Question about women preachers...!!

[AudreyNicole]

My mom doesn't believe women should be preachers. Is there something in the bible that affirms this philosophy?

 

[El Hombre viejo]

My mom doesn't believe women should be preachers. Is there something in the bible that affirms this philosophy?

Very respectfully suggest your mother not to speak too fast.. Women should not be ministers? Actually she is a minister. She has ministered to you all your life. She has ministered to her husband and your sibs too. No doubt she ministers all over the place. A minister is 'One who serves'

Well lets see..
Phoebe was a minister. Romans 16:1-2

Make no mistake about it: Phoebe was a diakonos -- a minister! Notice a few different translations of this verse:

"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many people, including me" (verses 1-2, NIV).

"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae" (verse 1, NRSV). "

And I commend you to Phebe our sister -- being a ministrant of the assembly that is in Cenchrea" (Young's Literal Translation).

I have no doubt that there were others too. How many can YOU find? grin

 

[El Hombre viejo]

I will share this article. Usually I do not like to post other people's work. I prefer to do my own research and post that. This however say it quite succinctly. Saving me having to research on a subject that I've never had issue with.

This Article was taken from Trumpet Wind email list. TrumpetWindList@TrumpetWind.
by Pastor Keith A. Smith

1. There is not one Scripture in the Bible that forbids women from preaching, but on the contrary, there are many verses that encourage both men and women to preach the Gospel.

2. The Bible teaches that God is not a respecter of persons, and He will use any and all who will yield to Him, regardless of race, age, or sex.

Galatians 3:28 - "...neither male nor female...for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Acts 10:34 - "...God is no respecter of persons...."

Moses said in Numbers 11:29, "Would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put His spirit upon them!"

The crying need of the hour is for more laborers. It is a trick of the enemy to try to down rate thousands of our faithful laborers just because they were born females.

3. The Great Commission, Mark 16:15, "Preach the Gospel," is to ALL believers, and to all the church of Jesus Christ. The command to "preach the Gospel" is to both male and female.

4. It is an undeniable fact that God has called and anointed thousands of women to preach the Gospel. The Full Gospel organizations have hundreds of licensed and ordained women who are preaching, teaching, evangelizing, pastoring, and doing mission work with the signs following their ministry. God is using them for the salvation of the lost, deliverance from sin, gifts of the Spirit, and infilling of the Holy Spirit.

The Bible says, "Touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm." And may we be reminded of the Scripture in Acts 5:39, "If it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God."

When someone says, "God does not call women to preach," it is like saying that God does not baptize with the Holy Spirit today. We know better, because we have witnessed and experienced it with our own ears and eyes.

I would be afraid to condemn women preachers, lest I would be found to be fighting against God, and to be committing the vile sin of attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to the devil.

5. Women preachers are a fulfillment of Bible Prophecy and another sign of Christ's soon return to earth (Joel 2:28; Acts 2:17-18).

6. The Bible declares that women will prophesy: 1 Cor. 11:5, "For every woman that prayeth or prophesieth...."

Both the Hebrew (Nebrah), and Greek (Proph) used for prophetess means (female preacher). (See Young's Concordance, Pg. 780.)

The word "Prophet" means a public expounder.

The word "Prophesy" means to speak forth, or flow forth. The Bible says in 1 Cor. 14:3, "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto MEN to edification, and exhortation and comfort."

The dictionary says, prophesy is "to speak under divine inspiration...to preach."

Therefore we learn from the original translation, from the Bible interpretation, and from the dictionary, that to prophesy means more than to tell the future, but it is to speak publicly about the past, present, or future. It is to preach under the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

The Old and New Testament prophets and prophetesses were preachers of God's Word.

Even if the words prophet and preacher could be separated, how could anyone prophesy to bring exhortation, comfort and edification to the church, if she were forbidden to speak in church and was to keep silent?

Would God inspire and anoint someone to do something that was wrong and sinful???

* (There is a difference between a prophet, and the gift of prophecy.)

7. God called and used women preachers in the Old Testament.

a. DEBORAH - Judges 4:4-5. Deborah was a Judge for both civil and criminal cases. The children of Israel came to her for judgment. She was the chief ruler of Israel for 40 years, giving orders to the Generals and all the army. She did the work of an evangelist, prophetess, Judge, and a preacher. God gave her authority over the mighty (Judges 5:13).

b. MIRIAM - Exodus 15:20; Numbers 12:1; Micah 6:4. She was a Prophetess and a Song Leader in Israel.

c. HULDAH - 2 Kings 22:14. Five men went to Sister Huldah and communed with her. She spoke to a congregation of men concerning the book of the Law. A female preached to a man's congregation, and her message was taken to the nation and produced a revival.

d. MAHER-SHALAL-HASH-BAZ'S MOTHER - Isaiah 8:3. She was a prophetess.

8. God called and used women preachers in the New Testament.

a. The first message of the Resurrection of Christ was spoken by women to a group of men.

b. Anna - Luke 2:36-38. She must have prophesied in church, because she did not depart from the temple.

c. Phillip had 4 daughters who prophesied. Acts 21:9.

d. Priscilla assisted Paul in his revival meeting and even taught Apollos in the way of the Lord more perfectly.

e. Phebe - Romans 16:1-2. Paul commended Phebe to the Church at Rome and requested that they assist her in her business. She was one of Paul's assistants in the work of the Lord and delivered the Book of Romans to the people from the hand of Paul.

9. There is no sound reason why a woman or man should not preach the Gospel. There is a desperate need in the church for more workers. Laborers are few, and God will use any and all who will go for Him. Some say God will not use a woman to preach, because "The woman was deceived," but remember Romans 5:12: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world." It seems to indicate that Adam was just as guilty as Eve in the fall of man. If anyone should be kept from preaching because of sin, it would be Adam. But God does not forbid anyone from preaching, because of Adam's or Eve's sin.

10. 1 Cor. 14: 34-35 does not say anything about women preachers. If Paul intended this verse as a general rule to bar all women from speaking in church, then they cannot teach Sunday School, testify, pray, prophesy, sing, or even get saved, and this would contradict the rest of the Bible (Acts 2:4; Acts 2:16-18).

Paul was rather dealing with a particular problem in the church. Women were not educated as were the men in that day; therefore the women would talk back and forth to their husbands in church and ask questions concerning the sermon. Paul said, "If they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home; for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." If they want to talk things over let them wait until they get home. This rule is still good for the church today, where people are talking and causing confusion in the church service. They should not speak in church. (Not in the back of the church either before or after services.)

If a woman cannot speak in church, then she cannot speak in prayer meeting, young people's service, etc., for who can deny that Sunday School and Prayer meeting, and Youth work are parts of church? Christ's Church is not a building, but rather it is found where two or three are gathered together in His name, whether at a street meeting, in a tent, a home, church, classroom or anywhere else.

11. 1 Timothy 2:12 is not a blanket rule for all women of all churches. If it were, then the women could not speak at all, for the same verse that tells them not to teach also tells them to be silent.

If all women had to keep silent in church, then that would be promoting disobedience to God, for they could not prophesy, pray, testify, sing, exhort, do personal work, or even get saved.

Whenever an interpretation to a verse contradicts the rest of the teaching of the Bible, we know this interpretation is incorrect, for the Holy Spirit will never contradict His own Word.

This is the chief verse that is used to oppose women preaching and yet it says nothing about preaching, nor does it say anything about a public worship or church service. But, on the contrary, this verse is giving instructions to wives as to how they were to conduct themselves in regard to their husband. Paul says in 1 Cor. 14:35, "And if they will LEARN anything, let them ask their husbands at home." Now he states in 1 Tim. 2:12 that the woman should learn in silence, and should not usurp authority over the man. Paul is dealing with more of a home problem than a church problem.

This verse still applies to us today. It is wrong for a woman to usurp authority over her husband (in church, home, or any place else) as was the case in Paul's day. She should not try to teach him or speak words that would cause discord and confusion, but should rather be silent and in subjection to her husband.

It is also to be understood that if anyone, whether man or woman, is usurping authority over the God-given leadership of the church, she or he is to be silent, and not to teach, or act in such a way that would create discord in the assembly.

12. Some have used Titus 1:6-7, "If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children...", but there is a difference between a preacher and a bishop. For I was an Evangelist and now am a Pastor, but I am not a Bishop (Overseer), and most Pastors are not.

If God called a single man with no children to be a Bishop, as Paul was, surely this verse is not opposed to it, nor would this scripture oppose a woman Bishop if she was called of God for the work, as was Deborah.

What this verse does teach is that a person who is to be a Bishop must not have two living companions, either husbands or wives.

The Bible often speaks of "man" when it refers to both men and and women inclusively. The word "mankind" also includes both men and women. For an example of this word usage see 1 Cor. 13:1 - "Though I speak with the tongues of MEN and angels...." This word "MEN" includes women as well, for we do not have one language for men and another for women.

13. To condemn women preachers and women church workers is a serious offense, because God has stamped His approval on them by His Spirit over and over again, and who is man to fight against the Spirit of God?

To condemn women preachers and women church workers is in a sense to claim they are doing wrong and committing sin...and all those who support them and listen to them are having a part in that sin.

For anyone to do this, he must condemn approximately 99% of all the Spirit-filled believers and the vast majority of all of Christianity.

"Of a truth, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons..." (Acts 10:34).

 

[Boanerges]

That was a good article EHV thanks!:shade:

 

[AudreyNicole]

What about in the Bible, 1 Timothy 2:11-15

It says not to permit women to teach or have authority over man???

 

[SpiritLedEd]

What about in the Bible, 1 Timothy 2:11-15

It says not to permit women to teach or have authority over man???

There's always been a theological firestorm over this issue. Keep in mind that 1 Timothy is primarily a guidance and instruction letter to Paul's young protege' Timothy and, through him, to the first century church in Ephesus regarding how to deal with issues that church was facing. When he wrote it, Paul had no idea that it would be as widely distributed as it is.

Paul forbade women preaching in first century Asia Minor because women in that society were uneducated. Only males were educated, therefore only men were able to read and write. He was just facing facts. It wasn't an attempt to suppress women. Women clamoring to be teachers in that social setting were a threat to the stability of that very young church. I thank God for the two ladies who are on the pastoral staff at my church. They love the Lord with all their hearts and they are both highly qualified preachers/teachers.

SLE

 

[rojoloco]

There's always been a theological firestorm over this issue. Keep in mind that 1 Timothy is primarily a guidance and instruction letter to Paul's young protege' Timothy and, through him, to the first century church in Ephesus regarding how to deal with issues that church was facing. When he wrote it, Paul had no idea that it would be as widely distributed as it is.

Paul forbade women preaching in first century Asia Minor because women in that society were uneducated. Only males were educated, therefore only men were able to read and write. He was just facing facts. It wasn't an attempt to suppress women. Women clamoring to be teachers in that social setting were a threat to the stability of that very young church. I thank God for the two ladies who are on the pastoral staff at my church. They love the Lord with all their hearts and they are both highly qualified preachers/teachers.

SLE

I can't say how much a DISAGREE with you on this. In fact, I find this teaching to be highly destructive to God's intended design. The Bible gives no indication that this is simply a cultural guidance. In fact, the Word of God gives EVERY indication that this was the standard in which God intended to operate His Church.

But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Paul apparently knew this was an issue that he had to carefully explain. We can see it in his wording of, "But I want you to understand..." We can see a sense of importance but we also see a sense of sensitivity. It was a touchy subject but it needed to be taught. As with back then, it is a touchy subject even today. Nobody wants to hear that because it sounds sexist. However, further examination shows a much different story. Instead of being sexist, it is actually an honor.

If we left it at saying man is the head of every woman, it would be incomplete. It goes on to say God is the head of Christ. If the Bible were putting down women, one would have to conclude it is putting down Christ as well. Christ was a wonderful leader but he was also the ultimate role model in submissiveness. He was submissive to the Father unto the point of death! Through his submissiveness, salvation is possible. Here, we see submissiveness being painted in an entirely different light from what the world describes.

Furthermore, it says Christ is the head of every man. God submits to nobody, man submits to Christ, and woman submits to man. All have a very important purpose in their submission. As we already covered, Christ submitted to the Father for the purpose of salvation and reconciliation. Tonight, we are going to get into the roles of man and woman regarding submissiveness and headship.

Christ was submissive to the Father yet men are to submit to him. This is because he holds absolute authority.

So far this entire post makes God out to be a male chauvinist. This couldn't be any further from the truth.

However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God.

It was important for Paul to teach on this as well. It is very easy to get carried away with the previous verses and take on a position of a master with his servants. This is not the design God created. While it is true that woman was made from man and is the glory of man, without woman, man would cease to exist. She has a very important role that God has blessed her with. Equality was important even back then.

John MacArthur has a great way of explaining the importance of headship and submission among men and women in the church.

[Paul] makes no distinction between men and women as far as personal worth, abilities, intellect, or spirituality are concerned. Both as human beings and as Christians, women in general are completely equal to men spiritually. Some women obviously are even superior to some men in abilities, intellect, maturity, and spirituality. God established the principle of male authority and female subordination for the purpose of order and complementation, not on the basis of and innate superiority of males. An employee may be more intelligent and more skilled than his boss, but a company cannot be run without submission to proper authority, even if some of those in authority are not as capable as they ought to be.

Just because man is placed over woman in headship does not mean man is better. It just means that is the way God designed it and we are to follow it because it is His will. Unfortunately, many men and women fall short in this because of the world's influence. Satan has crept into the Church in many ways and this is yet another one of them. If he can't take something out of Scripture, he will try his hardest to get people to misinterpret it so that they will think it no longer applies and was strictly cultural. This is the belief of many female pastors today.

The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.

Many have taken this to mean that women are not allowed to speak in church at all. Because of this, they either look down at women or take the passage to be invalid today. We must never take a single verse and attempt to interpret it on our own. We must always take Scripture as a whole. Let's look at the entire passage in context.

For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

We can see it is not saying women are to remain silent in all forms. We can clearly see it is referring to prophecy. However, if you will remember, 1 Corinthians 11:5 tells a woman to have her head covered if she is going to prophesy. Why the apparent contradiction? It is because people fail to properly interpret what is being said.

First of all, if you will remember our recent lesson on spiritual gifts, you will recall that prophecy was not just telling the future but was actually a gift of proclaiming publicly the truth of God and was not limited to new revelation but was often the already existing Word. Women are not prohibited from speaking out and teaching the Word. If you look again, 11:5 does not mention the church. It is speaking in general. There is nothing to prohibit a woman from teaching. In fact, women are all over the Old and New Testament with teaching examples. Women are free to teach all women studies. They are free to teach children. They are free to minister alongside their husbands as Aquila and Priscilla did in Scripture. However, in accordance with chapter 14, a woman is never to be in that position when placed over men in a church environment. She is to subject herself to man. If she desires to speak forth in a church environment for the purpose of edifying the church and teaching the church, let her do it at home with her husband. The concept of female pastors, which is becoming more and more accepted, is a highly unbiblical concept.

Even the people of Corinth apparently thought it was a cultural thing Paul was teaching as he felt the need to squash this idea.

But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.

It was not just something that belonged to another region. It was not something that belonged to another time period. Paul says if anyone is inclined to be contentious, if anyone desires to argue his teaching as cultural, there is no other practice in all the churches of God. Every single church of God practices these things. Obviously, the church in Corinth was a valid church of God. What Paul is saying is that anybody who claims to follow God should incorporate these practices into their local body as well. It was not a standard of man in a local church. It was a standard of God that He set forth for the Church as a whole to follow. We may not like it because of our culture but it is still the Word of God regardless and as stated in the beginning, it is not a sign of dishonor but rather, a symbol of honor.

For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Again, in God's eyes, man and woman are equal. There is nothing in His plan that makes one superior to the other. They are not independent of each other. There is simply a design of authority and submission that must be followed in the Church if we claim to be followers of His Word. Stop trying to find another way and look at Scripture for what it is in the proper light. God created an order and He saw that it was good. Who are we to say otherwise?

Females are free to minister (as is the case in Scripture) but they are never to be in a position of authority/leadership over (adult) males. This is not chauvinistic, unfair, limiting, or cultural. It is the standard of God that He set forth. Sure, many female pastors have done "great things in the name of God" but at what expense? I can steal a bunch of Bibles and go distribute them to the masses to further spread the Word but is it really what I am supposed to be doing? The same concept applies.

 

[rojoloco]

BTW, here is something that another person had to say on the subject (that I agree wholeheartedly with) on another forum where this same discussion came up:

"Can a woman preach? Yes
Can a woman teach? Yes
Can a woman lead? Yes

Can they be overseers and deacons?
1 Timothy 3

Qualifications for Overseers
3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2 Therefore an overseer [1] must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, [2] sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

Qualifications for Deacons
8 Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, [3] not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. 9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. 11 Their wives likewise must [4] be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. 13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus."

 

[El Hombre viejo]

I can't say how much a DISAGREE with you on this. In fact, I find this teaching to be highly destructive to God's intended design. The Bible gives no indication that this is simply a cultural guidance. In fact, the Word of God gives EVERY indication that this was the standard in which God intended to operate His Church.



Paul apparently knew this was an issue that he had to carefully explain. We can see it in his wording of, "But I want you to understand..." We can see a sense of importance but we also see a sense of sensitivity. It was a touchy subject but it needed to be taught. As with back then, it is a touchy subject even today. Nobody wants to hear that because it sounds sexist. However, further examination shows a much different story. Instead of being sexist, it is actually an honor.

If we left it at saying man is the head of every woman, it would be incomplete. It goes on to say God is the head of Christ. If the Bible were putting down women, one would have to conclude it is putting down Christ as well. Christ was a wonderful leader but he was also the ultimate role model in submissiveness. He was submissive to the Father unto the point of death! Through his submissiveness, salvation is possible. Here, we see submissiveness being painted in an entirely different light from what the world describes.

Furthermore, it says Christ is the head of every man. God submits to nobody, man submits to Christ, and woman submits to man. All have a very important purpose in their submission. As we already covered, Christ submitted to the Father for the purpose of salvation and reconciliation. Tonight, we are going to get into the roles of man and woman regarding submissiveness and headship.

Christ was submissive to the Father yet men are to submit to him. This is because he holds absolute authority.

So far this entire post makes God out to be a male chauvinist. This couldn't be any further from the truth.



It was important for Paul to teach on this as well. It is very easy to get carried away with the previous verses and take on a position of a master with his servants. This is not the design God created. While it is true that woman was made from man and is the glory of man, without woman, man would cease to exist. She has a very important role that God has blessed her with. Equality was important even back then.

John MacArthur has a great way of explaining the importance of headship and submission among men and women in the church.



Just because man is placed over woman in headship does not mean man is better. It just means that is the way God designed it and we are to follow it because it is His will. Unfortunately, many men and women fall short in this because of the world's influence. Satan has crept into the Church in many ways and this is yet another one of them. If he can't take something out of Scripture, he will try his hardest to get people to misinterpret it so that they will think it no longer applies and was strictly cultural. This is the belief of many female pastors today.



Many have taken this to mean that women are not allowed to speak in church at all. Because of this, they either look down at women or take the passage to be invalid today. We must never take a single verse and attempt to interpret it on our own. We must always take Scripture as a whole. Let's look at the entire passage in context.



We can see it is not saying women are to remain silent in all forms. We can clearly see it is referring to prophecy. However, if you will remember, 1 Corinthians 11:5 tells a woman to have her head covered if she is going to prophesy. Why the apparent contradiction? It is because people fail to properly interpret what is being said.

First of all, if you will remember our recent lesson on spiritual gifts, you will recall that prophecy was not just telling the future but was actually a gift of proclaiming publicly the truth of God and was not limited to new revelation but was often the already existing Word. Women are not prohibited from speaking out and teaching the Word. If you look again, 11:5 does not mention the church. It is speaking in general. There is nothing to prohibit a woman from teaching. In fact, women are all over the Old and New Testament with teaching examples. Women are free to teach all women studies. They are free to teach children. They are free to minister alongside their husbands as Aquila and Priscilla did in Scripture. However, in accordance with chapter 14, a woman is never to be in that position when placed over men in a church environment. She is to subject herself to man. If she desires to speak forth in a church environment for the purpose of edifying the church and teaching the church, let her do it at home with her husband. The concept of female pastors, which is becoming more and more accepted, is a highly unbiblical concept.

Even the people of Corinth apparently thought it was a cultural thing Paul was teaching as he felt the need to squash this idea.



It was not just something that belonged to another region. It was not something that belonged to another time period. Paul says if anyone is inclined to be contentious, if anyone desires to argue his teaching as cultural, there is no other practice in all the churches of God. Every single church of God practices these things. Obviously, the church in Corinth was a valid church of God. What Paul is saying is that anybody who claims to follow God should incorporate these practices into their local body as well. It was not a standard of man in a local church. It was a standard of God that He set forth for the Church as a whole to follow. We may not like it because of our culture but it is still the Word of God regardless and as stated in the beginning, it is not a sign of dishonor but rather, a symbol of honor.



Again, in God's eyes, man and woman are equal. There is nothing in His plan that makes one superior to the other. They are not independent of each other. There is simply a design of authority and submission that must be followed in the Church if we claim to be followers of His Word. Stop trying to find another way and look at Scripture for what it is in the proper light. God created an order and He saw that it was good. Who are we to say otherwise?

Females are free to minister (as is the case in Scripture) but they are never to be in a position of authority/leadership over (adult) males. This is not chauvinistic, unfair, limiting, or cultural. It is the standard of God that He set forth. Sure, many female pastors have done "great things in the name of God" but at what expense? I can steal a bunch of Bibles and go distribute them to the masses to further spread the Word but is it really what I am supposed to be doing? The same concept applies.

Roj. Didn't Paul say "<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29729">12</sup>But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. "? He was saying that HE did not allow women to teach. Paul was talking for Paul.

 

[rojoloco]

Roj. Didn't Paul say "<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29729">12</sup>But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. "? He was saying that HE did not allow women to teach. Paul was talking for Paul.

Do you not believe that verse is the inspired Word of God? To be of the opinion that that was merely Paul's own advice would compel you to say that verse is not inspired by the Spirit. I'm not sure about you but I fully believe EVERY verse in Scripture to be the infallible Word of God without exception. This means in every instance where Paul is giving his own input, it MUST also mean it is the Spirit speaking.

Where Paul gives his opinion on matters, we are not to take it with a grain of salt but reject it if we feel like it. It means he is teaching something new that was not previously taught. However, due to all Scripture being God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16), we know it is still God speaking it to us as new revelation.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Do you not believe that verse is the inspired Word of God? To be of the opinion that that was merely Paul's own advice would compel you to say that verse is not inspired by the Spirit. I'm not sure about you but I fully believe EVERY verse in Scripture to be the infallible Word of God without exception. This means in every instance where Paul is giving his own input, it MUST also mean it is the Spirit speaking.

Where Paul gives his opinion on matters, we are not to take it with a grain of salt but reject it if we feel like it. It means he is teaching something new that was not previously taught. However, due to all Scripture being God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16), we know it is still God speaking it to us as new revelation.

When Paul offers his opinion he offers his opinion. When he speaks Gods Word he is speaking Gods Word. You are a son of God...Should I take your word as inerrant? Or as your opinion?

So...I'll tell you what...You ignore women teachers if you want. I will listen to them if what they teach agrees with the Word.

 

[rojoloco]

When Paul offers his opinion he offers his opinion. When he speaks Gods Word he is speaking Gods Word. You are a son of God...Should I take your word as inerrant? Or as your opinion?

So...I'll tell you what...You ignore women teachers if you want. I will listen to them if what they teach agrees with the Word.

So you admit you believe the part of the Bible to be uninspired and not actually the Word of God? If all Scripture is God-breathed, this means even the verses where Paul gives his "opinion" are also inspired by the Spirit. If you do not believe this, you are also compelled to admit you believe 2 Timothy 3:16 to be a lie. If you believe 2 Timothy 3:16 to be a lie, this opens us up to a whole slew of other issues to work out for what else must be a lie if this one slipped through.

You see where I am going with this? Either the verses are inspired or they aren't. The difference between Paul speaking and me speaking is that Paul was speaking with apostolic authority. More so, God was speaking though Paul by direct revelation for the purpose of writing the New Testament epistles.

I urge you to look at Scripture as inspired (down to every jot and tittle) instead of rejecting the inspiration of the Word of God at parts you disagree with.

In your own thread, you stated "You cannot deny the inerrancy of the Word without grave consequences to yourself….." This couldn't be any closer to home right now.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

So you admit you believe the part of the Bible to be uninspired and not actually the Word of God? If all Scripture is God-breathed, this means even the verses where Paul gives his "opinion" are also inspired by the Spirit. If you do not believe this, you are also compelled to admit you believe 2 Timothy 3:16 to be a lie. If you believe 2 Timothy 3:16 to be a lie, this opens us up to a whole slew of other issues to work out for what else must be a lie if this one slipped through.

You see where I am going with this? Either the verses are inspired or they aren't. The difference between Paul speaking and me speaking is that Paul was speaking with apostolic authority. More so, God was speaking though Paul by direct revelation for the purpose of writing the New Testament epistles.

I urge you to look at Scripture as inspired (down to every jot and tittle) instead of rejecting the inspiration of the Word of God at parts you disagree with.

In your own thread, you stated "You cannot deny the inerrancy of the Word without grave consequences to yourself….." This couldn't be any closer to home right now.

Are we discussing my beliefs here? Or women preachers?

 

[rojoloco]

Are we discussing my beliefs here? Or women preachers?

At the moment the 2 are intertwined. In order to discuss female preachers, we need to know what we each believe. Being that those beliefs MUST come from Scripture to have any ground to stand on, we need to also know where we stand on the inerrancy of Scripture as well as the inspiration of Scripture. If you truly believe as you say regarding the "opinion" of Paul, you are compelled to also admit you do not believe 2 Timothy 3:16 to be accurate which means you do not believe in the inerrancy of the inspiration of Scripture and also do not believe all Scripture is God-breathed. This means the discussion can really go no further as it stops being about female preachers and starts being on the source of Scripture. Like I said, the 2 are currently intertwined.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Women Preachers

I've seen too many women preachers preaching Gods Word and their ministries too blessed to believe that you have it right. I stand by what I said.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Women Ministers

Does God change His mind? I think not!!

Miriam (Exodus 15:20,21; Micah 6:4)
Deborah (Judges 4:4,5)
Huldah (2 Kings 22:14-20; 2 Chronicles 34:22-28)
Noadiah (Nehemiah 6:14)
Anna (Luke 2:36-38)
Philip's four unmarried daughters (Acts 21:9)
Deborah, a judge, prophetess, and military leader (Judges 4

What do you believe my friend? :shock:

 

[rojoloco]

Does God change His mind? I think not!!

Not at all. However, this is where we must question whether we have interpreted the mind of God correctly in the first place. I'll address each one of these women one at a time for simplicity's sake.

Miriam (Exodus 15:20,21; Micah 6:4)

Notice how it does not say she had authority over men in a leadership position. It calls her a prophetess. In Exodus, all she does is sing a praise. In fact, there is no other mention of her in all of Scripture as having a role as prophetess and she is never again referred to by such a title. In Micah, she is simply referred to as being in the company of Moses and Aaron. Hardly a call for female pastors.

Deborah (Judges 4:4,5)

Many people who approve of female pastors love to use the account of Deborah. However, if you look at Judges 4:9, you get a strong idea of why God used her the way He did. It was to humiliate Sisera by falling "into the hands of a woman." This was a very specific task for the sake of showing the glory of God in that a woman defeated Sisera. It was not something that should have been possible to any cocky man of that time. Again, this was a very specific tasking and we see no account of any other time when she was used as a leader other than this one occasion to humiliate the men of Sisera. Again, hardly a call for female pastors.

Huldah (2 Kings 22:14-20; 2 Chronicles 34:22-28)

This was is actually very easy if we look at it. Take note that this actually differentiates her from the priest. She was giving direct revelation from God but she was not the priest. She was not in a leadership position of authority. As with the others, these 2 places are the only places where she is mentioned as well.

Noadiah (Nehemiah 6:14)

Are you seriously using Noadiah as an example? She was a traitor...a conspirator. She was evil and seeking to ruin Nehemiah. She is a very far cry from any person I would ever want to use as an example if I were trying to prove female pastors. She was a false prophetess.

Anna (Luke 2:36-38)

I fail to see the leadership role here. She is recorded as having given thanks.

Philip's four unmarried daughters (Acts 21:9)

Again, not a lot to go on but nothing implies leadership.

Deborah, a judge, prophetess, and military leader (Judges 4

You already said this one.

However, you did miss one. Let's not forget Isaiah's wife. Note that in Isaiah 8:3, she is referred to as a prophetess although she is not recorded as having given any prophetic utterances whatsoever. In fact, all she is said to have done was have a baby that had a prophetic meaning to his name.

Furthermore, not a single person you mentioned had a position of authority within the Church. There is a big difference between one who spoke on behalf of God and one who had leadership authority over a church congregation. 1 Corinthians 14:3, it says one with the gift of prophecy was meant for edification of the Church; not leadership within the Church. Even Deborah, being a great leader, was a military leader and even that was for the purpose of humiliation when men were defeated by a woman.

What do you believe my friend? :shock:

I believe you have yet to show me a place where a female held a position of Spiritual authority over men as their pastor. Again, speaking truth from God is not the same as leading God's flock.

And now I will go back to your other post:

I've seen too many women preachers preaching Gods Word and their ministries too blessed to believe that you have it right. I stand by what I said.

Then all I really want to hear you say is you don't believe all of the Bible to be the inspired Word of God because that is the only way to reconcile your "experience" with what God has said. Either ALL of the Bible is inspired or it is the greatest lie in history.

Do you believe every jot and tittle of the Word of God is inspired by God as 2 Timothy 3:16 says? If so, how do you reconcile your statements of Paul's "opinions" being only from him and not of God?

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Not at all. However, this is where we must question whether we have interpreted the mind of God correctly in the first place. I'll address each one of these women one at a time for simplicity's sake.



Notice how it does not say she had authority over men in a leadership position. It calls her a prophetess. In Exodus, all she does is sing a praise. In fact, there is no other mention of her in all of Scripture as having a role as prophetess and she is never again referred to by such a title. In Micah, she is simply referred to as being in the company of Moses and Aaron. Hardly a call for female pastors.



Many people who approve of female pastors love to use the account of Deborah. However, if you look at Judges 4:9, you get a strong idea of why God used her the way He did. It was to humiliate Sisera by falling "into the hands of a woman." This was a very specific task for the sake of showing the glory of God in that a woman defeated Sisera. It was not something that should have been possible to any cocky man of that time. Again, this was a very specific tasking and we see no account of any other time when she was used as a leader other than this one occasion to humiliate the men of Sisera. Again, hardly a call for female pastors.



This was is actually very easy if we look at it. Take note that this actually differentiates her from the priest. She was giving direct revelation from God but she was not the priest. She was not in a leadership position of authority. As with the others, these 2 places are the only places where she is mentioned as well.



Are you seriously using Noadiah as an example? She was a traitor...a conspirator. She was evil and seeking to ruin Nehemiah. She is a very far cry from any person I would ever want to use as an example if I were trying to prove female pastors. She was a false prophetess.



I fail to see the leadership role here. She is recorded as having given thanks.



Again, not a lot to go on but nothing implies leadership.



You already said this one.

However, you did miss one. Let's not forget Isaiah's wife. Note that in Isaiah 8:3, she is referred to as a prophetess although she is not recorded as having given any prophetic utterances whatsoever. In fact, all she is said to have done was have a baby that had a prophetic meaning to his name.

Furthermore, not a single person you mentioned had a position of authority within the Church. There is a big difference between one who spoke on behalf of God and one who had leadership authority over a church congregation. 1 Corinthians 14:3, it says one with the gift of prophecy was meant for edification of the Church; not leadership within the Church. Even Deborah, being a great leader, was a military leader and even that was for the purpose of humiliation when men were defeated by a woman.



I believe you have yet to show me a place where a female held a position of Spiritual authority over men as their pastor. Again, speaking truth from God is not the same as leading God's flock.

And now I will go back to your other post:



Then all I really want to hear you say is you don't believe all of the Bible to be the inspired Word of God because that is the only way to reconcile your "experience" with what God has said. Either ALL of the Bible is inspired or it is the greatest lie in history.

Do you believe every jot and tittle of the Word of God is inspired by God as 2 Timothy 3:16 says? If so, how do you reconcile your statements of Paul's "opinions" being only from him and not of God?

Of COURSE I believe all of God's Word! Do you think I'm some kind of religious nut?! I simply do not believe all of Your interpretation of it. Paul shared his own opinion in several instances in the bible. He even said a couple times "This is me not God saying this"

Many people, Most people get their ideas from church doctrines instead of the Word. Therefore I do not believe people. I believe God.
I see women ministering in all the bible. God does not change. The Women are not to 'usurp' the authority of the men. They do not when they are called to minister.
Now I'm done on this topic.

 

[rojoloco]

Of COURSE I believe all of God's Word! Do you think I'm some kind of religious nut?! I simply do not believe all of Your interpretation of it. Paul shared his own opinion in several instances in the bible. He even said a couple times "This is me not God saying this"

Many people, Most people get their ideas from church doctrines instead of the Word. Therefore I do not believe people. I believe God.
I see women ministering in all the bible. God does not change. The Women are not to 'usurp' the authority of the men. They do not when they are called to minister.
Now I'm done on this topic.

You are still contradicting yourself. It can't be both Paul's own opinion and not the Word of God yet also God's inspired Word. It is either one or the other. Perhaps you would feel better if those verses had never made their way into Scripture so that it could be all God's Word then and none of man's opinion. I hate to break it to you but it is ALL God's Word. If it is in the Bible, it is inspired by the Spirit regardless whether or not Paul says it is his opinion.

Nowhere in Scripture does Paul say, "This is only me saying this and not God" because, if this were the case, it would not be God's Word; it would be the word of Paul. I'm not even sure what translation you are using to get that phrase but it isn't found in Scripture. The closest you get is Paul saying he gives instruction by way of concession and not of command (1 Cor 7:6) yet just a few verses later, we see it is still the Lord giving the instruction even though it was just Paul's own 2 cents (1 Cor 7:10). This is because all Scripture is given by the inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness. None of the Word of God is just man's opinion. All Scripture is God-breathed, written through men chosen by God, preserved inerrant by God, and provided to us to live in all aspects, not just the ones we think apply.

As for ministering, this is far different from pastoring and leading. Women can minister without having spiritual authority over men. Once this gets figured out, you'll be back on track with Paul...and necessarily, back on track with God's command.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Do you not believe that verse is the inspired Word of God? To be of the opinion that that was merely Paul's own advice would compel you to say that verse is not inspired by the Spirit. I'm not sure about you but I fully believe EVERY verse in Scripture to be the infallible Word of God without exception. This means in every instance where Paul is giving his own input, it MUST also mean it is the Spirit speaking.

There's no disputing that it was the Holy Spirit speaking. The dispute is over whom He was speaking to. Many people (myself included) believe that He was speaking only to the church in first century Asia Minor; that the quote is included in the canon of Scripture as historical reporting only.

SLE