Effeminate men will not inherit the Kingdom of God

[KingJ]

You know, "babies go to heaven" is just a strawman argument. Heaven is God's throne, why not let God our creator who formed every baby in their mother's womb decide - instead of making assumptions based on our own ideas? This talking point from KingJ, "babies sinless, adults sinful" is very disturbing, as I pointed out, it's like preventing them from entering into "sinful adulthood" by wishing them death while they're still in their infancy.

All babies will have a chance to grow up and choose to sin or not. God is impartial Acts 10:34.

You believe God will send babies to a fire that will destroy them. You fail the discussion before it even gets started.

Then even though you are given scripture clearly stating each of us are responsible for our ''OWN'' sin, you still make a statement that we enter adulthood with sin.

Jonathon, your logic is so flawed, you need to sit back and re-think your belief on this matter.

 

[KingJ]

Sir, with all due respect, you’re the one who immediately went to “babies” and your assertion of them going to heaven. By asserting “babies go to heaven,” you’re implying that babies better be dead so they could go to heaven with absolute certainty. And you repeatedly curse God as wicked. Don’t pin any of it on me. I’m tired of it as well, the feeling is mutual.

You are trying to make the argument that it is fine for God to kill babies because if He doesn't, we will kill them and guarantee they go to heaven....

You are jumping to an assumption of a statement I made. Your assumption is just as absurd as your belief of original sin.

Whilst it is true that babies go straight to heaven, it is also true that God is impartial Acts 10:34.

As such, babies too will have a chance to grow up into adulthood. Now scripture hints heavily at this being the millennium period. Rev 20:3 for example mentions the devil being released from the bottomless pit to tempt mankind for the last time.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You are trying to make the argument that it is fine for God to kill babies because if He doesn't, we will kill them and guarantee they go to heaven....

You are jumping to an assumption of a statement I made. Your assumption is just as absurd as your belief of original sin.

Whilst it is true that babies go straight to heaven, it is also true that God is impartial Acts 10:34.

As such, babies too will have a chance to grow up into adulthood. Now scripture hints heavily at this being the millennium period. Rev 20:3 for example mentions the devil being released from the bottomless pit to tempt mankind for the last time.

All babies will have a chance to grow up and choose to sin or not. God is impartial Acts 10:34.

You believe God will send babies to a fire that will destroy them. You fail the discussion before it even gets started.

Then even though you are given scripture clearly stating each of us are responsible for our ''OWN'' sin, you still make a statement that we enter adulthood with sin.

Jonathon, your logic is so flawed, you need to sit back and re-think your belief on this matter.

You're the one who wishes them dead so they can "go to heaven", not me. And last time I checked in Jn. 3, being born, as a baby, doesn't guarantee a ticket to heaven, being born AGAIN does. I didn't say this to you, Jesus said that to Nicodimus.

 

[Hekuran]

I was in sexual immorality before I was saved and I dated a lady that went lesbian so I do know all about this ungodliness.

I told you that pedophiles make exactly the same argument. I see you avoiding that fact.

I'm not avoiding, just not wanting to wander away from the original question B-A-C posed. Also, I've not spoken directly to paedophiles about their sexual attraction and experience, so I don't have much to offer on the subject.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I am not objecting to God's design. But some people are same sex attracted and its6 not by choice. Talk to a few gay or lesbian people and hear what they say - i dont think youll hear them talking about a decision to be attracted to the same sex.

I know a prominent church leader of a conservative evangelical church who is attracted to men. He's committed to a life of chastity as a result. I'm sure if he could simply make a decision to desire women, marry and have a family he would.

You should ask why that pastor can't see any other qualities in those men but a fix to satisfy his own lust. "Born this way" is an excuse for such a state of debased mind.

 

[Hekuran]

You should ask why that pastor can't see any other qualities in those men but a fix to satisfy his own lust. "Born this way" is an excuse for such a state of debased mind.

You should ask yourself why you have assumed that he cannot see any qualities in men other than those that relate to sexual appetites.

And yes, he's had a lifetime of insensitive and ignorant comments like that.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You should ask yourself why you have assumed that he cannot see any qualities in men other than those that relate to sexual appetites.

And yes, he's had a lifetime of insensitive and ignorant comments like that.

Because that's the foregone conclusion of being SEXUALLY attracted to other people of the same gender. You just can't see the difference bettwen attraction and SEXUAL attraction, can you.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

You are trying to make the argument that it is fine for God to kill babies because if He doesn't, we will kill them and guarantee they go to heaven....

You are jumping to an assumption of a statement I made. Your assumption is just as absurd as your belief of original sin.

Whilst it is true that babies go straight to heaven, it is also true that God is impartial Acts 10:34.

As such, babies too will have a chance to grow up into adulthood. Now scripture hints heavily at this being the millennium period. Rev 20:3 for example mentions the devil being released from the bottomless pit to tempt mankind for the last time.

Actually, I don't believe that anybody can go to heaven, I believe in resurrection on earth. But why do we let that divide us? We have more in common than our differences. At least we both oppose this "born this way" excuse in this thread.

 

[Sue D.]

Can a baby pray ? The only thing a baby understands is that he or she is feeling pain and the adult know he or she is hungry and feeds the baby. And changes the diaper. Very basic needs. A baby has no concept of its need for salvation .

God doesn't kill babies so they can go to heaven. But accidents Do happen -- they do get sick and die -- and People perform abortions killing babies.

Do babies go to heaven if they die -- absolutely yes.

A lot of churches have baby dedications for parents with infants during a church service. It's not sprinkling the baby -- all that does is get the babies head wet.

A person needs to be able to understand what salvation is / what it means. And chooses to accept or reject God's way of salvation.

 

[Sue D.]

Actually, I don't believe that anybody can go to heaven, I believe in resurrection on earth. But why do we let that divide us? We have more in common than our differences. At least we both oppose this "born this way" excuse in this thread.

Because it's an erroneous belief. God's Word says that every person has either eternity in heaven or hell. And it'd our choice as to where a person ends up.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Because it's an erroneous belief. God's Word says that every person has either eternity in heaven or hell. And it'd our choice as to where a person ends up.

God's word or pope's word? Yeah, New Jerusalem and Lake of Fire, eventually, but there's a thousand years of God's kingdom BEFORE that. Every person either enters into the kingdom or remains dead until the 1000 years' over, that's plainly stated in Rev. 20.

 

[Hekuran]

Because that's the foregone conclusion of being SEXUALLY attracted to other people of the same gender. You just can't see the difference bettwen attraction and SEXUAL attraction, can you.

Absolute nonsense. Of course people who are same-sex attracted can and do appreciate qualities beyond sexual desire. My colleagues who are gay may or may not be sexually attracted to me (I guess not). But they appreciate kindness, competence, trustworthiness and readiness to support others, the same as anybody else would.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Absolute nonsense. Of course people who are same-sex attracted can and do appreciate qualities beyond sexual desire. My colleagues who are gay may or may not be sexually attracted to me (I guess not). But they appreciate kindness, competence, trustworthiness and readiness to support others, the same as anybody else would.

What's really sad about this is identity politics. Have you ever thought about why "sexual orientation" could become THE defining charater over all other qualities you mentioned? Why do you identify your colleagues as gays before kind, competent, trustworthy buddies at work? Why is that the first thing you noticed about them and identified them with? You see, I'm not here to judge anybody, I'm just a sinner as everybody else in need of Christ; I'm here to point finger at this way oy stinking thinking, this obsession, this twisted paradigm, because that is the real nonsense.

 

[Hekuran]

What's really sad about this is identity politics. Have you ever thought about why "sexual orientation" could become THE defining charater over all other qualities you mentioned? Why do you identify them as gay before a kind, competent, trustworthy buddy at work? Why is that the first thing you noticed about them and identified them with? You see, I'm not here to judge anybody, I'm just a sinner as everybody else in need of Christ; I'm here to point finger at this way oy stinking thinking, this obsession, this twisted paradigm, because that is the real nonsense.

Again, you are making assumptions and getting it wrong. The subject matter is answering the question, "do people choose their sexual orientation" that's why I am mentioning people's sexuality. With my colleagues I am far less interested in their sex lives than whether they do their job well.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Can a baby pray ? The only thing a baby understands is that he or she is feeling pain and the adult know he or she is hungry and feeds the baby. And changes the diaper. Very basic needs. A baby has no concept of its need for salvation .

God doesn't kill babies so they can go to heaven. But accidents Do happen -- they do get sick and die -- and People perform abortions killing babies.

Do babies go to heaven if they die -- absolutely yes.

A lot of churches have baby dedications for parents with infants during a church service. It's not sprinkling the baby -- all that does is get the babies head wet.

A person needs to be able to understand what salvation is / what it means. And chooses to accept or reject God's way of salvation.

You believe in what you want, ma'am. All I know is John 3:3 - "Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Not born, but born AGAIN.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Again, you are making assumptions and getting it wrong. The subject matter is answering the question, "do people choose their sexual orientation" that's why I am mentioning people's sexuality. With my colleagues I am far less interested in their sex lives than whether they do their job well.

No, the real question is, "do people choose their sin of lust", and the answer is in James 1:13-15. "Control the word, control the mind," ever heard of that? Our language is being corrupted day by day. "Sexual orientation" is Big Brother's newspeak designed to make you confused. You pick up their jargon, you lose already.

 

[KingJ]

I'm not avoiding, just not wanting to wander away from the original question B-A-C posed. Also, I've not spoken directly to paedophiles about their sexual attraction and experience, so I don't have much to offer on the subject.

A lesbian says they were born attracted to woman. A pedophile makes the same claim, they were born attracted to children.

I have researched this and I will save you the time. Gays and lesbians hate the fact that pedophiles want to make the same claims of sexual orientation differences as they do. It is actually quite hilarious. The fact that pedophiles have the same claim to sexual preference as gays and lesbians makes it crystal clear that one's preference is your will. A will that is giving in to lusts of the flesh. Lusts that are ungodly.

My heart does certainly go out to all in sexual sin. When I was in it I had a long chat with God about it. A nun said I was going to hell. So that evening I spoke to God. Explained that I could not give it up, it is what I wanted and desired. I could not see myself living a life without it. I said to God that if this got me to hell, then He made me for hell. God spoke to me that evening and said I must take one step back and just think on Him. I did, I started praying and hymns my parents sang at church started entering my mind. ''Turn you eyes upon Jesus and the things of this world will grow strangely dim''. The next day I gave my life to Jesus. I have since then not once gone back to the sexual immorality that consumed me.

Sexual sin can be a bit more complex when compared to other sin. It is a sin that may not hurt a fellow person, but it is certainly a sin to God. One that makes Him very upset if we continue in it after He has offered us a helping hand. A real helping hand. God does not merely put positive thoughts in our mind, He truly miraculously helped me out of the sin.

James 4:8 comes to mind. ''Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded''.

 

[B-A-C]

Yes, I believe that. Some people are attracted to people of the same sex. It's not something they choose.

Nothing in the Bible contradicts this.

OK, let us say, for sake of argument this is true. Does God have the power to change them? Does the Holy Spirit have the power to convert them?
Or... do they have no choice but to remain in this condition for the rest of their lives?

2Cor 10:5; We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
1Jn 5:4; For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Rev 2:11; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'
1Cor 6:11; Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
1Cor 10:13; No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

 

[Hekuran]

OK, let us say, for sake of argument this is true. Does God have the power to change them? Does the Holy Spirit have the power to convert them?
Or... do they have no choice but to remain in this condition for the rest of their lives?

2Cor 10:5; We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
1Jn 5:4; For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Rev 2:11; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'
1Cor 6:11; Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
1Cor 10:13; No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

The Holy Spirit has the power to do all things.

But the individual does not have the capacity to choose their sexual attraction.

 

[Sue D.]

God's word or pope's word? Yeah, New Jerusalem and Lake of Fire, eventually, but there's a thousand years of God's kingdom BEFORE that. Every person either enters into the kingdom or remains dead until the 1000 years' over, that's plainly stated in Rev. 20.

Since I'm not RCC and the popes word does t matter. It's God's Word.

And yes there is the 1000 yr reign of Jesus Christ here on earth.

Revelation 20 starts out telling us that an angel will be coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit and a chain in his hand. He got hold of Satan and ound him for those 1000 yrs. So the world will have peace for those 1000 yrs. And then Satan is released temporarily. There will be a battle /Gog and Magog . God wins/ destroying the enemy. Rhe victory of Armageddon.
There is a lot of future yet to take place.