many or few?

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- and out of the hundreds of millions of people who have been born and still will be -- until the end actually Does come -- a thousand or more years from Now -- a 'few' people are a LOT of people.

You put things in the form of numbers / statistics -- God has created all of us. And He would that None would perish, but that All would come to a saving knowledge of Himself through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

He has created all of Us as living, breathing human beings. He wants relationship with us.

And we Also have all the babies who have been aborted over the years -- they are with Jesus. And all the very young children who die before they realize the difference between right and wrong. They are with Jesus.

And there IS the 'majority of One' who Did die on the cross -- shed His blood for us -- that who-so-ever believeth will be saved. He rose again bodily on the 3rd day. For God so loved the World, that He Gave His Only Son for us. That Son went Willingly -- in our place.

 

[Brother-Paul]

@Beetow

I totally agree with what you quote my friend, how can we not.

The path IS narrow and those that enter will be FEW. We have to make sure we are on that narrow way, and stay on it.

We are to try and encourage others to come to Jesus via the narrow way, but it is very clear, the numbers are few, it is also clear that those who have not accepted the Lord before they die on earth are condemned already John 3:18-21

Sometimes the few on the narrow way seems, few will be in heaven, but the number is only few compared to the number on the wide way, heaven will be populated, the number there will be just right, the people there will be the just ones, the justified ones, the chosen ones.

Sound just right to me, and we can hug each other, with out risk of any form of pestilence or any other item under the curse, all things will be made new.

PTL \o/

 

[Brother-Paul]

@Beetow -- and out of the hundreds of millions of people who have been born and still will be -- until the end actually Does come -- a thousand or more years from Now -- a 'few' people are a LOT of people.

You put things in the form of numbers / statistics -- God has created all of us. And He would that None would perish, but that All would come to a saving knowledge of Himself through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

He has created all of Us as living, breathing human beings. He wants relationship with us.

And we Also have all the babies who have been aborted over the years -- they are with Jesus. And all the very young children who die before they realize the difference between right and wrong. They are with Jesus.

And there IS the 'majority of One' who Did die on the cross -- shed His blood for us -- that who-so-ever believeth will be saved. He rose again bodily on the 3rd day. For God so loved the World, that He Gave His Only Son for us. That Son went Willingly -- in our place.

Greetings Sue,

Whosoever believeth; and who is born again from above, having been washed and spiritually regenerated.

Whoever believeth from John 3:16, is to include all of verses 1-21 and other related scriptures regarding the rebirth

Shalom

 

[Beetow]

Few and Many are relative quantities regardless of their amounts.

For example; no matter how many people are represented by the great crowd
depicted at Rev 7:9-10, their number will be less than the number of folk
represented by the dead depicted at Rev 20:11-15.

In other words: the number of people ultimately saved will be less than the
number of people ultimately lost no matter how big or little their respective
numbers turn out to be.
_

 

[JerryfromMass]

Few and Many are relative quantities regardless of their amounts.

For example; no matter how many people are represented by the great crowd
depicted at Rev 7:9-10, their number will be less than the number of folk
represented by the dead depicted at Rev 20:11-15.

In other words: the number of people ultimately saved will be less than the
number of people ultimately lost.
_

Since the beginning of man and woman, if there's been 100 billion people, and if 1% are saved, that's 1 billion people saved, and 99 billion lost.

 

[Sue D.]

At least that's 1 billion people saved.

But, honesty -- that's according to one person's estimate in numbers.

The WAY Is narrow and harder to find. But it CAN be found. The born again believers need to be willing and ready to lead people To that narrow way.

 

[Brother-Paul]

At least that's 1 billion people saved.

But, honesty -- that's according to one person's estimate in numbers.

 

[Brother-Paul]

No matter what the number, we are either saved, born again from above or we are not.

No matter what the lost souls say or thinks, God has the last word.

In fact God has already had the last word, it is in The Word.

Judgement

John 3:18 - unbeliever
Romans 2:6 - believer
John 16:11 - satan

 

[JerryfromMass]

At least that's 1 billion people saved.

But, honesty -- that's according to one person's estimate in numbers.

The WAY Is narrow and harder to find. But it CAN be found. The born again believers need to be willing and ready to lead people To that narrow way.

I hear you Sue. I'm just throwing out guesstimates on the numbers. But if scripture helps us understand the difference between many and few, Jesus speaks about saving the one lost sheep while the ninety-nine others are secure, and HE speaks of one leper who turned back to Christ to give HIM thanks and praise while the other nine kept on walking away. Also, Jesus says the way to eternal destruction is broad and the gate wide, giving the notion that the many who find it, find it with ease, like Larry Bird hitting a 3-pointer. When Jesus speaks of the narrow way and strait gate, it tells us that there will be struggles, heartaches, and difficulties, there is room enough to just squeeze, through beat up battered and bruised, maybe even martyred.

There's a park near me called Purgatory Chasm. In that chasm is a rock formation called Fat Man's Misery, which is a 10-12 inch wide 30 foot long 12 foot high crack in a giant boulder. Some go through with ease. But I had to hold my breath and keep my arms over my head. I rubbed along the sides the whole way and put a tear in my shirt. My son was almost 6 feet tall and only 150 pounds at the time and he almost made it through without touching either side.

Redirect Notice

 

[Sue D.]

@JerryfromMass -- thanks for sharing and yes, agreed. And I've heard of that place. I'm not taking the time to click into it presently -- but will later on.

 

[Beetow]

• 1Cor 1:26 . . Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in
the world's eyes

That verse is useful for illustrating that "few" doesn't always pertain to a handful,
rather, it's simply a contrast between the majority and the minority, least vs most,
large vs small, maximum vs minimum, ounces vs pounds, dimes vs dollars, feet vs
yards, etc.

Some of the Bible's uses of the word "wise" don't always apply to folks born with a
high IQ. Wisdom can also pertain to education; which doesn't make someone eo
ipso smart, it just makes them informed; and if informed enough, they can
even qualify as an expert witness in legal matters.

Anyway; education and/or a high IQ have their uses; but are insufficient when it
comes to spiritual matters. In point of fact, those kinds of wisdom can actually be
an impediment. Take for example Carl Sagan. Had his knowledge and his IQ been
a spiritual advantage, then Carl would've stood on the side of intelligent design
instead of opposing it.

It's tragic that Carl went to his grave with his curiosity and so many scientific
questions about the cosmos unanswered, and to top it off, a day is coming when
even Carl's pale blue dot will no longer be available for study.

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth
were passed away." (Rev 21:1)

Can you imagine how delighted Carl would've been to explore Heaven's libraries
where everything to know that can be known about the cosmos is stored? But alas,
Carl will never find out because he was at best an agnostic, at worst an atheist.

NOTE: 1Cor 1:26 isn't sayng that no smart people become Christians; only that on
the whole; the smart folk constitute a smaller percentage in comparison to the not
so smart folk.

UPDATE: 227 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 14,102,148 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@ Beetow --- 1 Cor 1:26 " For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called."

vs 27 "But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;

vs 25 " Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men,

Wisdom is knowing how to use the knowledge that we Do have.

We find more about wisdom, understanding , knowledge in Proverbs 1 and 2.

If you'd care to read and share.

A person can have a high IQ but not be very wise.

 

[Beetow]

• 1Cor 3:9-15 . .We are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.
According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I
laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But let each man be careful how
he builds upon it. For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid,
which is Jesus Christ.

. . . Now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones,
wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it,
because it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself will test the quality of each
man's work. If any man's work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive
a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall
be saved, yet so as through fire.

It's easy mistake the judgment spoken of in that passage for the judgment spoken
of in Rev 20:11-15. But there are crucial differences worth noting.

1» The fire spoken of at 1Cor 3:5-15 burns the people's works. The fire spoken of
at Rev 20:11:15 burns the people.

2» The people walk away alive from the fire spoken of at 1Cor 3:5-15. None of the
people walk away alive from the fire spoken of at Rev 20:11-15.

3» The people are awarded at the judgment spoken of at 1Cor 3:5-15. The people
are punished at the judgment spoken of at Rev 20:11-15.

It's extremely important to note that only the Christian worker's works are tested
with fire; not the worker himself. Compare this to the great white throne event
depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where the dead's works are not tested; but rather, their
works are introduced as evidence in the prosecution's case against them. The
Christian worker's works aren't evaluated as evidence against them, but as
potential credit to justify giving them a performance award.

Another extremely important thing to note is that the Christian worker's
substandard works are burned up rather than burned off.

"let each man be careful how he builds upon it" indicates that Christians need to
keep in mind that Jesus' saved followers are on track to undergo Christ's scrutiny
one at a time, i.e. on an individual basis; and in regard to how well and/or how
poorly they put their spiritual gift to work building and/or not building upon his
foundation.

NOTE: Greek words for "purify" and "purge" are nowhere to be found in 1Cor 3:5
15; and a note in the current official Catholic Bible-- the 2011 New American Bible
-says: "The text of 1Cor 3:15 has sometimes been used to support the notion of a
purgatory, though it does not envisage this."

If perchance there are Catholics reading this, I should clue them that the non
Biblical materials (foot notes) in the 2011 New American Bible have a nihil obstat
by Reverend Richard L. Schaefer, Censor Deputatus, and an imprimatur by Most
Reverend Jerome Hanus, O.S.B. Archbishop of Duguque.

Nihil Obstat is defined as: The certification by an official censor of the Roman
Catholic Church that a book has been examined and found to contain nothing
opposed to faith and morals

Imprimatur is defined as: Approval of a publication under circumstances of official
censorship

So; if 1Cor 3:15 doesn't envision the notion of a purgatory, then what does it.
envision? It's a depiction of people who waken inside a burning home with barely
enough time to get out; taking nothing with them but whatever they wore to bed.
Their home is destroyed, and all their valuables and all their mementoes; but at
least the occupants themselves are safe, and suffer no harm from the fire.

UPDATE: 228 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 14,164,272 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- the passage 1 Corinthians 3:15 "If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he, himself, will be saved, yet so as through fire."

vs 16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? vs 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

vs 18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise."

This is an interesting passage.

Your comment of it's depiction actually happened to me and my family back when our kids were tiny. I was the one who woke up in middle of the night to find a ceiling fire, I quickly woke my husband up and we quickly tried to put the very beginnings of a embers fire starting on the carpeting. We got the kids out and found out later that we only had about 15 minutes before we'd not have been able To get out.

A trucker on the freeway not far from us had seen the fire and contacted local fire department. It was a volunteer fire group from the town we lived close to -- My husband called the friend of his and said we were on our way into town.

Mobile homes -- at least back in those days -- burn very quickly.

And, yes, our foundation Is Jesus Christ -- He is the cornerstone. There is no salvation is any other. The shed blood of Jesus Christ is enough. He is The Risen Savior.

Well -- it's the Christian worker who does the works.

You Almost sound like the use or non-use of our spiritual gift / gifts has a bearing on our salvation? The spiritual gifts we given are for the edifying of the local church that we go to.
Jesus Christ is the corner stone upon which the Church is founded on. It's His church. So those gifts are our way of helping the local church run smoothly.

 

[Beetow]

You Almost sound like the use or non-use of our spiritual gift / gifts has a bearing
on our salvation?

1Cor 3:1-15 singles out two major classifications within the Christian community:

1» God's fellow workers, e.g. apostles, pastors, teachers, evangelists, missionaries, etc.

2» God's field, i.e. babes in Christ, viz: worldly Christians-- a.k.a. carnal.

The thing to particularly note is that 1Cor 3:1-15 speaks of performance awards
that can be earned by God's fellow workers, i.e. the each, and the any, and the
every man of verses 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, and 15 do not apply to God's field; they only
apply to God's fellow workers, viz: performance awards are not earnable by the
babes in Christ, rather; God's field is under cultivation, viz: too immature to join
the ranks of God's fellow workers.

UPDATE: 229 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 14,226,396 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Garee]

So; if 1Cor 3:15 doesn't envision the notion of a purgatory, then what does it.
envision? It's a depiction of people who waken inside a burning home with barely
enough time to get out; taking nothing with them but whatever they wore to bed.
Their home is destroyed, and all their valuables and all their mementoes; but at
least the occupants themselves are safe, and suffer no harm from the fire.

Purgatory envisions that only a queen of heaven named Mary received the fullness of grace as the wage of sin and every other human an unknown remnant of grace. And as a wonder that keeps on wondering. even after they take thier last breath. No security that Christ paid the full price of redemption.

What the doctrine 1Cor 3:15 envisions is that of those “sent ones” in the Greek “apostles” as those who are considered as nothing who plant the incorruptible seed of God and water it with the doctrines of God. If The Spirit of Christ does not work with the seed there will be no rebirth.

Remember Christ is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul desire he performs that which he appoints in us with us .he makes our new hearts soft.

So the result is not new life to the one offered the gospel but the good works God working with the apostles will not be burnt up . In Hebrews 6 he call that gift the better thing that accompanies salvation .He promises us he will not to forget the good works we do offer towards his name or power .

Just the opposite of those in the Mathew 7 parable. They took it upon themselves not called by the Father. Jesus did not say the works were not done. He is not served by human hands as a will in that way. Jesus said not as I will but as our unseen Father wills


Mathew 7 21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Again God can use a unbeliever to do His will

 

[Beetow]

As if hell isn't bad enough, people are in it as their selves; viz: they are never going
to be free from their own personalities-- their phobias, their hang-ups, their inner
conflicts, their memories, their anger, their hostility, their rivalries, their prejudice,
their bias, their angst, their gender issues, their resentments, their regrets, their
disappointments, their bitterness, their animosity, their passions, and their
appetites.

Hell is even more of a hell than you might think because, having missed out on the
regeneration about which Christ spoke at John 3:3-8, people take who they are
right along with them down there.

Thus; suicide is not a good way to relieve depression. Depressed people and/or
despondent people, take that low state of mind right along with them to the other
side; and their sorrow will be even more intensified in fire when they realize that as
bad as things were up here on the surface, their situation up here wasn't nearly as
bad as their situation down below.

You can escape poor health via death, you can escape credit card debt, you can
escape an abusive spouse, you can escape taxes, you can escape a physical
handicap, you can escape pimples, you can escape a bully, you can escape despots
and tyrants, you can escape a life of neither promise nor future, you can escape
prison, you can escape grinding poverty, and you can escape the Mafioso; but
nobody can escape themselves.

You've made this day a special day, by just your being you.
There's no person in the whole world like you;
And I like you just the way you are.
- Fred Rogers, a.k.a. Mister Rogers -

Well; I appreciate Fred's work with children; but the fact of the matter is: there are
grown-ups out there who do not feel special nor do they particularly like the way
they are; and that's never going to change should they end up in the wrong place
when they leave this life.

UPDATE: 230 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 14,288,520 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- Lots of what you said, I'd agree with. However, you're Also suggesting that committing suicide will put a person in hell. Killing one's self -- for whatever the reason will not send that person to hell.

That which Does is not accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and Lord.

People who kill other people -- or themselves -- only end up in hell Because they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal SAvior.

There Are Jail / prison ministries -- believers going into those environments to minister to the inmates who Do -- lots of times -- hear the Gospel and do come to Christ.

There Are a couple of books I'd suggest for adults -- The Search for Signfiance and Connecting by Dr. Larry Crabb. And, reading through the Prison Epistles. Galations, Ephesians, Phillippians, Collosians. Fairly short but very good books.

 

[Beetow]

• 2Cor 5:11 . . Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

The Greek word translated "knowing" means to know firsthand, viz: by experience
rather than by education and/or instruction.

In other words; there were incidents at various times in the lives of Paul and his
contemporaries when God frightened them, i.e. scared 'em out of their wits.

I have been challenged on occasion as to how I know for sure that my religion is
true. Well; there's nothing like a good old fashioned close encounter of a third kind
to convince even the most resistant skeptics; and Paul's history attests that his was
a really stubborn case.

Of course if any of us were to claim to "know" the terror of the Lord, we'd be
singled out as kooks and crackpots; but for some of us, fear is the only persuasion
that works.
_

 

[Sue D.]

The rest of that verse "Knowing therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your conscience."

Vs 10 "For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."

I'd Rather experience the blessings of God. I Have experienced the Holy Spirit speaking to me in my heart letting me know that 'everything Will be okay'.

John 3:16 "For God so loved/ loves the world/ you and I / that He gave...... that who so ever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life."