Effeminate men will not inherit the Kingdom of God

[B-A-C]

Do you think it's a choice you have the capacity to make? Could you personally decide to switch your attraction to men? I don't think I'd be able to.

??? I was talking about sexual attraction, not drag queens.

I was trying to steer the thread back to effeminate men, not sexual attraction... but the same principle applies.

Maybe people can't change their sexual attractions ( at least not on their own ) But God can change them.
To say they can't be changed, is to deny the power of God to change people.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I was trying to steer the thread back to effeminate men, not sexual attraction... but the same principle applies.

Maybe people can't change their sexual attractions ( at least not on their own ) But God can change them.
To say they can't be changed, is to deny the power of God to change people.

Or rather, one can pull his head out of the gutter by changing sexual attraction to NORMAL attraction. In another word, admiration.

 

[Hekuran]

I was trying to steer the thread back to effeminate men, not sexual attraction... but the same principle applies.

Maybe people can't change their sexual attractions ( at least not on their own ) But God can change them.
To say they can't be changed, is to deny the power of God to change people.

Your original question, back in post #21 was 'Can a person "choose" to be LGBT? Or are they truly "born that way"'

I am trying to keep it simple. My answer is that same sex attraction is not a choice.

 

[Sue D.]

A person can be attracted to most anyone. It's the person's choice as to how they respond to that attraction. No one says there has to be a sexual response.
It's not a sin to be attracted-- an inappropriate response that can be sinful.

 

[KingJ]

Sexual orientation is not a choice. I did not choose to be heterosexual, I am heterosexual. It's the same for people who are same-sex attracted.

You truly believe the underlined?

This is not what the bible teaches.

Perverting God's creation ''IS'' a choice. It is called giving in to the lustful desires of your flesh Gal 5:16. Desires that can be influenced by anyone. Certainly not scripture or God.

It ''IS'' something that can get you into hell according to scripture Rom 8:13. It is most certainly not the way God created us or His plan for anyone's life. That is why, it gets you into hell.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You truly believe the underlined?

This is not what the bible teaches.

Perverting God's creation ''IS'' a choice. It is called giving in to the lustful desires of your flesh Gal 5:16. Desires that can be influenced by anyone. Certainly not scripture or God.

It ''IS'' something that can get you into hell according to scripture Rom 8:13. It is most certainly not the way God created us or His plan for anyone's life. That is why, it gets you into hell.

Great, here we go again, back to the original sin debate. Perverting God's creation is NOT a choice, it's our natural state. We're all dead in our trespasses - until we're saved by Christ who died for our sin of perverting God's creation. Whethere we accept this gift or not, that, IS a choice.

 

[KingJ]

Great, here we go again, back to the original sin debate. Perverting God's creation is NOT a choice, it's our natural state. We're all dead in our trespasses - until we're saved by Christ who died for our sin of perverting God's creation. Whethere we accept this gift or not, that, IS a choice.

This is not an original sin argument. It is simply you teaching that babies and children can be guilty of sin that warrants eternal hell / annihilation. As such it a discussion of 'painful' common sense we need before one on 'original sin'.

In the context of your view on original sin (babies can murder and be found guilty of the death penalty ), the same logic would apply.

As for a baby having sin, another argument you raise on original sin. Well that is a moot argument as scripture clearly teaches that each will be punished for what 'they' did. No parent giving in to the sin of homosexuality will pass the punishment of eternal hell on to their child (unless that is what you believe, which I certainly hope not).

Rom 2:6 God will repay each person according to what they have done.
Psalm 94:23 He will repay them for their sins and destroy them for their wickedness; the LORD our God will destroy them.

 

[KingJ]

Great, here we go again, back to the original sin debate. Perverting God's creation is NOT a choice, it's our natural state. We're all dead in our trespasses - until we're saved by Christ who died for our sin of perverting God's creation. Whethere we accept this gift or not, that, IS a choice.

You would also come to 'reality' faster if you simply googled children's view of sex.

Today many wicked people are indoctrinating our kids with unhealthy and biased sex education at a very young age. An age at which sex should be the absolutely last thing on their mind.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

This is not an original sin argument. It is simply you teaching that babies and children can be guilty of sin that warrants eternal hell / annihilation. As such it a discussion of 'painful' common sense we need before one on 'original sin'.

In the context of your view on original sin (babies can murder and be found guilty of the death penalty ), the same logic would apply.

As for a baby having sin, another argument you raise on original sin. Well that is a moot argument as scripture clearly teaches that each will be punished for what 'they' did. No parent giving in to the sin of homosexuality will pass the punishment of eternal hell on to their child (unless that is what you believe, which I certainly hope not).

Rom 2:6 God will repay each person according to what they have done.
Psalm 94:23 He will repay them for their sins and destroy them for their wickedness; the LORD our God will destroy them.

It doesn't matter it's their own sin or other people's sin, the outcome is the same - sin. Christ doesn't play the blame game, He doesn't argue with the discipels whose sin it was, all He cares about is saving people from sin - including babies and children. That's the gist of John 9:1-3, and you never get it.

And by the way, I've never mentioned baby, nor do I intend to derail this thread, but you immediately go there. Seems like you just don't have any other tricks up in your sleeve.

 

[Sue D.]

A person has to be old enough know right from wrong. Babies have to concept of sin until they are at least 6 or 7 yrs old. It's called the age of accountability.

 

[Hekuran]

You truly believe the underlined?

This is not what the bible teaches.

Perverting God's creation ''IS'' a choice. It is called giving in to the lustful desires of your flesh Gal 5:16. Desires that can be influenced by anyone. Certainly not scripture or God.

It ''IS'' something that can get you into hell according to scripture Rom 8:13. It is most certainly not the way God created us or His plan for anyone's life. That is why, it gets you into hell.

Yes, I believe that. Some people are attracted to people of the same sex. It's not something they choose.

Nothing in the Bible contradicts this.

 

[KingJ]

Yes, I believe that. Some people are attracted to people of the same sex. It's not something they choose.

Nothing in the Bible contradicts this.

It is something they choose.

I chose sexual immorality before I was saved. There is a period as a child where you are naive and innocent of sex. Then you become aware....and choose what is natural or unnatural. As men are biologically different to woman, they have got a natural attraction for woman and woman for men. It is God's design. To object to this is to mock and insult God's design. Animals get it right. Design....!

Children are impacted by their surroundings. Children that do not grow up in a Godly environment will be impacted in the wrong direction.

Saying it is not something you choose is to suppose that there is scientific evidence of a preference toward same sex from birth.

According to scripture, biology and the eyes God gave us, there is evidence of heterosexuality at birth. ''God made them male and female'''.

You are parroting a statement from the LGBTQ community that has absolutely no actual substance and is not based in science or biology.
___________

Pedophiles make the same argument, just google it. ''I was born with a sexual attraction for little children''.

Absolute hogwash. I expected better from you Hekuran.
__________

Do you teach that pedophiles also ''don't choose'?

 

[KingJ]

It doesn't matter it's their own sin or other people's sin, the outcome is the same - sin. Christ doesn't play the blame game, He doesn't argue with the discipels whose sin it was, all He cares about is saving people from sin - including babies and children. That's the gist of John 9:1-3, and you never get it.

And by the way, I've never mentioned baby, nor do I intend to derail this thread, but you immediately go there. Seems like you just don't have any other tricks up in your sleeve.

Jonathon, you believe babies do not go to heaven. I mean this in the nicest way possible, sorry I have absolutely no time to discuss this idiocy. I have wasted enough time with you on the topic.

I pray you come to realize that it is an epic failure of common sense and insinuates God is wicked.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Jonathon, you believe babies do not go to heaven. I mean this in the nicest way possible, sorry I have absolutely no time to discuss this idiocy. I have wasted enough time with you on the topic.

I pray you come to realize that it is an epic failure of common sense and insinuates God is wicked.

Sir, with all due respect, you’re the one who immediately went to “babies” and your assertion of them going to heaven. By asserting “babies go to heaven,” you’re implying that babies better be dead so they could go to heaven with absolute certainty. And you repeatedly curse God as wicked. Don’t pin any of it on me. I’m tired of it as well, the feeling is mutual.

 

[Hekuran]

It is something they choose.

I chose sexual immorality before I was saved. There is a period as a child where you are naive and innocent of sex. Then you become aware....and choose what is natural or unnatural. As men are biologically different to woman, they have got a natural attraction for woman and woman for men. It is God's design. To object to this is to mock and insult God's design. Animals get it right. Design....!

Children are impacted by their surroundings. Children that do not grow up in a Godly environment will be impacted in the wrong direction.

Saying it is not something you choose is to suppose that there is scientific evidence of a preference toward same sex from birth.

According to scripture, biology and the eyes God gave us, there is evidence of heterosexuality at birth. ''God made them male and female'''.

You are parroting a statement from the LGBTQ community that has absolutely no actual substance and is not based in science or biology.
___________

Pedophiles make the same argument, just google it. ''I was born with a sexual attraction for little children''.

Absolute hogwash. I expected better from you Hekuran.
__________

Do you teach that pedophiles also ''don't choose'?

I am not objecting to God's design. But some people are same sex attracted and its6 not by choice. Talk to a few gay or lesbian people and hear what they say - i dont think youll hear them talking about a decision to be attracted to the same sex.

I know a prominent church leader of a conservative evangelical church who is attracted to men. He's committed to a life of chastity as a result. I'm sure if he could simply make a decision to desire women, marry and have a family he would.

 

[Sue D.]

Every single person should be celebate until they are married to someone of the opposite sex .

And as far as babies going to heaven-- are they capable of understanding right from wrong? Is a baby capable of speech / praying? If a baby gets sick or is a fatality in an accident he or she will go to heaven. Babiesbehonget aborted go to heaven.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Every single person should be celebate until they are married to someone of the opposite sex .

And as far as babies going to heaven-- are they capable of understanding right from wrong? Is a baby capable of speech / praying? If a baby gets sick or is a fatality in an accident he or she will go to heaven. Babiesbehonget aborted go to heaven.

You know, "babies go to heaven" is just a strawman argument. Heaven is God's throne, why not let God our creator who formed every baby in their mother's womb decide - instead of making assumptions based on our own ideas? This talking point from KingJ, "babies sinless, adults sinful" is very disturbing, as I pointed out, it's like preventing them from entering into "sinful adulthood" by wishing them death while they're still in their infancy.

 

[Sue D.]

Does a baby know right from wrong ?

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Does a baby know right from wrong ?

Knowing right from wrong ain't gonna bring anybody to God or even just an inch closer to God. Knowing right from wrong doesn't get anybody saved. As a matter of fact, it turned Adam and Eve AWAY from God. What you should ask is, do a baby's parents and caretakers know right from wrong? 'Cause they're the ones who can make a difference between life and death.

 

[KingJ]

I am not objecting to God's design. But some people are same sex attracted and its6 not by choice. Talk to a few gay or lesbian people and hear what they say - i dont think youll hear them talking about a decision to be attracted to the same sex.

I know a prominent church leader of a conservative evangelical church who is attracted to men. He's committed to a life of chastity as a result. I'm sure if he could simply make a decision to desire women, marry and have a family he would.

I was in sexual immorality before I was saved and I dated a lady that went lesbian so I do know all about this ungodliness.

I told you that pedophiles make exactly the same argument. I see you avoiding that fact.