Can not know the Lord without Repentance??

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Do you understand Jesus' words about "grape vines cannot bring forth figs and fig trees cannot bring forth grapes"?
The reborn are now of God's seed, they are unable to commit even one sin.
They cannot bring forth evil fruit.
One sin, or one sin a month, both manifest a seed from which evil fruit CAN come.
That seed is not of God. (1 John 3:5-10)

@At Peace
There are those who are off on a ditch on one side of the road claiming, ohhhj I am just an old sinner saved by Grace and woe is me I won't ever be worthy.

Then there is the ditch on the other side of the road where we can do no wrong. It's all been done for me because I repented and got my self born again.

Both ditches are in captivity to doctrine of demons.
Both keep Spiritual Growth out.
Your in the do nothing gospel ditch.

I urge you to get out in the middle of the road and grow in understanding of Christ and God's Word.

You see it as I can't sin so everything I do is right on point.
That's false and stunting your growth.

You boast you can't sin.
This attitude of yours that drives you to correct everyone and do so in a false accusations way is actually sin.

I am not trying to point out your sins or demean you.
You argue with way to many members and accuse them of not being saved to all sorts of things.

Sir, you ain't arguing with people as much as you are the Word of God.
It's not the people you are having an issue with but it is the very word of God.

Hebrews 4:12 says it best.
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

Blessings to you

 

[Christ4Ever]

Break time again.
Prayer and meditate upon His Word that when the thread opens again we might communicate in Love.
Seeking greater understanding and the wisdom in words to reflect this love, without savaging each other in the process.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Moderator
Nick
<><

 

[At Peace]

@At Peace
There are those who are off on a ditch on one side of the road claiming, ohhhj I am just an old sinner saved by Grace and woe is me I won't ever be worthy.
Then there is the ditch on the other side of the road where we can do no wrong. It's all been done for me because I repented and got my self born again.

I thank the mod's for the cooling off period.
That being said, I will attempt to use only scripture to get my points across, with the minimum of "editorializing".
I see "repentance"...from sin, as permanently turning from sin. (Acts 3:26, Acts 26:18, Rom 11:26)
It is a gift from God. (Acts 11:18)
Paul writes..."But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance." (Acts 26:20)
Those who have yet to repent of sin are still turned away from God.
As God has given us every escape from temptation, (1 Cor 10:13), plus His own "mind", (1 Cor 2:16), I assert that it is possible to keep oneself free of sin.

BTW, I don't say "I can't commit sin" because the option is always available to me.
If I were to commit sin, however, I would have to quit saying I am born of God: as those born of His seed cannot commit sin. (1 John 3:7;-10)

Both ditches are in captivity to doctrine of demons.
Both keep Spiritual Growth out.
Your in the do nothing gospel ditch.

Nothing?
I turned from sin, and was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, and received the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38),
Thereby being crucified with Christ, buried with Christ , and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.(Rom 6:3-7)
Having been reborn of God's seed, (Apple tree), it is no longer possible to bring forth the fruit which the previous seed I was born from produced. (Onions)
But it is a never ending fight against the wicked allure of this world.
I have to be constantly on guard for my own soul's sake and to be always seen in a light not reflecting service to the devil.
Folks are so intent on proving me evil, (sometimes to justify their own wickedness), that I must always walk circumspectly.
Even here at TJ I must always manifest the persona given to me by Christ.
But through continued prayer, (and asking God to help me grow in grace and knowledge), I have been equipt to respond to replies to Godliness at deeper and deeper levels since my initial turn from darkness and unto light.

I urge you to get out in the middle of the road and grow in understanding of Christ and God's Word.

Can you tell us a little bit about walking in the gray area?

You see it as I can't sin so everything I do is right on point.
That's false and stunting your growth.

Let's call it what it is.
Obedience to God.
Hardly stunting my growth.

You boast you can't sin.
This attitude of yours that drives you to correct everyone and do so in a false accusations way is actually sin.

Though what you call "boasting" is actually "truth of God's mercy and power in His kingdom on earth", I take no offense.

I am not trying to point out your sins or demean you.
You argue with way to many members and accuse them of not being saved to all sorts of things.

Take one step back...now look at what some of those members have in common.
They fight against obedience to God.
I thank God for those who agree with my posts, and hope they come to a conclusion that abrogates sin in their own lives.
I also pray they may grow in boldness in their own defense of "this doctrine which is according to Godliness". (1 Tim 6:3)

Sir, you ain't arguing with people as much as you are the Word of God.
It's not the people you are having an issue with but it is the very word of God.
Hebrews 4:12 says it best.
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

It isn't "cutting between soul and spirit" nor "between joint and marrow": It is cutting between Spiritual things and fleshly things,

Paul wrote..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Awake!

 

[B-A-C]

If I were to commit sin, however, I would have to quit saying I am born of God: as those born of His seed cannot commit sin. (1 John 3:7;-10)

Luke 9:23; And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Is it possible this "dying to self" and being born of God is a daily thing? I realize this can quickly get turned into an OSAS discussion, but that isn't really my point.

1 Cor 15:31; I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Again, I don't think we should build a doctrine on a single verse... but even so...

1 Jn 3:9; Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Depends on dying daily... and being "born of God" daily. Just because I was yesterday, doesn't mean I will be tomorrow.

Gal 2:16; Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17; But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18; For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19; For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20; I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Paul seems to be saying we are capable "of being found sinners" and also capable of "build(ing) again the things which I destroyed.
It seems he didn't consider us... "once crucified, always crucified".

 

[Born Again 2004]

Luke 9:23; And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Is it possible this "dying to self" and being born of God is a daily thing? I realize this can quickly get turned into an OSAS discussion, but that isn't really my point.

1 Cor 15:31; I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Again, I don't think we should build a doctrine on a single verse... but even so...

1 Jn 3:9; Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Depends on dying daily... and being "born of God" daily. Just because I was yesterday, doesn't mean I will be tomorrow.

Gal 2:16; Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17; But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18; For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19; For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20; I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Paul seems to be saying we are capable "of being found sinners" and also capable of "build(ing) again the things which I destroyed.
It seems he didn't consider us... "once crucified, always crucified".

Paul, himself admitted he was a sinner...I guess those who have no sin are greater than St. Paul!!

 

[At Peace]

Your a straight man, right?

Derail...

 

[At Peace]

Luke 9:23; And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Is it possible this "dying to self" and being born of God is a daily thing? I realize this can quickly get turned into an OSAS discussion, but that isn't really my point.

That is a great point.
The dying to self and crucified daily are both actualized by those in Christ.
We must keep the flesh dead, or as Paul called it and it's actions "mortified". (Rom 8:13, Col 3:5)

1 Cor 15:31; I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Again, I don't think we should build a doctrine on a single verse... but even so...

Though I will admit confusion at the first part of this verse, the part you quote verifies my last citings by Paul.
We die, or better said, keep dead the old man with his affections.

1 Jn 3:9; Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Depends on dying daily... and being "born of God" daily. Just because I was yesterday, doesn't mean I will be tomorrow.

True enough, and you thought I didn't "have" to do anything for my continued existence in the light.
If I get lazy, or self-serving, my eventual day of judgement will leave my in a lake of fire.
But by doing these things "daily", God keeps me and protects me...thanks be to God.

Gal 2:16; Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17; But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18; For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19; For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20; I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Paul seems to be saying we are capable "of being found sinners" and also capable of "build(ing) again the things which I destroyed.
It seems he didn't consider us... "once crucified, always crucified".

We ARE capable of turning away from God, so we adhere to the exhortations and warnings afforded us in scripture and from brothers in Christ.
Thankfully God gives us all we need so as we do not "turn away".



The "things which I destroyed" refers to the Mosaic Law and is another subject altogether.

 

[At Peace]

Paul, himself admitted he was a sinner...I guess those who have no sin are greater than St. Paul!!

Where does he say that?
Let us deal with the particulars in order to establish God's grace and mercy on earth now, shall we?

 

[B-A-C]

Though I will admit confusion at the first part of this verse,

I have to agree with you here But sometimes other translations really do help.

(AMPC) [I assure you] by the pride which I have in you in [your fellowship and union with] Christ Jesus our Lord, that I die daily [I face death every day and die to self].
(AMPC+) [I assure you] by the pride which I have in you in [your N1fellowship and union with] Christ Jesus our Lord, that I die daily [I face death every day and die to self].
(ASV) I protest by that glorying in you, brethren, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
(CSB) I face death every day, as surely as I may boast about you, brothers and sisters, in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(ESV) I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!
(GNB) My friends, I face death every day! The pride I have in you, in our life in union with Christ Jesus our Lord, makes me declare this.
(GW) Brothers and sisters, I swear to you on my pride in you which Christ Jesus our Lord has given me: I face death every day.
(HCSB) I affirm by the pride in you that I have in Christ Jesus our Lord: I die every day!
(KJV) I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
(MKJV) Day by day I die, by your rejoicing, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(MSG) I look death in the face practically every day I live. Do you think I'd do this if I wasn't convinced of your resurrection and mine as guaranteed by the resurrected Messiah Jesus?
(NAS77) I protest, brethren, by the boasting in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
(NASB) I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
(NIrV) I die every day. I really mean that, brothers and sisters. Here is something you can be sure of. I take pride in what Christ Jesus our Lord has done for you through my work.
(NIV) I face death every day—yes, just as surely as I boast about you in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(NLT) For I swear, dear brothers and sisters, that I face death daily. This is as certain as my pride in what Christ Jesus our Lord has done in you.
(RV) I protest by that glorying in you, brethren, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Derail...

? Don't understand your reply! let me put this another way, you're a man , right?

 

[Born Again 2004]

Where does he say that?
Let us deal with the particulars in order to establish God's grace and mercy on earth now, shall we?

Romans 7
In particular, Romans 7:15 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

 

[At Peace]

I have to agree with you here But sometimes other translations really do help.

(AMPC) [I assure you] by the pride which I have in you in [your fellowship and union with] Christ Jesus our Lord, that I die daily [I face death every day and die to self].
(AMPC+) [I assure you] by the pride which I have in you in [your N1fellowship and union with] Christ Jesus our Lord, that I die daily [I face death every day and die to self].
(ASV) I protest by that glorying in you, brethren, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
(CSB) I face death every day, as surely as I may boast about you, brothers and sisters, in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(ESV) I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!
(GNB) My friends, I face death every day! The pride I have in you, in our life in union with Christ Jesus our Lord, makes me declare this.
(GW) Brothers and sisters, I swear to you on my pride in you which Christ Jesus our Lord has given me: I face death every day.
(HCSB) I affirm by the pride in you that I have in Christ Jesus our Lord: I die every day!
(KJV) I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
(MKJV) Day by day I die, by your rejoicing, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(MSG) I look death in the face practically every day I live. Do you think I'd do this if I wasn't convinced of your resurrection and mine as guaranteed by the resurrected Messiah Jesus?
(NAS77) I protest, brethren, by the boasting in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
(NASB) I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
(NIrV) I die every day. I really mean that, brothers and sisters. Here is something you can be sure of. I take pride in what Christ Jesus our Lord has done for you through my work.
(NIV) I face death every day—yes, just as surely as I boast about you in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(NLT) For I swear, dear brothers and sisters, that I face death daily. This is as certain as my pride in what Christ Jesus our Lord has done in you.
(RV) I protest by that glorying in you, brethren, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

I think I will wait for a revelation from God instead of using your kindly provided interpretations.
Thanks.

 

[At Peace]

? Don't understand your reply! let me put this another way, you're a man , right?

Yes, I am a man.

 

[At Peace]

Romans 7
In particular, Romans 7:15 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

The first few verses of Ro 7 clearly show that Paul is speaking of a former time. Verse 5..."For when we WERE in the flesh..."
The entire middle of Ro 7 is about Paul's former life as a Pharisee; trying to live the Mosaic Law, but failing. And again, a reference to the past in verse 18; (that is, in my flesh).
And the end, especially verse 23; "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to THE LAW OF SIN which is in my members."...points again to a former time. Because....
we read in Romans 8:2...."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from THE LAW OF SIN and death.
Why would Paul be subject to something he is free of?
If you could see the truth of Ro 7, and its proximity to Ro 6, which speaks of baptism and the death of the flesh, you would see that Paul is making the past-present transition, and Ro 8 continues on into the life walked in the Spirit.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Yes, I am a man.

O.K., so you are fully man and you never, not ever, for one second look at another woman and think how endowed she is or maybe, for split second, fantasize about her.

 

[Born Again 2004]

The first few verses of Ro 7 clearly show that Paul is speaking of a former time. Verse 5..."For when we WERE in the flesh..."
The entire middle of Ro 7 is about Paul's former life as a Pharisee; trying to live the Mosaic Law, but failing. And again, a reference to the past in verse 18; (that is, in my flesh).
And the end, especially verse 23; "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to THE LAW OF SIN which is in my members."...points again to a former time. Because....
we read in Romans 8:2...."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from THE LAW OF SIN and death.
Why would Paul be subject to something he is free of?
If you could see the truth of Ro 7, and its proximity to Ro 6, which speaks of baptism and the death of the flesh, you would see that Paul is making the past-present transition, and Ro 8 continues on into the life walked in the Spirit.

No Paul begins Romans 8 in conclusion of Romans 8....with what do we do about condemnation when we sin...Romans 8:1......but I am sure you must distort this truth to support your theology /narrative....there is no condemnation if we are in Christ...condemnation from what...condemnation / consequences of sin.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I think I will wait for a revelation from God instead of using your kindly provided interpretations.
Thanks.

God has given you a revelation, it is called the Bible....you should try reading it sometime!
You know, in this book, I think it describes you...as Luke Warm.... God says it is better to be cold than Luke Warm. Many a professed Atheists have come into TJ....I think they would be classified as cold!.....why is it, that with all the individuals hear at TJ that disagree with you...I see not one person to agree!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

O.K., so you are fully man and you never, not ever, for one second look at another woman and think how endowed she is or maybe, for split second, fantasize about her.

I know this is not addressed to me but I would like to answer this.

No Sir I do not.
If one catches my eye I right away turn my head and walk away. Lol found 20 dollar bill once looking the other way.

Scripture tells us to not let any sexual immorality be found in you. I won't even give a thought a chance. I worked hard and through Gods Grace I have not had to deal with that junk for many years.
Blessings

 

[Born Again 2004]

I know this is not addressed to me but I would like to answer this.

No Sir I do not.
If one catches my eye I right away turn my head and walk away. Lol found 20 dollar bill once looking the other way.

Scripture tells us to not let any sexual immorality be found in you. I won't even give a thought a chance. I worked hard and through Gods Grace I have not had to deal with that junk for many years.
Blessings

You are right, this was not addressed to you.
But, while we are at it, maybe I still can make a point.
"If one catches my eye" is how you put it. I would like to explore that. I don't care how fast you turned away ( and I applaud you for that...a true Christian doing his best) even for a second something caught your eye....Was the thought," she is pretty"...surely that's not an offense!? So you turned and what appears to be "right away. Turned away from what? Did you think, even, if it was for only a split second, that it was about something sexual?......How would Jesus respond. She
" caught your eye"...surely, if it were not a sinful thought you would have had nothing to turn away from, right?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

You are right, this was not addressed to you.
But, while we are at it, maybe I still can make a point.

I apologize if I offended you by replying. I just wanted to share we can overcome this.

If one catches my eye" is how you put it. I would like to explore that. I don't care how fast you turned away ( and I applaud you for that...a true Christian doing his best) even for a second something caught your eye....Was the thought," she is pretty"...surely that's not an offense!? So you turned and what appears to be "right away. Turned away from what. Did you think, even, if it was for only a split second, you thought about something sexual?......How would Jesus respond. She

Let's slow down here and not put the cart in front of the horse.

I said catches my eye.
Any movement around me catches my eye. In fact it has saved my life a few times.

Try this, I am walking down the side walk and some female steps out in front of me.
My Eye Catches that in the same way as it caught the guy running from the police.

If by any chance something further TRIES to get my attention and cause me to look - I simply do not. I move on and pray for her.

I don't give any room for the devil to work. he ain't got much to work with if you are praying for her and binding the strong holds.

You must understand we are not held accountable to any thought that comes onto our mind.

We are held accountable to what we do with them and how long we entertain the thought.

caught your eye"...surely, if it were not a sinful thought you would have had nothing to turn away from, right?

Not True !!
I know if I grab the hot pan off the fire I will get burned - I don't wait until I fill the burn to not hold on.

I don't wait until a sexual thought is present.
I simply AVOID that by CHOICE.

Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us

One must learn to not give any ground unto the enemy.

Blessings to you