Stumbling in sin, versus falling away! Hebrews 6

[Dave M]

Hebrews 6
4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

I firmly believe that this is referring to a person who is born again, who is on there way to heaven, NO one becomes a partaker of the Holy spirit unless they are born again. no one is truly enlightened unless they are born again.

IF they fall away, I always wondered what falling away was versus sinning, because I know if we sin we can repent.

But I never realized the last part of verse 6 tells me what falling away is. Him is the, Holy Spirit, YAW. So if we openly put him to shame, that is falling away and your done you can no longer repent. Now we can also tie this verse to.

Luke 12 -10
10. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

But repentance, when we are convicted by sin, we know we have a advocate in Jesus. That we can go to the thrown room of God by and through Jesus to ask for forgiveness.

John 2-1
1. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

I do believe we are talking about loosing your salvation when you fall away, denying the power of God, openly denying the power of God.

I do believe that we all will stumble in sin on occasion, and it will convict us and turn to repent, and we will be forgiven.

I do believe every time Jesus says we must endure to the end he is speaking about salvation.

 

[Hannah1]

I have heard it explained as if you repent and you seem to not be able to, despite the best efforts, that there comes a point you can not.. that the heart got that hardened..
Then we have the lost son, who is welcomed by the Father..
There are plenty of people that knew the gospel and God and fell, for different reasons, or driven away, and then comes back to God and with a seal and the fruits are aoparent..

 

[Sue J Love]

Hebrews 6
4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

I firmly believe that this is referring to a person who is born again, who is on there way to heaven, NO one becomes a partaker of the Holy spirit unless they are born again. no one is truly enlightened unless they are born again.

IF they fall away, I always wondered what falling away was versus sinning, because I know if we sin we can repent.

But I never realized the last part of verse 6 tells me what falling away is. Him is the, Holy Spirit, YAW. So if we openly put him to shame, that is falling away and your done you can no longer repent. Now we can also tie this verse to.

Luke 12 -10
10. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

But repentance, when we are convicted by sin, we know we have a advocate in Jesus. That we can go to the thrown room of God by and through Jesus to ask for forgiveness.

John 2-1
1. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

I do believe we are talking about loosing your salvation when you fall away, denying the power of God, openly denying the power of God.

I do believe that we all will stumble in sin on occasion, and it will convict us and turn to repent, and we will be forgiven.

I do believe every time Jesus says we must endure to the end he is speaking about salvation.

Dave M - We read in the Scriptures that, as followers of Christ, it is possible that we might sin, but Jesus is our advocate, as you have already stated. But we also read in the Scriptures that the faith to believe in Christ is not of our own doing, but it comes from God, it is gifted to us by God, and it is persuaded of God. So God is the one to determine what that looks like. And His word teaches that if anyone would come after Him, he must deny self, take up his cross daily (die daily to sin and to self and suffer for the sake of righteousness) and follow Him in obedience. And then He goes on to say that we hold on to our old lives of sin, we will lose them for eternity, but if by faith in Christ we give up our lives of sin to follow our Lord in obedience to His commands, then we have life in Christ. Many Scriptures in the NT warn us that if sin is our practice, and not obedience to God, that we do not know God, we are not born of God, we are not in relationship with Jesus Christ, and we do not have salvation from sin and eternal life with God. And that is separating those who are of genuine faith from those who are not. But then it also talks about falling away which means we knew Christ, as you stated, and then we chose not to follow Christ, and that is a sin against the Holy Spirit. Because this is a person who has chosen to no longer be a follower of Christ. They have said "NO!" to God and "YES!" to sin and the flesh. And they have no intention of repenting. And God knows their hearts. He knows who has believed in him, had a temporary fall (like King David), but then repented and returned to the Lord, and who never knew Him to begin with although they professed His name, and those who did know Him but then turned away from Him never to return.

 

[KingJ]

Dave M - We read in the Scriptures that, as followers of Christ, it is possible that we might sin, but Jesus is our advocate, as you have already stated. But we also read in the Scriptures that the faith to believe in Christ is not of our own doing, but it comes from God, it is gifted to us by God, and it is persuaded of God. So God is the one to determine what that looks like. And His word teaches that if anyone would come after Him, he must deny self, take up his cross daily (die daily to sin and to self and suffer for the sake of righteousness) and follow Him in obedience. And then He goes on to say that we hold on to our old lives of sin, we will lose them for eternity, but if by faith in Christ we give up our lives of sin to follow our Lord in obedience to His commands, then we have life in Christ. Many Scriptures in the NT warn us that if sin is our practice, and not obedience to God, that we do not know God, we are not born of God, we are not in relationship with Jesus Christ, and we do not have salvation from sin and eternal life with God. And that is separating those who are of genuine faith from those who are not. But then it also talks about falling away which means we knew Christ, as you stated, and then we chose not to follow Christ, and that is a sin against the Holy Spirit. Because this is a person who has chosen to no longer be a follower of Christ. They have said "NO!" to God and "YES!" to sin and the flesh. And they have no intention of repenting. And God knows their hearts. He knows who has believed in him, had a temporary fall (like King David), but then repented and returned to the Lord, and who never knew Him to begin with although they professed His name, and those who did know Him but then turned away from Him never to return.

You are standing on both sides of the fence, you need to choose one. Either a true Christian can lose their salvation or they cannot.

Either we pass God's judgement of heart and mind Jer 17:9-11 and are gifted saving faith Rom 12:3, to believe Jesus is Lord 1 Cor 12:3, Rom 10:9 or we don't.

So which is it?

 

[KingJ]

Hebrews 6
4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

I firmly believe that this is referring to a person who is born again, who is on there way to heaven, NO one becomes a partaker of the Holy spirit unless they are born again. no one is truly enlightened unless they are born again.

IF they fall away, I always wondered what falling away was versus sinning, because I know if we sin we can repent.

But I never realized the last part of verse 6 tells me what falling away is. Him is the, Holy Spirit, YAW. So if we openly put him to shame, that is falling away and your done you can no longer repent. Now we can also tie this verse to.

Luke 12 -10
10. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

But repentance, when we are convicted by sin, we know we have a advocate in Jesus. That we can go to the thrown room of God by and through Jesus to ask for forgiveness.

John 2-1
1. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

I do believe we are talking about loosing your salvation when you fall away, denying the power of God, openly denying the power of God.

I do believe that we all will stumble in sin on occasion, and it will convict us and turn to repent, and we will be forgiven.

I do believe every time Jesus says we must endure to the end he is speaking about salvation.

I am always amused by posts from non-OSAS believers who do not seem to grasp or care how much their cherry-picking of Scripture misrepresents God.

I just have one question for you.

Do you believe the Scriptures that say God is just? If you do, how can you teach non-OSAS? If you don't, have you torn these Scriptures from your Bible?

Job 34:12 It is unthinkable that God do what is evil or pervert justice.

Non-OSAS teaches that God is unjust, as it suggests that Person A, who repents of their sins, accepts Jesus, and is chosen by God to remain on earth to serve Jesus for 50 years, can in year 51 commit sins, fall away, and go to eternal punishment, while Person B can, like the criminal next to Jesus on the cross, repent of their sins only and receive eternal bliss.

-----------------

Unless you can grasp and deal directly with the above fact, it is pointless to discuss this with you, as you would demonstrate that you are unable to engage in a meaningful debate.

 

[Dave M]

I am always amused by posts from non-OSAS believers who do not seem to grasp or care how much their cherry-picking of Scripture misrepresents God.

I just have one question for you.

Do you believe the Scriptures that say God is just? If you do, how can you teach non-OSAS? If you don't, have you torn these Scriptures from your Bible?

Job 34:12 It is unthinkable that God do what is evil or pervert justice.

Non-OSAS teaches that God is unjust, as it suggests that Person A, who repents of their sins, accepts Jesus, and is chosen by God to remain on earth to serve Jesus for 50 years, can in year 51 commit sins, fall away, and go to eternal punishment, while Person B can, like the criminal next to Jesus on the cross, repent of their sins only and receive eternal bliss.

-----------------

Unless you can grasp and deal directly with the above fact, it is pointless to discuss this with you, as you would demonstrate that you are unable to engage in a meaningful debate.

osas is of course true if you abide in Christ, but scripture teaches if you do not abide in Christ you will not inherit the kingdom of God. plain and simple.

 

[KingJ]

osas is of course true if you abide in Christ, but scripture teaches if you do not abide in Christ you will not inherit the kingdom of God. plain and simple.

That is a contradictory statement. You are not giving a direct answer to my question. You are dancing.

Imagine telling someone, Jesus said to the criminal on the cross who repented of his sins, that ''tonight you will be with me in paradise and receive eternal bliss, for as long as you abide in me, the day you don't I will kick you out and gift you eternal punishment like a dog I never knew''. Gospel according to Dave?

Do you not understand that if non-OSAS / requirement to abide is true it means there is no such thing as ''eternal'' bliss.

 

[Dave M]

we simply disagree,

thank you for your time.

Praise Jesus and thank him for eternal salvation to those who abide in Jesus! until the end.

 

[JunoTheServant]

Hebrews 6
4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

I firmly believe that this is referring to a person who is born again, who is on there way to heaven, NO one becomes a partaker of the Holy spirit unless they are born again. no one is truly enlightened unless they are born again.

IF they fall away, I always wondered what falling away was versus sinning, because I know if we sin we can repent.

But I never realized the last part of verse 6 tells me what falling away is. Him is the, Holy Spirit, YAW. So if we openly put him to shame, that is falling away and your done you can no longer repent. Now we can also tie this verse to.

You already bold and underline the little big word 'IF". What this is saying that it is impossible to renew someone who WAS enlightened by the heavenly gift. Many people read this and think it is saying that it's impossible for someone to not fall away after they get that gift. That is because people believed that's once saved always saved which is not what the bible teaches. You can always changed your mind and there are examples of this in the bible.

1 Samuel 10: 6, 10
6 And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

10 And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

This is Saul who received the gift of the holy ghost. Which meant he tasted of the heavenly gift and he was enlightedned because he knew the truth. However he decided to turn away from GOD.

1 Samuel 16: 14 - 15
14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

See how GOD's holy spirit left Saul after he disobeyed GOD? Then God sent an evil spirit after him. GOD has not changed this is why he made this statement.

Matthew 12: 43 - 45
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Why would the unclean Spirit leave in the first place? Because this person cleaned themselves up with the blood of Christ and got the gift of the holy ghost. However these evil spirits are always looking to go back home. If they come back and see you no longer have the holy spirit then he brings with him more evil spirit and that's the reason why it's impossble to renew someone who knows the truth. There are 3 unpardonable sins according to the bible, you cannot do or you are finished
1. Sin willfully after receiving the truth. (you are putting Christ to open shame if you do that).

Spoiler: Hebrews 10

Hebrews 10: 26 - 29
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

This is how you put Christ to an open shame.

2. Blashpeme the holy ghost
3. Take the mark of the beast or worship his image

You are a dead man or woman walking if you do any of these three things, you can be forgiven for anything else.

Luke 12 -10
10. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

But repentance, when we are convicted by sin, we know we have a advocate in Jesus. That we can go to the thrown room of God by and through Jesus to ask for forgiveness.

There is a difference between someone who sins willfully and someone who blasphemes the holy ghost.

Spoiler: John 8

John 8: 3 - 11
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Now Jesus just literally forgave this woman. Then he told her "go and sin no more". For the sake of the point I am trying to make if she went and committed adultery consistently then Jesus forgiving her meant nothing to her.

If you are truly sorry for having done wrong why go back and repeat the same thing over and over again? If that woman did that then she is classified as a willful sinner, not someone who blasphemed the holy ghost.
John 5: 14
14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

What worst thing? Well if he sins again, them unclean spirits will destroy him. When Saul turned away from GOD them unclean spirits messed him up until the day of his death.

Concerning Luke 12
When you blaspheme the holy ghost that means you teach against the word of God even though you know the truth. For example if a ministers knows Israel holds the oracles of God and goes to church and teach that God has cast away Israel then that minister is blaspheming the holy ghost because the bible states otherwise.

Romans chapter 1 speaks about men who hold the truth in unrighteousness. Hopefully you read it already so I won't discuss it. The point is that they know GOD's truth but instead they teach contrary because their goal is to make money, not teach about salvation.

I do believe we are talking about loosing your salvation when you fall away, denying the power of God, openly denying the power of God.

I do believe that we all will stumble in sin on occasion, and it will convict us and turn to repent, and we will be forgiven.

I do believe every time Jesus says we must endure to the end he is speaking about salvation.

If you know you got to endure until the end then how can you speak as though someone is saved already? Denying the power of God isn't the only thing you can do that cause you to lose salvation.

 

[Twistie]

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

Therefore a lion from the forest will slay them,
A wolf of the deserts will destroy them,
A leopard is watching their cities.
Everyone who goes out of them will be torn in pieces,
Because their transgressions are many,
Their apostasies are numerous.
“Why should I pardon you?
Your sons have forsaken Me
And sworn by those who are not gods.
When I had fed them to the full,
They committed adultery
And trooped to the harlot’s house.

I believe many are following the ways of man and their feelings over the ways of the Lord..

People seem to just choose the part of the word that come easy to them that allow them to be comfortable to mingle with Darkness instead of turning from it..

Many follow man sadly...most Synagogues (churches) keep their people spiritually immature the leader cant show them the way cause they themselves have not entered through the door.. they are simply peddlers of the word the seol the Lord week in n week out to feed themselves their worldly desires..

Many follow a deceiving Spirit n dont know it cause they have not allowed the Lord to lead them .

We are all just brothers and sisters no one is above another its written my nation is a nation of priest.. priest dont pay tides to another priest...im just saying...

Did ya know the purpose of the building was to protect the Altar it was the Alter that was named not the building..im j.s.

Hope alls well ...

ƪ⁠(⁠˘⁠⌣⁠˘⁠)⁠ʃ

 

[KingJ]

You already bold and underline the little big word 'IF". What this is saying that it is impossible to renew someone who WAS enlightened by the heavenly gift. Many people read this and think it is saying that it's impossible for someone to not fall away after they get that gift. That is because people believed that's once saved always saved which is not what the bible teaches. You can always changed your mind and there are examples of this in the bible.

1 Samuel 10: 6, 10
6 And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

10 And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

This is Saul who received the gift of the holy ghost. Which meant he tasted of the heavenly gift and he was enlightedned because he knew the truth. However he decided to turn away from GOD.

1 Samuel 16: 14 - 15
14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

See how GOD's holy spirit left Saul after he disobeyed GOD? Then God sent an evil spirit after him. GOD has not changed this is why he made this statement.

Matthew 12: 43 - 45
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Why would the unclean Spirit leave in the first place? Because this person cleaned themselves up with the blood of Christ and got the gift of the holy ghost. However these evil spirits are always looking to go back home. If they come back and see you no longer have the holy spirit then he brings with him more evil spirit and that's the reason why it's impossble to renew someone who knows the truth. There are 3 unpardonable sins according to the bible, you cannot do or you are finished
1. Sin willfully after receiving the truth. (you are putting Christ to open shame if you do that).

Spoiler: Hebrews 10

Hebrews 10: 26 - 29
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

This is how you put Christ to an open shame.

2. Blashpeme the holy ghost
3. Take the mark of the beast or worship his image

You are a dead man or woman walking if you do any of these three things, you can be forgiven for anything else.


There is a difference between someone who sins willfully and someone who blasphemes the holy ghost.

Spoiler: John 8

John 8: 3 - 11
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Now Jesus just literally forgave this woman. Then he told her "go and sin no more". For the sake of the point I am trying to make if she went and committed adultery consistently then Jesus forgiving her meant nothing to her.

If you are truly sorry for having done wrong why go back and repeat the same thing over and over again? If that woman did that then she is classified as a willful sinner, not someone who blasphemed the holy ghost.
John 5: 14
14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

What worst thing? Well if he sins again, them unclean spirits will destroy him. When Saul turned away from GOD them unclean spirits messed him up until the day of his death.

Concerning Luke 12
When you blaspheme the holy ghost that means you teach against the word of God even though you know the truth. For example if a ministers knows Israel holds the oracles of God and goes to church and teach that God has cast away Israel then that minister is blaspheming the holy ghost because the bible states otherwise.

Romans chapter 1 speaks about men who hold the truth in unrighteousness. Hopefully you read it already so I won't discuss it. The point is that they know GOD's truth but instead they teach contrary because their goal is to make money, not teach about salvation.

If you know you got to endure until the end then how can you speak as though someone is saved already? Denying the power of God isn't the only thing you can do that cause you to lose salvation.

So many assumptions and quite amusing to see you arguing with a fellow non-OSAS believer.

Regarding your various points raised:

• What causes loss of salvation – Scripture says God keeps believers to the end, not that believers preserve themselves (1 Cor. 1:8–9).
• Ordinary sin versus apostasy – Christ's sacrifice covers all sin; Scripture never creates a category of “sins that cancel salvation.”
• Hebrews 6 falling away – Hebrews 6 never explicitly says “lose salvation”; verse 9 immediately speaks of things accompanying salvation (Heb. 6:9).
• Holy Spirit departure – Saul's Old Testament experience cannot simply be equated with New Testament Spirit-indwelling believers.
• Saul as an example – The Spirit coming upon Saul is not the same doctrine as believers being sealed with the Spirit (1 Sam. 10:6; Eph. 1:13–14).
• Blasphemy against the Spirit – Jesus' warning concerns blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, not merely teaching something contrary to Scripture (Matt. 12:31–32).
• Enduring to the end – Paul says Christ Himself will confirm believers “unto the end” (1 Cor. 1:8), making endurance God's preservation.
• Matthew 12's unclean spirit – The passage never says the man was born again or that the Holy Spirit had departed from him.
• John 5:14 warning – “Sin no more” is a warning concerning consequences, not proof that repeated sin forfeits eternal life.
• Willful sin in Hebrews 10 – The passage describes judgment for rejecting Christ's sacrifice, but does not say a justified believer loses eternal life. Hebrews also says Christ's offering perfects believers forever (Heb. 10:14).
• Permanent loss of salvation – If a believer could separate himself from Christ, why does Paul say Romans 8:38–39's “nothing...shall be able to separate us”?
• The Holy Spirit as temporary – Believers are sealed with the Spirit “until the redemption,” and He is called the guarantee of our inheritance (Eph. 1:13–14).
• Falling away proves salvation was lost – 1 John 2:19 gives the opposite pattern: those who permanently departed demonstrated that they were not truly “of us.”
• The 'claimed' fundamental OSAS problem – Your argument assumes that spiritual experiences can prove someone was eternally saved and that salvation can later be lost. But Scripture presents salvation as God's completed and guaranteed work, with believers sealed by the Holy Spirit.

 

[KingJ]

You already bold and underline the little big word 'IF". What this is saying that it is impossible to renew someone who WAS enlightened by the heavenly gift. Many people read this and think it is saying that it's impossible for someone to not fall away after they get that gift. That is because people believed that's once saved always saved which is not what the bible teaches. You can always changed your mind and there are examples of this in the bible.

1 Samuel 10: 6, 10
6 And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

10 And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

This is Saul who received the gift of the holy ghost. Which meant he tasted of the heavenly gift and he was enlightedned because he knew the truth. However he decided to turn away from GOD.

1 Samuel 16: 14 - 15
14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

See how GOD's holy spirit left Saul after he disobeyed GOD? Then God sent an evil spirit after him. GOD has not changed this is why he made this statement.

Matthew 12: 43 - 45
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Why would the unclean Spirit leave in the first place? Because this person cleaned themselves up with the blood of Christ and got the gift of the holy ghost. However these evil spirits are always looking to go back home. If they come back and see you no longer have the holy spirit then he brings with him more evil spirit and that's the reason why it's impossble to renew someone who knows the truth. There are 3 unpardonable sins according to the bible, you cannot do or you are finished
1. Sin willfully after receiving the truth. (you are putting Christ to open shame if you do that).

Spoiler: Hebrews 10

Hebrews 10: 26 - 29
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

This is how you put Christ to an open shame.

2. Blashpeme the holy ghost
3. Take the mark of the beast or worship his image

You are a dead man or woman walking if you do any of these three things, you can be forgiven for anything else.


There is a difference between someone who sins willfully and someone who blasphemes the holy ghost.

Spoiler: John 8

John 8: 3 - 11
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Now Jesus just literally forgave this woman. Then he told her "go and sin no more". For the sake of the point I am trying to make if she went and committed adultery consistently then Jesus forgiving her meant nothing to her.

If you are truly sorry for having done wrong why go back and repeat the same thing over and over again? If that woman did that then she is classified as a willful sinner, not someone who blasphemed the holy ghost.
John 5: 14
14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

What worst thing? Well if he sins again, them unclean spirits will destroy him. When Saul turned away from GOD them unclean spirits messed him up until the day of his death.

Concerning Luke 12
When you blaspheme the holy ghost that means you teach against the word of God even though you know the truth. For example if a ministers knows Israel holds the oracles of God and goes to church and teach that God has cast away Israel then that minister is blaspheming the holy ghost because the bible states otherwise.

Romans chapter 1 speaks about men who hold the truth in unrighteousness. Hopefully you read it already so I won't discuss it. The point is that they know GOD's truth but instead they teach contrary because their goal is to make money, not teach about salvation.

If you know you got to endure until the end then how can you speak as though someone is saved already? Denying the power of God isn't the only thing you can do that cause you to lose salvation.

Please take a stab at a rebuttal to my post #5 in this thread.

If you can, in some way, properly explain how non-OSAS is consistent with the fact that God is just, I would have a lot more patience and time for your belief. At the moment, I honestly see non-OSAS believers as heretics who seemingly do not understand or care how much their message incriminates God.

 

[Hannah1]

You already bold and underline the little big word 'IF". What this is saying that it is impossible to renew someone who WAS enlightened by the heavenly gift. Many people read this and think it is saying that it's impossible for someone to not fall away after they get that gift. That is because people believed that's once saved always saved which is not what the bible teaches. You can always changed your mind and there are examples of this in the bible.

1 Samuel 10: 6, 10
6 And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

10 And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

This is Saul who received the gift of the holy ghost. Which meant he tasted of the heavenly gift and he was enlightedned because he knew the truth. However he decided to turn away from GOD.

1 Samuel 16: 14 - 15
14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

See how GOD's holy spirit left Saul after he disobeyed GOD? Then God sent an evil spirit after him. GOD has not changed this is why he made this statement.

Matthew 12: 43 - 45
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Why would the unclean Spirit leave in the first place? Because this person cleaned themselves up with the blood of Christ and got the gift of the holy ghost. However these evil spirits are always looking to go back home. If they come back and see you no longer have the holy spirit then he brings with him more evil spirit and that's the reason why it's impossble to renew someone who knows the truth. There are 3 unpardonable sins according to the bible, you cannot do or you are finished
1. Sin willfully after receiving the truth. (you are putting Christ to open shame if you do that).

Spoiler: Hebrews 10

Hebrews 10: 26 - 29
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

This is how you put Christ to an open shame.

2. Blashpeme the holy ghost
3. Take the mark of the beast or worship his image

You are a dead man or woman walking if you do any of these three things, you can be forgiven for anything else.


There is a difference between someone who sins willfully and someone who blasphemes the holy ghost.

Spoiler: John 8

John 8: 3 - 11
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Now Jesus just literally forgave this woman. Then he told her "go and sin no more". For the sake of the point I am trying to make if she went and committed adultery consistently then Jesus forgiving her meant nothing to her.

If you are truly sorry for having done wrong why go back and repeat the same thing over and over again? If that woman did that then she is classified as a willful sinner, not someone who blasphemed the holy ghost.
John 5: 14
14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

What worst thing? Well if he sins again, them unclean spirits will destroy him. When Saul turned away from GOD them unclean spirits messed him up until the day of his death.

Concerning Luke 12
When you blaspheme the holy ghost that means you teach against the word of God even though you know the truth. For example if a ministers knows Israel holds the oracles of God and goes to church and teach that God has cast away Israel then that minister is blaspheming the holy ghost because the bible states otherwise.

Romans chapter 1 speaks about men who hold the truth in unrighteousness. Hopefully you read it already so I won't discuss it. The point is that they know GOD's truth but instead they teach contrary because their goal is to make money, not teach about salvation.

If you know you got to endure until the end then how can you speak as though someone is saved already? Denying the power of God isn't the only thing you can do that cause you to lose salvation.

If you`re truly sorry why go back and repeat the same again? - you forget that people can be in bondage, entities, oppression, have mental health problems, addiction problems or just in very bad habits that takes years to break. There is something called sanctification process. Some, get delivered right away. Others, have to wait a few months. For others, it takes years. For unknown reasons, for God`s reasons, for healing takes time reasons etc. It is wrong to say those people should be and are rejected by God because they don`t get free right away, or get back to it, because of it. It does not mean they are not trying, not believing. It means they have a problem. Have you ever seen a totally righteous, sinfree person? no. Such one does not exsist according to the bible. Even Paul said the wrong things he did not want to do, he did, and the right things he did want to do, he did not do. And that was exactly why Jesus came to free us from the flesh sin nature. It does not mean we will be perfect and not sin or not have problems with sin in this life that is a error. While its true the more we give up to Jesus the more help we get. But so many have struggled for years before that. With sin. While believing. It looks like it is in the intent it is. Some get so disheartened and gulfed up by sin that they inside believe but do not have the strength. that can happen too.
Then we have the lost son, and how the father greeted him back.

 

[JunoTheServant]

So many assumptions and quite amusing to see you arguing with a fellow non-OSAS believer.

I don't know what non-OSAS believer means.

Please take a stab at a rebuttal to my post #5 in this thread.

If you can, in some way, properly explain how non-OSAS is consistent with the fact that God is just, I would have a lot more patience and time for your belief. At the moment, I honestly see non-OSAS believers as heretics who seemingly do not understand or care how much their message incriminates God.

Isaiah 1; 18
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

I reason with people out of the law and the testimony. I know that scriptures can be used out of context and you should be aware of that as well. I have said it many times but I am not too interested convincing anyone of anything. I warn people because if I don't I will be in trouble with God and I have enough fear of God to do what he asked me to do.

Now since you already labeling with a label I don't know about. I am wondering if there is any point to this because a made up mind is a made up mind. I clearly quoted a scripture where GOD gave Saul his holy spirit and then took it from him. God doesn't change and you don't have any examples that states otherwise. I may or may not address the verses you used after you tell me what OSAS is

 

[JunoTheServant]

If you`re truly sorry why go back and repeat the same again? - you forget that people can be in bondage, entities, oppression, have mental health problems, addiction problems or just in very bad habits that takes years to break. There is something called sanctification process. Some, get delivered right away. Others, have to wait a few months. For others, it takes years. For unknown reasons, for God`s reasons, for healing takes time reasons etc. It is wrong to say those people should be and are rejected by God because they don`t get free right away, or get back to it, because of it. It does not mean they are not trying, not believing. It means they have a problem. Have you ever seen a totally righteous, sinfree person? no. Such one does not exsist according to the bible. Even Paul said the wrong things he did not want to do, he did, and the right things he did want to do, he did not do. And that was exactly why Jesus came to free us from the flesh sin nature. It does not mean we will be perfect and not sin or not have problems with sin in this life that is a error. While its true the more we give up to Jesus the more help we get. But so many have struggled for years before that. With sin. While believing. It looks like it is in the intent it is. Some get so disheartened and gulfed up by sin that they inside believe but do not have the strength. that can happen too.
Then we have the lost son, and how the father greeted him back.

I have a question for you. What is sin according to the bible?
Now in terms of your post I agree and I am aware of addiction and certain behavior patterns, I was not addressing that in my post. Hence the question.

Now since you decided to move the goal post to discuss addiction rather than willful repetitive sin then let's talk.

People are in bondage because they are not taught the fear of the LORD. Some behaviors and strong holds may take months and years to break, however some things must go immediately if they cause you serious harm. For example if you love intercourse that much then get a spouse for it is written it is better to marry than to burn. Why get yourself into serious hot water because you can't keep your hands off of someone wife?? If God loves you then he will drop the sword so hard in your house that you will be cure of your addiction right away. Don't believe me then examine king David. His sons killed each other, tried to kill him, slept with his wives and his son raped one of his daughters. All that happened because he decided he just had to have Bathsheba.

So if you are doing wickedness in the sight of God and he loves you, he will correct you behavior because the bible said so.

Proverbs 3: 11 - 12
11 My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction:

12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Hebrews 12: 6, 11
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Depending on the severity of the punishment God dishes out you will change.
Job 5: 17
17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:

Matthew 5: 30
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Whatever someone is doing to cause offense get rid of it. If you have an issue with coveteousness then stay off social media, if want good things then work for it and don't steal because it's either you deal with it or GOD surely will.

Another problem is that many people are in churches listening to a pastor that is not teaching them the fear of the LORD. You would be surprised how quickly one changes when their life is on the line but people see Jesus Christ as a teddy bear and since churches are accepting sin then people don't feel ashamed therefore they don't stop.

For example, a man and a woman announce in the church that they having a baby and they are not married. That means they committed fornication and instead of withdrawing yourself from brothers and sisters who do this we congratulate them. Churches are literally strengthening the hands of the wicked and it's sad, then people wonder why many people are leaving churches or refusing to join. That's because people know hypocrites when they see them.

2 Thessalonians 3: 6 - 7, 14 - 15
6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Yea because people are more likely to change but instead churches are teaching there is no law so now everyone is behaving like people off the streets and claiming they love God.

Jeremiah 23: 14, 21 - 22
14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.


If God said people will turn from their wickedness if they hear his words then that is EXACTLY what will happen. No one who actually hears God word would still be addicted to porn because watching porn means you are practicing coveteousness and God clearly said he hates that.

Pastors so busy teaching God is love they don't even bother to teach people that God is also a consuming fire. Hebrews 12: 29
As a result no one fears GOD and they do things they ought not to. I was addicted to porn for years even while attending churches regurlary.

When I found a church that taught me how dangerous God is if I don't obey him, I quit just like that because unlike every church I attended the bible was actually read to me. I have been trying years to quit and could not, all of a sudden someone taught me the fear of the LORD and I changed my wicked ways. I am not saying it's going to be like that for everyone but you should be improving especially if God is whooping your butt because once God swings down on you that person will change.

 

[Twistie]

I have a question for you. What is sin according to the bible?
Now in terms of your post I agree and I am aware of addiction and certain behavior patterns, I was not addressing that in my post. Hence the question.

Now since you decided to move the goal post to discuss addiction rather than willful repetitive sin then let's talk.

People are in bondage because they are not taught the fear of the LORD. Some behaviors and strong holds may take months and years to break, however some things must go immediately if they cause you serious harm. For example if you love intercourse that much then get a spouse for it is written it is better to marry than to burn. Why get yourself into serious hot water because you can't keep your hands off of someone wife?? If God loves you then he will drop the sword so hard in your house that you will be cure of your addiction right away. Don't believe me then examine king David. His sons killed each other, tried to kill him, slept with his wives and his son raped one of his daughters. All that happened because he decided he just had to have Bathsheba.

So if you are doing wickedness in the sight of God and he loves you, he will correct you behavior because the bible said so.

Proverbs 3: 11 - 12
11 My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction:

12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Hebrews 12: 6, 11
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Depending on the severity of the punishment God dishes out you will change.
Job 5: 17
17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:

Matthew 5: 30
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Whatever someone is doing to cause offense get rid of it. If you have an issue with coveteousness then stay off social media, if want good things then work for it and don't steal because it's either you deal with it or GOD surely will.

Another problem is that many people are in churches listening to a pastor that is not teaching them the fear of the LORD. You would be surprised how quickly one changes when their life is on the line but people see Jesus Christ as a teddy bear and since churches are accepting sin then people don't feel ashamed therefore they don't stop.

For example, a man and a woman announce in the church that they having a baby and they are not married. That means they committed fornication and instead of withdrawing yourself from brothers and sisters who do this we congratulate them. Churches are literally strengthening the hands of the wicked and it's sad, then people wonder why many people are leaving churches or refusing to join. That's because people know hypocrites when they see them.

2 Thessalonians 3: 6 - 7, 14 - 15
6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Yea because people are more likely to change but instead churches are teaching there is no law so now everyone is behaving like people off the streets and claiming they love God.

Jeremiah 23: 14, 21 - 22
14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.


If God said people will turn from their wickedness if they hear his words then that is EXACTLY what will happen. No one who actually hears God word would still be addicted to porn because watching porn means you are practicing coveteousness and God clearly said he hates that.

Pastors so busy teaching God is love they don't even bother to teach people that God is also a consuming fire. Hebrews 12: 29
As a result no one fears GOD and they do things they ought not to. I was addicted to porn for years even while attending churches regurlary.

When I found a church that taught me how dangerous God is if I don't obey him, I quit just like that because unlike every church I attended the bible was actually read to me. I have been trying years to quit and could not, all of a sudden someone taught me the fear of the LORD and I changed my wicked ways. I am not saying it's going to be like that for everyone but you should be improving especially if God is whooping your butt because once God swings down on you that person will change.

Before I was afflicted I went astray, But now I keep Your word.

Yet there are some..

For the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them, neither do they seek the LORD of hosts.

Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.

We all have free will regardless if we are affected or not..Abba does not force His creation to Love Him to want to follow Him..if He did that would make Him a tyrant type god dont ya think?..even the angels have free will Abba did not force the fallen ones to turn against Him nor did He force them to stay n do what He wanted..

┌⁠(⁠・⁠。⁠・⁠)⁠┘⁠♪

 

[JunoTheServant]

Before I was afflicted I went astray, But now I keep Your word.

Yet there are some..

For the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them, neither do they seek the LORD of hosts.

Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.

We all have free will regardless if we are affected or not..Abba does not force His creation to Love Him to want to follow Him..if He did that would make Him a tyrant type god dont ya think?..even the angels have free will Abba did not force the fallen ones to turn against Him nor did He force them to stay n do what He wanted..

┌⁠(⁠・⁠。⁠・⁠)⁠┘⁠♪

What makes you think GOD is not a tyrant?? GOD is a righteous tyrant because this world is going to go the way he wants it to whether we like it or not. In the bible GOD is literally telling you to obey him or else. Obedience is to our benefit and disobedience will be to our downfall.

Psalm 2
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
Yea we better kiss the son because once he comes back mad we are not going to like it at all. Why you think people crying out to have the rocks fall on them when Jesus gets back??

Revelation 19: 13 - 15
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

GOD is going to rule this Earth with a rod of iron. Anyone who doesn't do what he says is going to get a serious whooping.

Zechariah 14: 16 - 19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Right now no one wants to do it, everyone wants to celebrate Christmas, I'm just saying.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
You mean to tell me GOD is withholding rain just because no one wants to celebrate his feast that he COMMANDED us to do in Leviticus 23?
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Good GOD, the no rain was already bad and now he hitting them with a plague, man I'm telling yall sweet Jesus don't play no games
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Now someone would read this and think God is terrible but in fact he is not. Man is running this world and look at what is happening, we are stealing, killing and committing adultery. I personally am looking forward to Jesus ruling this Earth because I can't stand this rulership by man. God gave Ham a chance to rule the world and they blew it, he gave Shem a chance to rule the world and they blew it and now the children of Japheth which are the Gentiles are currently ruling the world and they are just as bad as Shem and Ham. I am going with Christ and his rod of iron thank you very much.

 

[Twistie]

What makes you think GOD is not a tyrant?? GOD is a righteous tyrant because this world is going to go the way he wants it to whether we like it or not. In the bible GOD is literally telling you to obey him or else. Obedience is to our benefit and disobedience will be to our downfall.

Psalm 2
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
Yea we better kiss the son because once he comes back mad we are not going to like it at all. Why you think people crying out to have the rocks fall on them when Jesus gets back??

Revelation 19: 13 - 15
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

GOD is going to rule this Earth with a rod of iron. Anyone who doesn't do what he says is going to get a serious whooping.

Zechariah 14: 16 - 19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Right now no one wants to do it, everyone wants to celebrate Christmas, I'm just saying.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
You mean to tell me GOD is withholding rain just because no one wants to celebrate his feast that he COMMANDED us to do in Leviticus 23?
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Good GOD, the no rain was already bad and now he hitting them with a plague, man I'm telling yall sweet Jesus don't play no games
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Now someone would read this and think God is terrible but in fact he is not. Man is running this world and look at what is happening, we are stealing, killing and committing adultery. I personally am looking forward to Jesus ruling this Earth because I can't stand this rulership by man. God gave Ham a chance to rule the world and they blew it, he gave Shem a chance to rule the world and they blew it and now the children of Japheth which are the Gentiles are currently ruling the world and they are just as bad as Shem and Ham. I am going with Christ and his rod of iron thank you very much.

Ahh ok i see what ya r now.. hope ya come into the light!

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