Question about women preachers...!!

[rojoloco]

There's no disputing that it was the Holy Spirit speaking. The dispute is over whom He was speaking to. Many people (myself included) believe that He was speaking only to the church in first century Asia Minor; that the quote is included in the canon of Scripture as historical reporting only.

SLE

Actually, the main debate above WAS a dispute over who was speaking. He was not saying that the Spirit was speaking to the early church. He was specifically saying he believes Paul to be giving us his own opinion and not speaking on behalf of God. This is a complete misunderstanding of the divine inspiration of the Scriptures...which really confuses me since he is the one who posted a whole thread on how they are inerrant.

The subject of the time period is definitely a valid argument but the divinity of the text is not. Of course, you know I believe the text to be referring to the Church over all time periods in all nations. I come to this conclusion not because I am sexist but because I firmly believe in God's appointed calling for both men and women. Not to mention, God gives the exact reason why He has commanded it to be this way. The Spiritual reasons He gives are eternal reasons so there is no reason to think the Earthly application should be temporary.

 

[RJ]

Do you not believe that verse is the inspired Word of God? To be of the opinion that that was merely Paul's own advice would compel you to say that verse is not inspired by the Spirit. I'm not sure about you but I fully believe EVERY verse in Scripture to be the infallible Word of God without exception. This means in every instance where Paul is giving his own input, it MUST also mean it is the Spirit speaking.

Where Paul gives his opinion on matters, we are not to take it with a grain of salt but reject it if we feel like it. It means he is teaching something new that was not previously taught. However, due to all Scripture being God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16), we know it is still God speaking it to us as new revelation.

You have some good points but continue to be stuck on dogma.
Just answer this one question:

If a woman preaches the gospel, the gospel has nothing to do whether a woman preaches or not and, because of this woman's preaching the gospel, a man personally receives Jesus Christ as his Savior, is he still not saved?

 

[SingPeace]

There's always been a theological firestorm over this issue. Keep in mind that 1 Timothy is primarily a guidance and instruction letter to Paul's young protege' Timothy and, through him, to the first century church in Ephesus regarding how to deal with issues that church was facing. When he wrote it, Paul had no idea that it would be as widely distributed as it is.

Paul forbade women preaching in first century Asia Minor because women in that society were uneducated. Only males were educated, therefore only men were able to read and write. He was just facing facts. It wasn't an attempt to suppress women. Women clamoring to be teachers in that social setting were a threat to the stability of that very young church. I thank God for the two ladies who are on the pastoral staff at my church. They love the Lord with all their hearts and they are both highly qualified preachers/teachers.

SLE

Great answer.

I might add that poor, young, first-time Pastor Timothy had his hands full at Ephesus. I wonder how many letters he and Paul wrote between them.

In chapters 2 and 3, Paul instructs the women to tone it down with the flashy dress and layers of jewels. He tells the men to do honest work and stop meddling in the affairs of others. He admonishes them for a list of infractions.

Paul and Timothy must have been patient people.

 

[mother3]

There were women teachers in ministry of the time of Paul, who Paul adressed.


As proven ...in a detailed expression of proof of Pauls many adresses about women.
Intersesting how men of outside of Gods kingdom and understanding of who God is and who were are as miinsters of God. Teist scriputre and run to the "letter of Timthy. To keep a woman silent by thier prejudices.
Anyone of any sex is to adress and assmely if there is vilation of the Word of God.

Women are the stonghold and voice for children and protection of them.


Women in ministry as follows....

1 CORINTIANS 11: ALL THE WAY DOWN TO VS. 16

IS AN ARGUMENEATIVE DEABTE BY PAUL FOR THE FIGHT FOR THE EQUALITY OF WOMEN TEACHERS OF THE GOSPEL.
(many flase minister of who false teach agsint women. isialote just a few verses of the demonstration of a portion of Pauls argumeent using the oppositional side of those who were speaking agsnt it. They will not teach the whole truth and isolate vs. 5,6,7...
These people are wrongfully persecuting women teachers and perverting who we are in the body of Christ of the gopsel.

The intention how some men usually isolate and abuse the use of what is said in vs.
1 Corinthians 14: 34. the ideal starts in vs. 28
Where men are addressed TO KEEP SILENT ...if there is no interpreter. Then Paul addresses women for the same reason. But for the Women are under the protection and repsonsiblity of thier husband. That why Paul tells them to take it home to thier husbands.

The problemn with the people he was addressing to bring Order Is that they were not speaking by the Authorty of God ..to say the Holy Spirit. Paul addresses with many things in consideration. And the maniputing mind of the people.

There is an expresent for order here. And not based that women are not to express the knowledge of the Holy Spirit.

It is not the sex that is expressed . It is the postion and the gifts of the Spirit that the people were claming to have... and did not.


vs. 34 Let your women keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak.; but they are to be submissive as the law also says .

*vs35 And if they want to learn something let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

*( many metaphores are used in what is known as poetry. but as some can plainly see, some poetry is based on self, romances, lust and mimic of spiritual things. But has no real spiritual purpose to the meaning of the poetry.) reflecting back from this statement above.
This could possibly be an occurance of what was happening of women speaking in tongues or prophecying and not speaking by the Holy Spirit.

Paul was singling out people who was not speaking by the spirit. This indication is not to isolate verses. these chapters of 10.11,12,13,14 (as I have said for many years to isolate any verses from these chapters to get a whole view of what is going on. Is ignorance.) One must be properly trained to interpret these books. It consist of 2 sided debates by Paul on opposing arguments and some sarcasm.

Women to be under the husband is a curse by God, Because of their transgression.
Genesis 3:16
To the woman he said: Your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you. ( this is the change of a curse by God. This was not so in the beginning)


But in Christ and those of the Christ..
Galations 3:27
For as many of you that were baptized into the Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither MALE nor FEMALE ; For you are all one in Christ Jesus.



Can anyone tell me in the law where it says woman are not to speak? (this would be the law of the Torah)
It doesn't.
vs. 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge the things I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. in vs.37 this statement does not isolate the idea to verse 34.

Women in ministry commended by Paul, I am using Paul as an example here because people are using what they think they see in Pauls writings as saying women should not preach or be in ministry as an equal. Which I have proven wrong thus far.

First I will use women in the book of Peter. Then : I will use the writing of Paul. As so people think that Paul made this rule about women preachers and teachers. And what some men think their place is.

1 Peter 3:1
Likewise wives be in subjection to your own husbands: that if any obey not the Word, they also may without the Word be won by the conversation of the wives.
2:while they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. (KJV) - This passage is to wives and husbands not people called out into ministry. Its speaking of the woman believer and husband non believer.

1 Peter 5:13
She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you and so does Mark my son.
It says: elect together with you.

Romans 16: 1-
I commend to you phoebe our sister, who is servant of the church in Cenchrea,
2- that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her of what ever business she have need of you; For indeed she has been a helper of many and myself also. (This is to each other to the authorities of a church. Asking them to assist her what she have need of. This is not a ruling over idea, but all are considered servants in the Lord as indicated over and over. But they are to be of service to the people.)
3- Greet Priscilla and Aquilla my fellow workers in Christ Jesus.
12- Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, who have labored in the Lord. Greet the beloved Persis, who labored much in the Lord...
Their labor I assure you didn't consist of following these men around aranging parties. They were ministers; preachers, teachers,

Many minister abuse and isoalte the vrs. 1 Cornithians 11: 6 perverting what is really going on. Without using the oppositional arguement of the debate Paul is making. With a closing argument procceding after into more diorder.
But in the closng arguiment 11:1-16 he closes with.

BUT IF ANYONE SEEMS TO BE CONTENTIOUS OF THIS, WE HAVE NO SUCH CONSTOM, NOR DO THE CHURCHES OF GOD!

He was explaining in both view points from thier comstoms as woman being questioned being in ministry. Noting back to his statement. In his veiw point of philosophy and natrual law;sceince.
FOR A WOMAN CAME FROM MAN, EVEN SO MAN ALSO COMES THROUGH WOMAN; BUT ALL THINGS ARE FORM GOD.

( PETAININBG TO THIS IDEA OF COURSE. bECAUSE WE KNOW WICKEDNESS DOES NOT COME FROM GDO BUT REBELLION AGAINST GOD.
In 1 Corithians 11: 1 - 16

For those who claim woman should not preach or teach a man.


It is not the woman nor a man that makes a minister/ represenative for the Lord. But the word of truth that they carry that belings to God. All true knowledge is His.

IN THIS ACT FOR THESE DECIEVERS TO PROVE THEIR CLAIM THEY ARE USING OWMEN WHO HAS NOT FULLY COME TO UNDERSTNADING TO PUT THEM NI MINSTRY MANIPULTATING THEM SO THEY CAN DECIETFULLY PROVE A POINT THAT IS FALSE. TO STATE THIER CLAIMS. AND MANY OF THE WOMEN ARE INNOCENTLY VICTEMS OF THIER DECIET.
BUT GOD DOES RAISE WOMEN UP AGAINST FOR THOSE NOT FROM GOD.

Teaching, does not mean a woman is ruling over a man, teaching is only SERVING A PEOPLE.

Origional work from interpetation and discernment. Using referneces as given from The NKJV and the Jeweish published Tenakh

Article by : Theresa Lockwood by the grace of God through our Lord Jesus Christ and Gods' trusted ministers

 

[Giggles4God]

I just wanted to point out something. Did you know that the words for man and woman can also be translated as husband and wife? Interesting, no?

 

[rojoloco]

You have some good points but continue to be stuck on dogma.
Just answer this one question:

If a woman preaches the gospel, the gospel has nothing to do whether a woman preaches or not and, because of this woman's preaching the gospel, a man personally receives Jesus Christ as his Savior, is he still not saved?

Wow! It has been quite some time since I saw this thread. I apparently missed this question.

The problem with this question is that it is based on an outcome and not on a standard. Our stance should be based on what Scripture says and not whether the end justifies the means.

A woman can minister in many ways. She can also preach Christ crucified. However, she is not to fill the role that assumes a position of Spiritual authority over men.

 

[RJ]

Wow! It has been quite some time since I saw this thread. I apparently missed this question.

The problem with this question is that it is based on an outcome and not on a standard. Our stance should be based on what Scripture says and not whether the end justifies the means.

A woman can minister in many ways. She can also preach Christ crucified. However, she is not to fill the role that assumes a position of Spiritual authority over men.

Yes, I would call that a delayed reaction...LOL:laugh:

So, I think you skirted the question !!!
Let's put it this way, The man was saved, because he heard the woman preach the "Good News". Is that good or not? If what Jesus said is true, that all good things come from above and that in this scenario, God must have accepted the man, do you disagree with the act of the man being saved through the Woman preacher?

 

[rojoloco]

So, I think you skirted the question !!!
Let's put it this way, The man was saved, because he heard the woman preach the "Good News". Is that good or not? If what Jesus said is true, that all good things come from above and that in this scenario, God must have accepted the man, do you disagree with the act of the man being saved through the Woman preacher?

I actually felt I gave it a very appropriate answer. One can never deny that men can be saved through the preaching of a woman pastor. It happens every day. Then again, one can be saved through a conversation with an unbeliever as well if God so chooses. While it is always a good thing to see a person come to the Lord, the end does not always justify the means. This is not to imply a woman should not preach the Gospel. We all have that responsibility regardless of gender. However, there are many ways to preach the Gospel to people without being in a position of Spiritual authority.

Let me put it another way. The Catholic Church teaches lies straight from the pits of Hell. That being said, I also believe there are many Catholics that are truly saved yet caught up in a system that they desperately need to get out of in order to grow in the Truth. While I believe anybody truly caught up in the full system of Roman Catholicism is unfortunately not saved, I believe many that are not as well informed or knowledgeable may be Christians. Furthermore, I believe one can visit a Catholic Church, listen to the preaching, and come to know Christ. Does this mean the Catholic Church is of God and is all hunky dory? Of course not! The end does not always justify the means. Roman Catholicism is a cult and, just because some good may come of it, it does not make it anything other than a cult.

Thankfully, female preaching does not fall under the category of a cult. It does, however, fall under the category of disobedience. God gave His standard and we are not to attempt to justify our actions just because we see good coming out of it. Are we truly that arrogant to think God will not achieve His Will if we stick to His plan? Do we truly believe we must deviate from it for the cause of the greater good?

 

[RJ]

I actually felt I gave it a very appropriate answer. One can never deny that men can be saved through the preaching of a woman pastor. It happens every day. Then again, one can be saved through a conversation with an unbeliever as well if God so chooses. While it is always a good thing to see a person come to the Lord, the end does not always justify the means. This is not to imply a woman should not preach the Gospel. We all have that responsibility regardless of gender. However, there are many ways to preach the Gospel to people without being in a position of Spiritual authority.

Let me put it another way. The Catholic Church teaches lies straight from the pits of Hell. That being said, I also believe there are many Catholics that are truly saved yet caught up in a system that they desperately need to get out of in order to grow in the Truth. While I believe anybody truly caught up in the full system of Roman Catholicism is unfortunately not saved, I believe many that are not as well informed or knowledgeable may be Christians. Furthermore, I believe one can visit a Catholic Church, listen to the preaching, and come to know Christ. Does this mean the Catholic Church is of God and is all hunky dory? Of course not! The end does not always justify the means. Roman Catholicism is a cult and, just because some good may come of it, it does not make it anything other than a cult.

Thankfully, female preaching does not fall under the category of a cult. It does, however, fall under the category of disobedience. God gave His standard and we are not to attempt to justify our actions just because we see good coming out of it. Are we truly that arrogant to think God will not achieve His Will if we stick to His plan? Do we truly believe we must deviate from it for the cause of the greater good?

There is just a bit of irony in all this. So, to stay true to your belief, You would have rather the man not be saved through the Woman Preacher?

 

[rojoloco]

There is just a bit of irony in all this. So, to stay true to your belief, You would have rather the man not be saved through the Woman Preacher?

This is a loaded question that only dodges the point. I will answer it with another question. Do you believe, if the woman was obedient to God and stepped down from her position of Spiritual authority over men, that God would not have a plan for that man to be saved?

Remember, we are only saved because God calls that person unto Himself. Believe it or not, that man's salvation is not dependent upon that woman pastor. It is only dependent upon God. Good may come out of her disobedience but I would rather see good come through her obedience God will never let one of His Elect slip through the cracks just because we were obedient to His Will and didn't take matters into our own hands. God is truly bigger than that!

 

[RJ]

This is a loaded question that only dodges the point. I will answer it with another question. Do you believe, if the woman was obedient to God and stepped down from her position of Spiritual authority over men, that God would not have a plan for that man to be saved?

Remember, we are only saved because God calls that person unto Himself. Believe it or not, that man's salvation is not dependent upon that woman pastor. It is only dependent upon God. Good may come out of her disobedience but I would rather see good come through her obedience God will never let one of His Elect slip through the cracks just because we were obedient to His Will and didn't take matters into our own hands. God is truly bigger than that!

There you go with that election only stuff again, but of course that is another disagreement:wink:.

That should be you answering my question first shouldn't it? Well anyway, to your question with a question, how do you know that the woman was not obedient. Even though she is under constant harassment and negatives from those against her, she thinks God has told her to carry on. The irony is that this man being truly saved must be an act of God, if he has sanctioned it why can't you. I know what God's word says about Woman Preachers, you don't have to pound it into me! But he is God and we are not and he sanctioned the salvation. I would leave it at that and go about more important matters like spreading the gospel of the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[rojoloco]

That should be you answering my question first shouldn't it? Well anyway, to your question with a question, how do you know that the woman was not obedient. Even though she is under constant harassment and negatives from those against her, she thinks God has told her to carry on. The irony is that this man being truly saved must be an act of God, if he has sanctioned it why can't you. I know what God's word says about Woman Preachers, you don't have to pound it into me! But he is God and we are not and he sanctioned the salvation. I would leave it at that and go about more important matters like spreading the gospel of the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Obedience is not relative based on individual belief. Obedience is absolute based on the Word of God. We are either obedient or we aren't. It is plenty possible to believe we are being obedient while, in reality, we are being disobedient. As the old saying goes, ignorance is no excuse. I do not wish to "pound" you with Scripture but rue the day when I refrain from standing on it as the backbone of doctrine.

Again, just because one believes they are being called by God into the pulpit does not make it so. This is seen enough among men let alone women. I believe God can take a bad situation and use it for His glory. This does not, however, make the situation any better. It just affects the outcome. God is God and His Will be done. He set the standard and we are to abide by it.

It may be a secondary issue but it is still an important one as I only see it getting worse with time. If we falter here, where will we falter next? I do agree that there are more important issues though. This is why I rarely bring up this issue with people. I will respond to it in great length when I am asked a question about it but I don't often start the discussion. In fact, out of almost 40 sermons, I have only taught on the God-given natural roles of men & women once.

 

[RJ]

Obedience is not relative based on individual belief. Obedience is absolute based on the Word of God. We are either obedient or we aren't. It is plenty possible to believe we are being obedient while, in reality, we are being disobedient. As the old saying goes, ignorance is no excuse. I do not wish to "pound" you with Scripture but rue the day when I refrain from standing on it as the backbone of doctrine.

Again, just because one believes they are being called by God into the pulpit does not make it so. This is seen enough among men let alone women. I believe God can take a bad situation and use it for His glory. This does not, however, make the situation any better. It just affects the outcome. God is God and His Will be done. He set the standard and we are to abide by it.

It may be a secondary issue but it is still an important one as I only see it getting worse with time. If we falter here, where will we falter next? I do agree that there are more important issues though. This is why I rarely bring up this issue with people. I will respond to it in great length when I am asked a question about it but I don't often start the discussion. In fact, out of almost 40 sermons, I have only taught on the God-given natural roles of men & women once.

I believe in the Bible, period; and I can't and won't compete with your dogmatic approach. But, still you do not answer the question: Did God sanction this salvation or not, or, are you saying that this man was not saved? It is either one or the other, which one is it?

 

[rojoloco]

I believe in the Bible, period; and I can't and won't compete with your dogmatic approach. But, still you do not answer the question: Did God sanction this salvation or not, or, are you saying that this man was not saved? It is either one or the other, which one is it?

Without doctrine, we are all left to ourselves and individual private interpretation. I believe Scripture has one meaning and one meaning only. That meaning is where doctrine is formed. To be honest, you may be against the idea of doctrine but you have your own that you follow every day. Nobody escapes doctrine. Your view of Scripture and the things of God are the doctrine you follow. I'm sure there are many that believe just as you do. This means you are a part of a doctrinal group whether you like it or not. I believe in the Bible and I will teach the Truth within. Sound doctrine is synonymous with Biblical Truth and the two can never be separated.

I have answered your question each time you have asked it but, because it does not sit well with your doctrinal stance, you don't seem to be grasping what I am saying. If any man is saved, it is only because God wanted that man saved. That does not mean that God agrees with the method His followers used.

The Church has been doing this for ages. Instead of being a peculiar people, we have become much like the world. Many modern Christians will tell you it is to better relate with the world so that they will listen. Guess what. God told us to do the exact opposite! We are to be a peculiar people, set apart from the world to the point of the world hating us because it first hated Christ. Where does blending in for the sake of earning souls for Christ come into the picture? It may work but imagine how it would flourish if we were to conform to God's standard. Imagine how much more He would bless His people! God will use both the proud and the humble. He will use both the obedient and the disobedient. Heck, God uses sin day in and day out to let His glory be known. This does not make sin any less evil. Again, not saying female pastors are evil but I am saying they are outside of God's standard which He set forth in Scripture.

 

[RJ]

Without doctrine, we are all left to ourselves and individual private interpretation. I believe Scripture has one meaning and one meaning only. That meaning is where doctrine is formed. To be honest, you may be against the idea of doctrine but you have your own that you follow every day. Nobody escapes doctrine. Your view of Scripture and the things of God are the doctrine you follow. I'm sure there are many that believe just as you do. This means you are a part of a doctrinal group whether you like it or not. I believe in the Bible and I will teach the Truth within. Sound doctrine is synonymous with Biblical Truth and the two can never be separated.

I have answered your question each time you have asked it but, because it does not sit well with your doctrinal stance, you don't seem to be grasping what I am saying. If any man is saved, it is only because God wanted that man saved. That does not mean that God agrees with the method His followers used.

The Church has been doing this for ages. Instead of being a peculiar people, we have become much like the world. Many modern Christians will tell you it is to better relate with the world so that they will listen. Guess what. God told us to do the exact opposite! We are to be a peculiar people, set apart from the world to the point of the world hating us because it first hated Christ. Where does blending in for the sake of earning souls for Christ come into the picture? It may work but imagine how it would flourish if we were to conform to God's standard. Imagine how much more He would bless His people! God will use both the proud and the humble. He will use both the obedient and the disobedient. Heck, God uses sin day in and day out to let His glory be known. This does not make sin any less evil. Again, not saying female pastors are evil but I am saying they are outside of God's standard which He set forth in Scripture.

You said above:
I have answered your question each time you have asked it but, because it does not sit well with your doctrinal stance, you don't seem to be grasping what I am saying. If any man is saved, it is only because God wanted that man saved. That does not mean that God agrees with the method His followers used.


OH, I grasp it very well my friend, your saying that God sanctioned a salvation but does not agree with the method is a conundrum and absolutely makes no sense! God is a state of absolute perfection and in him there is no room for error. I say that he sanction the salvation and the method as perfectly as he does everything and you are stuck on a rabbit trail that has nothing to do with the gospel that St. Paul said he preached: The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If this Female Preacher, in her time on earth was responsible for just one person coming to salvation by God, when she dies and comes before God, will he condemn her? I say hardly not! I think he will say, "Welcome my good and faithful servant"!!!

 

[rojoloco]

If this Female Preacher, in her time on earth was responsible for just one person coming to salvation by God, when she dies and comes before God, will he condemn her? I say hardly not! I think he will say, "Welcome my good and faithful servant"!!!

In 1 Corinthians 11:14-15, we can clearly see women are being described as having a natural covering of their long hair whereas men are not. In the same way, this is the idea behind the symbol of a covering. Some form of head covering was to be used by women as a symbol of submission. While this is seen as ludicrous in America today, many places in the world still subscribe to this practice. When I went on a mission trip to Ukraine, this was a part of the briefing. The women out there wear a covering, often a cloth wrap, around their head. It is out of the ordinary when someone does not do this. The purpose of verses 4 to 5 telling men not to wear a head covering and women to have their head covered is another way of telling us not to cross over into the roles of the other gender. It is disgraceful for a man to take on the role of a woman and vice versa.

One of these roles is Spiritual authority. Men and women have been crossing and sharing roles since Biblical times and ever before then so it is no surprise it is happening today. Some things never change. However, it was a point that God made known through Scripture. His Creation was made with a plan in mind and we are not to deviate from it. This encompasses many things including the roles of men and women. The problem is that many people today see equality and fairness before they see God's standard. They see the greater good of being more important that God's standard. In fact, you are guilty of this in your very posts. You say you are aware what Scripture says on the matter but you believe God will overlook that and see the greater good in what they are doing in His name. We all have to give an account in the end. While we will not come under judgment, I do believe we will not reap the rewards of faithfulness. Faithfulness means more than loving God and getting the Gospel out there at all costs. It means loving God and getting the Gospel out there while remaining within the natural order that God prepared for us.

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Many disagree with what I am saying here but, in the end, I direct them to Scripture. There will always be the contentious naysayers who hold to their own ideas of what is acceptable for the greater good. Paul met them with the above as do I.

In the end, I believe God will welcome that woman with open arms as His child and will say, "Well done my good and faithful servant. Enter into your rest." However, I also believe that woman's walk with God will be hindered while on this Earth so long as she remains outside of the natural order God prepared for us and, quite possibly, miss out of some eternal rewards of faithfulness for remaining within that natural order and not overstepping her bounds.
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[RJ]

In 1 Corinthians 11:14-15, we can clearly see women are being described as having a natural covering of their long hair whereas men are not. In the same way, this is the idea behind the symbol of a covering. Some form of head covering was to be used by women as a symbol of submission. While this is seen as ludicrous in America today, many places in the world still subscribe to this practice. When I went on a mission trip to Ukraine, this was a part of the briefing. The women out there wear a covering, often a cloth wrap, around their head. It is out of the ordinary when someone does not do this. The purpose of verses 4 to 5 telling men not to wear a head covering and women to have their head covered is another way of telling us not to cross over into the roles of the other gender. It is disgraceful for a man to take on the role of a woman and vice versa.

One of these roles is Spiritual authority. Men and women have been crossing and sharing roles since Biblical times and ever before then so it is no surprise it is happening today. Some things never change. However, it was a point that God made known through Scripture. His Creation was made with a plan in mind and we are not to deviate from it. This encompasses many things including the roles of men and women. The problem is that many people today see equality and fairness before they see God's standard. They see the greater good of being more important that God's standard. In fact, you are guilty of this in your very posts. You say you are aware what Scripture says on the matter but you believe God will overlook that and see the greater good in what they are doing in His name. We all have to give an account in the end. While we will not come under judgment, I do believe we will not reap the rewards of faithfulness. Faithfulness means more than loving God and getting the Gospel out there at all costs. It means loving God and getting the Gospel out there while remaining within the natural order that God prepared for us.



[/FONT]Many disagree with what I am saying here but, in the end, I direct them to Scripture. There will always be the contentious naysayers who hold to their own ideas of what is acceptable for the greater good. Paul met them with the above as do I.

In the end, I believe God will welcome that woman with open arms as His child and will say, "Well done my good and faithful servant. Enter into your rest." However, I also believe that woman's walk with God will be hindered while on this Earth so long as she remains outside of the natural order God prepared for us and, quite possibly, miss out of some eternal rewards of faithfulness for remaining within that natural order and not overstepping her bounds.


Oh yes, and while her walk is hindered, people or being saved through her, go figure! She's kinda like St. Paul when he said he would gladly give up his own salvation for others to be saved!!!

I admire her commitment!

This is just another disagreement that we share. Just like your "save by election only", that my friend can lead to a person believing that because things in their life is not just right, they hear you preach and believe they must not be one of the elected by God and therefore doomed to hell.....how sad a possibility! Through you a person may be hopelessly lost!

I would never sit long in your pew, she can preach the gospel to me any day!!

 

[Giggles4God]

oh and there is another thread about this topic, too...so the OP could do a search for it. Just sayin'

 

[RJ]

oh and there is another thread about this topic, too...so the OP could do a search for it. Just sayin'

Yes, this is not the first discussion on the topic, nor will it be the last!

What is OP?:huh

 

[rojoloco]

Oh yes, and while her walk is hindered, people or being saved through her, go figure!

Like I said earlier, people are occasionally being saved in the Catholic Church. Do you condone Catholicism as well? Do the ends always justify the means in your eyes?

She's kinda like St. Paul when he said he would gladly give up his own salvation for others to be saved!!!

I admire her commitment!

Except Paul was still living faithfully and obediently to the extent that we likely will never see again in anybody. Also, you are clearly taking that verse out of context. It is not saying do whatever you feel like doing so long as it brings people to Christ. That entire passage is speaking of Paul's love for the lost and his desire to see them come to him. The very fact that Paul tells us women are not to be in a position of Spiritual authority DESPITE his love and concern only further proves my point. There is such a thing as taking matters into your own hands and this is one of those areas.

This is just another disagreement that we share. Just like your "save by election only", that my friend can lead to a person believing that because things in their life is not just right, they hear you preach and believe they must not be one of the elected by God and therefore doomed to hell.....how sad a possibility! Through you a person may be hopelessly lost!

This only reaffirms that you still do not understand what is taught in the doctrine of the Elect. Like it or not, it is a word used in Scripture to define a predetermined decree that has not been influenced by any external cause. The only way to get around it is to change its meaning or avoid it altogether. Your hypothetical situation would only occur where the person witnessing did not properly understand what it was he is teaching.

I would never sit long in your pew, she can preach the gospel to me any day!!

To be honest, I am okay with wherever you decide to sit. My goal is to preach Christ crucified and expound upon the Truth of Scripture by using my God given gift of teaching. Who you choose to learn under is up to you.

BTW, OP means Original Poster.