Are some people predestined for hell no matter what they do.

[Brother Paul]

Stop with the straw man and address the question are you.inside of Jesus' body?

Being "in Christ" does not mean being inside of His body...we ARE His body.

 

[Butch5]

Matthew writes “17 gAnd after six days Jesus took with him hPeter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 And he was itransfigured before them, and jhis face shone like the sun, and khis clothes became white as light. 3 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him.”

And Mark says (which is Peter's memoir) “After six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his clothes became radiant, intensely white, as no one on earth could bleach them. And there appeared to them Elijah with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus.”

Nothing says it was a vision, and Moses and Elijah were there in spirit form with Jesus talking and then in Revelations 7 these are the multitude who had passed from this world but were still alive (dead in body only)....one group (Revelations 20) is described as those souls who lost their head in the Tribulation...yet there they are in the Throne room....

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So we have Jesus, Matthew, Peter, Mark, Paul, and John as witnesses to our life after death of the body

3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us1 make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah."
5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!"
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid.
7 But Jesus came and touched them and said, "Arise, and do not be afraid."
8 When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.
9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead." (Matt. 17:3-9 NKJ)

Jesus said it was a vision. Also Peter said that it was the second coming.

16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. (2 Pet. 1:16-18 KJV)

Concerning Revelation, we've got to keep in mind that Revelation is a book full of symbolism. That said, thier in the Kingdom, they've been resurrected

 

[Bill]

Are some people destined for Hell no matter what they do?
Maybe they Blasphemied the Holy spirit? Or thought some thing very bad sacrilegious, or something.
Can these sins be repented of?
What are the people who are destined for darkness?-- unbelievers, haters of God almighty, or people who sin after receiving the Holy spirit?
Who exactly are they
What is the Blasphemy of the Holy spirit?

Sinning against the Holy Spirit . As an example . To recieve the Mark of the Beast. ... Rev . Any religious who does or recommends it to others will sin against the Holy Spirit

 

[Bill]

I have been reading some of the silly arguements that are being posted here on this thread. Whether the presence of Elijah and Moses was a vision or in view of all . And other things .

I say Silly because just as Lazarus had died, but was alive in Jesus. So was Elijah and Mosses . Just because the Temple of the Holy Spirit is gone, does not mean a person is " Dead " . When you are alive in Jesus and Jesus lives in you , then Heaven is living in you as well .

 

[Bill]

This thinking is also just your opinion that does nothing to change what the word of God has stated!

Did you know Satanists use the Bible all the time to defend thier position.

Jesus stated that following His Word wasnt something of the Letter of the Law, but the Spirit of the Law.

The Law itself . The Word that became flesh. The stone tablets, that are Love

 

[David1954]

Yes. And some to Heaven.

 

[Bill]

Predestination is not of the Lord . It would be like saying to God , your creation is imperfact

 

[David1954]

Predestination is not of the Lord . It would be like saying to God , your creation is imperfact

17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”

20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ”

21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

 

[David1954]

13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!

15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”

20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ”

21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

 

[Butch5]

13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!

15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”

20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ”

21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

Romans 9 is referring to Israel.

 

[Bill]

13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!

15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”

20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ”

21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

There is a problem with your thought on this . You are comparring the choices a person makes during thier lifetime , which causes the infraction against God in the first place . And comparing that to the perfection of Gods creation , the infant from conception till " evil " was found in him .

Remember Even the Angels were created in Gods perfection , yet they too have free will. Satan was not predestinded for hell . Scripture states that hell was made for Satan not Satan for hell .

 

[Bill]

Romans 9 is referring to Israel.

It was written for much more than just Israel . But that is besidethe point . This scripture talks about the failing from perfection through actions of life . And what im talking about is Gods creation being perfect first . God can not create imperfection

 

[Butch5]

It was written for much more than just Israel . But that is besidethe point . This scripture talks about the failing from perfection through actions of life . And what im talking about is Gods creation being perfect first . God can not create imperfection

I didn't say it was written to Israel. I said it was referring to Israel. I don't know what your're getting at here but it's not what Romans 9 is about.

 

[Bill]

I didn't say it was written to Israel. I said it was referring to Israel. I don't know what your're getting at here but it's not what Romans 9 is about.

Scripture is written in layers . For a child who is new they will read the scripture in a certain light . As a person matures , reading the same scripture will mean something totally different . Even those who feel they are mature in God's Word will be amazed at the teachings of Gods future Prophets .

 

[Butch5]

Scripture is written in layers . For a child who is new they will read the scripture in a certain light . As a person matures , reading the same scripture will mean something totally different . Even those who feel they are mature in God's Word will be amazed at the teachings of Gods future Prophets .

The meaning of Scripture doesn't change. I means what the writer intended, that's all.

 

[Bill]

I didn't say it was written to Israel. I said it was referring to Israel. I don't know what your're getting at here but it's not what Romans 9 is about.

How is it that Jacob is loved and Esau is hated . Or how is Israel loved ? it was thier actions .

All have been created perfect in God . But it is you actions ( love is an action ) that will either draw you to God or push you away . God's love is eternal , never changing . Even when God turns his back , His Heart is already breaking .

Its what happened on the cross between Jesus and the Father . Jesus took on the Sin of the World , Jesus became Sin to free us from our bondage . " Father why has thou forsaken me " The Fathers heart was breaking . The cloth in the Temple was torn in two

 

[Bill]

The meaning of Scripture doesn't change. I means what the writer intended, that's all.

What does Scripture speak of where it is written about the Two Witnesses " Fire will come out of thier mouths and kill thier enemies "

I rest my case

 

[Bill]

The meaning of Scripture doesn't change. I means what the writer intended, that's all.

What you think it says now is ment for you now . Bur even the Writers knew not the Intentions of Jesus , the Auther of the Scriptures. He is the Word

 

[Butch5]

How is it that Jacob is loved and Esau is hated . Or how is Israel loved ? it was thier actions .

All have been created perfect in God . But it is you actions ( love is an action ) that will either draw you to God or push you away . God's love is eternal , never changing . Even when God turns his back , His Heart is already breaking .

Its what happened on the cross between Jesus and the Father . Jesus took on the Sin of the World , Jesus became Sin to free us from our bondage . " Father why has thou forsaken me " The Fathers heart was breaking . The cloth in the Temple was torn in two

That's not what Romans 9 is about.

 

[Butch5]

What does Scripture speak of where it is written about the Two Witnesses " Fire will come out of thier mouths and kill thier enemies "

I rest my case

What does this have to do with what I said?