But we Do have the choice of how we respond To the attraction.
Effeminate men will not inherit the Kingdom of God
- Thread starter B-A-C
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Jonathan_Gale
Active
“Saints go to heaven, ain’ts go to hell” is not from the Bible, but from the RCC. Pope’s word does matter if this view is deeply ingrained in your brain. God’s word is resurrection here on earth - by the same power that resurrected Jesus.
Jonathan_Gale
Active
This is a tone of defeat, a mentality of victomhood. What about “I can do all things through Christ?”
Jesus Christ
Both places are eternal.
Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead because He was the Son of God. And He rose again bodily on the third day.
And after 40 days ,Jesus Christ ascended back up to heaven sitting at the right hand of God the Father.
And at some point in the future , Jesus christ will come in the sky and gather up to Himself all born-again believers both dead and alive from this world to be with Him . It's called the rapture.
It definitely Is from the Bible. Born-again believers Do go to heaven . Non-believers do go to hell.
Both places are eternal.
Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead because He was the Son of God. And He rose again bodily on the third day.
And after 40 days ,Jesus Christ ascended back up to heaven sitting at the right hand of God the Father.
And at some point in the future , Jesus christ will come in the sky and gather up to Himself all born-again believers both dead and alive from this world to be with Him . It's called the rapture.
Jonathan_Gale
Active
The individual does have the capacity to recognize Satan’s social engineering and resist it.
Jonathan_Gale
Active
No, it’s called the millennial kingdom, here on earth, not up in heaven.
Jonathan_Gale
Active
Then we have to agree to disagree, not only because this derails the thread, but this is an erroneous understanding of the Scripture. The church is not appointed to the wrath of God because we'll all be dead by the time of the Great Tribulation. Holy Spirit as the "restrainer" will be removed, 2 Thess. 2:7. That's why when Christ returns in 1 Thess. 4:16-17, THOSE who are dead will rise first. That's us. Christ only returns once, not twice. Any teaching that suggests he will return more than once is from the devil.
B-A-C
Loyal
I disagree with Sue about rapture timing as well. But not because we'll all be dead, and not because the Holy Spirit is the "restrainer". Christians will come out of the great tribulation. The Bible says so.
Rev 7:9; After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
So all Christians won't be dead.
Rev 9:3; Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4; They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Rev 9:5; And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.
It appears there will be people with the "seal of God" on their foreheads, and they will be protected from the plagues. ( But they could still be beheaded ).
How can there still be people who belong to God during this time if everyone already dead?
Rev 13:4; they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"
Rev 13:5; There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.
Rev 13:6; And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7; It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
Why are there still saints around for the beast to overcome if everyone is dead before this time?
2Thes 2:2; that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Thes 2:3; Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Thes 2:6; And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
2Thes 2:7; For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
The problem with the Holy Spirit being what restrains. Is that He would be taken away. How can there be any Christians to come out of the tribulation if the Holy Spirit is already gone?
Finally...
1Thes 4:14; For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
1Thes 4:15; For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Thes 4:16; For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
It says here that some Christians will be "alive and remain until" Jesus comes back. How can that be, if everyone is already dead?
Jonathan_Gale
Active
This depends on your bible translation. From what I know, "THE great tribulation" therein is translated as "great tribulations", plural, which means all trials and tribulations throughout church history, therefore this great multitude will also include all christians in the past 2000 plus years, otherwise it's just the end time generation, everybody else before them were dead in vain.
Not convincing. Read the text about the fifth and the sixth seal right after the four horsemen. John saw the souls of dead saints crying out for vengeance.
This "we" are the Jews who'll be the last to receive the gospel and accept Jesus - "the last will become first and the first last." They'll worship the Beast as the messiah instead, and they'll be preserved - until they see the real messiah returns, then "the tribes of the earth will mourn."
KingJ
Loyal
Insane to even say that. @Hekuran is 100% dodging the fact that pedophiles say the same thing.
''I can't help that I was born attracted to little children''. What of beastiality? ''I can't help the fact that I am attracted to a donkey''. When you put those words on paper it is somehow completely different to what Hekuran is saying?? LMAO, no.
Ignore Hekuran, I am convinced he is trolling.
KingJ
Loyal
Sorry Hekuran, thats a bit harsh.
But, seriously dude, if you were not a regular here I would think you were. Your stance is truly un-Christian. The flesh is at war with the spirit, that is Christianity 101.
Hekuran
Faithful Brother in Christ
I'm not trolling, I'm serious and committed to what I'm saying.
Listen to the experiences of gay Christians who have committed to a life of celibacy. They have faithfully chosen a hard road, and the demeaning comments in this thread don't help at all.
Jonathan_Gale
Active
This gay right movement is Satan's scheme to upend the institution of traditional marriage, those "gay christians" must have drunken their Kool Aid and passed the point of no return.
Hekuran
Faithful Brother in Christ
This thread is not about the gay rights movement.
You are speaking of my friends and your Christian brothers and sisters. May I ask you to be a bit less free with the insulting language.
B-A-C
Loyal
There are no gay Christians.
I agree we shouldn't be insulting people, no matter what sexual preferences they have. But again.. if they are gay, they aren't Christian brothers and sisters.
Homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God
It seems that homosexuality has been covered quite a bit more than fornication and adultery here on TalkJesus over the last decade or so. On one hand people seem to think it is a worse sin than fornication and adultery... and it is.... Lev 18:22; 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with...
www.talkjesus.com
This is the same as saying "My Christian pedophile brothers". "My Christian serial killer sisters". "My Christian Nazi White Supremacist brothers".
Now I'm sure there are Christians who might say I used to be one of those people. But I'm not anymore.
Becoming a Christian involves conversion, a change of mind, a change of heart. A change of desires. You can't change this on your own.
But God changes people!! I have seen it, I know people who used to say they were gay, but now are married (hetero) even have biological (non-adopted) children and lead happy lives.
To say people can't change is to deny the power of God. What you're really saying here is.. "Once a homo, always a homo". That is a lie straight from Satan.
Hekuran
Faithful Brother in Christ
I'm shocked. Am I right to say your view is that no-one who is same-sex attracted can enter the Kingdom of God?There are no gay Christians.
I agree we shouldn't be insulting people, no matter what sexual preferences they have. But again.. if they are gay, they aren't Christian brothers and sisters.
Homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God
It seems that homosexuality has been covered quite a bit more than fornication and adultery here on TalkJesus over the last decade or so. On one hand people seem to think it is a worse sin than fornication and adultery... and it is.... Lev 18:22; 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with...
What biblical basis do you have for such an extreme position?
I know of the places in the Bible where same-sex acts are spoken against, but nowhere is a person condemned for same-sex attraction.
B-A-C
Loyal
1Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Not just my view. God's view. It sounds like you are one of the "deceived" the verse above is speaking of. I can't make it any plainer than that.
1Tim 1:9; realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers
1Tim 1:10; and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,
There are no homosexual Christians, if you are a homosexual, you are under the penalty of the law. Not my words, scripture.
Lev 18:22; 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Lev 18:29; 'For whoever does any of these abominations, those persons who do so shall be cut off from among God's people.
Rom 1:18; For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19; because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
Rom 1:20; For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21; For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22; Professing to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23; and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
Rom 1:24; Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
Rom 1:25; For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 1:26; For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27; and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:28; And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
Rom 1:29; being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
Rom 1:30; slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31; without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
Rom 1:32; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
The "wrath of God" is against these people. How's that for condemnation?
"Those who practice such things are worthy of death." How's that for condemnation?
Three times in this passage it says "God gave them over"... God says this is what you want to do.. fine. I'm done with you. How's that for condemnation?
1Thes 4:3; For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;
1Thes 4:4; that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,
1Thes 4:5; not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God;
1Thes 4:8; So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
If you're continuing in your "lustful passion". You are rejecting God, even though you may not know you are.
Hekuran
Faithful Brother in Christ
Those Bible verses do not back up your argument. In some cases they contradict it.
The passages from 1 Timothy and 1 Corinthians use the Greek word "arsenokoitais" which in English is translated homosexuals. It means a man who has sex with men, or a pederast. Same with the Leviticus passage. Neither mention or condemn same-sex desire.
The Thessalonians passage condemns people who do not exercise self-control and abstain from sexual immorality.
[BIBLE]For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.[/BIBLE]
The assumption in this passage is that the people of Thessalonica will be tempted to sexual immorality, but that they must not give in to their lust.
If no one who has immoral desires can be a Christian, then I am counted out, and with me every honest man I know. We are called to tame those desires, flee temptation and pursue holiness.
The passages from 1 Timothy and 1 Corinthians use the Greek word "arsenokoitais" which in English is translated homosexuals. It means a man who has sex with men, or a pederast. Same with the Leviticus passage. Neither mention or condemn same-sex desire.
The Thessalonians passage condemns people who do not exercise self-control and abstain from sexual immorality.
[BIBLE]For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.[/BIBLE]
The assumption in this passage is that the people of Thessalonica will be tempted to sexual immorality, but that they must not give in to their lust.
If no one who has immoral desires can be a Christian, then I am counted out, and with me every honest man I know. We are called to tame those desires, flee temptation and pursue holiness.
Take a look at 1st Corinthians 6: 9- 11.
Isn't it the lifestyle of those things that would shoe a lack of unrighteousness on the person's part.
It's not the attraction that is wrong its how a person reacts towards it.
There are people who feel they were born that way and so God understands their following through with that same-sex relationship. Even though God's Word says it putrid in His eyes. An abomination to Him.
Isn't it the lifestyle of those things that would shoe a lack of unrighteousness on the person's part.
It's not the attraction that is wrong its how a person reacts towards it.
There are people who feel they were born that way and so God understands their following through with that same-sex relationship. Even though God's Word says it putrid in His eyes. An abomination to Him.