Wouldn't it be jeopardizing the public health for churches to open up in spite of "Covid-19" is still active, but less because of "low contact"

[PloughBoy]

Sue, how did you come to the conclusion? Personally I think this virus is more deadly than they are letting us know.

 

[Sue D.]

This COVID Is deadly , but not in the medical sense. It's deadly in that the government is Trying to take away our freedom of choice. The Mandating aspect is dangerous. In times of natural disasters -- people helping each other works best.

Our freedom to make it or not / based on our own choices. Small business vs corporations.

This thread is related to churches re-opening. Religious organizations should never have been closed. We Do have the technowledgey to have virtual services and that has probably been the Only positive. This country has freedom To worship -- there have always been those who want to sanitize this country From religion.

 

[Hekuran]

This COVID Is deadly , but not in the medical sense.

There's been 100,000 deaths. It is very literally deadly.

 

[Sue D.]

So is the flu -- and we've had some bad flu seasons.

The Major difference is that Now the government has stepped in and Closed down most everything. Manditory 'this' and Manditory 'that'. And that it's 'for our safety'. WE should have the individual responsibility to act in a responsible way -- do the obvious things -- stay away from people when sick or not feeling good. The 'need' for wearing masks -- well -- cover your own nose and mouth when sneezing / coughing // Wash your hands when it's needed. Lots of people end up with a compromised immune system - so - those particular people need to act accordingly.

And we Also know that those numbers are Not particularly accurate. It depends on what group / area is being talked about.

AND there are Also Lots More who've gotten better. Those numbers haven't been published. Hearing about large numbers of people dying is Always disturbing. Everyone wants to live forever in a disease-free world. Well -- This world is full of sin and sin leads to death. People don't get struck dead because they've done something wrong. But , we, people are Prone to be dying.

There are those who are Trying to let us know that even though COVID has been deadly -- it's not nearly as bad as media has hyped it up to be. Speculation by the 'experts' who've been shown to be mistaken, well......... ?!

 

[Trevor]

That's a disaster. A person is highly infectious for days before showing any symptoms. In that time they could unwittingly infect dozens of other who would each go on to infect more people.

Which is why lockdown, track and trace are vital to combat the spread.

Lock down I can live with Hekuran, but track and trace? a good use for it maybe, but where will it lead and was this virus designed to bring this martial law and tracking about? They have never brought martial law in for any of the previous pandemics and they have run their course and we are still here. Methinks there is skulduggery in the air.

 

[Hekuran]

So is the flu -- and we've had some bad flu seasons.

The Major difference is that Now the government has stepped in and Closed down most everything. Manditory 'this' and Manditory 'that'. And that it's 'for our safety'. WE should have the individual responsibility to act in a responsible way -- do the obvious things -- stay away from people when sick or not feeling good. The 'need' for wearing masks -- well -- cover your own nose and mouth when sneezing / coughing // Wash your hands when it's needed. Lots of people end up with a compromised immune system - so - those particular people need to act accordingly.

And we Also know that those numbers are Not particularly accurate. It depends on what group / area is being talked about.

AND there are Also Lots More who've gotten better. Those numbers haven't been published. Hearing about large numbers of people dying is Always disturbing. Everyone wants to live forever in a disease-free world. Well -- This world is full of sin and sin leads to death. People don't get struck dead because they've done something wrong. But , we, people are Prone to be dying.

There are those who are Trying to let us know that even though COVID has been deadly -- it's not nearly as bad as media has hyped it up to be. Speculation by the 'experts' who've been shown to be mistaken, well......... ?!

So it's both deadly and not deadly? Im confused as to what you believe

 

[Hekuran]

Lock down I can live with Hekuran, but track and trace? a good use for it maybe, but where will it lead and was this virus designed to bring this martial law and tracking about? They have never brought martial law in for any of the previous pandemics and they have run their course and we are still here. Methinks there is skulduggery in the air.

The countries that have pursued track and trace persistently have brought the infection rate down much more quickly than others.

 

[Trevor]

The countries that have pursued track and trace persistently have brought the infection rate down much more quickly than others.

The countries that have pursued track and trace persistently have brought the infection rate down much more quickly than others.

I don't doubt that Hekuran, But we are in the last days and we are Christians, we are told that we will be persecuted and now they wish to track and trace. Track and trace is not limited to viruses, we need to take care where this may lead. Who is behind the software, Bill Gates? A globalist who is dedicated to the reduction of the world's population through contraception and abortion, behind him is the Pope, George Soros and many other globalists. They'd have to start with something plausible to bring the populous on side, but if we are believers who have read end time prophesy we'd be very unwise not to look at the potential of this plausible device that can know where we are at any given time. and we are seeing a prototype, what comes next? All I am saying is be aware!

 

[B-A-C]

Walmart, Safeway, BestBuy, Lowes, Home Depot, and Target are all open. All liquor stores, abortion clinics, and all marijuana stores are all open.
I see hundreds of people in these places. Why doesn't the virus spread in the places.. but yet would spread (seemingly worse) in church.

Hospitals here in the US are empty. There are some fringe places like NY city where deaths are higher. But as a whole, more people have died from cancer, cigarette smoking,
abortions, and the flu (not Covid-19 related) than Covid 19 itself. Hospitals here in the Northwest US are closing, filing for bankruptcy, and laying people off.
Emergency hospitals that were setup to handle the "overflow" of patients never saw a single patient and were closed.

The vast majority of small "cash only" businesses were closed, many have gone out of business. Easier to track who spends what and where this way.
The vast majority of face masks don't stop the virus, most of them have a 0.3 particle size limit, the Covid virus is 0.125, less than half the size of this.
South Dakota (a state here in the US) never shut down at all and has the lowest Covid related deaths in the US.

This has been far from a Pandemic in the US. March and April have lower total deaths (all causes) than the previous 3 years. In fact it is routinely being discovered
that almost "ALL" deaths are being reported as Covid-19 deaths in some states. No one has died from cancer, diabetes, heart disease, the flu, or any other causes
except for Covid-19 in these states, isn't that amazing?

Usually in the past, people are given flu shots to build up their immunity, in this particular case, people are lowering their immunity by staying home inside.

The biggest Scam in history is starting to fall apart and people are starting to see through it. But it was just a test, something worse is coming.

Finally, while stimulus releif checks, welfare, and unemployment checks help, most people don't qualify for all of these, Some people don't qualify for any of these.
People are losing their houses, people are losing their businesses, people are starving.. is that worse than Covid 19? Almost of them would say so.

 

[B-A-C]

Rom 8:15; For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

If we don't have a spirit of fear.. why are many churches in "fear"?

Matt 9:35; Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.
Matt 10:1; Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

Mark 16:17; "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

What has happened to the church? Where is a faith? Why are we cowering in fear? Did the early church do this? Or did they go out and do what God told them to do anyway?

1Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

I went to the beach this weekend, Memorial day here. I didn't wear a face mask, haven't worn one since this mess started. But the truth is, there weren't 10 people on the beach.
I didn't have worry about social distancing, the closest people were about 1,000 feet away. Best Memorial day vacation I ever had. No traffic, no crowds, no problem.

John 14:12; "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
John 14:13; "Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14; "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

Do we believe this? Do we really? Without faith it's impossible to please God. If we really believe the Bible... what are we afraid of? Dying? No Christian should be afraid of dying.

 

[PloughBoy]

So, what am I hearing here, some sort of debate in essence that the world is suppose to get better, and when it drifts in the wrong direction we as "born from above" Bible believing christians are commanded by the God to put it back on course?

And if so what course would that be?

Are we saying the world is trying to deceive us, by lockdown and social distancing us?

And by locking us down in our homes and distancing us from one another, the governments has place us under a some what, modern day "Biblical Siege"?

And what is the purpose?

Is the governments also controlling the "storms", the volcanos", the floods, the locust, the bees, the fires, the ticks, Fish in the oceans are dying, depletion at a rapid pace, The Animals are dying by different kinds of catastrophes by the millions and some points "Billions" in one event. Is there a government conspiracy?

different types of pollutions are down, air is cleaner, the land is getting a rest, from day to day activities are in rest,

The abortion rate has slowed down a lot. So far this year to date only 17,050,633 babies worldwide has been aborted. 'Recorded abortions" to date. that is a big drop compared to dates and patterns.

And i do not think, people are making much babies during this "pandemic" event. because a lot of anger is being develop.

I have heard on certain occasions, someone has said: depends on how you look at it, a biblical new testament sense or a modern day "Babylonian sense", so is the glass "half empty" or "halfway full"? Well depends on what side of the Bible you are on. "Outside or Inside"? "In Jerusalem or Outside" 70 AD.

ARE we going into a modern day "Biblical Siege? Ok modern day "biblical scholars" what see you, in motifs?

And why are people so at unrest? I think the biggest problem with the so called elites and want to be's, is that they cannot worship the Gods and Goddesses of "Hedonism"! and they are going into mental break down! Now that the government is opening the doors, people are going to act like wild donkeys in heat!

Cannot some of you remember a familiar theme: "i cannot wait to leave home" [go off to college or get my own apartment], [women get married], and you know why too! People cannot wait to get out into the streets of Pleasurism and have servants waiting on them in every whim.

 

[Sue D.]

I've just been listening to Fox New -- I'm usually on KXAN -- I've been noticing that most every commercial now contains something about 'in these uncertain times, such and such'. That will Breed the feelings Of uncertainty.

And Now -- at least on Fox News -- some of the people being talked to are stating that hospitals are reporting Every death as COVID related whether they are or Not. Lots of the inconsistancies are being brought to light.

And they were talking about the quality of education being done on-line -- rather than in the classroom setting. Kids Need the classroom. Lots of parents are Not equipped to teach. And Then there are teachers who threaten to go on strike this Fall IF strict standards are not adhered to. In previous years they were striking because of poor conditions poor pay. What is with our schools, anyway. Our kids are the next generations, they Need to learn.

 

[B-A-C]

Cannot some of you remember a familiar theme: "i cannot wait to leave home" [go off to college or get my own apartment], [women get married], and you know why too! People cannot wait to get out into the streets of Pleasurism and have servants waiting on them in every whim.

Servants, every whim? You mean like postal workers, DoorDash drivers, pizza delivery boys, Amazon Prime truck drivers, fast food cooks, sweat shop factory workers, .. same "pleasurism". Different means of it.
Same selfishness.. just different people getting rich. Have you ordered any food since this started? Bought anything online? Been through a restaurant drive thru?
Been to any stores where cashiers and stock boys had to work? You selfish hedonist... how could you?

(I've done all of the above, but I don't pretend like I'm somehow the better for it).

 

[Sue D.]

@PloughBoy -- you certainly do have some very 'unique' concepts -- your very last sentence -- it's perfectly normal for young people to Want to get out on their own. Your sense of Why they want to be out on their own is a bit warped. I don't know of anyone who has a servant or two waiting on them in every whim. And the living in pleasure?! well -- perspective -- perspective.

 

[PloughBoy]

Rom 8:15; For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

If we don't have a spirit of fear.. why are many churches in "fear"?

Matt 9:35; Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.
Matt 10:1; Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

Mark 16:17; "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

What has happened to the church? Where is a faith? Why are we cowering in fear? Did the early church do this? Or did they go out and do what God told them to do anyway?

1Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

I went to the beach this weekend, Memorial day here. I didn't wear a face mask, haven't worn one since this mess started. But the truth is, there weren't 10 people on the beach.
I didn't have worry about social distancing, the closest people were about 1,000 feet away. Best Memorial day vacation I ever had. No traffic, no crowds, no problem.

John 14:12; "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
John 14:13; "Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14; "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

Do we believe this? Do we really? Without faith it's impossible to please God. If we really believe the Bible... what are we afraid of? Dying? No Christian should be afraid of dying.

about fear what fear was he talking about, in what context,,
why did Jesus heal people? in context of "Holy Scripture"
you went to a beach not wearing a mask, you could be a carrier! If you are a carrier only! It will not harm you in anyway! But it can kill millions just by coming from you! You wear a mask to keep from infecting others! But you do not care about others but you are selfish, "if drinking wine will cause my brother or sister who has weak faith to stumble and fall" ""i will No Longer drink wine"!

(ROMANS 14)
21It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anythingby which your brother stumbles [h]or is offended or is made weak. 22https://biblehub.com/nkjv/romans/14.htm#footnotesDo you have faith? Have it to yourself before God.

Does your faith causes your brother to fell or to get sick by your actions?

 

[B-A-C]

Does your faith causes your brother to fell or to get sick by your actions?

Do you believe Christians can heal? Or are you afraid they will make people sick?

it's perfectly normal for young people to Want to get out on their own.

Absolutely, God made us this way. But again.. many young people are in fear.

Gen 2:24; For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

Matt 19:5 and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?
Mark 10:7 "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER,
Eph 5:31; FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.

It seems this was God's plan all along.

 

[Sue D.]

PloughBoy -- I live Alone -- I Distance myself. Nothing I do is going to harm / infect 'millions' of people.

The churches I go to practice distancing in their seating arrangements. Have hand sanitizers all around. Those who need to Do wear face masks.

A Lot of things Could be true -- but aren't.

I've never had any desire To drink beer or alcohol of any kind. Don't drink wine, either. That stuff is expensive.

 

[PloughBoy]

In the New Testament writings, many brothers and sisters and leaders got sick and cold, suffered from hunger and pain., depression and a lot more forces that comes upon a believer in Christ! It is recorded in scripture, King David feared.... Elijah feared, JOB feared, Abraham feared, Jacob feared, Isaac feared, scattered throughout the Bible God's people feared God and Feared men, and Feared events it is recored. Some fear is justifiable fear!!!! it depends upon context! you cannot cast off certain fears just by the wave of a hand.
American Standard Version
So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

Darby Bible Translation
So that, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,

And what about when you have not obeyed the Word of God? What Has happen to Biblical characters in the Bible when they have not and refused to obey God's Word? Did he tell tell them, do not worry it is alright "Don't fear"? It's ok. You are my children, Just do what you like. No harm will come to you. For i want you to be "happy" in this world'! No sickness, no pain, no poverty, No hunger in this world, no fear, Just believe and speak it away! I know he said: and it is a "promise"! You are going to Suffer in this world, meaning with a capital "S"! "I am sending you out like lambs among "Wolves"!

And who, was He addressing in "LUKE chapter 10"?

18He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.20However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

"The Bible" is true without any error! But we as mankind is fallible in all of our ways, even in the art of "Biblical Interpretation". May the Word of God be true and all of us, be found liars.

 

[PloughBoy]

Do you believe Christians can heal? Or are you afraid they will make people sick?



Absolutely, God made us this way. But again.. many young people are in fear.

Gen 2:24; For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

Matt 19:5 and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?
Mark 10:7 "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER,
Eph 5:31; FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.

It seems this was God's plan all along.

The proper interpretation is; when they are married [ join sexually] they Have become One. Not mind or growing to think as one. They have become one through the connection that GOD has ordained it to be. Not how they feel, but by "The Standard of God's Word". When they have sex they shall become one. What God has join together let No one separate, or adulterate this union [by words or deeds, by gossip, or paper] let no man or woman, initiate the thoughts or patterns to set in pace of such moments or intentions! If any man or women is in pursuit of causing such a thing will be in danger of the "Wrath of The Almighty GOD"! Husband and wife, you have not been called into happiness you have been called into "warfare" and everything that exist in this world is trying to destroy your "HOLY Matrimony"! for the things of this world is at war with your union even your very mind. "So let this mind be in you as it was in Christ Jesus our LORD" This mind should be in you with this Example: "until death sets us apart" and you will receive a crown of Life" fight the good fight of faith and let "No Man, No woman, no friend, no father, no mother, no church, nor Angel robbed you of your Crown of victory of keeping His word into such matters!

Why do christians think it is a burden to keep God's Word and not a far off eternal rewards for doing so that far out weights the suffering. The powerful, of the suffering of keeping His Word the more Glorious the reward. And the Bible testifies to this. But the world and most christian love the God And Goddesses of "Hedonism" and they long to "Worship" it, with praise and faint when they cannot receive from its courts.

Make The Lord GOD Almighty give you the strength to complete your course!!! "Through it all, to Keep His WORD and do not relinquish the Faith by the counsel of unscrupulous christians, guiding you, to abandon the ship of pain and suffering for a corruptible crown that only last for a season.

Example:
(1 Corinthians 6}
Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”

Addressing the question: Do i think Christians can heal? Answer: No!............> I believe God is the only person that can Heal. And what process He uses is up to Him and for His purpose and not ours.

And i believe the Holy Scripture teaches the only "main" reason Jesus healed, because , "signs and wonders" was to testify that the "Words" He spoke was "The Truth"! every word that preceded out of "HIS Mouth" was the Truth! even the the words you will died in your sins. "REPENT" and if you don't...etc

and concerning "fear" he said: fear no man, that means; fear no thief, fear no killer, fear no rapist, fear no race, neither blackman or white, fear no man!

Psalms 118
6The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do to me?

(Luke 12)
4And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him

Now days "Christians do not fear God they fear men" and give their excuses to do so. "Teaching the doctrine of men for the commandments of God"! Where did this type of teaching come from "The institutionalize Church" and not the Word of God, We are suppose to Fear God And Keep His Commandments!

Somehow i followed your lead and got off course!
well maybe it was meant to be.

 

[Dave M]

If we left it to personal responsibility, the disease would spread dramatically. It needs the kind of a coordinated response that only government can manage. Without it, many many more would die.

I could exercise my freedom. But it would potentially put many, many peopled health, lives in danger. The moral and responsible thing to do is to put other people's lives before my freedom.

the question I I have for you, is why we in the past we have never done anything like this lock down???

Why are abortion clinics allowed open, yet people who need surgery are all put off??

Why are ABC stores open ?

something very sinister is behind this lock down brother I promise you.