, but not written by a woman at all.

So I think you have illustrations of that. And then when you come to the apostles, none was a woman. There were women who traveled with Jesus who served and who were discipled by Him and who did all kinds of ministry, but none of the apostles was a woman. We don't have any women ordained in all the New Testament churches. We don't have them ordained as elders. We don't have them as pastors. Romans 16 talks about them as servants or deacons. So they have a role to play equally spiritually, but their very defined role is different than that of a man. So what reason would there be biblically to overthrow that? I look at it as a rebellion generated by a hard attitude of self-promotion, not because somehow you found a verse hiding somewhere in the Bible that changed what you thought was the truth.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

What are women restricted from doing? The clear implication is that women are not to serve in any role which involves the authoritative spiritual teaching of men. By this definition, the role of teaching pastor/shepherd is reserved for men. This is confirmed in the two passages which deal specifically with the qualifications for church leadership (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6-9). Church leaders are described as the "husband of one wife," "a man whose children believe," and "men worthy of respect."
Well, I think it's absolute. I permit not a woman to teach or to usurp authority over a man. If a woman wants to know anything, let her ask her husband. There's no ambiguity in that whatsoever. And it's not any kind of commentary on the spiritual equality of women, of course, in Christ, we're all one. There's neither male nor female. And it’s not a commentary on women as something less than it simply identifies them as “different than”, men are given the responsibility of leadership throughout society. I mean, that's God's design for marriage inside and outside the church. So again, I think it's kind of the Eve issue. You have got out from under Adam and led the whole human race into sin.

Women are designed by God to be helpers and to be protected under the headship of their husbands, and that is played out throughout the scripture. And in particular, if you look at the Bible, for example, 66 books, none of them authored by a woman. That is a pretty compulsive case for male leadership. You have 66 books, none by a woman. A couple of them had to do with a woman, Esther, and Ruth, but not written by a woman at all.

So I think you have illustrations of that. And then when you come to the apostles, none was a woman. There were women who traveled with Jesus who served and who were discipled by Him and who did all kinds of ministry, but none of the apostles was a woman. We don't have any women ordained in all the New Testament churches. We don't have them ordained as elders. We don't have them as pastors. Romans 16 talks about them as servants or deacons. So they have a role to play equally spiritually, but their very defined role is different than that of a man. So what reason would there be biblically to overthrow that? I look at it as a rebellion generated by a hard attitude of self-promotion, not because somehow you found a verse hiding somewhere in the Bible that changed what you thought was the truth.

You've based your thesis on two scriptures, guidelines for elders and a harshly and badly edited history of Gods people.....That makes it an opinion, nothing more....but not based on truth.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

What are women restricted from doing? The clear implication is that women are not to serve in any role which involves the authoritative spiritual teaching of men. By this definition, the role of teaching pastor/shepherd is reserved for men. This is confirmed in the two passages which deal specifically with the qualifications for church leadership (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6-9). Church leaders are described as the "husband of one wife," "a man whose children believe," and "men worthy of respect."
Well, I think it's absolute. I permit not a woman to teach or to usurp authority over a man. If a woman wants to know anything, let her ask her husband. There's no ambiguity in that whatsoever. And it's not any kind of commentary on the spiritual equality of women, of course, in Christ, we're all one. There's neither male nor female. And it’s not a commentary on women as something less than it simply identifies them as “different than”, men are given the responsibility of leadership throughout society. I mean, that's God's design for marriage inside and outside the church. So again, I think it's kind of the Eve issue. You have got out from under Adam and led the whole human race into sin.

Women are designed by God to be helpers and to be protected under the headship of their husbands, and that is played out throughout the scripture. And in particular, if you look at the Bible, for example, 66 books, none of them authored by a woman. That is a pretty compulsive case for male leadership. You have 66 books, none by a woman. A couple of them had to do with a woman, Esther, and Ruth, but not written by a woman at all.

So I think you have illustrations of that. And then when you come to the apostles, none was a woman. There were women who traveled with Jesus who served and who were discipled by Him and who did all kinds of ministry, but none of the apostles was a woman. We don't have any women ordained in all the New Testament churches. We don't have them ordained as elders. We don't have them as pastors. Romans 16 talks about them as servants or deacons. So they have a role to play equally spiritually, but their very defined role is different than that of a man. So what reason would there be biblically to overthrow that? I look at it as a rebellion generated by a hard attitude of self-promotion, not because somehow you found a verse hiding somewhere in the Bible that changed what you thought was the truth.

You've based your thesis on two scriptures, guidelines for elders and a harshly and badly edited history of Gods people.....That makes it an opinion, nothing more....but not based on truth.

 

[complete]

'I will therefore
that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands,
without wrath and doubting.
In like manner also,
.. that women adorn themselves in modest apparel,
.... with shamefacedness and sobriety;
...... not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
........ But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
.. But I suffer not a woman to teach,
.... nor to usurp authority over the man,
...... but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
.. And Adam was not deceived,
.... but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
...... Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing,
........ if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.'
(1Tim. 2:8-15)

Hello there, @bdavidc, @Admon Mikha'el, @Butch5, @KingJ, @Curtis, @B-A-C,

* Women are to learn in silence, with subjection. They are not to teach, nor, 'usurp authority over the man', but remain silent within that situation.

* Paul gives reasons for that instruction: he says that Adam had a prior position to Eve in that he was formed first, and the fact that he was not deceived in the garden of Eden, but that Eve was, and thereby transgressed against God's known will. She was beguiled through the serpents subtilty (2 Cor. 11:3), and Paul was fearful that the minds of the Corinthians would be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. (2 Cor. 11:3).

* In the garden of Eden, 'the woman saw that the tree was good for food' (the lust of the flesh), 'and that it was pleasant to the eyes,' (the lust of the eyes),' and a tree to be desired to make one wise,' (the pride of life),' she did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat' (Gen. 3:6)

'Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.
If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
.. For all that is in the world,
.... the lust of the flesh,
...... and the lust of the eyes,
........ and the pride of life,
.......... is not of the Father,
............ but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof:
but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.'
(1 John 2:15)

* Paul was an Apostle, he was divinely called and equipped for that task: and as an Apostle (a sent one), he spoke accordingly. It is not for us to question his authority: but as with all that is written, we are to acknowledge, believe and obey, what will therefore be God's will for us.

* I am female, and take part in an open forum, which is occupied with both male and female participants. I have been challenged about this on the forum, but consider that this is not a church, but a place of open debate, so have not considered this prohibition to apply in this situation.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

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[Hekuran]

What are women restricted from doing? The clear implication is that women are not to serve in any role which involves the authoritative spiritual teaching of men. By this definition, the role of teaching pastor/shepherd is reserved for men. This is confirmed in the two passages which deal specifically with the qualifications for church leadership (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6-9). Church leaders are described as the "husband of one wife," "a man whose children believe," and "men worthy of respect."
Well, I think it's absolute. I permit not a woman to teach or to usurp authority over a man. If a woman wants to know anything, let her ask her husband. There's no ambiguity in that whatsoever. And it's not any kind of commentary on the spiritual equality of women, of course, in Christ, we're all one. There's neither male nor female. And it’s not a commentary on women as something less than it simply identifies them as “different than”, men are given the responsibility of leadership throughout society. I mean, that's God's design for marriage inside and outside the church. So again, I think it's kind of the Eve issue. You have got out from under Adam and led the whole human race into sin.

Women are designed by God to be helpers and to be protected under the headship of their husbands, and that is played out throughout the scripture. And in particular, if you look at the Bible, for example, 66 books, none of them authored by a woman. That is a pretty compulsive case for male leadership. You have 66 books, none by a woman. A couple of them had to do with a woman, Esther, and Ruth, but not written by a woman at all.

So I think you have illustrations of that. And then when you come to the apostles, none was a woman. There were women who traveled with Jesus who served and who were discipled by Him and who did all kinds of ministry, but none of the apostles was a woman. We don't have any women ordained in all the New Testament churches. We don't have them ordained as elders. We don't have them as pastors. Romans 16 talks about them as servants or deacons. So they have a role to play equally spiritually, but their very defined role is different than that of a man. So what reason would there be biblically to overthrow that? I look at it as a rebellion generated by a hard attitude of self-promotion, not because somehow you found a verse hiding somewhere in the Bible that changed what you thought was the truth.

Paul describes Junia as "outstanding among the apostles" in Romans 16. The whole chapter is full of greetings to women who are clearly prominent in leadership positions in the church.

 

[complete]

Paul describes Junia as "outstanding among the apostles" in Romans 16. The whole chapter is full of greetings to women who are clearly prominent in leadership positions in the church.

'Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen,
and my fellowprisoners,
who are of note among the apostles,
who also were in Christ before me.'
(Rom 16:7)

Hello @Hekuran,

Yes, they are referred to as fellow-workers, and those women, under the headship of their husbands, worked alongside them in some cases, but did they teach, or hold leadership positions?

* Is Junia a female? Where are we told? They are spoken of as Paul's kinsmen, fellow-prisoners of Paul too: they are said to be, 'of note,' among the Apostles; so were of good reputation for the work they did, but I am not sure that they were Apostles themselves, or merely of note among the Apostles . If they were Apostles, they would have been male. They had been converted, or come 'into Christ,' before Paul himself. Interesting, thank you.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Hekuran]

'Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen,
and my fellowprisoners,
who are of note among the apostles,
who also were in Christ before me.'
(Rom 16:7)

Hello @Hekuran,

Yes, they are referred to as fellow-workers, and those women, under the headship of their husbands, worked alongside them in some cases, but did they teach, or hold leadership positions?

* Is Junia a female? Where are we told? They are spoken of as Paul's kinsmen, fellow-prisoners of Paul too: they are said to be, 'of note,' among the Apostles; so were of good reputation for the work they did, but I am not sure that they were Apostles themselves, or merely of note among the Apostles . If they were Apostles, they would have been male. They had been converted, or come 'into Christ,' before Paul himself. Interesting, thank you.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Junia is a female name. Since the 11th century, some translators who couldnt comprehend a woman being named an apostle opted for "Junias". But theres no ancient manuscript to back this up.

Theres no mention of Junia's husband in the text. We dont know if she was married ... if she had a husband and he was the head of their mministry it's odd that Paul doesnt mention him.

Consider, too, Phoebe, also in Romans 16. She was entrusted to deliver Paul's most significant letter, which was vital to his ministry ambitions. She was chosen to be the first person to introduce and read it in the churches.

 

[MedicBravo]

It is not wise to quote a contentious passage in isolation. It must be accompanied by a full explanation. Paul would not walk into a meeting, state 1 Cor 14:34 and then walk out.

This topic has been discussed and debated on this site in the past. What is clear from those discussions is that the context of 1 Cor 14:34 is specific to larger general assemblies. The focus point is to keep the meeting peaceful and orderly.

1 Cor 14:33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace, as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.
1 Cor 14:39 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

We see in 1 Cor 11:5 that woman may pray and prophecy in meetings.

If your thread were to go on for 100 pages of back and forth debate, it will end with this: The only non debatable restriction on woman in meetings is teaching. Teaching, specifically from scripture. What also becomes clear is the fact that many churches today have people at the pulpit 'teaching' that are not actually 'teaching'. This creates a blur on what teaching is exactly, opening the door for woman to 'teach' too. Today we think standing at the pulpit and making people laugh or cry every ten seconds is 'teaching'.

They can teach anywhere BUT from in front of the pulpit.
This "women can do everything but men cannot." garbage has to stop. God put women under man b/c of her own fault.
It is man's heavy responsibility to teach his wife and children of God the right way no matter who's fee fees get hurt. She is his Helper not "slave" as some people vomit up as a bad excuse.

 

[KingJ]

They can teach anywhere BUT from in front of the pulpit.

Do you have scripture?

This "women can do everything but men cannot." garbage has to stop. God put women under man b/c of her own fault.

Not sure I am following.

It is man's heavy responsibility to teach his wife and children of God the right way no matter who's fee fees get hurt. She is his Helper not "slave" as some people vomit up as a bad excuse.

Medic, I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Care to better explain?

 

[MedicBravo]

Do you have scripture?



Not sure I am following.



Medic, I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Care to better explain?

This "issue" has been going on for too long. The answer is clear yet people's refusal to follow all of God, and in this is the problem. God gave each, male and female, their own roles in the church. NEITHER can do everything and why men and women are to help each other.
God > Man > Woman Very simple.

 

[Twistie]

It is not wise to quote a contentious passage in isolation. It must be accompanied by a full explanation. Paul would not walk into a meeting, state 1 Cor 14:34 and then walk out.

This topic has been discussed and debated on this site in the past. What is clear from those discussions is that the context of 1 Cor 14:34 is specific to larger general assemblies. The focus point is to keep the meeting peaceful and orderly.

1 Cor 14:33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace, as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.
1 Cor 14:39 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

We see in 1 Cor 11:5 that woman may pray and prophecy in meetings.

If your thread were to go on for 100 pages of back and forth debate, it will end with this: The only non debatable restriction on woman in meetings is teaching. Teaching, specifically from scripture. What also becomes clear is the fact that many churches today have people at the pulpit 'teaching' that are not actually 'teaching'. This creates a blur on what teaching is exactly, opening the door for woman to 'teach' too. Today we think standing at the pulpit and making people laugh or cry every ten seconds is 'teaching'.

It's all pride.. puffed up pride.. one exhales themselves for a reason.. but its written...
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

I've said it many time most the temples peep call church is not of YH idk what they worship but it's not YH

Twistie

 

[MedicBravo]

It's all pride.. puffed up pride.. one exhales themselves for a reason.. but its written...
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

I've said it many time most the temples peep call church is not of YH idk what they worship but it's not YH

Twistie

God set the roles with Adam and Eve. Did he stutter? No.
Is the scripture that says "Women can do everything in the church." (not exact words of course). No.
Were there some women who did more and by God's command? YES.
Messenger is NOT an authoritative position.
I do recall that these woman also had a man WITH her to ensure she didn't falter.
Let's remember good old Miriam. EVERY time someone uses her as an excuse they "conveniently" leave out the part where she and her brother questioned God. Her brother immediately repented and asked in for her but God said no. He gave her leprosy for a week and after that, she NEVER questioned God again.
The requirements for pastor/preacher are clear. They are ALL in the male definitive. A woman can NOT be "husband of one wife".
Joyce Myers is the WORST of the women who have no business in front of a church.