Can not know the Lord without Repentance??

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I think your wrong on both positions
James 2:10

• One of the big hurdles that the Apostles faced, was the Synagogue Jews. They didn't care much for or understand Christianity and they insisted that they had laws of Moses and didn't need Jesus.
• God, through James, was telling the Orthodox Jew that, if they failed just one aspect of the law, they failed all the law and therefore needed a Savior.
• The same holds true today. That is why, through Jesus, we can rest in the finality of the cross and have life through the resurrection.
• That is also why Paul wrote Roman 8:1

How are you tying James 2:10
Romans 8:1
Mosaic Law
And man will always have some sin to deal with.

Blessings to you

 

[Born Again 2004]

How are you tying James 2:10
Romans 8:1
Mosaic Law
And man will always have some sin to deal with.

Blessings to you

• James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. Ah...this is about the Law...James even states so?!
• Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, Condemnation from what? From not being Holy, Righteous and Blameless.....same as sin. If you sin, there is no condemnation if you are in Christ!

Blessings back at you!!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

• James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. Ah...this is about the Law...James even states so?!
• Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, Condemnation from what? From not being Holy, Righteous and Blameless.....same as sin. If you sin, there is no condemnation if you are in Christ!

Blessings back at you!!

Thank you Sir,

 

[Born Again 2004]

Thank you Sir,

Your welcome!

 

[B-A-C]

I think your wrong on both positions

It's certainly possible

But now I'm really confused... why would you bring this verse up if it doesn't apply to us?

 

[Born Again 2004]

It's certainly possible

But now I'm really confused... why would you bring this verse up if it doesn't apply to us?

Sure, what verse?

 

[B-A-C]

Thank you kindly, you made my point.
James 2;10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

I think your wrong on both positions
James 2:10

• One of the big hurdles that the Apostles faced, was the Synagogue Jews. They didn't care much for or understand Christianity and they insisted that they had laws of Moses and didn't need Jesus.
• God, through James, was telling the Orthodox Jew that, if they failed just one aspect of the law, they failed all the law and therefore needed a Savior.
• The same holds true today. That is why, through Jesus, we can rest in the finality of the cross and have life through the resurrection.
• That is also why Paul wrote Roman 8:1

You seem to be saying this verse ( James 2:10; ) is only for the Jews. Ok... I'm not disagreeing with you here.
Just asking why you would bring it up here if you believe it doesn't apply to us.

 

[Born Again 2004]

You seem to be saying this verse ( James 2:10; ) is only for the Jews. Ok... I'm not disagreeing with you here.
Just asking why you would bring it up here if you believe it doesn't apply to us.

• It wasn't just for the Jews, it was addressed to the Jews.
• Where did I say it doesn't apply.

 

[B-A-C]

Where did I say it doesn't apply.

Sorry, maybe I didn't word the question very good. it's actually two questions I suppose.
Do you believe it doesn't apply to us?

If it does apply to us.. in what way do you think it does? What is it saying to you?

 

[Born Again 2004]

Do you believe it doesn't apply to us?

No, I believe it, as all the Bible, applies to us!

If it does apply to us.. in what what way do you think it does? What is it saying to you?

• God never changes, James verse would be true today!
• The law is holy, righteous, blameless, and perfect...Still!!....God found man wasn't, so he introduce Jesus and the New Covenant.
• Since God never changes, I don't see his rules of obedience and perfection changing any either. Perfection would be flawless or blameless.
• This logic (theology) can be applied to day...i.e. A person who says they are perfectly with out sin, ( what it is saying to me) then, for this to satisfy God, a person would have to be sinless 24/7, everyday, for the rest of their life.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Your welcome!

Ok but I am still not grasping this entirely because of scriptures such as

Romans 6:14
Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God's grace.


Romans 7:4,6
So, my dear brothers and sisters, this is the point: You died to the power of the law when you died with Christ. And now you are united with the one who was raised from the dead. As a result, we can produce a harvest of good deeds for God.

6. But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit.

Galatians 3:10-13 ,
But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, "Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God's Book of the Law."
So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life."
This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, "It is through obeying the law that a person has life."
24-25, 4:21, 5:1, 13

2 Cor. 3:7-18

I had thought James was simply saying if you live under the law and break one then you are as guilty of breaking them all.

Thank God we are not subject unto the law but Grace.

I had thought that this is why

Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

Was said.

If I am missing your point, I apologize.
Thank you for your time and Patience.
Blessings to you

 

[amadeus2]

Thank you kindly, you made my point.
James 2;10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.4

• All of us who are Christian, though God in use, we are sill human and in a fallen world and can not go with out sinning, in some form, 24 / 7, the rest of our life. I am not talking about the Nasty Five or Dirty Dozen, we are beyond that, but we all sin in ways we can't even understand. Look, this is just me but this is the way I look at it...sin is anything God isn't.
• The law, which James is referring to, is perfect and with out blemish. And it stands as a guide for us today. What God found was that the law , though holy, righteous and perfect, man was not. So, he created a New Covenant....enter Jesus, we all know the rest.
• In God's realm, sin is no different than the law, fail at it one time and you are a sinner, in need of a Savior.
• That's why Paul wrote Romans 8:1 !

Of course I still disagree! I believe there are some who have made it to the point where they sin no more prior to their physical death. You do not really understand my position and while you hold onto OSAS I don't believe that you can. I will not try to explain it to you further as only God gives increases. My only point conceded was that God looks at the heart rather than doctrines believed for final judgment.

Whether I have attained the point of sinlessness really matters not insofar of the truth of God's Word is concerned. I still believe that denying the possibility is not understanding God very well...

As to Rom 8:1 we certainly have a different idea of what it means be in Christ Jesus and walking after the Spirit and quenching the Spirit, but I also won't pursue that as I realize that it is probably a basic cause for our disagreement.

Give God the glory!

 

[At Peace]

No , I acknowledge truth...there were and are a many very good men that are good and have a good conscience but die unbelievers!!!

You in effect say that some unbelievers are "good".
I must disagree.
How can a man who rejects God be "good"?

 

[At Peace]

Thank you kindly, you made my point.
James 2;10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.4

• All of us who are Christian, though God in use, we are sill human and in a fallen world and can not go with out sinning, in some form, 24 / 7, the rest of our life. I am not talking about the Nasty Five or Dirty Dozen, we are beyond that, but we all sin in ways we can't even understand. Look, this is just me but this is the way I look at it...sin is anything God isn't.
• The law, which James is referring to, is perfect and with out blemish. And it stands as a guide for us today. What God found was that the law , though holy, righteous and perfect, man was not. So, he created a New Covenant....enter Jesus, we all know the rest.
• In God's realm, sin is no different than the law, fail at it one time and you are a sinner, in need of a Savior.
• That's why Paul wrote Romans 8:1 !

John wrote these words from Jesus..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:32-34)
We don't have to be servants of sin anymore.
We can, as Paul writes in Rom. 8:1, walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.

 

[KingJ]

Look, I don't think every-man struggles with this. I have no way of knowing that you do or don't, I am not saying that at all. I was in an attempt to make a point with @ At Peace who repeatedly says he is with out sin, then you ( its your right) chimed in. Since you took it on yourself to do that, I was simply addressing the question to you. A now @ B-A-C might have taken offense.

Personally, I think you hit the nail on the head with the choice of sin. Jesus chose it as an example for the same reason you did. None are exempt of it. Everyone knows they are guilty. It is a pretty clear cut example.

In fact I propose that the moment you raised the question, every person reading had the thought. Jesus did not state ''giving in'' to the thought is sin. He said, having the thought is sin. It is impossible for any human to not have the thought.

As they wrote ''I have not thought of a woman immorally'', they had to think of a woman immorally to write that. It is just the way our brain works. It is human 101.

 

[KingJ]

I agree with Wired4 and AtPeace on this one. You don't have to stare at a woman. You don't have to think lustful thoughts.
You really don't. I used to do this. But I really don't anymore.

If you don't then you are not in a war zone. It is God's will to put us with people overtaken with this and other sin. God wants us right there in the midst of sinners. Not to sin, but deal with thoughts, yes.

Example: If we look at the rebuking of the man who did incest in 1 Cor 5. Everyone applied their mind to the thought of incest in that moment. Then likely battled with the thought for the next day or two. As they were disgusted with it. A Christian position is the latter, always the latter. We are not a god that can say we do not even think it.

The point Jesus is making is not related to giving in to a thought, it is simply having the thought. Something completely impossible for any human, not to have.

You guys are just further stumbling ''Peace'' imho.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

You in effect say that some unbelievers are "good".
I must disagree.
How can a man who rejects God be "good"?

Simple. Deeds, life style, attitude, helping others.

 

[Born Again 2004]

• I now implore your patience in answering these. I surely don't don't have all the answers But someday we will see him face to face and we will.
• 1 Corinthians 13: 8-13 where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror;then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
• This verse confirms to me, that we aren't quite perfect yet,not until we die , with Jesus in us, and meet God "face to face", at which time we will know all.

Romans 6:14
Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God's grace.

• Paul said, he wouldn't have even know what sin was if it weren't for he law.
• God says the law is Holy, Righteous and Perfect. It hasn't gone anywhere, it still is the standard for man to live by but it never saved because man wasn't capable of following the law perfectly...all day long, 24/7. This would be God's standard because we are all going to his realm, which the law will be a way of existing. So, God ushered in salvation by Grace through Faith. The Law is sill the standard but salvation now comes by way of Christ. We now can rest in the finality of the cross and live because of the resurrection.

Romans 7:4,6
So, my dear brothers and sisters, this is the point: You died to the power of the law when you died with Christ. And now you are united with the one who was raised from the dead. As a result, we can produce a harvest of good deeds for God.

• The law is still in force but the requirement of fulfilling it perfectly was transferred to Christ, for us, by his death and resurrection.
• As a Christian, we died to the law ( requirements of) not that t has gone anywhere.

6. But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit.

• So, as the verse says: " we have been release from the law". We are no longer captive slaves to it. It was meant to reveal our sin, never for salvation. That is why, in those days, it had to be re-instated by the "Day of Atonement", where God sort-of re-set every thing...every year, for ever, until he ushered in the law of Grace through Jesus. It is notable to mention that the Bible says Jesus is our final Priest and un- like any Priest before him, he sat down after his work!

Galatians 3:10-13 ,
But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, "Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God's Book of the Law."
So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life."
This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, "It is through obeying the law that a person has life."
24-25, 4:21, 5:1, 13

• Simply explains the New Covenant!

2 Cor. 3:7-18

I had thought James was simply saying if you live under the law and break one then you are as guilty of breaking them all.

• No, he was saying the law will not save you, but Grace and Jesus will!

Thank God we are not subject unto the law but Grace.

• Yep

I had thought that this is why

Thank God we are not subject unto the law but Grace.

 

[At Peace]

Personally, I think you hit the nail on the head with the choice of sin. Jesus chose it as an example for the same reason you did. None are exempt of it. Everyone knows they are guilty. It is a pretty clear cut example.

In fact I propose that the moment you raised the question, every person reading had the thought. Jesus did not state ''giving in'' to the thought is sin. He said, having the thought is sin. It is impossible for any human to not have the thought.

As they wrote ''I have not thought of a woman immorally'', they had to think of a woman immorally to write that. It is just the way our brain works. It is human 101.

It is written..."Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." (Titus 1:15)
Why can't you see a difference between temptation and sin?

 

[At Peace]

Simple. Deeds, life style, attitude, helping others.

And disregard of God?