Catholicism

[dchena]

"...and the making and bowing to graven images are expressly forbidden in Deuteronly 4:16."

that's also in the 10 commandments.

Just like to add, though, while Catholicism as a manmade structure is not biblically based, there are many people from within the church who are called by God. If someone is Catholic, it does not mean that they are that structure, that they do not have a relationship with God, that they are ignorant, or anything else. It just means that at this point in time, they are part of the Catholic church.

The following is written by Mother Theresa, a Catholic, about Jesus:

Jesus is the Word made flesh.
Jesus is the Bread of Life.
Jesus is the Victim offered for our sins on the Cross.
Jesus is the Sacrifice offered at the Holy Mass
For the sins of the world and mine.
Jesus is the Word - to be spoken.
Jesus is the Truth - to be told.
Jesus is the Way - to be walked.
Jesus is the Light - to be lit.
Jesus is the Life - to be lived.
Jesus is the Love - to be loved.
Jesus is the Joy - to be shared.
Jesus is the Sacrifice - to be offered.
Jesus is the Peace - to be given.
Jesus is the BRead of Life - to be eaten.
Jesus is the Hungry - to be fed.
Jesus is the Thirsty - to be satiated.
Jesus is the Naked - to be clothed.
Jesus is the Homeless - to be taken in.
Jesus is the Sick - to be healed.
Jesus is the Lonely - to be loved.
Jesus is the Unwanted - to be wanted.
Jesus is the Leper - to wash his wounds.
Jesus is the Beggar - to give him a smile.
Jesus is the Drunkard - to listen to him.
Jesus is the Retarded - to protect him.
Jesus is the Little One - to embrace him.
Jesus is the Blind - to lead him.
Jesus is the Dumb - to speak for him.
Jesus is the Crippled - to walk with him.
Jesus is the Drug Addict - to befriend him.
Jesus is the Prostitute - to remove from danger and befriend.
Jesus is the Prisoner - to be visited.
Jesus is the Old - to be served.

To me-
Jesus is my God.
Jesus is my Spouse.
Jesus is my Life.
Jesus is my only Love.
Jesus is my All in All. Jesus is my Everything.

Jesus, I love with my whole heart, with my whole being. I have given Him all, even my sins, and He has espoused me to Himself in tenderness and love. Now and for life I am the spouse of my Crucified Spouse. Amen.

She wrote that in 1983. It is from a small book called, "Jesus is My All in All - Praying with the 'Saint of Calcutta'". She was maneuvering within the structure, but she understood. And she DID something about her love for the Messiah, a whole lot, which is a whole lot more than most of us here who are criticising Catholcism.

People, we have to be very careful about confusing people with the structures that are made by people. Or should I say, made by the enemy through people. No one is perfect. God loves us all. I get really saddened and frusterated when these sorts of conversations go on and on and they lack compassion, and good will towards our brothers and sisters who are 99% of the time doing the best they can, and all have room to grow.

Do your research. Make your choices. BUT LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR!!!!
Look at Paul. He persecuted Christians. But God loved him and saw in him all the good that he would be doing. It's not just about pointing out false doctrines, it's about LOVING GOD FIRST. AND ALSO OUR NEIGHBOR. It doesn't have to be a fight between people.

 

[ushalk]

"...and the making and bowing to graven images are expressly forbidden in Deuteronly 4:16."

that's also in the 10 commandments.

Just like to add, though, while Catholicism as a manmade structure is not biblically based, there are many people from within the church who are called by God. If someone is Catholic, it does not mean that they are that structure, that they do not have a relationship with God, that they are ignorant, or anything else. It just means that at this point in time, they are part of the Catholic church.

The following is written by Mother Theresa, a Catholic, about Jesus:

Jesus is the Word made flesh.
Jesus is the Bread of Life.
Jesus is the Victim offered for our sins on the Cross.
Jesus is the Sacrifice offered at the Holy Mass
For the sins of the world and mine.
Jesus is the Word - to be spoken.
Jesus is the Truth - to be told.
Jesus is the Way - to be walked.
Jesus is the Light - to be lit.
Jesus is the Life - to be lived.
Jesus is the Love - to be loved.
Jesus is the Joy - to be shared.
Jesus is the Sacrifice - to be offered.
Jesus is the Peace - to be given.
Jesus is the BRead of Life - to be eaten.
Jesus is the Hungry - to be fed.
Jesus is the Thirsty - to be satiated.
Jesus is the Naked - to be clothed.
Jesus is the Homeless - to be taken in.
Jesus is the Sick - to be healed.
Jesus is the Lonely - to be loved.
Jesus is the Unwanted - to be wanted.
Jesus is the Leper - to wash his wounds.
Jesus is the Beggar - to give him a smile.
Jesus is the Drunkard - to listen to him.
Jesus is the Retarded - to protect him.
Jesus is the Little One - to embrace him.
Jesus is the Blind - to lead him.
Jesus is the Dumb - to speak for him.
Jesus is the Crippled - to walk with him.
Jesus is the Drug Addict - to befriend him.
Jesus is the Prostitute - to remove from danger and befriend.
Jesus is the Prisoner - to be visited.
Jesus is the Old - to be served.

To me-
Jesus is my God.
Jesus is my Spouse.
Jesus is my Life.
Jesus is my only Love.
Jesus is my All in All. Jesus is my Everything.

Jesus, I love with my whole heart, with my whole being. I have given Him all, even my sins, and He has espoused me to Himself in tenderness and love. Now and for life I am the spouse of my Crucified Spouse. Amen.

She wrote that in 1983. It is from a small book called, "Jesus is My All in All - Praying with the 'Saint of Calcutta'". She was maneuvering within the structure, but she understood. And she DID something about her love for the Messiah, a whole lot, which is a whole lot more than most of us here who are criticising Catholcism.

People, we have to be very careful about confusing people with the structures that are made by people. Or should I say, made by the enemy through people. No one is perfect. God loves us all. I get really saddened and frusterated when these sorts of conversations go on and on and they lack compassion, and good will towards our brothers and sisters who are 99% of the time doing the best they can, and all have room to grow.

Do your research. Make your choices. BUT LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR!!!!
Look at Paul. He persecuted Christians. But God loved him and saw in him all the good that he would be doing. It's not just about pointing out false doctrines, it's about LOVING GOD FIRST. AND ALSO OUR NEIGHBOR. It doesn't have to be a fight between people.

i do not see this as criticizing the catholic church. the truth is the truth and the lie is the lie. the bottom line is.

1. we are not to pray to saints, the dead or marry. this is not in the bible.

2. we do not make images of any man nor woman to pray to or otherwise.

3. there are no denominations written of in the bible.

4. they were not the first christian church.

5. marry is not to be worshipped.

6. marry is not above god.

this is just a few of the falsehoods that are deadly and coming out of the catholic church. the bible states that we will know them by their fruits. i consider a part of the fruits to be the actions of many that come from this line of teaching. this is what i have seen from many that have grown up in a catholic church or they were raised in catholic schools.

1. they will lie through their teeth even if you catch them red handed.

2. they are manipulative.

3. unfaithful

4. adultress

5. about what man thinks of them and being popular.

6. will do whatever it takes in order to obtain riches fame and fortune.

7. try to tickle the ears of man kind.

 

[dchena]

Yeah, that's all fine. But what I'm saying is that in all our 'understanding' of the Bible and knowing what God's laws are, a lot of us forget the most important example and the greatest commandment - Love - Loving God above all else and loving our neighbor. Paul is very clear on judging others fates. that is not in our hands. And as soon as we judge, we become law breakers ourselves! People seem to fell they have the right to be mean, judgemental, and to assume that they have it all figured out above and beyond anyone who is Catholic. I'm not Catholic. I know it is not right. But I have no right to judge another or get on a high horse. Now is now, tomorrow has room to be different. God could cause any one of us to be blinded at any time, or to harden our hearst at anytme. We should all be greatful, and humble, and love our neighbor. And work really hard at expressing that love, even here on the forums. If we're not doing that, we're condemning ourselves and forgetting Jesus' great lesson of love and compassion.

That's all I'm saying. We have to watch ourselves, especially when we think we have it right and other's have it wrong. We are no better than anyone else. That's the bottom line. If we forget that, we loose our humility and the beauty of Jesus in our hearts.

And as far as seeing negative things from people who have come through the Catholic church, those kinds of behaviors are everywhere, not just within Catholicism. eople are people everywhere you go. All sorts, everywhere. We can't mix up what the enemy is doing with people who are lost. People have hope. With God all things are possible. nobody is necessarily doomed. If God wants to rescue someone, He will do it. He doesn't stay away from Catholics anymore than he stays away from the prisoner, or the drug addict, or the adulterer. People have hope. We don't know God's plan for them, so don't judge someone's fate. It's not our place. And it destroys us.

Isn't is said in the Bible that what comes out our mouths is what is in our hearts? Why can't we do our research, make our choices, let the Word out and around, with praise and love and humility in our hearts? We all need to make that our priority. And here on this forum, I see a lot of people feeling like they are smarter, better, more right than others and that gives them the right to express hostility in the guise of guidance. It's just an opportunity to feel right about something, and good, and build the self up. The manner in which many views are expressed here in this forum, especially on controversial topics such as this, is really sad and concerning. That's what I'm speaking to. Where is the evidence that we have the love of God living in our hearts? It will be in our words, in how we communicate. It will be in how we express ourselves to one another. Like Jesus taught: it's easy when things are all fine and you aren't challenged, but when it's difficult is when it really counts. That's what sets Christians apart. Everyone can love someone who agrees with them. I'd love to see us all rise up, and let Jesus free to live in our hearts, always. Some people are talking like Catholics themselves are the enemy. Well, so what. Even if you believe they are, that is no excuse to express anything but love. We need to disclipline ourselves. And this should really be the easiest place to do it. We have distance here on the forum. The only emotions we come face to face with here, are are own. Nobody's in our face and making it hard. If we're hostile here, it's purely because we choose to be.

 

[Fellowservant]

Random Tips: To love one's enemy does not mean to love the mire in which the pearl lies, but to love the pearl that lies in the mire.

That's the tip i got, i have love for my neighbor, but i also have discernment. If a man is in the mire i recognize it, and scripture proclaims it.

If the blind lead the blind, did not Christ say that they will both fall into a ditch? Is Christ unloving here? is Paul when he calls men who teach certain doctrines, the doctrines of demons wrong here?.

That is heavy words, why did Christ and the leaders of the early Church speak in this manner.


Are we judging their words as hate literature, are we better than them?


Is my words more offensive than Pauls? are they more offensive than the words of Christ? Even though most of what i posted wasn't my words, but theirs...


Like i said, you tell me...


The bible tells me to speak the truth with my neighbor, if i love him basically. Paul and Christ spoke the truth about these things, why can't we? Doesn't truth do more for them than lies? Has truth or the scriptures become our enemy because of fear.

Scripture and the spirit are our guide here, if we can't use it correctly and in love, we are going to miss the mark, as a teacher.

I also believe not all men should be teachers, as its a gift. Some men Paul said, preach the gospel out of contention, to add hardship too him, while others preach it correctly and in love and patients, either way he said the gospel is being preached.

When it comes to these things wisdom is greatly needed or the enemy can get the upper hand on us or others. So be careful here, Paul was warning the church, not the world about these doctrines.

God bless all

 

[dchena]

Paul was not offensive in any way. He was very careful to be gracious to the people he wrote his letters to. He was direct, but he was also respectful and loving and expressed sincere concern and deep love for those who he was speaking to. When I read his letters, deep love and concern, and a sense of responsibility is what I see in his words.

I never said anything about not speaking the truth, I'm pointing out that Jesus did so and Paul did so with incredible compassion and love. They were direct, and honest, but they were not hostile. If you want to talk to the Pope, and express some godly rage to him because he is their leader, do so. But everyday people doing the best they can, whether they are hard hearted or not, don't deserve that.

And, quite frankly, Jesus COMMANDED US to love our neighbor, and our enemy. We don't have the authority or wisdom to say that because Jesus was possibly exasperated with people at times, and was enraged at the Pharisees, etc. that that gives us the right to determine and discern who deserves from us what we think is the same as His discliplinning. We don't have that ability. We discern for ourselves. And speak with what is in our hearts, and hopefully that's love. Am I scripturally wrong?


You said, "That's the tip i got, i have love for my neighbor, but i also have discernment. If a man is in the mire i recognize it, and scripture proclaims it. "
Yeah, that might be true, but how you go about it with your brothers and sisters also matters. And it's clear, that we are commanded to to love. And if we want to be a leader, we are to become a servant and humble ourselves.

You also said, "Random Tips: To love one's enemy does not mean to love the mire in which the pearl lies, but to love the pearl that lies in the mire. "

So what do you actually mean by this? Your telling me exactly what I've saying. What is the pearl? Could it be the person that is lost in the mire? That means love him! It doesn't mean beat him to the ground with his mistakes. It doesn't mean lump him together with the mire he's lost in. It means make the distinction. Talk about Catholocism as a structure and point out the errors, but do so with respect and love for the person lost in it.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

They might not even be truly lost. They might be on their God-appointed path to salvation at a later date, gathering up knowledge to help other people find their way out. Only God knows. Sop we need to be kind and respectful and loving, to CHOOSE it consciously.

You also said, "When it comes to these things wisdom is greatly needed or the enemy can get the upper hand on us or others." - and what are the fruits of the Holy Spirit living in us and and our lives? I don't have my Bible with me, but I think everyones pretty much knows, and you probably do also, that the fruits of the Holy Spirit include self-control, love, patience, etc. So if you are expressing yourself in anger, judgement, impatience, hostility I think it is reasonable to say that those qualities that indicate connection and guidance with the Holy Spirit and said gifts, it's safe to say that they are not present. And would indicate that we/ you/ I should take a step back and regropup ourselves/yourself/myself to be in line with the desired qualities. Otherwise, WE are not being led by the Spirit, whcih means we are probably being led by the enemy. We really need to be careful and choose to express what we want to say from a place of love.

"Scripture and the spirit are our guide here, if we can't use it correctly and in love, we are going to miss the mark, as a teacher. " - I agree, although it applies to all of us, not just teachers.

 

[Coconut]

Paul was not offensive in any way...

BBE Gal 1:6 I am surprised that you are being so quickly turned away from him whose word came to you in the grace of Christ, to good news of a different sort;
Gal 1:7 Which is not another sort: only there are some who give you trouble, desiring to make changes in the good news of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, were to be a preacher to you of good news other than that which we have given you, let there be a curse on him.
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so say I now again, If any man is a preacher to you of any good news other than that which has been given to you, let there be a curse on him.
Gal 1:10 Am I now using arguments to men, or God? or is it my desire to give men pleasure? if I was still pleasing men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

curse - [an-ath'-em-ah] - a (religious) ban or (concretely) excommunicated


Please see http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/26735-any-other-name.html

 

[jiggyfly]

Paul was not offensive in any way. He was very careful to be gracious to the people he wrote his letters to. He was direct, but he was also respectful and loving and expressed sincere concern and deep love for those who he was speaking to. When I read his letters, deep love and concern, and a sense of responsibility is what I see in his words.

I never said anything about not speaking the truth, I'm pointing out that Jesus did so and Paul did so with incredible compassion and love. They were direct, and honest, but they were not hostile. If you want to talk to the Pope, and express some godly rage to him because he is their leader, do so. But everyday people doing the best they can, whether they are hard hearted or not, don't deserve that.

And, quite frankly, Jesus COMMANDED US to love our neighbor, and our enemy. We don't have the authority or wisdom to say that because Jesus was possibly exasperated with people at times, and was enraged at the Pharisees, etc. that that gives us the right to determine and discern who deserves from us what we think is the same as His discliplinning. We don't have that ability. We discern for ourselves. And speak with what is in our hearts, and hopefully that's love. Am I scripturally wrong?


You said, "That's the tip i got, i have love for my neighbor, but i also have discernment. If a man is in the mire i recognize it, and scripture proclaims it. "
Yeah, that might be true, but how you go about it with your brothers and sisters also matters. And it's clear, that we are commanded to to love. And if we want to be a leader, we are to become a servant and humble ourselves.

You also said, "Random Tips: To love one's enemy does not mean to love the mire in which the pearl lies, but to love the pearl that lies in the mire. "

So what do you actually mean by this? Your telling me exactly what I've saying. What is the pearl? Could it be the person that is lost in the mire? That means love him! It doesn't mean beat him to the ground with his mistakes. It doesn't mean lump him together with the mire he's lost in. It means make the distinction. Talk about Catholocism as a structure and point out the errors, but do so with respect and love for the person lost in it.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

They might not even be truly lost. They might be on their God-appointed path to salvation at a later date, gathering up knowledge to help other people find their way out. Only God knows. Sop we need to be kind and respectful and loving, to CHOOSE it consciously.

You also said, "When it comes to these things wisdom is greatly needed or the enemy can get the upper hand on us or others." - and what are the fruits of the Holy Spirit living in us and and our lives? I don't have my Bible with me, but I think everyones pretty much knows, and you probably do also, that the fruits of the Holy Spirit include self-control, love, patience, etc. So if you are expressing yourself in anger, judgement, impatience, hostility I think it is reasonable to say that those qualities that indicate connection and guidance with the Holy Spirit and said gifts, it's safe to say that they are not present. And would indicate that we/ you/ I should take a step back and regropup ourselves/yourself/myself to be in line with the desired qualities. Otherwise, WE are not being led by the Spirit, whcih means we are probably being led by the enemy. We really need to be careful and choose to express what we want to say from a place of love.

"Scripture and the spirit are our guide here, if we can't use it correctly and in love, we are going to miss the mark, as a teacher. " - I agree, although it applies to all of us, not just teachers.

I think you may want to go back and reread this thread and possibly reconsider some of your own comments.

 

[SAN]

All we should do is to pray for one another I have tried with a similar attitude with pointing the negatives of my catholic and muslim brothers & sisters but did not work the reason could be I was really not reflecting the light that the lord wanted me to be may be I felt self righteous by having more knowledge of the bible. I have settled to just share the gospel, sow the seed and pray for my brothers& sisters. I pray that the lord will help us to lead a righteous life remembering our lord words in Mat5:20.
The prayer of a righteous man is powerfull James 5:16.

 

[Fellowservant]

Paul was not offensive in any way. He was very careful to be gracious to the people he wrote his letters to. He was direct, but he was also respectful and loving and expressed sincere concern and deep love for those who he was speaking to. When I read his letters, deep love and concern, and a sense of responsibility is what I see in his words.

I never said anything about not speaking the truth, I'm pointing out that Jesus did so and Paul did so with incredible compassion and love. They were direct, and honest, but they were not hostile. If you want to talk to the Pope, and express some godly rage to him because he is their leader, do so. But everyday people doing the best they can, whether they are hard hearted or not, don't deserve that.

And, quite frankly, Jesus COMMANDED US to love our neighbor, and our enemy. We don't have the authority or wisdom to say that because Jesus was possibly exasperated with people at times, and was enraged at the Pharisees, etc. that that gives us the right to determine and discern who deserves from us what we think is the same as His discliplinning. We don't have that ability. We discern for ourselves. And speak with what is in our hearts, and hopefully that's love. Am I scripturally wrong?


You said, "That's the tip i got, i have love for my neighbor, but i also have discernment. If a man is in the mire i recognize it, and scripture proclaims it. "
Yeah, that might be true, but how you go about it with your brothers and sisters also matters. And it's clear, that we are commanded to to love. And if we want to be a leader, we are to become a servant and humble ourselves.

You also said, "Random Tips: To love one's enemy does not mean to love the mire in which the pearl lies, but to love the pearl that lies in the mire. "

So what do you actually mean by this? Your telling me exactly what I've saying. What is the pearl? Could it be the person that is lost in the mire? That means love him! It doesn't mean beat him to the ground with his mistakes. It doesn't mean lump him together with the mire he's lost in. It means make the distinction. Talk about Catholocism as a structure and point out the errors, but do so with respect and love for the person lost in it.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

They might not even be truly lost. They might be on their God-appointed path to salvation at a later date, gathering up knowledge to help other people find their way out. Only God knows. Sop we need to be kind and respectful and loving, to CHOOSE it consciously.

You also said, "When it comes to these things wisdom is greatly needed or the enemy can get the upper hand on us or others." - and what are the fruits of the Holy Spirit living in us and and our lives? I don't have my Bible with me, but I think everyones pretty much knows, and you probably do also, that the fruits of the Holy Spirit include self-control, love, patience, etc. So if you are expressing yourself in anger, judgement, impatience, hostility I think it is reasonable to say that those qualities that indicate connection and guidance with the Holy Spirit and said gifts, it's safe to say that they are not present. And would indicate that we/ you/ I should take a step back and regropup ourselves/yourself/myself to be in line with the desired qualities. Otherwise, WE are not being led by the Spirit, whcih means we are probably being led by the enemy. We really need to be careful and choose to express what we want to say from a place of love.

"Scripture and the spirit are our guide here, if we can't use it correctly and in love, we are going to miss the mark, as a teacher. " - I agree, although it applies to all of us, not just teachers.

Hi sister I see you are newly saved? you are right about Paul and his deep concern for the people, great patients and wisdom, and zeal. But sometimes it was zeal and revelation that drove Paul.

This is why he used such words to his breadren as guard the flock which God has given you, he judged one man and excommunicated him for his sin. But was merciful in his judgment.

Many many warnings to the church came from him from the spirit to the Church. But yes a great saint of God an apostle. And i agree there is to much zeal used in the wrong way on internet forums, but that's a give in.

But as far as the RCC and whether or not they have fallen from the faith in their teachings, we will have to agree to disagree. But you do have some good points here about how this should be done. Online ministry can be a hornets nest at times.

God bless: and keep that new found faith of yours...

 

[SpiritLedEd]

When it comes to these things wisdom is greatly needed or the enemy can get the upper hand on us or others. So be careful here, Paul was warning the church, not the world about these doctrines.

Your reference to Paul comes from his first letter to Timothy (1 Tim 1:3-4) at Ephesus and it seems to me that the the false teachings he referred to centered largely on the early spread of Gnosticism in Asia Minor. What's the connection between Gnosticism and the Catholic Church? Also, Paul spoke, in this citation, of myths and endless genealogies. How do you connect these to Catholic gteaching?

SLE

 

[Fellowservant]

Your reference to Paul comes from his first letter to Timothy (1 Tim 1:3-4) at Ephesus and it seems to me that the the false teachings he referred to centered largely on the early spread of Gnosticism in Asia Minor. What's the connection between Gnosticism and the Catholic Church? Also, Paul spoke, in this citation, of myths and endless genealogies. How do you connect these to Catholic gteaching?

SLE

I never used that scripture brother, i was using 1 Ti 4


1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,
1Ti 4:3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

And it goes on to say this at the end of that chapter...

1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

My hands are tied here in giving place for this, because if i do ill have to contradict Paul and the scripture as a whole. Sorry but its there, and not a soul in this world can remove it. This is a warning for the Church that these things were coming.

The reformers seen it and broth us out of it by God and his spirit. Giving place to false doctrines and letting them in the church with no warning is dangerous, a little leaven can leaven the whole lump. You yourself claim you disagree with them, so i mean you tell me. Should we cater to this or flee from it?

If the reformers gave us the opportunity to lead us out of deception, shouldn't we do the same for them? Only for Christ moving on the reformers to restore truth to us, we would likely still be taking communion for salvation, and remaining in this apostasy.

You like your wife brother? if you were still in this as a leader you wouldn't have one. And that can lead to many immoral acts, if that is not your gift from God. And we know that most of the immoral acts by priest came because of this doctrine. Paul and the spirit knew this was going to be a problem, even before it came to pass.

I mean Paul is right here, not wrong, so were the reformers, and that's why we are here now. The scripture says let God be true and every man a liar, no matter how nice he is. Our opinions on this are just that opinions, lean not to your own understanding is also a good scripture.

One of satans biggest deceptions is telling people that God did not say, but God did say it...

Don't get me wrong im not saying go on a rooftop and holler the RCC is teaching doctrines of demons, unless God tells you too. But Paul did warn the Church about this...


God bless

 

[dchena]

I stand by what I said. People are getting things mixed up.

The people that Paul was actually talking TO, he cared about, and he did not treat poorly. He considered them of pretty high regard, as evident in his opening salutations. even though they needed guidance. He cared very deeply and expressed that. Everyone here who posts in this forum is growing in their own walk with Jesus. People who come here do so because, generally, they want to learn. I have seen Catholics here trying to understand their place in Catholicism by comparing what they know of it with what is being said of it. I have seen people here working through their understandings by being honest and forward with what they were taught, only to be quickly criticized, treated rudely, and shut down before any real growth can happen.

Nobody here is the Pope. Nobody has made it their life mission to convert people to Catholicism. People who are interpreting scripture and using Paul and Jesus as examples to be rude and dismissive of people who are here to grow - in their own way, as we all do - are getting things mixed up. I believe it comes from a sense of pride, and self-justification. Paul edified those who he wrote to. Notice I am saying those he wrote TO. He took great care to ensure that his concern came across and to preserve the dignity of those who he was talking TO, even though they were succumbing the pressures of false teachings.

Everyone here is a lot like the people he was talking TO. We are growing in, and sometimes struggling to understand, our way. There is no excuse to be rude, dismissive, impatient, insulting, or any other negative quality to the people here who are our brothers and sisters in growth in Christ. None at all.

If you are interpreting scripture as giving you permission and encouragement to tear down your brothers and sisters, then you're mixed up. You are getting the enemy mixed up with people who are here to grow and find fellowship and understand Jesus. And I believe the base that it's stemming from is pride and self-righteousness in those who choose to do so.

My perspective is in no way catering to "give men pleasure", to please men rather than Christ, as was suggested in a post responding to me. Rather my perspective is from a place of pleasing God and obeying his great commandment to love.

Nobody here is the Pope. And nobody here has the wisdom and skill of Paul.

 

[dchena]

Don't know why it double posted.

 

[Fellowservant]

Sister dchena, like i said we will have to agree to disagree I see your concern about contention in the church about this, but sometimes contention comes because of truth. But it can be dwelt with as God leads...

God bless sister but you say in your profile you are a new christian, see the scriptures on a novice taking authority in the Church. 1Ti 3:6

That's where pride can come from for certain, so much so that you are rebuking elders in here, and basically saying they don't know what their talking about and are unloving to their neighbors. To some that may be true, but im not going to put myself in another mans shoes in here. Or be a partaker of his sins.

You say some are getting up on a high horse, what horse are you on if your gong to rebuke elders about plain doctrinal scriptures. Sorry i know your new to the faith, but your not speaking like you should.

Perhaps some here are on a high horse, but what i said was not in a saddle, i used plain scripture and concern about false teachers. I see no offense in this, unless the scriptures are an offense to you.

You need to do what Paul said for now, submit yourself to them that have the rule over you. And that would be the elders of the Church, if their doctrines are sound. As new born babes desire the sincere milk of the word, so that you may grow by it. 1Pe 2:2

And im well aware that Paul is not here, but the gifts of the spirit are for the saints, not just Paul. 1Co 12:28 Like i said enjoy that new found faith, seek truth about this and wisdom. Love rejoices in the truth...

The problem with online forums is that if i was behind a pulpit every one in my congregation would saying amen to sound doctrine. Online ministry is a whole new ball game, and full of different beliefs and denominations. Also provoking one another to love and good works doesn't mean we should throw out the warnings of false teachers, and false prophets, that just contradicts all of scripture. Hope you see what i mean...


God bless sister

 

[dchena]

This is my last post on this no matter who or how other responses come in. It's going nowhere.

Just because I'm new, does not mean I can't understand scripture and be lead by the Spirit. And just because someone has been reading the Bible everyday for 20 years, doesn't mean they have been changed by it and truly understand it. I may have put more heart and soul into the Word in the last 6 or 7 months than many have put into it in years. And been more willing to accept Christ's leadership and change accordingly than many people who just know it all up in their heads.

You've been very kind with me, I appreciate that. And we can agree to disagree. But if you see me as contradicting scripture, you do not understand what I'm saying. Plain and simple.

I still stand by what I have said.

 

[Chad]

Just because I'm new, does not mean I can't understand scripture and be lead by the Spirit

GOD has the final say. Not you nor I. GOD says this very clearly in the Word which you boast to know so much of. You boast so much in your last post alone, its contradicting to your many claims to love one another. You come to assumptions and judgment about others and claim so much about yourself. Pride. So your point about love is mute then. You correct everyone here (elders) as if you have the final say. You're far from it.

1 Timothy 3

Qualifications for Overseers

<sup id="en-ESV-29716" class="versenum" value="1">1</sup>The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. <sup id="en-ESV-29717" class="versenum" value="2">2</sup>Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, <sup id="en-ESV-29718" class="versenum" value="3">3</sup>not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. <sup id="en-ESV-29719" class="versenum" value="4">4</sup>He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, <sup id="en-ESV-29720" class="versenum" value="5">5</sup>for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church? <sup id="en-ESV-29721" class="versenum" value="6">6</sup>He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. <sup id="en-ESV-29722" class="versenum" value="7">7</sup>Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.


To love one another regardless of their belief does not mean to refrain from correcting them and calling them out of their deceived beliefs and into Jesus Christ. With love comes risk. If you can't do that, than you're just a hater. Not a lover.

 

[Coconut]

Tell me please, who is it that loves his neighbor more, the man, who even tho faltering and floundering, attempts to help his neighbor out of the ditch - or the man who walks on by, because any acknowledgment of his part that his neighbor is in the ditch, may offend his neighbors pride.

"And who is my neighbor?"


Luke 6:39 Jesus also told them a parable: "One blind person can't lead another blind person, can he? Both will fall into a ditch, won't they?
A disciple is not better than his teacher. But everyone who is fully-trained will be like his teacher."

Luke 10:29 But the man wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

After careful consideration, Jesus replied, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho when he fell into the hands of bandits. They stripped him, beat him, and went away, leaving him half dead.
By chance, a priest was traveling along that road. When he saw the man, he went by on the other side. Similarly, a Levite came to that place. When he saw the man, he also went by on the other side.
But as he was traveling along, a Samaritan came across the man. When the Samaritan saw him, he was moved with compassion.
He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, 'Take good care of him. If you spend more than that, I'll repay you when I come back.' "Of these three men, who do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the bandits?" He said, "The one who showed mercy to him." Jesus told him, "Go and do what he did."

John 9:39 Then Jesus said, "I have come into this world for judgment, so that those who are blind may see, and those who see may become blind." Some of the Pharisees who were near him overheard this and said to him, "We aren't blind, too, are we?" Jesus told them, "If you were blind, you would not have any sin. But now that you insist, 'We see,' your sin remains."

Peter 2:6 This is why it says in Scripture: "Look! I am laying a chosen and precious cornerstone in Zion. The one who believes in him will never be ashamed." Therefore he is precious to you who believe, but to those who do not believe, "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone, a stone they stumble over and a rock they trip on." They keep on stumbling because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

Jesus said I AM THE ROCK!

The man who walks on by, soon finds himself in a ditch of his own making, for he has forgotten, that love that isnt anchored in truth, is no love at all, but merely another manifestation of pride. It must also be true that love that isnt anchored in Christ (the only anchor that is secure) and attempts to use some leverage besides Christ as an anchor to help a man out of a ditch is not love either, its just another lie men tells themselves because of their pride. Those who attempt to use something for a leverage to help a man out of a ditch besides this rock, will soon find they have braced themselves against a dead and dried up stump, and the man who thinks he stands falls, and is neither able to help himself or the one in the ditch.

The Roman religious institution, and every branch and offshoot from it, is a ditch, and every man or woman who has gone the way of catholicism is in the ditch. The teaching of Christ, who is Himself the way the truth and the life leaves no room for doubt about that. (see the Word)

The question is, what will those who hear His Word choose to do about it? Some speak of reformation within the ditch. Say again? You think the ditch can be made the way to God? It will never be. A ditch is only good for sinking a man in muck and mire and hindering his progress. God already made the Way to Himself, there is no other road. Others say we are only halfway in the ditch, we have one foot on the Rock. Now why would anyone one choose to have one foot on the Rock and one in the ditch? You see the Rock, but will not fully commit to standing only on the Rock? You would have one foot on His doorstep, and one in the way of mans religion? How is that any better than the thief who is attempting to climb over the wall instead of entering through the door?

John 10:1 "Truly, truly I tell you, the person who does not enter the sheepfold through the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a bandit. The one who enters through the gate is the shepherd of the sheep."

John 10:7 So again Jesus said, "Truly, truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep.
All who came before me are thieves and bandits, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the gate. If anyone enters through me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture."

1Ti 4:16 Pay close attention to your life and your teaching. Persevere in these things, for if you do this, you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.


*1Ti 6:3 If anyone teaches false doctrine and refuses to agree with the healthy words of our Lord Jesus Christ and godly teaching, he is a conceited [proud] person and does not understand anything. He has an unhealthy craving for arguments and debates. This produces jealousy, rivalry, slander, evil suspicions, and incessant conflict between people who are depraved in mind and deprived of truth.

1Ti 6:20 Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you. Avoid the pointless discussions and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge. Although some claim to have it, they have abandoned the faith. May grace be with all of you!

2Co 3:12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we speak with great boldness, not like Moses, who kept covering his face with a veil to keep the people of Israel from gazing at the end of what was fading away. However, their minds were hardened, for to this day the same veil is still there when they read the old covenant. Only in union with Christ is that veil removed. Yet even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Lord's Spirit is, there is freedom.

 

[jennie549]

Well, I was going to respond earlier, but I also wanted to read what everyone else was saying before I responded.
I was raised in the Catholic Church and went through First Communion, First Penance, Confirmation...(I think I might have missed a few, but those are the ones I can remember) as well as being baptized as a infant into the Catholic Church. I never really knew or understood what exactly I was going through or what I was doing. It was just what I was told to do and so I did it. I now see that Jesus is the way to life and freedom. I have been saved and I have started going to a different church for about 2 years now and I am so happy with the peope that are in my life and the people that are speaking positive things into my life. I have seen the wonderful things that can be done in people's lives and I am only expecting more great things to come out of my life and my existance on this earth. I am putting my faith and trust in Jesus Christ who is the one who took me for who I was and saved me and forgave me at the cross.

 

[ushalk]

Well, I was going to respond earlier, but I also wanted to read what everyone else was saying before I responded.
I was raised in the Catholic Church and went through First Communion, First Penance, Confirmation...(I think I might have missed a few, but those are the ones I can remember) as well as being baptized as a infant into the Catholic Church. I never really knew or understood what exactly I was going through or what I was doing. It was just what I was told to do and so I did it. I now see that Jesus is the way to life and freedom. I have been saved and I have started going to a different church for about 2 years now and I am so happy with the peope that are in my life and the people that are speaking positive things into my life. I have seen the wonderful things that can be done in people's lives and I am only expecting more great things to come out of my life and my existance on this earth. I am putting my faith and trust in Jesus Christ who is the one who took me for who I was and saved me and forgave me at the cross.

what an awesome testimony jenn. ya know it is hard to realise that we are not saved by our own good deeds or works. we are often told that we need to be baptized into a church or we need to do this or do that. the truth of all of this though is we are baptized into christ Romans 6:1-5 and raised in his ressurection. knowing without either one we have no hope of life but only death.

i am very thankful that the lord has put it on your heart to share such a great testimony. if not for christs blood we have no cleansing. what a mighty lord we do serve that we spit in face and he sits and waits for us to call upon him so that he can save us and heal us.

 

[Jonah2005bt]

Hi Coconut, I like your post.

Luke 10:29 But the man wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

After careful consideration, Jesus replied, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho when he fell into the hands of bandits. They stripped him, beat him, and went away, leaving him half dead.
By chance, a priest was traveling along that road. When he saw the man, he went by on the other side. Similarly, a Levite came to that place. When he saw the man, he also went by on the other side.
But as he was traveling along, a Samaritan came across the man. When the Samaritan saw him, he was moved with compassion.
He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, 'Take good care of him. If you spend more than that, I'll repay you when I come back.' "Of these three men, who do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the bandits?" He said, "The one who showed mercy to him." Jesus told him, "Go and do what he did."

In other words, we should treat everyone, in cluding our enemies, as we ourselves would want to be treated; with Love, Care, Kindness and Respect. Right?

And I think Matthew 5:44-48, pretty much says that, too.

Others say we are only halfway in the ditch, we have one foot on the Rock. Now why would anyone one choose to have one foot on the Rock and one in the ditch? You see the Rock, but will not fully commit to standing only on the Rock? You would have one foot on His doorstep, and one in the way of mans religion? How is that any better than the thief who is attempting to climb over the wall instead of entering through the door?

Are you saying, we need to trust completly in GOD & Christ Jesus, so much, that we should be living by His Teachings?

By, not just loving Him, but taking GOD'S WORD, {who happens to be Jesus Christ}, completly serieous?

Which reminds me of another Scripture, John 14:15-24.