Bible Problem

[lentz]

For once I agree with you.
Many know the ink on the pages, but have not love nor are zealous of good works.

We dont have to agree on everything.
As long as we both agree we are sinners in need of a savior is really all that maters.
And that Christ came and died to rid us of those sins.

 

[NetChaplain]

Greetings NC,

yes.
In one way, even without translations and texts, as perhaps in the earlier Church and even before (Abraham comes immediately to mind) it is always about those who seek diligently and those who don't.

We do have so much more at our disposal now, but I also agree that changes and the like do present dangerous platforms to launch serious Biblical seeking from.
Then we have the myriad of professing experts (those who think they are as opposed to those who are) and endless arguments (even if they appear tame debates) all of which opens ground for bad seed to be sown into minds, and ultimately, people give up on it all and even turn against the Faith as they witness so many professing believers in constant disagreement.

We must rest in the faithfulness of God in His calling and His work in those who come unto Him for salvation.
What gets built or built upon after that, is perhaps what you are speaking of?

None of this has taken our Lord by surprise.
As with every era, some will be there to watch and declare for those who seek Truth and some will find it more than others.

As you no doubt agree, our Bibles are our most precious possession while we remain pilgrims in this dark world. Having text that is reliably passed on to us and to future generations only make good sense.

I am not at all convinced that things will get better and that we will have the correct Bible as the go to for the majority, due to the trends of marketing and hype and would-be experts telling everyone who will listen to them that such and such a version/translation is the way to go.

The more men like yourself do what you are able to let others know the difference and help point the way, the better.

I do come back, however, to the man who will diligently seeks the LORD verses the fool in his folly.
Not all horses appreciate the drink.


Bless you Brother ....><>

I almost missed this post because It's been a long time since I have received alerts at the top the page.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Which translation of the Bible do you use?

As for me, NKJV, the one and only paperback in my humble possession. It's not my choice, and it may not be the best version in regard of accuracy and difficulty, but that's all I have and I have no access to any other version.

 

[Waggles]

I can post out to you a hardback copy of the ESV - which is a pretty good translation.

 

[NetChaplain]

As for me, NKJV, the one and only paperback in my humble possession. It's not my choice, and it may not be the best version in regard of accuracy and difficulty, but that's all I have and I have no access to any other version.

You humble paperback is much greater than all the modern translations which omit Scripture. Below is an example of hundreds of omissions.


I would rather trust a translation with many manuscript evidence (about 3,000 manuscripts, regardless the age) than only 2 or three. The antiquity of the copies are the reason why they are so venerated. They are only good as antiques for the archeologist; and the footnotes expressing the reason why they omit its not a good enough reason for taking away Scripture.

Act 8:37
"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." [entirely omitted].

1Jo 5:7
Entirely omitted, with the footnote "not found in any Greek manuscripts before the fourteenth century." As I said, the age of a manuscript is irrelevant because it is a manuscript. This was enough for the KJ translators to include it.

Act 28:29 Entirely omitted.

Jhn 5:4 Entirely omitted.



I wanted to present 4 entirely omitted passages, and 3 partially omitted passages.

Jhn 3:13 Partially omitted "even the Son of man which is in heaven." The omission detracts a significant truth, that the Lord Jesus was omnipresent in heaven while on earth.

Eph 3:9 "Who created all things by Jesus Christ." This reiteration of the Lord Jesus' creative power is a significant detraction of Scripture.

Jhn 5:3 Partially omit "waiting for the moving of the water."


There are two passage needed to check to determine if the translation is from the detracted text or the Traditional Text: 2Sam 21:19 omits the phrase "the brother of" rendering a reading that says "Elhanan slew Goliath." the other passage is 1JN 5:7 omits the primary Trinity passage. If these are the translation readings they are from the detracted text and contain hundreds of omitted Scriptures.

 

[Waggles]

Just because the KJV contains verses does not mean that the are truly part of the Original Greek spoken by God to his writers.
The only NT in English and Greek that has definitively identified the Greek words that are true is "The Numeric New Testament" by Ivan Panin - 1914 and 1934
People need to stop worshipping the KJV.

Acts 8:37 ought to be omitted as that verse is clearly at odds doctrinally with other verses on salvation and what it means to believe.
Panin has established that the arithmetic patterns of 7 that define the true Greek in the original wording is completely absent from the interpolated verse 37 - it is not inspired.
Acts 8:38 And he commanded to stop the chariot; and both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
8:39 And when they came up out of the water, the Lord’s Spirit caught away *Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more, for he went on his *way rejoicing. [NENT]

Again the same for 1John 5:7 omitted by Panin (and this verse certainly comes across as a RCC interpolation).
1John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood.
5:7 And it is the Spirit that witnesseth, because the Spirit is the truth.
5:8 Because the witnessing ones are three: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one. [NENT]

Acts 28:29 is not inspired by God
Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore to you, that this *salvation of *God is sent to the nations: and THEY will hear.
28:30 And he abode two whole years in his own hired dwelling, and received all that went in unto him, [NENT]

The correct Greek wording as sealed by God through the numerics of the original Greek is as follows -
Joh5:3 In these lay a multitude of the sick, blind, halt, withered.
5:5 And a certain man was there who had been thirty and eight years in his *infirmity. [NENT]

John 3:13 And no one hath ascended into the heaven, except he that descended out of the heaven, the Son of *man. [NENT]
John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. [ESV - see they are not all bad]

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: [KJV]
> Ephesians 3:9 and to bring to light what is the dispensation of the mystery *hid for the ages in *God who created *all things; in order
3:10 that now unto the principalities and the powers in the heavenlies be made known through the church the manifold wisdom of *God, [NENT]

If these are the translation readings they are from the detracted text and contain hundreds of omitted Scriptures.

Just because verses are in the KJV does not mean that they are true and inspired by God.

 

[Waggles]

In the end they most significant true verses spoken directly by Jesus our Saviour are disregarded and even loathed by most Christians.
Ivan Panin has confirmed that these verses are truly inspired by God and have multiple numeric patterns of 7 woven into the wording
such as the value of the Greek alphabet used, the number of vowels and consonants, the words spoken by Jesus, and so on ...
multiple values of 7 throughout that seal the word of God from devils and men.

Mark 16:15 And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
16:16 Who hath believed and is baptized shall be saved; but who hath disbelieved shall be condemned.
16:17 And these signs shall follow them that have believed: in my *name shall they cast out demons, speak with tongues;
16:18 and in their hands they shall take up serpents, and if they drink aught deadly, it shall in now wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
16:19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into *heaven, and sat down at the right hand of *God.
16:20 And THEY went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word by the signs that followed.

So then all you KJV lovers - measure up yourself against the word of God and see if ye be in the faith once delivered unto the saints.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings @Waggles

People need to stop worshipping the KJV.

people need to be aware [beware] of worshiping the late Mr. Panin, also.

in my Bible I am told that it is God Who gives the increase.
He has the plan... do we trust Him and can we go about doing good without trying to indoctrinate everyone with matters that only He can make manifest, according to His will, giving things spiritual to His Body, diversely, as He will?

So then all you KJV lovers - measure up yourself against the word of God and see if ye be in the faith once delivered unto the saints.

Waggles, this is quite silly.
By Whom should we measure up and by which measure does He mete out?

Does this only apply to those you call, "KJV lovers"?
Surely not.

Please be careful of what you write. The Lord can lead, if we will follow.

and again, beware of worshiping the late Mr. Panin and/or his writings.

If you have something constructive to share, do so with gentleness, patience, longsuffering and love, in peace.


Jesus is the Lord


Bless you and yours ....><>

 

[complete]

'The words of the LORD are pure words:
as silver tried in a furnace of earth,
purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD,
Thou shalt preserve them
from this generation
for ever.'
(Psalm 12:6-7)

Praise God!

 

[Rhema]

The King James translators were the most learned scholars in the world at the time of translating (and probably still are),

Yeah, well... NO. You should disabuse yourself of that delusion. Seriously.

“One man is to be given the credit for the discovery of the Koine – a German pastor named Adolf Deissmann. Even though one or two perceptive scholars had noted the true character of NT Greek as early as the middle of the nineteenth century, their statements made no impression on general opinion. Deissmann, on a visit to a friend in Marburg, found a volume of Greek papyri from Egypt, and leafing through this publication, he was struck by the similarity to the Greek of the NT. He followed up this observation with continued study, and his publications of his findings finally led to general acceptance of the position that the peculiarities of the Greek NT were, for the most part, to be explained by reference to the nonliterary Greek, the popular colloquial language of the period. He first published his results in two volumes of Bible Studies (1895, 1897) and later on in the justly popular Life from the Ancient East (1908).”​

- The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, pg. 486.​

Your precious King James translators had absolutely no idea about Koine Greek. And their intent was to produce a translation to fit the doctrine of the Anglican Church.

I knew of this problem when I was 14, decades ago, so I just decided to learn the language.

Rhema

 

[complete]

'But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse,
deceiving, and being deceived.
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned
and hast been assured of,
knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,
which are able to make thee wise unto salvation
through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.'
(2 Timothy 3:13-17)

 

[Rhema]

people need to be aware [beware] of worshiping the late Mr. Panin, also.

The use of the definite article ("the") in Koine Greek is one of the most perplexing issues in translation. Even Dr. Daniel Wallace of (the) Dallas Theological Seminary has stated in lecture that he still doesn't understand its application.

As a modern example, the Brits say, "I'm going to hospital," while the Yanks say, "I'm going to the hospital." What's the difference? None. It's parlance, or metric or cultural colloquialism, an adaptation of style similar to a "linguistic accent." To now make some kind of supernatural or divine insight out of this is... delusional.

Rhema
(Do we know if Mr. Panin ever read Philo?)

 

[Rhema]

(2 Timothy 3:13-17)

Truly this is one of the most heinous purposeful mistranslations I have ever run across.

Am I going to be backed into a corner and have to address this?

Oh dear....


Rhema

 

[Rhema]

As for me, NKJV, the one and only paperback in my humble possession. It's not my choice, and it may not be the best version in regard of accuracy and difficulty, but that's all I have and I have no access to any other version.

We'd be glad to send you one.... for free. (Just send a PM)

The Interlinear KJV-NIV Parallel New Testament in Greek…

The Interlinear KJV-NIV Parallel New Testament does thr…

www.goodreads.com

 

[Rhema]

In the end they most significant true verses spoken directly by Jesus our Saviour are disregarded and even loathed by most Christians.
Ivan Panin has confirmed that these verses are truly inspired by God and have multiple numeric patterns of 7 woven into the wording
such as the value of the Greek alphabet used, the number of vowels and consonants, the words spoken by Jesus, and so on ...

Yet Jesus spoke in Aramaic, and Origen stated that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew.

Perhaps Mr. Panin was actually looking at the wrong language.

TheAramaicScriptures.com

The Holy Aramaic Scriptures: With a literal English translation and transliteration of The Eastern Peshitta New Testament Text, such as given in The Khabouris Codex.

www.thearamaicscriptures.com

Rhema

 

[Br. Bear]

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me.
John 5:39

 

[Br. Bear]

Truly this is one of the most heinous purposeful mistranslations I have ever run across.

Am I going to be backed into a corner and have to address this?

Oh dear....


Rhema

καὶ ?

 

[Twistie]

Greetings @Waggles


people need to be aware [beware] of worshiping the late Mr. Panin, also.

in my Bible I am told that it is God Who gives the increase.
He has the plan... do we trust Him and can we go about doing good without trying to indoctrinate everyone with matters that only He can make manifest, according to His will, giving things spiritual to His Body, diversely, as He will?

Waggles, this is quite silly.
By Whom should we measure up and by which measure does He mete out?

Does this only apply to those you call, "KJV lovers"?
Surely not.

Please be careful of what you write. The Lord can lead, if we will follow.

and again, beware of worshiping the late Mr. Panin and/or his writings.

If you have something constructive to share, do so with gentleness, patience, longsuffering and love, in peace.


Jesus is the Lord


Bless you and yours ....><>

I don't get the people who wanna say which book one should read like YH can't guide n teach His children Himself??
I believe many underestimate the Power of YH because their brain can't comprehend that He is YH n they r not.. one must let go of the ego godlike attitude first B4 the Spirit of YH would reveal...

Twistie

 

[Twistie]

I don't get the people who wanna say which book one should read like YH can't guide n teach His children Himself??
I believe many underestimate the Power of YH because their brain can't comprehend that He is YH n they r not.. one must let go of the ego godlike attitude first B4 the Spirit of YH would reveal...

Twistie

For it is written I will come like a thief in the night to remove the lamp stand.. those who are worshipping Him falsely are those whom He has blinded n deafened.. those who truly seek Him with their whole heart He will b a lamp stand to them He will guide His unto The Truth for He is Truth..
One who feathers get all ruffled cause they discover words are taken n replaced really don't believe YH is guiding His children.. like idk they perhaps put limitations on YH cause they can't phantom the Higher Power is Truly above them so to say..
He tells me He(His Word) is so simple that a child can understand.. so unless one becomes like a child with child like faith they will not truly understand Him.. n if one speaks a bunch of words trying to explain why they think the word is this n that they would surely confuse a little child.. shoot I get boggled just trying to read most of it frfr..
Without faith it is impossible to please Most High.. or another n I kinda like this one it's impossible to please He Whom Is Ancient Before Days..I just love that lol


Twistie

 

[Rhema]

I believe many underestimate the Power of YH because their brain can't comprehend that He is YH n they r not.. one must let go of the ego godlike attitude first B4 the Spirit of YH would reveal...

And lo, just how many people have claimed to have such revelations... dare I make even a small list?

Joseph Smith (Mormonism)
Charles Taze Russell (Jehovah's Witnesses)
George Fox (Quakers)
Mary Baker Eddy (Christian Science)
Ellen White (7th day Adventists)
Kenneth Hagin Sr. (Word of Faith)

And dare I add a goodly three or four of certain members in this forum?

Rhema

(When will it end?)